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A790
01-15-2005, 01:24 PM
I am thinking of picking up an earlier style civic once my SiR is gone. I was thinking 88-91 CRX (if I can get my hands on a nice one), or a 92-95 hatch.

What motor would be best to boost? I was thinking a ZC would be decent to boost, but I'm not entirely sure. I've ruled out the B16 because of the expense and the compression.

Superesc
01-15-2005, 01:26 PM
B18B. Might be a bit tight on the EF but EG should leave you a bit more space.

A790
01-15-2005, 01:31 PM
Would I run into compressiosn issues with the B18B?

Superesc
01-15-2005, 01:41 PM
B18B are 9.2:1 cr . Pretty low for a honda motor I say.

7thgenvic
01-15-2005, 01:49 PM
why worry about boosting then! why not redo the internals and raise the compression to run around a 11.3:1! now that would be a nice jump!
and don't go SOC(single overhead)
ZC is a cheap fix tho!

A790
01-15-2005, 02:04 PM
The problem is that I want a CRX, but I also want a turbo.

Put two and two together...

I see a lot of guys running turbo'd CRX', I just want to know which motor is going to respond the best to boost.

Aleks
01-15-2005, 02:25 PM
B18B, or B20. These motors boosted give mad torque :burnout: they are cheap, low compression and lots of guys love them for those reasons.

Deetz
01-15-2005, 02:30 PM
To install a 1st gen B16 with 10.2:1 compression is big deal to turbo. I have dyno sheets of that engine running 7 psi on a T3 making 260 hp at the wheels.

The B18A/B or even B20 are also good, but don't have as good parts on them such as water pump, oil pump, oil cooler, and piston lubercation/cooling.

Scat
01-15-2005, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Aleks
B18B, or B20. These motors boosted give mad torque :burnout: they are cheap, low compression and lots of guys love them for those reasons.


:werd: Those are for sure your best options

A790
01-15-2005, 02:50 PM
What would I be looking at in terms of cash to put in a B18 or B20 and then boost them (relaibly)?

Scat
01-15-2005, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by A790
What would I be looking at in terms of cash to put in a B18 or B20 and then boost them (relaibly)?

If your happy with running fairly low boost you can stick with stock internals and still be quite reliable. You should look into injectors and some ecu tuning though. Just find someone that is willing to make you an exhaust maifold and weld all your piping, and then find a suitable second hand turbo and intercooler. That is if your looking to keep the project on a decently low budget.

white rice
01-18-2005, 11:06 PM
okay i have a crx and i put in a b18a and i built a turbo for it as well and ther is lots of room for it you just need to use your head when buiding the thing.

b20 as thin piston sleeves so i say no boost for that motor, and it has a pretty mad r/s ratio.

youngbex
01-19-2005, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by Aleks
B18B, or B20. These motors boosted give mad

torque :burnout: they are cheap, low compression and lots of guys love them for those reasons.


:burnout: :D :werd:

Promart
01-20-2005, 12:37 AM
so why not go b18c1 and boost off that motor?

Aleks
01-20-2005, 08:25 AM
You can and it will give higher power given similar setups. The thing is it's a lot more expensive to buy that motor. It's all about how much you want to spend.

A790
01-20-2005, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Promart
so why not go b18c1 and boost off that motor?

Mucho dinero!

I'm thinking that the best candidate is a B18a, yes?

89coupe
01-31-2005, 02:13 PM
I've got a friend who has a B20 and a B16 for sale. He just finished doing a Dart B20 conversion on his car and has two other blocks that are for sale now.

He goes by turbosir on my boards and I think coolsir on these boards.

buh_buh
01-31-2005, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Deetz@CustomAuto
I have dyno sheets of that engine running 7 psi on a T3 making 260 hp at the wheels.
I'm gonna have to call :bullshit: on that.
I don't think a T3 is even capable of making 260whp let alone at 7psi. I've seen b16s make less than that with bigger turbos at higher boost levels.

rage2
01-31-2005, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by buh_buh
I'm gonna have to call :bullshit: on that.
I don't think a T3 is even capable of making 260whp let alone at 7psi. I've seen b16s make less than that with bigger turbos at higher boost levels.
T3 60 trim can do 260whp fine. 7psi is possible, remember, the b16 can rev...

buh_buh
01-31-2005, 02:45 PM
yes I'm aware a Super 60 T3 can do 260whp, but the 7psi part is what I don't believe. Just wanted to clarify.

89coupe
01-31-2005, 02:59 PM
What do you guys think a Dart B20 big bore 84.5mm vtec block with a B16 vtec head do with 9:1 compression on 10lbs boost using a Td05 EVO 3 turbo make for HP? Just curious?

legendboy
01-31-2005, 03:08 PM
^ 240whp 220wtq

I hope your buddy decides to use a better turbo. Be a shame to waste that motor on that turbo :cry:

Thoes are mustang dyno estimates btw

89coupe
01-31-2005, 03:14 PM
Geez, I was expecting a lot more then that. On his old setup (stock sir motor b16) he was around 215whp, rough calculation. This is the Evo 16G biggest turbo we are talking about. Rated for 390hp.


Originally posted by legendboy
^ 240whp 220wtq

I hope your buddy decides to use a better turbo. Be a shame to waste that motor on that turbo :cry:

Thoes are mustang dyno estimates btw

Aleks
01-31-2005, 03:22 PM
Dont forget he's talking mustang dyno numbers. what dyno was the 215 whp number recorded? Anyways 240 whp on a mustang is about 270 whp on dynojet in calgary anyway. Any pics of this Dart motor?

89coupe
01-31-2005, 03:38 PM
It wasn't on a dyno, this is just an estimate based on 1/4 mile times and the weight of the vehicle including passenger.

So its not 100% accurate but a safe/conservative estimate IMO. I understand the difference between a Mustang Dyno and a Dynojet.

I figured it would be closer to 300whp but maybe I'm out to lunch. :dunno:


Originally posted by Aleks
Dont forget he's talking mustang dyno numbers. what dyno was the 215 whp number recorded? Anyways 240 whp on a mustang is about 270 whp on dynojet in calgary anyway. Any pics of this Dart motor?

Primer_Drift
01-31-2005, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by rage2

T3 60 trim can do 260whp fine. 7psi is possible, remember, the b16 can rev...
260whp at what rpm? was boost starting to drop off?

Dirty_SOHC
01-31-2005, 05:02 PM
Hey Rage is this the super sixty T3 or a sixty trim T3?

rage2
01-31-2005, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Dirty_SOHC
Hey Rage is this s super sixty T3 or a sixty tim T3?
both support it fine (based on compressor maps).

buh_buh
01-31-2005, 05:28 PM
pfft he hasn't actually done it, this is just based on his calculations and "educated guessing" :drama:

89coupe
01-31-2005, 05:47 PM
Its called using real numbers and real times. You can get very close estimates. I've used these calculations on my own car and the results were almost identical.

Try it and see for yourself http://www.prestage.com/community/Car+Math/ET+and+Horsepower+Calculators/HP+from+MPH+and+Weight/default.aspx

http://www.prestage.com/community/Car+Math/ET+and+Horsepower+Calculators/Calculate+ET+and+MPH+using+HP+and+Weight+/default.aspx

My car was within 15hp (less then what I really dynoed) based on the mph to weight ratio and 1mph difference off on the hp to weight ratio.

I was just curious to hear opinions based on experience, not guys who read this or that on the internet. ;)




Originally posted by buh_buh
pfft he hasn't actually done it, this is just based on his calculations and "educated guessing" :drama:

buh_buh
01-31-2005, 06:05 PM
yeah, I know. I was just bugging rage because he is always all knowing haha.

Wow that calculator actually guessed my exact hp. But it also said I should be running 12.5:rofl:

Dirty_SOHC
01-31-2005, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by buh_buh
yeah, I know. I was just bugging rage because he is always all knowing haha.

Wow that calculator actually guessed my exact hp. But it also said I should be running 12.5:rofl:

It guess my Hp dead on as well and also my trap speed right down to decimal. (100.41). But it was off on the ET. It says I should do 13.5 lol

89coupe
01-31-2005, 06:36 PM
ET will always be off because there are way to many factors to account for.


Originally posted by buh_buh
yeah, I know. I was just bugging rage because he is always all knowing haha.

Wow that calculator actually guessed my exact hp. But it also said I should be running 12.5:rofl:

buh_buh
01-31-2005, 07:32 PM
well the ET is also calculated using rwhp, so the launch will definately be faster using the calculator. But my mph and hp were both exactly dead on. Good link.:thumbsup:

awdterror
02-03-2005, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by white rice
b20 as thin piston sleeves so i say no boost for that motor, and it has a pretty mad r/s ratio.

B18B and B20B's use the same cranks and rods, intelligence OWNS you!

I'd slap a B18B in there with ARP's all around, some DSM 450's, uberdata, a T3/TO4E 57 trim (stage 3 exhaust wheel and a .48 or .63 housing, i'd personally run the .49) and a walbro 255 and have some fun with it.

And for the record, 10.2:1 compression on B16's is not a problem with turbos. With 93/94 octane gas like you lucky hojo's get down in Calgary it is entirely possible to run 15-16 pounds of boost on a build 10:1 motor, and a good tune of course.

89coupe
02-04-2005, 12:57 PM
When you say 'build' I'm assuming you mean 'built' and by built do you mean sleeved, forged pistons and what not? Cause without that I highly doubt a Honda motor would handle 15-16lbs of boost on pump gas for very long.


Originally posted by awdterror


B18B and B20B's use the same cranks and rods, intelligence OWNS you!

I'd slap a B18B in there with ARP's all around, some DSM 450's, uberdata, a T3/TO4E 57 trim (stage 3 exhaust wheel and a .48 or .63 housing, i'd personally run the .49) and a walbro 255 and have some fun with it.

And for the record, 10.2:1 compression on B16's is not a problem with turbos. With 93/94 octane gas like you lucky hojo's get down in Calgary it is entirely possible to run 15-16 pounds of boost on a build 10:1 motor, and a good tune of course.

rage2
02-04-2005, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by white rice
b20 as thin piston sleeves so i say no boost for that motor, and it has a pretty mad r/s ratio.
r/s ratio doesn't mean much unless you're planning on running 10,000rpm. Or you're a ricer reading too much H-T.

93B20
01-15-2007, 12:15 PM
i got a 93 dx coupe with b20b block and 2000 si b16 vtec head , both fully built right now with a gsr tranny, im running 12:5:1 compression on uber data tune and im at 320whp, i have another b16 vtec head already built and i bought a dart block im curious to see what people say about the compression i should run for a turbo setup im looking to push over 20 psi my friends has a similar setp to wjat im building but hes psushing close to 30 psi and almost at 600whp, im just not sure of what sompression to run

cressida_pimpin
01-15-2007, 12:22 PM
I was once in the same boast as you. I went with a b18b at 7psi and have no complaints

93B20
01-15-2007, 12:32 PM
yeah i like the b20 with the b16 head for my all motor setup, i rana 13.2 in the 1/4 adn i was thinking spray but i decided boost adn looking for low 11's

cressida_pimpin
01-15-2007, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by 93B20
yeah i like the b20 with the b16 head for my all motor setup, i rana 13.2 in the 1/4 adn i was thinking spray but i decided boost adn looking for low 11's

13.2 +1.5 (elevation adjustment)= 14.7

Not bad for an all motor setup. Boost will almost always win though

93B20
01-15-2007, 12:52 PM
y u adding elevation adjustment?

mo_money2supe
01-15-2007, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by 93B20
y u adding elevation adjustment?

Probably 'cause 98%+ of the members on here are not at sea level, and are mostly from Calgary, Alberta, Canada.

Nice setup though. Care to share what internals you built your motor with?

rc2002
01-15-2007, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by A790
I am thinking of picking up an earlier style civic once my SiR is gone. I was thinking 88-91 CRX (if I can get my hands on a nice one), or a 92-95 hatch.

What motor would be best to boost? I was thinking a ZC would be decent to boost, but I'm not entirely sure. I've ruled out the B16 because of the expense and the compression.

EF = boosted D series
EG = boosted B series

End of discussion. Ask anyone with a swapped B series EF to take you for a spin in their car. B series + EF = Suck.

Turbo D-series is the way to go. Cheap replacement engines, OEM ride quality, much more engine bay clearance...

93B20
01-15-2007, 05:04 PM
2000 b16 head
rocket motorsports valve train
M22 RM cams and gears
skunk 2 intake manifold
hondata intake manifold gasket
rc 310 injectors
gsr fuel rail with regulator
usdm type R header
65mm edelbrock throttle body

B20B block
weisco 12.5:1 pistons
eagle rods

gsr tranny no grinds mint
exedy 3 puck stage 2 clutch
prodenza light weight flywheel

also has 2 1/2 exhust piping
futosubo axle back
universal testpipe

Brembo brakes all around
rear disc conversion
spoon replica mirrors c/f
tinted corners
50/50 tails black and red
15's wheels black with polished lip
h&r race springs
stock lip
tinted windows 20%

interior:

nrg quick release steering wheel
skunk 2 short shifter
skunk 2 shift knob
stock cloth seats
center console armrest
pioneer head unit
type R shift boot


possibly looking to sell the car and build my turbo motor to put in a bubble im asking 3000

Darkane
01-15-2007, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by 93B20
2000 b16 head
rocket motorsports valve train
M22 RM cams and gears
skunk 2 intake manifold
hondata intake manifold gasket
rc 310 injectors
gsr fuel rail with regulator
usdm type R header
65mm edelbrock throttle body

B20B block
weisco 12.5:1 pistons
eagle rods

gsr tranny no grinds mint
exedy 3 puck stage 2 clutch
prodenza light weight flywheel

also has 2 1/2 exhust piping
futosubo axle back
universal testpipe

Brembo brakes all around
rear disc conversion
spoon replica mirrors c/f
tinted corners
50/50 tails black and red
15's wheels black with polished lip
h&r race springs
stock lip
tinted windows 20%

interior:

nrg quick release steering wheel
skunk 2 short shifter
skunk 2 shift knob
stock cloth seats
center console armrest
pioneer head unit
type R shift boot


possibly looking to sell the car and build my turbo motor to put in a bubble im asking 3000

LOL 320WHP, get over yourself. Im saying 230whp MAX with that setup. I see no headwork and no header.

What MPH did you run with a 13.2 run?

EDIT: ITR header.. you'll be lucky making 215WHP.

B20EF
01-15-2007, 06:04 PM
Originally posted by richardchan2002


EF = boosted D series
EG = boosted B series

End of discussion. Ask anyone with a swapped B series EF to take you for a spin in their car. B series + EF = Suck.

Turbo D-series is the way to go. Cheap replacement engines, OEM ride quality, much more engine bay clearance...

I'm curious why you say that, I loved my b20 in my ef, it was actually way more fun than my current b swap into an ek. I personally found the torque was really fun.

Did you really not enjoy your b16b?

93B20
01-15-2007, 06:06 PM
get over my self, im pushing 320 whp. ill take most the turbo cars thatll pull up to me,if i had 230 thered be no way that id be raping 350zs with 3gs worth of bolt ons

cressida_pimpin
01-15-2007, 06:12 PM
POST DYNO CHARTS

93B20
01-15-2007, 06:20 PM
gotta scan them then ill post them tomorrow

Darkane
01-15-2007, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by 93B20
get over my self, im pushing 320 whp. ill take most the turbo cars thatll pull up to me,if i had 230 thered be no way that id be raping 350zs with 3gs worth of bolt ons

LOL, just because we're in Canada, doesn't mean we dont know Shit about NA hondas man. You DONT have 320, and Yeah we can tell if the dyno is of a different motor. FYI a 230WHP honda will ANNIHILATE a 350Z with bolt ons. a sub 2000pound honda with that much power is good for 12.5 with slicks at Sea level. Im awating your graphs.

rc2002
01-15-2007, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by B20EF


I'm curious why you say that, I loved my b20 in my ef, it was actually way more fun than my current b swap into an ek. I personally found the torque was really fun.

Did you really not enjoy your b16b?

B-series require aftermarket mounts to fit into an EF. The softest eurethane mounts still rattle the car like crazy. The motor barely fits in there too leaving you little room to work with. That chassis was meant to hold a D, not a B. The exhaust was hella loud too. Even with resonators and catalytics converters. I would never do a B into an EF again.

The B16B felt like a race car engine. LOL. With the Rage2 tune I sold the car with, the car ran high 13's in the 1/4. It was a great power to weight ratio, but the ride quality was terrible.

93B20
01-16-2007, 12:28 AM
i never said you didnt know what your talking about, and my coupe is just a little under 2400 pounds adn i ran my friend in his 350 track which is a lil over 2700 pounds and hes putting 300 to the wheels, theres no way i could take him with 230, and 230 with slicks wont run a 12.5i know people with over 3 with slicks that run that time, im running street tires, never ran it with radials or slicks

gpomp
01-16-2007, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by 93B20
get over my self, im pushing 320 whp. ill take most the turbo cars thatll pull up to me,if i had 230 thered be no way that id be raping 350zs with 3gs worth of bolt ons
320 whp with 310cc injectors? what's your fuel pressure... 300 psi?

Ekliptix
01-16-2007, 12:52 AM
I can't wait to see this non-excel dyno graph.

DALLEN
01-16-2007, 01:30 AM
Originally posted by richardchan2002


EF = boosted D series
EG = boosted B series

End of discussion. Ask anyone with a swapped B series EF to take you for a spin in their car. B series + EF = Suck.

Turbo D-series is the way to go. Cheap replacement engines, OEM ride quality, much more engine bay clearance...

I hope what your saying Richard won't apply to me haha ........ My CRX will not suck !!!!!!! i hope :cry: haha

headache09
01-16-2007, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by gpomp

320 whp with 310cc injectors? what's your fuel pressure... 300 psi?


:rofl:

B20EF
01-17-2007, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by 93B20
i never said you didnt know what your talking about, and my coupe is just a little under 2400 pounds adn i ran my friend in his 350 track which is a lil over 2700 pounds and hes putting 300 to the wheels, theres no way i could take him with 230, and 230 with slicks wont run a 12.5i know people with over 3 with slicks that run that time, im running street tires, never ran it with radials or slicks

waiting on these dyno graph's, cause i'm pretty sure you're full of :bullshit:

Mr_ET
01-18-2007, 07:08 AM
I've seen a k20 with 17:1 compression ratio get 310whp so you are getting that with less compression I hope you're reving to 14000rpm cause that 310whp motor had to rev to 10000rpm to get that... :nut:

Revhard
01-18-2007, 06:31 PM
No, the 350z doesn't weigh 2700.
My rsx weighs 2775 stock, and the 350 is rwd,v6,bigger.
The curb weight for a track edition is listed as 3197 or 3274, depending on the year. Regular is 3340.
That gives you about 8-900 lbs, which is a huge advantage.
In rough theory, you could have about 80hp less, and still hold this guy.
Assuming his mods got hi about 20hp, that puts him in the 320+
crank hp range, you in the 240-260 crank hp range, or about 220-230whp on a gracious dynojet.
200 on a good mustang dyno.
Given your elevation and listed time, it would make sense.
Mph will tell alot though.
It would have to be about 104-107 to match, and about 115-120
if you had the power you think you do.

racin_jayson
01-18-2007, 06:31 PM
this is a very informative thread :rolleyes:

racin_jayson
01-18-2007, 06:35 PM
Originally posted by richardchan2002


Ask anyone with a swapped B series EF to take you for a spin in their car. B series + EF = Suck.

harsh ride maybe....loud maybe... but suck is a bit of a stretch. Does driving a go-kart suck? I love my EF, that cut me deep Richard...