Unporportional

[gggunit]

My arms are getting huge.. my chest is allright but falling behind, so it looks unpoportional.. Im doing heavy heavy reps.. like 4-6 max when doing bench.. but still not growing as much as my arms and shoulders are.. any tips?

My chest Routine

Flat Bench 4 Sets
Incline Flys 4 Sets of 10
Incline Bench 3 sets Heavy
Pec Dec or Cables- 3 sets
Decline bench or Dumbells

Sometimes I add Flat Dumbell Press to give it more of a burn.

TIPS TIPS TIPS

[sputnik]

Personally I like the Bent-Arm Dumbell/Barbell Pullover

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?MainMuscle=Chest

[calgarygts]

Do 8-10 reps instead of 4-6 reps and you'll get more growth.

[1badPT]

In six reps are you reaching full failure? If you have a spotter, make sure you have enough weight to fail within 6 reps, then have your spotter give you a negative rep (they lift the weight up, you resist it on the way down. Also, explode the weight up quickly, wait a second, slowly bring the weight down then repeat. If you're not at failure by 6 reps, increase your weight.

Wait about 5 minutes between sets so you're pushing your maximum weight each set.

Here is my Chest routine if you want to give it a whirl:
Warmup set - 30% of the weight I'll use for the Bench x 20 reps then a 5 minute break.
Bench press (free weights, barbell) 3 sets 6 reps (fast-twitch white muscle fibers) 5 minute break between
Incline press (free weights, barbell) 2 sets 10 reps (intermediate muscle fibers) 3 minute break between
Vertical bench press (machine) 1 set 20 reps (slow-twitch red muscle fibers)

[gggunit]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/planet51.htm

I found this as well, seems pretty cool

[ble]

For optimum growth, do 4-6 heavy reps and no more than 4 exercises for chest. As well, your training should be no longer than 40mins. Change your routine every 4 weeks. The key is to train hard in the least amount of time, other than that, you are simply overtraining.

Go heavy enough where you are struggling with the 6th rep. If you can do 7, then go heavier. Don't do 8-10 because if you think about it, the first 4 reps are be useless simply because they are too light. Might as well use that energy to lift some heavy weights where you're acutually making your muscles work effectively and efficiently. Burning out your muscles at the end will only result in overtraining, which isn't good.

You grow when you're recovering, not in the gym.

[davidI]

Originally posted by ble
For optimum growth, do 4-6 heavy reps and no more than 4 exercises for chest. As well, your training should be no longer than 40mins. Change your routine every 4 weeks. The key is to train hard in the least amount of time, other than that, you are simply overtraining.


No. 4-6 reps will build more strength than size. Go for 8-10.

My old routine looked someting like

BB Bench 135x12 warm-up 185x10 195x10 225x6 or failure 225 til failure
Incline Bench 65x10 75x10 80 til failure 90 til failure
Machine Fly's 3 sets
Dips 3 sets

Sometimes I'd work in cable crossovers and I usually vary the fly's between heavy quick close reps and lighter full extension slow reps.

I'm starting to look back towards strength though so I'll probably start doing a 5x5 routine.

[ble]

Originally posted by davidI


No. 4-6 reps will build more strength than size. Go for 8-10.



If I'm getting bigger without getting stronger than I would definitely question my workouts. I don't know anyone who has gained more muscle mass without the strength.

[davidI]

Originally posted by ble


If I'm getting bigger without getting stronger than I would definitely question my workouts. I don't know anyone who has gained more muscle mass without the strength.

They both go hand in hand but training for size is completely different than training for strength. There are a lot of extremely strong guys that can lift more than bodybuilders of equal weight. It all does with how you train and which muscle fibers you tire.

[ble]

Originally posted by davidI


They both go hand in hand but training for size is completely different than training for strength. There are a lot of extremely strong guys that can lift more than bodybuilders of equal weight. It all does with how you train and which muscle fibers you tire.


You're right, strength and size do come hand in hand because training for strength will ultimately result in size.

For someone who wants to get bigger, wouldn't it make sense for them to try to lift more than what they were lifting previously?

Dang, unless the person is a juice monkey, I never knew there was another easier way in gaining more muscle mass without lifting heavier or getting stronger. That must explain why everyone is so huge.

[Wildcat]

its the intensity of your workout that will pack on the size. try and do 10 reps, and adjust the weight accordingly to reach that 10 reps at full intensity.

youll get bigger doing big movements not big weights. when your pressing, flys etc, dont just drop the weight right after you lift it but slowly return it back to your chest then fire it up again. i see guys who slowly lift then immediatly drop the weights down and lift again, that does jack shit. optimum muscle growth requires the total movement.

[davidI]

Originally posted by ble

You're right, strength and size do come hand in hand because training for strength will ultimately result in size.

For someone who wants to get bigger, wouldn't it make sense for them to try to lift more than what they were lifting previously?

Dang, unless the person is a juice monkey, I never knew there was another easier way in gaining more muscle mass without lifting heavier or getting stronger. That must explain why everyone is so huge.

:rolleyes: I don't think you understand



One day you're in the gym and a freak of nature walks in. This guy has massively ripped muscles from head to toe. As you watch the specimen, he approaches the squat rack. You begin to get excited as he loads the bar in the squat rack. You are wondering how much this guy squats. He begins going through his warm-up sets. He starts with 135 and then 225. He puts 295 on the bar and begins his decent. Guess what? He is stuck at the bottom.

The next day at the gym you notice a short chubby guy walk in that you have not seen before. You watch as he approaches the squat rack. He begins to go through his warm-up sets. He starts his warm-up sets with 135 then 225 and then 315. You are very surprised. This guys physique development does not even come close to the level of the freaks' that was in the gym yesterday. This guy is now squatting 405 with ease. Eventually he moves up to 500lbs. for 3 reps. This is a common scenario.

How do we explain the chubby guy squatting more than the lean muscular machine? Another example of this case is the comparison of powerlifters to bodybuilders. There is a noticeable difference in physique development. The bodybuilders show supreme muscular and physique development in comparison to the powerlifters; but powerlifters are usually stronger. There are numerous factors that contribute to the supreme strength displayed by the powerlifter.

These factors include mechanical advantages such as limb length and tendon insertions. A higher rate of fast twitch muscle fibers and better neural efficiency can also contribute to the disparity of strength between the two athletes. There are numerous other factors that can affect strength, but we will not discuss these issues any further. Our concern in this article is the size strength relationship. More precisely we will look at sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, and myofibrillar hypertrophy.

Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (common in bodybuilding) involves the growth of the sarcoplasm (fluid like substance) and non-contractile proteins that do not directly contribute to muscular force production. Filament area density decreases while cross-sectional area increases, without a significant increase in strength. Myofibrillar hypertrophy occurs due to an increase in myosin-acting filaments. Contractile proteins are synthesized and filament density increases (Zatsiorsky 1995). This type of hypertrophy leads to increased strength production. Sarcoplasmic Hypertrophy Muscle fibers adapt to high volume training by increasing the number of mitochondria (organelles in the cell that are involved in ATP production) in the cell. This type of training also leads to the elevation of enzymes that are involved in glycolytic and oxidative pathways. The volume of sarcoplasmic fluid inside the cell and between the cells is increased with high volume training. This type of training contributes little to maximal strength while it does increase strength endurance due to mitochondria hypertrophy. Growth of connective tissue is also present with sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.

Myofibrillar hypertrophy occurs due to increases in the number of myosin/actin filaments (sarcomeres) inside the cell. This leads to increased strength and size of the contractile unit of muscle. Ultimately this means greater force production. This is often referred to as functional muscle, while sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is referred to as non-functional muscle. ATP and Muscular Growth as we said earlier, increasing the number of mitochondria in the cell means increased ATP production. ATP is required for protein synthesis to occur. Low levels of ATP will halt muscular growth as well as inhibit other metabolic functions that take place inside the muscle cell. Siff and Verkhoshansky have shown that it is possible to increase your muscles contractile unit faster than the mitochondria's ability to compensate for this growth. When actin/myosin filaments out grow the number of mitochondria, growth of elements besides the sarcomere is inhibited. The insufficient quantity of ATP results in the body's inability to promote protein synthesis.

Size vs. Strength

In general, bodybuilders are more muscular than powerlifters, but powerlifters are stronger. How does training with weights that are 90% of 1RM develop strength and power, but do very little for hypertrophy? Studies have shown an intense set of 5 reps involves more fibers than an intense set of 1rep. Research has shown that using loads in the 90% range causes failure to occur before a growth stimulus has been sent to the cells. Therefore other factors besides muscle fiber fatigue result in termination of the set. The muscle simply does not have sufficient time under tension to stimulate the growth process. High rep training produces high levels of phosphate and hydrogen ions, which enhance the growth process. Research has shown heavy lifting enhances neural efficiency (improved motor recruitment, and firing rates), which enhances strength, but does not necessarily result in muscular growth.

With this information you can see why the strength, and size levels are different between bodybuilders and powerlifters. There are powerlifters that possess muscularity comparable to bodybuilders. There are also bodybuilders who have equal or greater strength than powerlifters. Do not misinterpret this article to mean there is no relationship between strength and size.

If you gain 30lbs. of lean tissue you will probably become stronger. The basic idea presented in this article is there is a relationship between size and strength, but strength increases can occur due to other reasons. Just as size increase can occur with a non-linear strength increase.

References

The weight trainer (2001) Muscle Growth part 1811: Why, And How Does A Muscle Grow and Get stronger? http://weightrainer.virtualave.net/training/growth/.html Zatsiorsky, V. (1995) Science and Practice of Strength Training. Human Kinetics. Copyright 2001 Jamie Hale



Source http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hale6.htm

[davidI]

So, as I said before...if you're training for proportion, it's completely different than training for strength and he shouldn't be doing 4-6 reps. He should be doing 8-10.

[badseed]

^^ I agree 100%. If your training for hypertrophy, 8-10 reps is the way to go. This is a very well known fact in the fitness industry. 4-6 reps is more of a strength focus, not to say you won't gain mass but definety not as effectively as going 8-10.

I also agree with wildcat. Eccentric (lengthening) motion is just as important as concentric (shortening). Lowering the weight rapidly during a bench press is like only gaining from half the exerice.

[Skyline_Addict]

i have a good torso, but have really skinny arms, biceps are ok, but the part of the arm below the elbow is really small and scrawny! tiny wrists, if you may. i need to start working out, and I suppose that I should just gain about 7-10 pounds in general (at 152 now, 5"10 inches)

[ble]

Originally posted by davidI
So, as I said before...if you're training for proportion, it's completely different than training for strength and he shouldn't be doing 4-6 reps. He should be doing 8-10.

After reading the article you had posted on strenght and size, not once did I see anything pertaining to getting big with 8-10 reps. I did however see something about 5 reps.


Originally posted by davidI
Studies have shown an intense set of 5 reps involves more fibers than an intense set of 1rep.

Its weird how it doesn't say 8 or 10 but 5.

From my experience when I do 4-6 reps, I know that my set will be short and intense. I generate far more mental intensity, muscle contractions and maximum force than doing higher reps.

When I start and end with heavy reps, i use the same amount of force throughout my entire set. If I were to do 8-10 with the same amount of force, the first 4 would be a waist of energy, simply because it would be too light.

Doing 8-10 reps fatiques the muscles which really doesn't help when you want to get stronger and bigger. Doing 4-6 intense reps on the other hand overloads the muscles efficiently thus creating more muscle fibres to be recruited for optimum growth.

Heres what my 4week dumbell chest routine looks like, it took me a few months to lift what i'm lifting now but I can say I've gotten bigger and stronger with this method than when I was doing 8-10.

When I execute this routine, I go slow and down all the way until the dumbells touch my chest.

Warm up
50lbs X 12
50lbs X 10
80lbs X 8
100lbs X 1

Workout
Incline
110lbs X 6
110lbs X 6
120lbs X 6

Flat Bench
110lbs X 6
110lbs X 6
120lbs X 6

Weighted Dips
3 plates strapped on
6reps X 2

[r7]

good #'s for your DB incline!

I train chest in 4-8 reps aswell, usually around 6. Depends on the day though. I do train singles and triples aswell.

Stick to DB presses, play with your rep range. Try higher reps for a while, and try lower reps for a while. Gotta figure out what works for you.

Some people just have a lacking chest geneticly.

[calgarygts]

Hypertrophy, or training for size is 8-10 reps, even as high as 12. 6 and under is for power. Read a book, talk to athletic coaches, talk to bodybuilders, and they'll all say the same thing. Ble, try lifting for 8-10 reps and see what happens.