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View Full Version : toms scoop?



shay
02-06-2005, 03:10 AM
hey every one i bought a toms scoop for my car u all know the one i think. well any way i know it dosnt fit right now and needs moding and i was wondering of the guys who have thim where i should take it to get it done what body shop dose a good job??

dj_Twin_turbo
02-06-2005, 03:20 PM
I'd reccommend blocking off the bottom of the scoop so that the air that it picks up and sends to the engine compartment doesn't create turbulence with the air flow Toyota designed.

Redlyne_mr2
02-06-2005, 07:03 PM
The tom's scoop is useless man, Id throw it up on ebay.

dj_Twin_turbo
02-06-2005, 11:10 PM
Well, that's basically what I was saying... but if he likes the look, at least make it so that its not reverse-functional :)



Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
The tom's scoop is useless man, Id throw it up on ebay.

shay
02-07-2005, 12:56 AM
ok i will do that but i may not even put it on if i cant find a place to do it.
will the air it really pick up mess up anything?

dj_Twin_turbo
02-07-2005, 11:49 AM
The MR2 is designed so that a low pressure zone is created behind the rear windshield to help the air flow from under the car up through the engine lid. This is the air flow that helps cool the engine bay, and the reason for the stock routing of the intake. If you put a Tom's scopp on you start to fight this air flow, and disrupt the design Toyota worked hard to create.



Originally posted by shay
ok i will do that but i may not even put it on if i cant find a place to do it.
will the air it really pick up mess up anything?

jvillain
02-07-2005, 10:48 PM
The tom's scoop is useless man, Id throw it up on ebay.

:werd:

Ashkente
02-08-2005, 12:08 AM
I'm so glad people are realizing that those scoops are retarded...they look terrible (opinion, yeah..whatever), and disrupt airflow in a major way...in terms of aerodynamics and cooling. Down with roof scoops! :thumbsup:

Eb0la11
03-03-2005, 09:46 AM
I thought they looked pretty cool, didnt know that they hurt the car more than they helped it, thanks for the info:)

91tomstwo
03-03-2005, 04:01 PM
Has anyone really proven that they "Disrupt Airflow"??? All I've heard is "well, someone said this and another person said that...."

Does anyone have any evidence?

dj_Twin_turbo
03-03-2005, 04:11 PM
Well, it sure as hall can't help. It's sort of similar to pissing upstream in the river. A little flow isn't going to over power the stong one, but it still sucks.


Originally posted by 91tomstwo
Has anyone really proven that they "Disrupt Airflow"??? All I've heard is "well, someone said this and another person said that...."

Does anyone have any evidence?

91tomstwo
03-07-2005, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by dj_Twin_turbo
Well, it sure as hall can't help. It's sort of similar to pissing upstream in the river. A little flow isn't going to over power the stong one, but it still sucks.



I have no idea what you're talking about??? What "little flow" overpowering the strong one??? I would imagine the design is similar to the F1 cars since they also have an intake hole above the driver.

Ek9Max
03-07-2005, 12:07 PM
Shay. You car looks like ass. Who built that car???

You should part it out. :)

BerserkerCatSplat
03-07-2005, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by 91tomstwo


I have no idea what you're talking about??? What "little flow" overpowering the strong one??? I would imagine the design is similar to the F1 cars since they also have an intake hole above the driver.




Originally posted by dj_Twin_turbo
The MR2 is designed so that a low pressure zone is created behind the rear windshield to help the air flow from under the car up through the engine lid. This is the air flow that helps cool the engine bay, and the reason for the stock routing of the intake. If you put a Tom's scopp on you start to fight this air flow, and disrupt the design Toyota worked hard to create.

TRDan
03-08-2005, 07:17 AM
Wasn't the Toms scoop initially made for the NA MK2? :dunno:

91tomstwo
03-12-2005, 06:37 PM
The MR2 is designed so that a low pressure zone is created behind the rear windshield to help the air flow from under the car up through the engine lid. This is the air flow that helps cool the engine bay, and the reason for the stock routing of the intake. If you put a Tom's scopp on you start to fight this air flow, and disrupt the design Toyota worked hard to create

I guess there are a few things I want to point out as I think there is a misconception/misunderstanding of the toms scoop.

1. Agreed. I do believe the toms scoop will have an effect on the air flow that Toyota may have designed.

2. No one has really proven that the toms scoop is "bad" for the car. For example, I've never heard of anyone saying that they installed the toms scoop and the under hood temps have increased.

3. I think a lot of people blow the toms scoop thing out of proportion. Lets just pretend that an MR2 Turbo is completely in stock form except that the user put in a K&N or some other aftermarket air filter
(which almost every MR2 owner has done). This results in slightly relocating the MAF and completely removing the airbox. don't you think this is going to have an even more negative effect on Toyota's airflow design. I'm not talking about the intake airflow but rather the same negative airflow design that a lot of people are talking about with regards to having a toms scoop. Basically what I'm saying is that any type of "physical" modifcation to the engine bay will result in some sort of airflow change that toyota designed.

What bugs me the most is that some MR2 newbies will just spit out "Yeah dude, the toms scoop is bad for your car" and yet they only say that because they read that in one of the forums and they think they understand the whole airflow desing.

Don't get me wrong. It quite possibly may be that the Toms Scoop is bad for the MR2 turbo. All I'm saying is that no one has really proven anything and yet, a tonne of people are saying that it bad. That's my two cents.

TRDan
03-12-2005, 10:11 PM
A buddy of mine is a smoker and he didn't put or the scoop didn't have the mesh and what it did was, when he flicked the cigarette butts out the window, sometimes the butts would end up stuck to his air intake (though this doesn't really answer your question)

dj_Twin_turbo
03-13-2005, 03:10 AM
I think you're purely speculating about the F1 car, just because something appears similar doesn't mean that it acts in the same way. The underside of an F1 car is designed to cause vacuum to hold the car to the road, not for air to flow up through the engine bay.


Originally posted by 91tomstwo

I have no idea what you're talking about??? What "little flow" overpowering the strong one??? I would imagine the design is similar to the F1 cars since they also have an intake hole above the driver.

The Tom's Scoop was designed for use with the 2.0L 3SGE NA engine in conjuntion with a Tom's airbox to make it functional.


Originally posted by TRDan
Wasn't the Toms scoop initially made for the NA MK2? :dunno:



I'm not sure that anyone has ever measured the difference in relocating the MAF may cause either. You are right, there are other things that people do to their car that may actually hinder the performance of the vehicle.

My point is that if you are buying the Tom's scoop for performance reasons you will get absolutely no gain from it on a North American car without modification of the intake system.

I think there are more "newbies" out there thinking that the Tom's scoop is performance enhancing, than ones that agree with the fairly substansial evidence that without the intake being modified on a 3SGTE or 5SFE or the appropriate Tom's parts used on a 3SGE, the scoop is of no value, besides - to some - aesthetics.


Originally posted by 91tomstwo


3. I think a lot of people blow the toms scoop thing out of proportion. Lets just pretend that an MR2 Turbo is completely in stock form except that the user put in a K&N or some other aftermarket air filter
(which almost every MR2 owner has done). This results in slightly relocating the MAF and completely removing the airbox. don't you think this is going to have an even more negative effect on Toyota's airflow design. I'm not talking about the intake airflow but rather the same negative airflow design that a lot of people are talking about with regards to having a toms scoop. Basically what I'm saying is that any type of "physical" modifcation to the engine bay will result in some sort of airflow change that toyota designed.

What bugs me the most is that some MR2 newbies will just spit out "Yeah dude, the toms scoop is bad for your car" and yet they only say that because they read that in one of the forums and they think they understand the whole airflow desing.

Don't get me wrong. It quite possibly may be that the Toms Scoop is bad for the MR2 turbo. All I'm saying is that no one has really proven anything and yet, a tonne of people are saying that it bad. That's my two cents.



I've got a feeling that you may be slightly sensitve to this subject for reasons tied to your username ;)

girlRACER
03-13-2005, 10:01 PM
I installed Puller fans on my engine lid and I measured a huge drop in engine bay temps. Notice I said that they were puller fans as they PULL the air out of the engine bay. The tom's scoop PUSHES the air into the engine bay which is highly ineffective and yes as mention the Tom's scoop was made to work with the tom's airbox on an NA. There are very very few mr2 newbies on this board so all the information you read here is correct.

BTW this is Redlyne

dj_Twin_turbo
03-13-2005, 11:30 PM
Redlyne...

I would guess that you measured engine bay temperatures with the fans on and off, while the car was still... right ?

I'd be interesting to find out the difference with the car running down the freeway at 110-120 km/h with the fans on, and with them removed, to allow the normal airflow to occur.

I'm willing to bet that the difference isn't quite as high !

91tomstwo
03-14-2005, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by girlRACER
I installed Puller fans on my engine lid and I measured a huge drop in engine bay temps. Notice I said that they were puller fans as they PULL the air out of the engine bay. The tom's scoop PUSHES the air into the engine bay which is highly ineffective and yes as mention the Tom's scoop was made to work with the tom's airbox on an NA. There are very very few mr2 newbies on this board so all the information you read here is correct.

BTW this is Redlyne

Agreed, puller fans should work as that is what I believe Toyota had designed (push air out of the top engine lid). All you're doing is helping force the air out by adding fans.

That is very different than what we are discussing here. Like I said before, I'm neither for or against the toms scoop. For performance reasons, I think it absolutely does NOTHING. however, it will take a lot more than someone on the board say that it hinders performance without any proof.

I (IMHO) like the looks of the toms scoop (it came with the car when I bought it) and I wouldn't take it off because:

1. I (personally) like the design
2. I don't have any over heating issues
3. I don't notice any negative effects.

If points 2 and 3 occured, that thing would come off faster than I can say toms scoop :)

Anyhow, I don't want to argue about this, I just thought it was interesting to hear what people have to say from all angles.

One thing that I'm going to point out though is that not one person has come back with any proof that the toms scoop hinders performance air flow. It's similar to me saying that "my special - one off" K&N air filter gave me 30 hp however, I haven't dynoed the car yet but trust me..............It's POWERFUL :)

Redlyne_mr2
03-14-2005, 07:17 PM
Sounds like we all have some testing to do this summer. I understand what youre saying 91tomstwo. We'll have to set up some basic constant factors to ensure proper results.

91tomstwo
03-15-2005, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Sounds like we all have some testing to do this summer. I understand what youre saying 91tomstwo. We'll have to set up some basic constant factors to ensure proper results.

Wicked!!! We're moving in the right directions. I would be interested in seeing the results of the test this summer.

My prediction:
- no negative effects (i.e. engine temp does not increase after installing toms scoop.

- possibly cooler under hood engine temps due to the extra air that is being forced into the engine bay.


......but we'll have to wait and see :)

-kl

dj_Twin_turbo
03-15-2005, 11:31 AM
Also, devise a test that shows the airflow around the intake with a scoop and without. Maybe little strings taped in a bunch of places and a small camera :)

Redlyne_mr2
03-15-2005, 08:07 PM
Haha this is getting hardcore.

MR.TWO
03-22-2005, 07:25 PM
i have a supercharged mr2 mk1 with the hood that sticks out does this airflow apply with my car ???

dj_Twin_turbo
03-23-2005, 01:59 AM
Yep !

Same airflow.

Rule of thumb is: If Toyota made it that way, don't change it ;)


Originally posted by MR.TWO
i have a supercharged mr2 mk1 with the hood that sticks out does this airflow apply with my car ???

MR.TWO
03-23-2005, 05:20 PM
you guys want some facts well i found some in 1987 ruff took a 911 turbo and turned it into the ruff ctr yellow bird. one of the mods on the car were side vents. thats why now 911 turbos come with side intakes. the air flow from underneath the car is the same as the mr2 but the ctr yb also had air flow coming from the top of the engine, this caused mass amounts of pressure in the engine bay because of this the car was able to produce more horse power. the pressure was so high that the side intakes turned into side out takes. now an mr2 has side intake and if the toms scoop were to be put on would it creat pressure in the engine bay.

MR.TWO
03-23-2005, 05:25 PM
oh ya one more thing i took a close look at my hood and the vents are pointed toward the front of the vehicle. so its pushing air in through the top.

91tomstwo
03-23-2005, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by MR.TWO
you guys want some facts well i found some in 1987 ruff took a 911 turbo and turned it into the ruff ctr yellow bird. one of the mods on the car were side vents. thats why now 911 turbos come with side intakes. the air flow from underneath the car is the same as the mr2 but the ctr yb also had air flow coming from the top of the engine, this caused mass amounts of pressure in the engine bay because of this the car was able to produce more horse power. the pressure was so high that the side intakes turned into side out takes. now an mr2 has side intake and if the toms scoop were to be put on would it creat pressure in the engine bay.

Well, that is what we are trying to clarify. Your statement above would suggest that having a Toms scoop will yield power gains. The most common statement is that the Toms scoop disrupts airflow as the MR2 was designed to take in air through the side vents and push it out through the top engine lid thus having a negative effect on engine heat dissipation.

My arguement is that having a Toms scoop installed on an MR2 is going to yield such minimal change (either positive or negative) that no one is ever going to notice a performance increase or decrease.

In my opinion, the Toms scoop is more of an aesthetic thing more than anything. So, if you like the way it looks then put one on otherwise leave it stock.

Redlyne_mr2
03-24-2005, 08:43 AM
You cant really compare an mr2 to a 911, nor can you even compare an mk1 to an mk2. I understand what youre saying. On the 911s those intakes are mainly for the IC as it sits on top of the engine. I think weve all come to an agreement that the scoops are for looks only.

jvillain
03-24-2005, 06:10 PM
Got my vote.