Hunting is not cruel

[Tyler883]

Geez, i get so pissed off when I hear someone say that hunting is so cruel, and that it should be made illegal.

In my opinion, we have the right to hunt, and along with it we have the responsibility to manage our wildlife. Some of western Canada's largest populations of Elk actually came from the prairies in the early 1900s so that we could manage and hunt them. The farmers on the prairies wanted to slaughter them, but we have turned them into on of North America's strongest Elk populations.

So whats so cruel about that, eh?

[ramminghard]

I find that its people who fish and hunt that care the most about the enviorment.

[brandon]

that is like saying there is a huge population in china, we should go over there and hunt them down to control the population!

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by ramminghard
I find that its people who fish and hunt that care the most about the enviorment.

I agree.

Ducks unlimited has created more wet lands than the seirra club.

Yet, somehow the sierra club feels that they are more enlightened.

[statick]

if we don't hunt those certain animals, something else would probably end up hunting them anyway.

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by brandon
that is like saying there is a huge population in china, we should go over there and hunt them down to control the population!

No, its not. Theres a difference between animals and humans.

Hunters dont plan on shooting humans and serving them up on a platter for everyone to eat.

And we also dont plan on having a policy of non-interferance w.r.t. our wildlife like we might with other soveriegn nations. We have a responsibility to manage wildlife.

[statick]

^i know where ur coming from, but wut brandon is getting at is that some ppl see humans and animals as equal.

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by statick
^i know where ur coming from, but wut brandon is getting at is that some ppl see humans and animals as equal.

even if that is true, i didn't rise to the top of my food chain to eat tofu.:rofl:

[Melinda]

Originally posted by Tyler883


even if that is true, i didn't rise to the top of my food chain to eat tofu.:rofl:
As intelligent as that comment is, there are things that eat us too if they are given the chance to do so.

[DUBBED]

The way I see it we don't deserve to hunt unless we can do it with what "God gave you". What gives humans the right to tromp around the forest with a shotgun blasting down elks? Just because we're more evolved doesn't make us any less of an animal.

I just think it's wrong to harm ANY sort of living thing for pleasure, for purpose MAYBE but never for pleasure.

EDIT: I guess I eat meat so raising and killing for purpose is fine by me.

[awd]

I hunt at Safeway.

[HillBilly]

Originally posted by DUBBED
What gives humans the right to tromp around the forest with a shotgun blasting down elks?

90% of remarks like this, come from people who have never been hunting or even held a gun.

FYI you don't shoot elk with a shotgun. You shoot elk with a rifle.

[lint]

Originally posted by Stealth R/T


90% of remarks like this, come from people who have never been hunting or even held a gun.

FYI you don't shoot elk with a shotgun. You shoot elk with a rifle.

Shotgun, or rifle or semi_automatic, I think the point of what he is saying is that it's not really a fair confrontation.

I'll go on the record, I've never gone hunting, but I have held a gun and participated in skeet shooting. I enjoyed it, but I have no desire to shoot another living thing for sport. But like Dubbed said, if you can chase down an elk and bring it down with your bare hands, more power to you.

[Primer_Drift]

^^ thats right, shotguns are for hunting small rodents.

Population control of elk and deer is no longer an option. We have disrupted the food chain and nearly wiped out the primary predators. It is necessary to control the elk and deer population or we run the risk of further disrupting the ecosystem, affecting many species not hunted by man.

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by DUBBED
The way I see it we don't deserve to hunt unless we can do it with what "God gave you". What gives humans the right to tromp around the forest with a shotgun blasting down elks? Well, god gave humans a brain to invent gunpowder, so therefore its fair game. If Elks had the smarts to invent gunpowder, they would kill us too.:poosie:

[finboy]

Originally posted by Tyler883


No, its not. Theres a difference between animals and humans.

Hunters dont plan on shooting humans and serving them up on a platter for everyone to eat.

And we also dont plan on having a policy of non-interferance w.r.t. our wildlife like we might with other soveriegn nations. We have a responsibility to manage wildlife.

so does that mean we should release some tribes of cannibals in overpopulated nations to control the population?

[finboy]

Originally posted by Primer_Drift
^^ thats right, shotguns are for hunting small rodents.

Population control of elk and deer is no longer an option. We have disrupted the food chain and nearly wiped out the primary predators. It is necessary to control the elk and deer population or we run the risk of further disrupting the ecosystem, affecting many species not hunted by man.

people could just breed more preditors to solve the issue instead of issuing hunting lisences :dunno:

[awd]

I have hunted moose, deer and elk for MEAT -- nothing beats moose steak, deer sausage or elk jerky.

The guys I hate are the assholes hunting for "sport" -- ie. wolves. I would like to put a .308 hole in one of these pricks.

I see no "sport" in hunting an animal with a high powered rifle.

Here is what I would like to see:

Strip one of these bastards naked, give him a sharp stick and drop him in the middle of nowhere and see how many wolves or cougars he can kill.

Thats what I call "sport".

[Barking_Spidre]

I hunt in Big Buck Hunter. :D

If I were to hunt, I'd use a bow!

[HillBilly]

Hunting for meat is OK
Hunting for predator control is fine.

If you have a dozen wolves sneaking into your farmyard at night and eating half your chickens, I don't expect you to sit by and say "Well, I hope they breed a creature thet eats wolves soon"

if you want to just go shoot stuff.. shoot targets.. not animals.

[finboy]

Originally posted by awd
I have hunted moose, deer and elk for MEAT -- nothing beats moose steak, deer sausage or elk jerky.

The guys I hate are the assholes hunting for "sport" -- ie. wolves. I would like to put a .308 hole in one of these pricks.

I see no "sport" in hunting an animal with a high powered rifle.

Here is what I would like to see:

Strip one of these bastards naked, give him a sharp stick and drop him in the middle of nowhere and see how many wolves or cougars he can kill.

Thats what I call "sport".

:werd:

i don't mind hunting so long as you actually use most of the animal. but the whole sport hunting thing still baffles me.

[HillBilly]

Originally posted by Barking_Spidre
I hunt in Big Buck Hunter. :D

If I were to hunt, I'd use a bow!

I do use a bow. Very different hunting methods required....

[Primer_Drift]

Its not that simple. Primary predators, such as wolves for example, are much more sensitive to human presence. While in theory breeding and releasing wolves might sound easy, it is not in practice. You are correct though, there have been good sucesses in transplanting wolves from northern populations in places like Yellowstone National park in the US. The reintroduction of a primary predator has helped curb population growth of deer, elk, moose and bison in particular in the park. Link here (http://www.nps.gov/yell/nature/animals/wolf/wolfrest.html)
Humans have their place in the ecosystem, it is in finding the balance that should be the issue, because doing nothing now could be just as cruel as the hunting people are against.

[DEREK57]

I agree with this. As long as we follow the regulations, and make sure that we protect the existance of the species, then hunting is fine. Even if you think animals are the same as humans, its a predatory world out there, the wolves have their speed and claws to kill deer, and we have the brains to make guns.

[HillBilly]

Originally posted by DEREK57
its a predatory world out there, the wolves have their speed and claws to kill deer, and we have the brains to make guns.
:werd:

[awd]

Originally posted by Stealth R/T

:werd:

Ok, brains and predatory nature aside; whats the point of killing a wolf?

You need its pelt for a coat? Like eating dog meat?

As humans, we should be smart enough to realize that we shouldn't destroy life for our own amusement.

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by DUBBED

I just think it's wrong to harm ANY sort of living thing for pleasure, for purpose MAYBE but never for pleasure.

EDIT: I guess I eat meat so raising and killing for purpose is fine by me.

I don't apologize for taking pleasure in hunting. Most of my hunts are unsuccessful, yet I take pleasure in them.

On rare occasion, I have a successful hunt, yet I still take pleasure in it.

I bring home all the meat, and I take pleasure in it.

I treat every portion of meat like its being made for a king, (they don't eat any better than I do,) and I take pleasure in it.

To think that I have to do all this for purpose only - in order to be politically correct......I take no pleasure in this idea.

[awd]

Originally posted by Tyler883

I don't apologize for taking pleasure in hunting. Most of my hunts are unsuccessful, yet I take pleasure in them.

On rare occasion, I have a successful hunt, yet I still take pleasure in it.

I bring home all the meat, and I take pleasure in it.

I treat every portion of meat like its being made for a king, (they don't eat any better than I do,) and I take pleasure in it.

To think that I have to do all this for purpose only - in order to be politically correct......I take no pleasure in this idea.

Sounds like you take too much "pleasure" in it Dr. Lecter.

http://www.tech-sol.net/humor/Hannibal_Lecter.gif

I have been hunting for 15 years, for meat not pleasure.

[Tyler883]

As a hunter, I fully understand the role that I play in the death of other animals.

Not like "safeway hunters" ...

They sit in their houses and deny the role that you play in the death of animals. How do you think that celophane package of meat got to your freezer? Somebody else did your dirty work for you!

Do you have any idea how animals are treated in the beef and poultry industry?And you call me cruel?

You guys are certainly NOT on higher moral ground than me.

At least there's one thing that I can say about vegetarians that I can't say about "safeway hunters".....They are at least trying to stay consistant with their beliefs.

[Melinda]

I am the neice/granddaughter of two cattle ranchers. I can assure you, not all cattle are treated as horribly as all the propeganda is teaching you they are. They are raised for food purposes. Deer, Elk, moose, ect are not raised to be shot and eaten.

[abyss]

There are many places that will raise elk and Buffalo to be shot and eaten, I'm alright with that. Also I'm alright with hunting so long as you use what you kill and not just leave it there. I personally don't think I could ever do it though, I shot a bow at a picture of a deer one time and ended up hitting it right through the heart. :cry: I felt really bad and it was only a picture!

[pixil9]

How about this guy kyle i know who has shot 3 bears in his life and has their furs on the walls.. along with about 30 other deer, elk and moose heads. Oh don't forget the 40 birds as well. House of death. sick fuck.

[Charon]

Nothing tastes the same as wild game. I have hunted for food. And see nothing wrong with it. As an animal I would rather be shot then torn appart by a predator or die of disease.
As per getting naked and chasing them around the bush ??? Are you retarded ? Do you get naked and raise animals to be killed ? You were not born with fences, barns, stoves, etc.....

As per sport, I would have no problem with it perhaps with the folloing. You pay extra, and the meat has to be processed and dontated to perhaps a charity.

I grew up on a small farm and would not have a second thought about shooting an animal after my livestock.

/my 2cents

[Primer_Drift]

Originally posted by pixil9
How about this guy kyle i know who has shot 3 bears in his life and has their furs on the walls.. along with about 30 other deer, elk and moose heads. Oh don't forget the 40 birds as well. House of death. sick fuck.

^^ Did Kyle tell u they where "Coming right at us!" :rofl:
yeah taxidermy I don't really undestand..

[DUBBED]

Originally posted by Tyler883


I don't apologize for taking pleasure in hunting. Most of my hunts are unsuccessful, yet I take pleasure in them.

On rare occasion, I have a successful hunt, yet I still take pleasure in it.

I bring home all the meat, and I take pleasure in it.

I treat every portion of meat like its being made for a king, (they don't eat any better than I do,) and I take pleasure in it.

To think that I have to do all this for purpose only - in order to be politically correct......I take no pleasure in this idea.



To be honest it's the ACT of killing that bothers me personally, I was just raised that way. The fact that other people enjoy it doesn't bother me, that's just the way some were raised and it's not my business to impose on that. Animals being dead doesn't bother me, kill anything you want just don't ask me to come with you. Know what I mean?

This may sound stupid but I got paid to shoot gofers at this driving range outside the city one year, and watching them suffer after putting a bullet in them was the most disturbing thing to me. Even though they are the most useless annoying animal ever.
:dunno:

[DUBBED]

Originally posted by Stealth R/T


90% of remarks like this, come from people who have never been hunting or even held a gun.

FYI you don't shoot elk with a shotgun. You shoot elk with a rifle.


100% of remarks like this come from people who don't understand what I'm talking about.

[finboy]

Q: say some alien life form discovers our planet and is lacking food, they are smarter then us and can hunt us w/o issue. would they have the right to take out human's for food OR control the population of overpopulated areas?

gotta love the hypothetical situations :D

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by finboy


so does that mean we should release some tribes of cannibals in overpopulated nations to control the population?

What?!?!?!!?!

Please explain - LOL

[finboy]

Originally posted by Tyler883


What?!?!?!!?!

Please explain - LOL

well you suggested hunting for population control, so animals don't over-populate.

humans have overpopulated many countries, so in that case why not let cannibals in there for "population control"

they wouldn't be wasting the meat, as they would be eating it.

[Melinda]

Originally posted by Tyler883


What?!?!?!!?!

Please explain - LOL
What's to explain? You guys say it's a needed thing to hunt animals because if they over populate an area, all the resources will be all used up and other harms could come, but its different than killing humans cause hunters eat the animals.

He's saying that if we put some human predators into overpopulated areas of the world (in this instance he used cannibals) Would that be considered okay to you?

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by Melinda
I am the neice/granddaughter of two cattle ranchers. I can assure you, not all cattle are treated as horribly as all the propeganda is teaching you they are. They are raised for food purposes. Deer, Elk, moose, ect are not raised to be shot and eaten.

Actually the Elk in most of eastern BC were brought here for that very reason, and it is now one of the strongest populations in North America. Don't figure, eh?

Near the beginning of the 1900s, elk were brought in by the train load for sportman to hunt(shoot and eat). If you want to dig through old photos of the Crows Nest Pass, you can see pics of them unloading the elk.


They are originally a prairie dwelling animal, And if our beef/wheat producing ancesters in Alberta and Saskatchewan had their way....the Elk might be non-existant.

But, I guess you're right, ie the farmers are way more enlightened than the miners are ( this part written in sarcasm)

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by Melinda

What's to explain? You guys say it's a needed thing to hunt animals because if they over populate an area, all the resources will be all used up and other harms could come, but its different than killing humans cause hunters eat the animals.

He's saying that if we put some human predators into overpopulated areas of the world (in this instance he used cannibals) Would that be considered okay to you?

Tsk tsk, I could easily reword this approach so that it challenges you on your beleifs about farming..

..for example: If I start talking about herding humans in fenced areas,then fattening them up for consumption.....would you really think this was a reasonable way to debate the merrits of cattle farming? :banghead:

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by DUBBED

I just think it's wrong to harm ANY sort of living thing for pleasure, for purpose MAYBE but never for pleasure.




Vegetarians think that they can live without effect on their suroundings....
but how many wild plants and small animals have parished so that someone can plant a field of soy beans for their precious tofu?

FACT:In order to live, something else must die!

You're in denial of the role that you play in the death and destruction of living things.

[Tyler883]

Hunters take one animal at a time out of it's envirement.

Safeway hunters take one steak at a time out of the store. Safeway hunters love to pay someone else to do their dirty work of killing and butchering. The killing and butchering still takes place, but they don't have a stomach for it. Safeway hunters would dare admit that they play a role in the killing and butchering of other animals. Safeway hunters feel that if they dont get involved in the process until the meat is wrapped in celophane, they are somehow morally superior to hunters.

[Tyler883]

Hunters receive their nutrition from an animal that had a life worthy of mentioning.

Safeway hunters buy from farmers that love to keep their chickens in cages, hardly a life worth mentioning.

[Tyler883]

I'm not saying that hunting is a world solution for meat. I'm just ticked off at the attitude that I am somehow cruel or wrong to hunt.

Your way is not morally superior to any hunter.

[Dave P]

Im eating a steak right now, and damn its delicious

[finboy]

Originally posted by Tyler883


Actually the Elk in most of eastern BC were brought here for that very reason, and it is now one of the strongest populations in North America. Don't figure, eh?

Near the beginning of the 1900s, elk were brought in by the train load for sportman to hunt(shoot and eat). If you want to dig through old photos of the Crows Nest Pass, you can see pics of them unloading the elk.


They are originally a prairie dwelling animal, And if our beef/wheat producing ancesters in Alberta and Saskatchewan had their way....the Elk might be non-existant.

But, I guess you're right, ie the farmers are way more enlightened than the miners are ( this part written in sarcasm)



Originally posted by Tyler883


Tsk tsk, I could easily reword this approach so that it challenges you on your beleifs about farming..

..for example: If I start talking about herding humans in fenced areas,then fattening them up for consumption.....would you really think this was a reasonable way to debate the merrits of cattle farming? :banghead:



Originally posted by Tyler883



Vegetarians think that they can live without effect on their suroundings....
but how many wild plants and small animals have parished so that someone can plant a field of soy beans for their precious tofu?

FACT:In order to live, something else must die!

You're in denial of the role that you play in the death and destruction of living things.



Originally posted by Tyler883
Hunters take one animal at a time out of it's envirement.

Safeway hunters take one steak at a time out of the store. Safeway hunters love to pay someone else to do their dirty work of killing and butchering. The killing and butchering still takes place, but they don't have a stomach for it. Safeway hunters would dare admit that they play a role in the killing and butchering of other animals. Safeway hunters feel that if they dont get involved in the process until the meat is wrapped in celophane, they are somehow morally superior to hunters.



Originally posted by Tyler883
Hunters receive their nutrition from an animal that had a life worthy of mentioning.

Safeway hunters buy from farmers that love to keep their chickens in cages, hardly a life worth mentioning.



Originally posted by Tyler883
I'm not saying that hunting is a world solution for meat. I'm just ticked off at the attitude that I am somehow cruel or wrong to hunt.

Your way is not morally superior to any hunter.


lesson 1: instead of making a post every couple of minutes , combine them into 1, its less annoying

most people have already stated that they don't see a problem with hunting for food or population control so long as it is regulated, but you still haven't answered any of my hypothetical situations...

releasing cannibals into overpopulated area's

OR

another smarter, and superior species comes to this planet and starts hunting humans down for food and population control.

would either of those situations be wrong and why?

[DUBBED]

Also, you're still responding to my original post. Later in the thread I explained that I have no problem with people hunting. I just have a problem with it being called a sport. I also have an issue watching things die, I just don't find pleasure in watching something else in pain.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by DUBBED
Also, you're still responding to my original post. Later in the thread I explained that I have no problem with people hunting. I just have a problem with it being called a sport. I also have an issue watching things die, I just don't find pleasure in watching something else in pain.

I also share this view.

[Tyler883]

finboy,

your hypothetical questions are so weird....

it's not that I'm avoiding them, I just don't know what to say.

Personally, I don't think they compare because you are using examples with humans.But if you really want any answer here it is( my best attempt at honesty)

1) No we shouldn't release cannibalism into a population. I take offense in the suggestion that hunters compare to cannibalism. Hunters and hunting are deeply rooted into many cultures, and history. But - with exception of a few cultures - cannibalism is kinda way out there in left field.

I'm talking about a traditional sources of food for many people past and present. And, your talking about mass carnage of humans? I deserve a good kick in the ass to even give you this much of my time.

2) If aliens came down and started hunting humans, I would find it quite ironic, if some of the aliens "domesticated" smaller populations of humans...jammed us into cages/farms for eventually consumption.....then turned on the hunters and said " hunting is cruel"

[JordanLotoski]

i dissagree with hunting, dunno how anyone can kill an innocent animal.

and yes i understand we eat cows and pigs....But i dont do the killing

[Tyler883]

Or how about " Personally, I haven't got the stomach for shooting humans, I prefer to by McHuman burger at the starbase restaurant"

[finboy]

Originally posted by Tyler883
finboy,

your hypothetical questions are so weird....

it's not that I'm avoiding them, I just don't know what to say.

Personally, I don't think they compare because you are using examples with humans.But if you really want any answer here it is( my best attempt at honesty)

1) No we shouldn't release cannibalism into a population. I take offense in the suggestion that hunters compare to cannibalism. Hunters and hunting are deeply rooted into many cultures, and history. But - with exception of a few cultures - cannibalism is kinda way out there in left field.

I'm talking about a traditional sources of food for many people past and present. And, your talking about mass carnage of humans? I deserve a good kick in the ass to even give you this much of my time.

2) If aliens came down and started hunting humans, I would find it quite ironic, if some of the aliens "domesticated" smaller populations of humans...jammed us into cages/farms for eventually consumption.....then turned on the hunters and said " hunting is cruel"

canabalism is traditional in fiji (i even have one of the tools used for consumption of the human brain, cool little tool), so if their culture has it in their history? who are we to stop them if they wanted to start controling the population?

[Melinda]

Originally posted by Tyler883


Tsk tsk, I could easily reword this approach so that it challenges you on your beleifs about farming..

..for example: If I start talking about herding humans in fenced areas,then fattening them up for consumption.....would you really think this was a reasonable way to debate the merrits of cattle farming? :banghead:
When someone who has the power can take 2 humans, breed the crap out of them and raise them for the sole purpose of food, then maybe you can turn the tables on that situation. Until then, I don't feel my farming beliefs have been touched.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by finboy


but you still haven't answered any of my hypothetical situations...

releasing cannibals into overpopulated area's

OR

another smarter, and superior species comes to this planet and starts hunting humans down for food and population control.

would either of those situations be wrong and why?

Well, since some people don't have a problem with killing caged animals because they don't live a life worth mentioning, how about just bringing all the people in prisons to a slaughter house?

As was mentioned earlier, I too, would rather be shot in the head than die slowly of disease or be incapacitated and eaten alive by wolves.

If humans were over populating the earth and could possibly cause our extinction, I'd hope someone or something would take measures to remedy the situation, especially if it had the means to do so.

[Primer_Drift]

Originally posted by finboy


canabalism is traditional in fiji (i even have one of the tools used for consumption of the human brain, cool little tool), so if their culture has it in their history? who are we to stop them if they wanted to start controling the population?

I've also been to Fiji a few times, and know a bit about this ritual. It is common amoung many south pacific and indo-pacific tribes it serves a few purposes, but definetly not to control population. They believe eating the bodies of the dead is a way of gaining the fallen warriors strength, a way of overcoming the angry spirit of the dead by consuming their bodies, and to pay respect to the fallen by allowing them to live on in you. There are several other interpretations of cannibalism, but never have I heard it being used for human population control. Deer don't go around eating other deer to control their population so I dont see how its rellevant to controlling any species population. I don't think they cannibalize for the fun of it, its sacred to them.Cannibals are not mans natural predators, there is no comparison between controlling a food source and controlling a predatory animal (humans). Our mortality rate, birth rate, food sources and habitat are the only limiting factors to our own population.

I personally do not think hunting is wrong. What the hunter gets out of the hunt is his/her own, and the hunters feelings regarding killing an animal should not be judged immoral if its obviously a necessary task. People seem to have the misconception that hunting is intended to make an animal suffer, I don't think any responsible hunter would want that. We're not talking about going to asia and slaughtering pandas to make some nice rugs; that is poaching, which I do consider immoral because it destroys a species rather than preserving the ecosystem that the species currently inhabits.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Primer_Drift


I've also been to Fiji a few times, and know a bit about this ritual. It is common amoung many south pacific and indo-pacific tribes it serves a few purposes, but definetly not to control population. They believe eating the bodies of the dead is a way of gaining the fallen warriors strength, a way of overcoming the angry spirit of the dead by consuming their bodies, and to pay respect to the fallen by allowing them to live on in you. There are several other interpretations of cannibalism, but never have I heard it being used for human population control. Deer don't go around eating other deer to control their population so I dont see how its rellevant to controlling any species population. I don't think they cannibalize for the fun of it, its sacred to them.Cannibals are not mans natural predators, there is no comparison between controlling a food source and controlling a predatory animal (humans). Our mortality rate, birth rate, food sources and habitat are the only limiting factors to our own population.


my example of cannibalism was strictly to show a form of species that could consume human's, i wasn't saying that cannabalism IS used for population control.

as for the overpopulation, thats a whole different debate on its own, as human sympathy has really knocked off the balance of the human population.

carry on :)

[Charon]

Well, as per population control. Nature handles it in a few ways.

1.
Deer breed
Deer over populate
Deer destroy almost all habitat
Deer starve and die
Deer starve by the thousands/tens of thousands/ whatever
habitat starts to come back
Deer breed


2.
Deer breed
Deer over populate
Predators have lots of food
Predators breed
Predators overpopulate
Predators devistate deer population
Predators starve and die
Deer breed

3.
Humans breed
Humans overpopulate
(Last time I checked no real predator thats going to eat all of us)
Humans consume all resources
Humans almost die off
Humans breed

Ours just happens to be a longer cycle, as the first 2 types of cycles we have seen in the wild before and unless we do something about controling our population ourselfs the same is probably going to happen.

How about putting down stray cats ? Why dont we let the predators take care of them ? Gophers, Rabbits in Austrailia. Because the crops we need to survive means finding a means of control. Hunting is also a method to keep one sharp should one need the ability to survive. Now when this human population thing is out of hand. Dont be asking me for my sausage.


Now
With all the previous discussion.
How many animals eat their own kind ? They fight, sometimes kill but I an unfamiliar of ones that eat each other(Other than insects).

Justifying one type of killing with another doesnt work with me. Just because one was raised for eating makes it "better" that you eat that one and not the other ?????
Explain how that makes you feel superior or that it is right ?
Why is it wrong to kill something wild for food ?
I dont feel that hunting should be justified at all you should have a sufficent argument against it other then how you feel.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Charon
Well, as per population control. Nature handles it in a few ways.

3.
Humans breed
Humans overpopulate
(Last time I checked no real predator thats going to eat all of us)
Humans consume all resources
Humans almost die off
Humans breed


you forgot...
-other humans send tonnes of food to other starving humans, which continue to breed, which makes for a break in the circle.

[Tyler883]

Theres on more way:

Elk come close to being slaughter by farmers
Elk move to hunting location
Elk hunted and managed
Elk population becomes the strongest in North America


Hmmm....its a good thing we have hunters that care about the Elk populations....farmers would rather see you choke on a BSE infested cow.

[Tyler883]

Hey Melinda,

DON'T HAVE A COW!!!! :rofl:

[Tyler883]

Hunter are often refer to a being cruel to wild animals for hunting them.....well, I am very suspicious about the activities of farmers and how they treat their cattle......why is it they call themselves "cowpokes", eh? LOL

[ex1z7]

I'm not a fan of killing things, I had a few bad experiences as a child with dying stuff.

But Deer and Moose meat is the SHITTTTTT ! Oh man .. So good..... Same with Kangaroo - so light .. ohh baby.

But I wouldn't want to kill any of that kinda crap, nor carve it up and get all bloody. I'm quite content buying a slab of pre-cut, non-bleeding, ice covered chunk of meat, and cutting that up to cook , rather then go cap something.

I've held and shot guns etc. I like shooting targets.. If I want a moving target, I'll get someone to throw something.

I don't want to go hunting, but I'm glad when someone comes back from a hunt and gives me a chunk of meat thats just been hanging in the garage.... :clap:

[Toma]

Hunting an animal in the wild is far less cruel then you sissie bitches that would rather have your meat slaughtered for you and sold at Safeway.

You seen the conditions that some domesticated animals are kept in? Ever been to a chicken farm? egg farm?

Gimme a break... those animals are tortured all their lives so you whiners and wankers can go to safeway, buy the meat or eggs or milk and think you have a clear conscience.

Ain't nothing wrong with hunting, and it is SOOO tightly regulated now, and tags and licenses so expensive, it hardly worth it... Mind ya, the meat is probably 4 times more nutritious, and you ain't gonna get no mad cow disease ;)

But damn.... REAL dear jerky.... yummie :poosie:

[HillBilly]

:werd:

ever seen a pig farm before. The new modern ones have about 10,000 pigs in them and they are packed so tightly that they can't move. Thats what they want though because it makes for tender meat that way. The pigs bones are so weak from inactivity, that if they run at all, they break their legs. Then they get thrown in a heap of slurry and rotting carcasses. Every month the slurry is loaded in a tanker and analyzed.

tell me that isn't cruel.

[Melinda]

Originally posted by Toma
Hunting an animal in the wild is far less cruel then you sissie bitches that would rather have your meat slaughtered for you and sold at Safeway.

You seen the conditions that some domesticated animals are kept in? Ever been to a chicken farm? egg farm?

Gimme a break... those animals are tortured all their lives so you whiners and wankers can go to safeway, buy the meat or eggs or milk and think you have a clear conscience.

You guys all seem to have this huge built up idea that all of the "food raised" animals are like chained up and beaten or starved or something. I saw that movie propeganda too and let me clarify something for you;

Out of the thousands of chicken and cattle ranches in Alberta, MAYBE 10% of ALL of them treat their animals even remotely unfair compared to society's standards. They have space to move, they are fed regularly, they aren't chained in a little stall waiting for the big scarry man with a knife to come along and cut their heads off to ship them off to safeway.

[abyss]

Originally posted by Toma
Hunting an animal in the wild is far less cruel then you sissie bitches that would rather have your meat slaughtered for you and sold at Safeway.

You seen the conditions that some domesticated animals are kept in? Ever been to a chicken farm? egg farm?

Gimme a break... those animals are tortured all their lives so you whiners and wankers can go to safeway, buy the meat or eggs or milk and think you have a clear conscience.

Ain't nothing wrong with hunting, and it is SOOO tightly regulated now, and tags and licenses so expensive, it hardly worth it... Mind ya, the meat is probably 4 times more nutritious, and you ain't gonna get no mad cow disease ;)

But damn.... REAL dear jerky.... yummie :poosie:

Why do you assume EVERYONE that buys their meat at safeway is only doing it to have a clear conscience? Maybe some of us just don't have enough free time to go hunting for our families every couple of days to make sure there's always enough meat. :nut: . My aunt and uncle own a chicken farm and their chickens are not abused, or caged, and the conditions are far more spacious then some of the pathetic places people let their family dog roam around in.

[HillBilly]

Originally posted by Melinda

You guys all seem to have this huge built up idea that all of the "food raised" animals are like chained up and beaten or starved or something. I saw that movie propeganda made too and let me clarify something for you.

Out of the thousands of chicken and cattle ranches in alberta, MAYBE 10% of ALL of them treat their animals even close to unfairly compared to society's standards. They have space to move, fed regularly, not chained in a little stall waiting for the big scarry man with a knife to come along.

I can tell you have never left the city and actually visited one of these places. Go and see one and we will see if you have the same opinion. I think the propoganda has gotten to you.

[Melinda]

Originally posted by Stealth R/T


I can tell you have never left the city and actually visited one of these places. Go and see one and we will see if you have the same opinion. I think the propoganda has gotten to you.
How about you read this thread and look back at my posts. I already said both my grandfather and my uncle are cattle ranchers and I have spent much of my childhood on the ranches. I've visited quite a few others in Alberta as well. I'm well aware of the process of these animals being raised, slautered and shipped off for food, but I can confidently assure you, it surely is nothing close to as cruel as you are making it out to be and as I said, maybe only 10% of ranches treat their cattle badly.

I only have a limited experience with chicken farms (I think I've maybe been to 5 farms that raise chickens) but from my experience, they are also not chained up with no where to go waiting for the butcher to come carve up their breasts. They have room to move, they are also fed regularly and live the average life of a chicken.

[HillBilly]

Originally posted by Melinda

How about you read this thread and look back at my posts. I already said both my grandfather and my uncle are cattle ranchers and I have spent much of my childhood on the ranches. I've visited quite a few others in Alberta as well. I'm well aware of the process of these animals being raised, slautered and shipped off for food, but I can confidently assure you, it surely is nothing close to as cruel as you are making it out to be and as I said, maybe only 10% of ranches treat their cattle badly.

I only have a limited experience with chicken farms (I think I've maybe been to 5 farms that raise chickens) but from my experience, they are also not chained up with no where to go waiting for the butcher to come carve up their breasts. They have room to move, they are also fed regularly and live the average life of a chicken.

so you've never been to a pig farm..... Go see what a nice life they have

[Melinda]

Yeah I've been to a few of those, I didn't realize they were part of the conversation. So far I've only read chicken and cattle. It REALLY isn't that bad, honestly.

[Toma]

Originally posted by Melinda
Yeah I've been to a few of those, I didn't realize they were part of the conversation. So far I've only read chicken and cattle. It REALLY isn't that bad, honestly.
It's worse actually then most people imagine....

Dont even get me going on the slaughterhouses ;)

[HillBilly]

i think we are getting a little off topic here. As far as hunting is concerned, I think that it is far less cruel than what a majority of animals have to endure in their lives. I think that this is the point that Toma was trying to get across.

Either way, I hunt, and I don't think its cruel or unfair to the animals.

[Toma]

Originally posted by abyss


Why do you assume EVERYONE that buys their meat at safeway is only doing it to have a clear conscience? Maybe some of us just don't have enough free time to go hunting for our families every couple of days to make sure there's always enough meat. :nut: .

LOL.... I know that, I was just saying that ANYONE that buys animal products has no right to say that a hunter cannot hunt because it is "cruel".

Makes no sense.

There are various chicken farms, and their "quality". A friend of the family purchases low producing older hens from commercial chicken farms, a lot of which have not seen the light of day their whole lives. He turns them into "free range" egg producers.

Takes the chickens several month to start producing normal eggs again, and the change in feed allows them to produce the beautiful and actually tasty and nutritious brown eggs with those ohhhh so beatuiful and delicious orange yolks.... mmmmm

[NickGT]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with hunting. Sport or otherwise. Even with a rifle, you're not guaranteed anything. If you can hunt down your own food in the wild - that's something to be proud of.

I'm not a hunter. But I can at least appreciate the sport and skill required. Man has hunted since forever. Now-a-days its strictly regulated anyway, so whats the big deal..

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by abyss


Why do you assume EVERYONE that buys their meat at safeway is only doing it to have a clear conscience?

I don't assume that anyone fits into this category, until they start to say that hunting is cruel, and meat "raised for a purpose" places them on higher moral ground than hunters.

[Toma]

something for some of you guys to bitch about....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4194963.stm

[Charon]

:rolleyes: For which side ?
As someone supporting hunting, endangered animals should be preserved to the best of our ability.

But I propose this question. Which is more important, human or animals? Land is required to support human population or wild animal population. The way evolution is going on this planet, wild will soon be a thing of the past as the human population increases more land will be needed to farm food.

SO EVERYONE please do your part to preserve endangered animals and wild land. Go jump off a bridge :D

Seriously the biggest problem is TOO MANY HUMANS and I don’t see any way of solving it that everyone will agree with.

As per that article yes it’s cruel to that animal population. But it looks to me that they no longer have the wild lands to support the population either. And no single group is responsible for that other then the obvious.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Charon

Seriously the biggest problem is TOO MANY HUMANS


:werd:

[5abi]

pros of being a hunter/fisher:

Feeling brave and STRONG by killing a defenseless animal with a POWERFULL firearm.

Killing a beutifall animal so that they can hang its head on their wall so no1 else can c this beutifall animal in nature.

Feeling really proud when you hook a fish in the mouth, and swing it about its mouth.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We have created farms, we have created them well, as humans we should learn to let the enviroment balance its self, and we should eat farmed products...u can't have the best of both worlds ppl.

Or if hunting is legal, u should be able to hunt the hunter.
:guns:

I love watching those fishing shows, when those anglers hook a fish, and show it to the camera, and act as if they worked so hard at causing that fish the shock, and pain of being hooked, hung by its weight and being pulled outta water.

Or those hunting shows, where they kill a huge deer, and say wow what a beutifall animal, if the animal is so damned gorgeous why not leave it alive so it can reproduce more beutifall animals? Or so that other people may have the pleasure of oneday enjoying that animal in nature...instead of dried and stuffed on some1s wall.

[Charon]

Seems like a hippie to me.... but since you assume the following I can assume that.


Originally posted by 5abi
pros of being a hunter/fisher:

Feeling brave and STRONG by killing a defenseless animal with a POWERFULL firearm.

Killing a beutifall animal so that they can hang its head on their wall so no1 else can c this beutifall animal in nature.

Feeling really proud when you hook a fish in the mouth, and swing it about its mouth.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So defenceless when they could tear you apart given the chance?
Bear, wolf. Could rip a human to shit. Our defence a brain!
Deer. Id like to see a human take one down they are alot stronger then you think.
Cows, pigs and chickens are defenseless and non-threatening, but it is acceptable to pay someone to kill them so that we can eat them. Game animals on the other hand, can sometimes be very threatening. More importantly, game animals have very strong defenses. Their senses of smell and hearing are exponentially more sensitive than our own and these senses are used to aid in their survival.
It is extremely difficult to sneak up on a game animal in the wild


Originally posted by 5abi

We have created farms, we have created them well, as humans we should learn to let the enviroment balance its self, and we should eat farmed products...u can't have the best of both worlds ppl.



Not so well that animals are sick less, have better diets, are not given growth hormones.


Originally posted by 5abi

Or if hunting is legal, u should be able to hunt the hunter.
:guns:

Bring it on, ill wait for you :guns: lets see who wins
But that has to be one of the dumbest comments thus far.




Originally posted by 5abi

I love watching those fishing shows, when those anglers hook a fish, and show it to the camera, and act as if they worked so hard at causing that fish the shock, and pain of being hooked, hung by its weight and being pulled outta water.

Or those hunting shows, where they kill a huge deer, and say wow what a beutifall animal, if the animal is so damned gorgeous why not leave it alive so it can reproduce more beutifall animals? Or so that other people may have the pleasure of oneday enjoying that animal in nature...instead of dried and stuffed on some1s wall.

Ever been fishing or hunting ?
I really dont see anything wrong with it.
For me, whether my food is bought from a store, raised by me or taken by me in the wild, it is all the same from an ethical perspective. I dont think they should let the fish go on those shows. Just kill it and eat it.

And given population control, I love it how you people are the first to scream against hunting untill an animal population starts to affect you in some way. I have seen that MANY times.

[doublepostwhore]

Like previously stated by Abyss I buy my meat at safeway because of convenience. I too value the life of another creature but at the same time I value my own... and if that means that eating meat can give me the strength to live, then so be it.

I disagree with SPORT hunting... the misconception is that all hunters, hunt for the pleasure of seeing an animal die, however alot of hunters hunt for the meat of the animal. Who are we as "innocent" "guiltless" people to judge the way others go about gaining there food?

Although the claim of "population control" is weak and un-necessary, I do believe that if our sence is developed through firearms then so be it, hairs can run fast... we can drive fast. We have eveolved to beable to fabricate things to facilitate our "sences" if you think animals in there natural habitat do not develop methods/ways to one up there preditor/food source... then you are under estimating the ability of other life forms to live.

IF someone could find away to let all the animals roam free and live a meaningful life but also keep up with demand for our hungry lifestyle... then have at er'.

The only hunters that should be hunted should be those whom dont utilise their killings... that is where the "cruelty" comes in.

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by 5abi


We have created farms, we have created them well, as humans we should learn to let the enviroment balance its self, and we should eat farmed products...u can't have the best of both worlds ppl.

.

That enviremental balance was tainted by man, when we moved the elk off the prairies, and into the mountains, in the early 1900s.

If you really want the envirement to balance itself, we'll have to move the elk back into Saskatchewan and Alberta....right where most of our "created farms" are.

The BC rockies will loose one of the strongest elk populations in north america.

The farmers will loose alot of productivity, but I'm sure that eventually they will be able to kill or slaughter most of the elk( like they planned to in the early 1900's)

You can't have your balanced envirement...and one of the elks populations biggest success stories comes from relocating elk for the purpose of hunting. Why is this so? Becuase mostly it's the hunters that care about the wildlife, NOT FARMERS!

[5abi]

fact be it, the only reason ppl hunt is for a sick and sadistic fun.

who actualy only eats hunted meats???

or their own fished fish?

?????!?!??!?!?!?!?

[Melinda]

Originally posted by 5abi
fact be it, the only reason ppl hunt is for a sick and sadistic fun.

who actualy only eats hunted meats???

or their own fished fish?

?????!?!??!?!?!?!?
Most hunters/fishermen do eat their own catches.

[Rockski]

Originally posted by 5abi
fact be it, the only reason ppl hunt is for a sick and sadistic fun.

who actualy only eats hunted meats???

or their own fished fish?

?????!?!??!?!?!?!?


almost every single person i know... even the people who mount the heads keep and eat the rest

[Charon]

Originally posted by 5abi
fact be it, the only reason ppl hunt is for a sick and sadistic fun.

who actualy only eats hunted meats???

or their own fished fish?

?????!?!??!?!?!?!?

You are one sadly misinformed person. I eat EVERYTHING I catch or shoot. Tastes much better than farmed products. Time for someone to get out into the woods more.

*if you have flush toilets or any toilets for that matter keep looking

[pixil9]

dah.. I love shooting innocent animals.. especially squirrels and chip munks. Though nothing beats capping a deer and leaving it to rot in the sun! The best part is when you watch it squirm and bleed to death!

[5abi]

so hunters are also stoopid?


"who actualy only eats hunted meats???"

which one of u brave warriors of the rifle actualy eat ONLY hunted meat?

[carstar]

Hunting for FUN is cruel. But if you're hunting for food and going to eat whatever you kill...that's totally different. I mean, we all eat meat (vegans and vegetarians aside) and i mean, i don't think it really matters if it's from a bullet or a machine that chops that bad boy up.
The fact is, as long as we eat meat...how it gets there doesn't really matter right?

[pixil9]

I love it on my acreage.. I regularly shoot birds from my porch for fun.. hawks and owls are the best. Also shooting coyotes are more of a challenge but they don't stray by too often. you should try it.

[HillBilly]

Originally posted by pixil9
I love it on my acreage.. I regularly shoot birds from my porch for fun.. hawks and owls are the best. Also shooting coyotes are more of a challenge but they don't stray by too often. you should try it.

hawks and owls eh? I don't really care but you better get ready for a flaming from all the tree-hugging faggets who subscribed to this thread.

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by carstar
Hunting for FUN is cruel.....

I agreed with most of your post, but need to comment on this part:

I hunt for fun(i.e. I enjoy both successful and unsuccessful hunts). Although, I always take home the meat, AND the meat gets consumed( ie it never goes to waste) by myself and my family.

I agree, that I don't need to hunt ( because the safeway sells farmed meats) so I agree that it might be considered "cruel" to be involved in the unneccessary death of a wild animal......

However, please explain the difference in morality between the uneccessary death of a wild animal, and the unneccessary death of a farmed animals.

If I am cruel for eating wild meat, then those overweight lardos that eat more burgers than nutritionally required should be locked up for their transgressions.

You guys aren't on higher moral ground than hunters, stop fooling yourself.

[Charon]

On a similar note. Hunting gophers is fun. Call it what you want. They are a varmit, farmers want to get rid of them. And its 'fun' as its a challenge to shoot them most of the time.

I dont know how people are against this. These buggers ruin land and assist in braking cows/horses legs. Or you could turn to poisoning them..... that sounds more humane :dunno:

P.S If anyone knows some farmers that need to get rid of some gophers let me know. I am allways looking for new hunting grounds.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by 5abi
fact be it, the only reason ppl hunt is for a sick and sadistic fun.

who actualy only eats hunted meats???

or their own fished fish?

?????!?!??!?!?!?!?

Billions of people worldwide actually.

Did you think that everyone could run to Safeway to buy their dinner? Hunting is the reason you have dinner on your plate tonight.

[Charon]

This is what im getting out the disscussion.

One side thinks its wrong, and we are better than animals and should not hunt because it makes us more like the animals ???

But animals cannot control their population, if they have the chance to breed they will. And as much as they can. Its a survial thing.

Now humans are over populating area's but humans *should* be able to control their population because they are *higher* than animals right?

As per all the non hunters..... how do think we should control animal/ human populations ?? And are you going to provide me with meat as high quality as wild ???

/me waits for some crazy awnsers, grounded in some reality gained while detached from any thing to do with nature.

[5abi]

ppl in the west weapon R, who can afford 2 hun can damn well afford to goto the supermarket.

all u guys have is population control.

none of my buisiness, enjoy killing innocent animals.



piz out last post on this topic.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by 5abi
ppl in the west weapon R, who can afford 2 hun can damn well afford to goto the supermarket.

all u guys have is population control.

none of my buisiness, enjoy killing innocent animals.



piz out last post on this topic.

I'm honestly not sure what your point is. People who hunt mostly do it for the food, and it is immoral to kill for pleasure. Although, I must admit, fishing and hunting are both enjoyable and a necessity. But do you honestly think that buying food at Safeway is better than killing it yourself? I cannot even fathom a single argument for your point of view - animals killed in slaughter houses are somehow better to consume, because they aren't hunted?

Now answer me this: What is the difference between buying meat in the supermarket, and killing an animal for meat. I'll answer for you;

Killing an animal for consumption with a rifle is far less painful for the animal than electrocuting it like many slaughter houses do. Further, killing an animal in the wild ensures that the animal has not been subjected to hormone stimulating needles, which means that its safer to eat. An animal that is slaughtered in the wild and prepared is often fully utilized, while those in slaughter houses see tremendous waste.

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by 5abi
ppl in the west weapon R, who can afford 2 hun can damn well afford to goto the supermarket.

all u guys have is population control.

none of my buisiness, enjoy killing innocent animals.



piz out last post on this topic.

Going to safeway, and paying someone else to do all the dirty work, affords you the convenience and luxury that many people enjoy.

BUT, it doesn't make your hands less dirty.

I find your veiws very hypcritical.

I don't have to justify myself to you. You need to justify your hypocracy.