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Tyler883
02-08-2005, 08:32 PM
Implementation!

You can read about a new diet. You can completely understand the new diet. You can even try it for awhile, and lose wieght.....but why does it become another failed dieting attempt?

Because you failed to implement it!

Until you can translate the diet into something that is completely natural and easy for you to practise, you have failed to implement it into your life.

IMO, many great diets suffer from a poor success rate because the people that try to follow it never learn to implement change into their diet.

The next time a great book comes out, save your money and don't buy it! If you've failed at a diet before, you've got bigger problems than you think. My advice is to start looking for ways to make any change become permanent....when you can do this, then go crazy with the latest diet, it'll do you some good.

just my 2 cents worth

regards
Tyler

hockeybronx
02-08-2005, 09:51 PM
I'll put it plain and simple:

Eating healthy foods will not increase your metabolic rates enough to turn your body into a fat burning machine. You need to be getting at least 30 minutes of exercise every single day to raise your metabolic rate, build muscle, and in the process burn fat.

The simple truth is that people NEED to be following something. It's not enough for them to say "I'm just living healthy", they need to be "following Atkins", or "following the Abs diet".

The parameters to be healthy are the same as they were 50 years ago:

- exercise regularily
- eat small frequent meals
- drink plenty of water

~Leah~
02-08-2005, 10:32 PM
Fad Diets fail because they weren't designed to be long term. So many of them are incredibly unhealthy and people do NOT receive even close to the proper/recommended daily intake of nutrients. The best 'diet' is to practice a healthy lifestyle, eating food from all food groups, and recognizing correct serving sizes, along with physical activity.

badseed
02-09-2005, 12:27 AM
^^ couldn't agree more:thumbsup:

Health & fitness is a lifestyle.

Tyler883
02-09-2005, 12:25 PM
Most diets these days are healthy, and have a finally phase that is designed for a lifestyle change. As much as I dislike some of them, I think its not fair to call them fad diets like the fad diets of 20 years ago.

1badPT
02-09-2005, 12:31 PM
There are also some diets that are not understood by the people who don't follow them. But I agree, variety and healthy choices are key - and paired up with physical activity you have a healthy lifestyle.

sputnik
02-09-2005, 01:49 PM
Diets fail because they are not "habit forming". Most diets are so horrible that they end up just creating huge cravings for the "taboo foods" so when people get off their diet they congratulate themselves by eating garbage for weeks afterwards. Many people that diet often weigh more 6 months after the diet than before they even started dieting.

The main issue though is that most people arent willing to put the time into losing weight slowly and naturally (by simply consuming less calories). Everyone wants to drop "30 lbs in 30 days" instead of dropping a pound or two per week. When you lose pounds slowly you are able to drop the "dieting" and "boot camp" mentalities and still enjoy a night out with wings and beer and only have to go to the gym 3-4 times a week. In the end you make lifestyle changes that are gradual and eventually become part of your regular routine.

Short term dieting sucks. Make long term lifestyle changes and be patient with your progress and it will be far more rewarding.

JAYMEZ
02-09-2005, 04:08 PM
^^^ I think you hit it right on the nose. :thumbsup:

~Leah~
02-10-2005, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by Tyler883
Most diets these days are healthy, and have a finally phase that is designed for a lifestyle change. As much as I dislike some of them, I think its not fair to call them fad diets like the fad diets of 20 years ago.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Diets these days are just as unhealthy, if not more, than in the past. Take the Atkin's diet for example. You're body naturally needs more carbs than you are "allowed" to consume on that diet. You also aren't receiving the proper vitamins and minerals as I mentioned before. Sure you lose weight fast, but you [email protected] your body up BIG time in the process. The body wasn't meant to lose weight that fast.... it's not a healthy thing!! Anyway.... just wanted to say that I COMPLETELY 100% disagree with this comment. "Diets" are never healthy. Stick to serving sizes and eat from all food groups and practice a healthy active lifestyle... then you're good to go!

1badPT
02-10-2005, 12:18 PM
I disagree with that - Atkins is healthy even though it doesn't follow the food pyramid of the Canada Food guide. A properly implemented Atkins diet is still rich in vitamins and nutrients, but you are trading high carb vegetables for low carb ones. Potatoes are out, but tomatoes are in. Rice would be bad but cucumbers are good. and so on. The Atkins diet is portrayed as a meat only diet and that couldn't be further from the truth - sure there are people out there that eat only meat and claim they are on the Atkins diet, but the actual Atkins diet does still provide you with the nutrients you need, just carbs are reduced and proteins are increased. Your body can create carbs from proteins only if it needs them. The Atkins diet is probably one of the most misunderstood diets out there. Properly followed however, it is a healthy diet that can be followed for life.

JeremyD
02-10-2005, 01:07 PM
How does the body convert protein into carbs?

I have read in a number of sources that the body needs at least 20% carbs for the nervous system to function properly. Based on a 2000 cal a day diet this is 100g of carbs. which is double I think of what atkins allows.

Aktins is however moving in the right direction in teaching you how to make it a life long plan. The other fad diets are worth less than the paper they are printed on.

I wish they could come up with another term for dieting. I hate talking about my diet as the word has so many negative connotations to it.

1badPT
02-10-2005, 01:13 PM
For conversion of a protein to a carbohydrate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbohydrate

read starting at Nutrition.

Proteins are very similar to carbohydrates except for the fact that they also have nitrogen. You body essentially strips off the nitrogen to convert it to a carb. When your body does a lot of these conversions, you have to be careful to drink a lot of water to flush out the byproduct of increased nitrogen in your body (ammonia).

Tyler883
02-10-2005, 01:48 PM
Atkins, the man, said he probably eats alot more garden vegetables than the average person. This is where the vitamins and minerals come from.

Most critiques of the atkins diet confuse the difference between ketosis and keto-acidosis(sorry about the spelling).

Ketosis happens when you starve your body of carbs. You body producing ketones.

Keto-acidosis is when a diabetic's blood glucose is dangerously high,.....and it is often diagnosed by detecting ketones.

A big difference.

sputnik
02-10-2005, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by 1badPT
I disagree with that - Atkins is healthy even though it doesn't follow the food pyramid of the Canada Food guide. A properly implemented Atkins diet is still rich in vitamins and nutrients, but you are trading high carb vegetables for low carb ones. Potatoes are out, but tomatoes are in. Rice would be bad but cucumbers are good. and so on. The Atkins diet is portrayed as a meat only diet and that couldn't be further from the truth - sure there are people out there that eat only meat and claim they are on the Atkins diet, but the actual Atkins diet does still provide you with the nutrients you need, just carbs are reduced and proteins are increased. Your body can create carbs from proteins only if it needs them. The Atkins diet is probably one of the most misunderstood diets out there. Properly followed however, it is a healthy diet that can be followed for life.

Typical Atkins brainwashing.

How can one even begin to believe that replacing a potato with a tomato be an equivalent substitute? Or rice with cucumbers? Cucumbers and tomatoes are 80% water and lack the fibre and many nutrients that a potato or a cup of rice has. Even the lack of milk should raise some red flags as to whether or not Atkins is healthy. Can you really say that eating 2 steaks to get the same protien as a couple of glasses of skim milk a trade off?

:nut:

The Atkins diet works for the simple reason that it is a low calorie diet, unfortunately it can also be quite high in cholesterol and fat. To say that starches are bad is a horrible theory and can lead to digestive problems. In fact, many Atkins books even admit that in the first couple of weeks you might get constipated, have bad gas or chronic bad breath.

Low calorie diets are very acheivable even when consuming carbohydrates at close to half of your diet. Pasta, rice and breads are actually quite low in calories and like with everything should be consumed in moderation. Your system is made to process carbohydrates at an efficient rate (given a certain level of physical activity) and good carbohydrates (bad being white flour and refined sugars) also regulate your blood pressure, insulin levels and make sure your digestive system stays functioning. Complex carbohydrates also keep your energy levels higher and allow for more output physically.

In the end it comes to a simple formula for weight loss.

if (calories in < calories burned)
then (weight loss);
else (weight gain);

If you choose a diet that is high in fat and cholesterol and does not provide you with adequate energy to workout or play any sports. That is your choice.

Personally, I would sooner stick with a "diet" that will result in eating healthy well balanced meals every day for the rest of my life. Ensuring that I get all of the vitamins and minerals to keep my body healthy and functioning properly. My justification is that back in the 50s-60s people used the "Canada Food Guide" and many people were quite healthy. The problem these days is that most people ignore that and put on huge amounts of weight. And in todays culture everything must be done NOW so people look for the quickest way to drop 20 lbs instead of going back to the basics of simple healthy eating and regular exercise. Even if it does damage their liver, heart and digestive systems in the process.

1badPT
02-10-2005, 02:49 PM
^^I just gave examples that there are vegetables that you do indeed eat on the Atkins diet. You've criticized the diet based on things that everyone who doesn't understand (or has even read) the Atkins diet, has said. You are basing your opinions on what you've been told about the diet instead of the actual diet itself. Your whole post is grossly misinformed so there's little point in even discussing it. You don't like Atkins, fine. My point is that it is indeed healthy and if you want to bring up some valid points about the plan, I'll be glad to discuss that. If all you have is the points of the anti-Atkins camp brainwashing campaign, then there's nothing further to discuss.

Tyler883
02-10-2005, 03:32 PM
There are essential protiens, fats, vitamins, minerals, and fiber.

There aren't essential carbs.

Carbs are a fuel that you iether burn or store.

When I go into calorie deficit mode, I ussually cut the carbs from my diet( and I exercise).

Just because this sounds like the atkins diet doesn't make it so. I still eat carbs. (So do atkins dieters, BTW) Carbs are not exclusive to pasta, rice and potatoes. In fact, except for the first few weeks on the atkins diet, pasta rice and potatoes are allowed in small quantities.

The atkins diet is not the same diet that received criticism in the 1970s. Sure, carbs are restricted, but not illiminated.

Tyler883
02-10-2005, 03:36 PM
BTW, canada food guide has NEVER reccomended entire portions of your meal coming from starcy foods. In reality, an atkins dieter is closer to the canada food guide than the average canadian. Sad, but true.

sputnik
02-10-2005, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Tyler883
BTW, canada food guide has NEVER reccomended entire portions of your meal coming from starcy foods. In reality, an atkins dieter is closer to the canada food guide than the average canadian. Sad, but true.

What's sad but true is the fact that you would say that without even taking a look at the Canada Food Guide. 5-12 servings of grains is what it calls for. HARDLY close to atkins which calls for "half of one" and within that half you cant eat any fruits, vegetables like potatoes and carrots and dont even think about drinking any milk.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpfb-dgpsa/onpp-bppn/food_guide_rainbow_e.html

EDIT:

Here is the USDA Food Guide. Its far more detailed than the Canadian version.

http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/food/food-pyramid/main.htm

sputnik
02-10-2005, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by 1badPT
^^I just gave examples that there are vegetables that you do indeed eat on the Atkins diet. You've criticized the diet based on things that everyone who doesn't understand (or has even read) the Atkins diet, has said. You are basing your opinions on what you've been told about the diet instead of the actual diet itself. Your whole post is grossly misinformed so there's little point in even discussing it. You don't like Atkins, fine. My point is that it is indeed healthy and if you want to bring up some valid points about the plan, I'll be glad to discuss that. If all you have is the points of the anti-Atkins camp brainwashing campaign, then there's nothing further to discuss.

My sister has been on Atkins for quite sometime and she did lose weight, and I have a number of friends that have used it before. I also picked up a copy of Atkins For Life and read it cover to cover. Then I spoke to a dietician friend of mine, my family doctor, a nutitionist and my personal trainer at the gym and ALL of them said that Atkins is a bad idea for the reasons that I stated earlier.

Please enlighten me (and the rest of us) as to why you think that the Atkins diet is the best diet without using the "if you weigh less you are healthier" argument.

1badPT
02-10-2005, 04:28 PM
?? That isn't what Atkins is about? And where did I say it was the best? I said its healthy. You're making the induction period sound like the whole diet-the induction period lasts two weeks. After the induction period the diet is well rounded and is a diet that can be followed for life. Dieticians are taught based on established knowledge about the food pyramid and since the Atkins diet contravenes the food pyramid, of course it seems wrong to them. If you look at it from a nutrionist's perspective, its perfectly fine because of the reasons I mentioned earlier - your body will convert proteins to carbs as it needs it. Do you realize that there are parts of the world where the cuisine contains almost no carbs and yet the people are healthy - how is that possible if the Atkin's diet is so horrible? What about other members of the primate family which eat strictly carnivorous diets and have similar physiology when comparing digestive systems?

Its true when you increase proteins and reduce carbs there are risks that you have to account for - increased ammonia in the blood, but that's easily taken care of by drinking more water. There are risks associated with high carb diets as well.

Tyler883
02-10-2005, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by 1badPT
?? There are risks associated with high carb diets as well.

like keto-acidosis if you become insulin insensitive:burnout:

~Leah~
02-10-2005, 06:32 PM
I still completely disagree with the statement that the Atkin's diet is healthy, and this is coming from an educated point of view on it.... and obviously Sputnik's point of view is also educated considering he read it cover to cover and asked some very knowledgeable people about it. It is NOT a healthy diet. And no, it's not just the induction period. All stages of the diet are bad... then of course people start eating carbs again and gain weight back, then start all over again, continuously messing up their bodies. Take it from health professionals.... there has been a lot of research done on this diet.

YCB
02-10-2005, 06:41 PM
I agree with Leah, I have a small store, which I sell burgers, fries etc. I have a few people come to my store and ask if we have any atkin friendly meals. I'm like WTF.. uhh no.. then they decide to make their own meals.. Example, this one lady comes and gets 5 slices of bacon, 4 eggs made like and omelet with cheese, and I think some kind of diet pop. Honestly, I think 2 pieces of toast would be more healthier than that, but you know.. the carb thing...

Key to diet, is I think consistency. You can't eat healthy for like 2 months, then just because you lost some weight, you can go back to your old eating habits. Having a big mac meal once a week is ok too, just as long as you are physically active. As everyone knows you get fat by taking in more calories than you burn. If you are able to burn a big mac meal off, why not having it once every 1 or 2 weeks. Diet and excersise go like beyond.ca and me. Can't have one or the other must have BOTH hahaha.

Some people are overweight due to genetics or some sort of disorder, and thats a whole different story.

1badPT
02-10-2005, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by ~Leah~
I still completely disagree with the statement that the Atkin's diet is healthy, and this is coming from an educated point of view on it.... and obviously Sputnik's point of view is also educated considering he read it cover to cover and asked some very knowledgeable people about it. It is NOT a healthy diet. And no, it's not just the induction period. All stages of the diet are bad... then of course people start eating carbs again and gain weight back, then start all over again, continuously messing up their bodies. Take it from health professionals.... there has been a lot of research done on this diet.

The fact of the matter is you find professionals in the industry on both sides of this arguement. He says he has a few friends that doesn't like the diet either - that proves nothing. I know professionals too who give the diet a thumbs up.

Once you get past the induction period of the diet, the diet is nutrionally complete, whats different compared to other diets is carbs are reduced, and proteins are increased.

The only thing that can be said absolutely about the Atkins diet is that its long term effects are not known. No one can conclusively say if it's safe or not because its simply not known. What is known is obesity is not healthy. High carb diets also have their risks.

I like this link because it summarizes the pros and cons of the diet objectively. I believe it should be up to the individual to decide for themselves if its right for them or not, but they should base their decision on factual information.

http://dietsnutrition.allinfoabout.com/features/atkins.html

Tyler883
02-10-2005, 07:29 PM
5 slices of bacon+4 med whole eggs+1 oz cheddar cheese( you never gave me complete details so I had to guess on some)

Total:

593 Calories
54.5 grams of protien
36.8 grams of fat

Hmmm...not bad! cut the bacon down to 1 slice ,Add an apple, and or salad and it would be even better.

Thats about a little more protien thatn I ussually go for. And, about twice the fat, too.

( My target is 550 calories, 34g protien, 14 g fat, bqalance of calories from a healthy source of carbs....every 4-5 hours)

YCB
02-10-2005, 08:01 PM
hahah don't forget all the sodium from the bacon.. but remember the lady that ordered this was at least 250lbs.. hahah I don't think she needs that much (extra) fat haa

sputnik
02-11-2005, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by 1badPT
your body will convert proteins to carbs as it needs it

Personally I would rather have my body burn a couple slices of toast for energy than rely on protiens. If you rely solely on protiens for energy you can end up burning away lean muscle tissue.

At the end of the day. The purpose for the Atkins diet is to lose weight and not promote a healthy long term lifestyle (low fat, low sodium). People in the 21st century are so obsessed with weight loss that it is getting to the point where people would cut off a leg to lose 50 lbs. Why anyone would risk an increase in blood pressure and cholesterol for the sake of losing a few lbs is beyond me.

Instead the focus should not be weight loss but living a healthy well balanced life style that prevents disease and promotes and active lifestyle. If that is achieved, weight loss will follow in step.

1badPT
02-11-2005, 12:43 PM
Your point about burning lean muscle tissue is absolutely true for someone eating a traditional diet, however on an Atkins diet, dietary protein is readily available. This is why the diet is so misunderstood because people who are somehow opposed to the diet try to apply "what if" scenarios based on a traditional diet(ie a shortage of protein).

Also the point about blood pressure is a moot point because on Atkins you increase your water intake which helps flush out ammonia and leeches sodium, in addition to keeping blood "light" so blood pressure doesn't go up. People on Atkins do have increases in cholesterol - that's true, but its the good cholesterol so again these are things that on first glance seem bad, but only if you apply them to a traditional diet scenario. Atkins has its own set of rules and risks and they are different from traditional diets.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that a healthy lifestyle is paramount. For someone who is obese however, first and foremost is losing the weight and traditional diets don't work for everyone, so Atkins is one more tool available for people to use. Short term it works and short term its fine. For the long term, its anyone's guess as to how safe Atkins is. But obesity has definite risks - if a person can't stay lean any other way I would personally stay on the Atkins diet rather than taking the more definite risk of becoming obese again.

Tyler883
02-11-2005, 03:30 PM
What if we do some comparisons...

how about we compare egg whites to a baked potato? They are both pretty healthy foods. If you eat too much of either one, it is possible to take in too much calories. However, too much of the potato will spike your insulin and encourage the body to store fat.

Now, lets compare a big fatty steak to a similar quantity of french fries. Neither one of these foods are good compared to an atkins guy on tuna, or an average guy on a baked potato, right?

My point is: you keep trying to paint a picture oif atkins people eating big fatty steaks, and you are trying to paint another picture of the average person eating a baked potato.

But the reality is, the french frie crowd could benefit a great deal by switching to steak on the short term, and then switch to the last phase of the atkins diet, which is designed for long term lifestyle change.

sputnik
02-11-2005, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Tyler883
What if we do some comparisons...

how about we compare egg whites to a baked potato? They are both pretty healthy foods. If you eat too much of either one, it is possible to take in too much calories. However, too much of the potato will spike your insulin and encourage the body to store fat.

Now, lets compare a big fatty steak to a similar quantity of french fries. Neither one of these foods are good compared to an atkins guy on tuna, or an average guy on a baked potato, right?

My point is: you keep trying to paint a picture oif atkins people eating big fatty steaks, and you are trying to paint another picture of the average person eating a baked potato.

But the reality is, the french frie crowd could benefit a great deal by switching to steak on the short term, and then switch to the last phase of the atkins diet, which is designed for long term lifestyle change.

Its about balance. You used such poor examples because Atkins doesnt tell you to eat egg whites... they say eat eggs with a side of bacon, ham and/or sausages, and in the same breath they tell you that whole grain toast and milk are bad. Just take a look at any "Atkins approved" breakfasts at restaurants. The Canada/USDA food guides are very supportive of egg whites and tuna because they are high in protien and low in fat. They dont tell you to just eat potatoes, they recommend a balance between both.

Its not the consumption of fat and cholesterol that is bad about Atkins, because frankly it can be avoided if you are disciplined. However its the lack of insoluble fibre and many other vitamins and minerals that is the real problem.

Its always been about balance.

Tyler883
02-11-2005, 04:06 PM
You don't get much fiber from a grain that has been crushed to a fine powder then turned into a bread. Read what the south beach diet has to say about white bread, and the glycemic index that is widely used by diabetics worlwide.

I'll take my chances with carrots, celery, apples, etc. At least they haven't been "pre-chewed" for me by some machine.

sputnik
02-11-2005, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Tyler883
You don't get much fiber from a grain that has been crushed to a fine powder then turned into a bread. Read what the south beach diet has to say about white bread, and the glycemic index that is widely used by diabetics worlwide.

I'll take my chances with carrots, celery, apples, etc. At least they haven't been &quot;pre-chewed&quot; for me by some machine.

Did I say white bread? I said whole grain bread.

Fibre is the non-digestible part of foods. There are two types of fibre: soluble and insoluble. In terms of healthy living, we need to include both forms of fibre in our diet.

Soluble fibre is the type of fibre found in oat bran, oatmeal, legumes and fruit. As soluble fibre moves through the digestive system it absorbs water and waste materials to help move them out of our bodies. Because of its' ability to do this, soluble fibre has been shown to lower blood cholesterol and can be helpful in controlling blood sugar levels. Bacteria in our digestive tract breaks down soluble fibre, especially that found in dried peas, lentils and beans.

Insoluble fibre is the type of fibre found in wheat bran, whole grain breads, cereals and the edible peels of fruit such as apples and pears. Insoluble fibre cannot absorb water or waste materials as it travels through our digestive tract. It's this type of fibre provides bulk to the stool. As well, insoluble fibre helps to prevent constipation and keeps you regular.

Atkins doesnt let you consume fruits or grains in a quantity to be able to properly digest food. If you are on Atkins how does one expect to stay regular? I am more familiar with GI. As a university student I worked as a cook at a summer camp for kids with Juvinille Diabetes. I know all about GI and the difference between complex carbs and simple sugars. I am also quite aware as to the effects that they have on blood sugar/insulin levels.

1badPT
02-11-2005, 04:34 PM
Saying that Atkins doesn't let you consume fruits or grains in quantity to be able to properly digest food is again a mis-informed statement. There are plenty of fruits and vegetables you can eat on the Atkins diet but grains are generally out because of the starches they contain and most grains are low in nutrients anyways. Fibre grams do not count toward your daily allowance for carbs either.

Tyler883
02-11-2005, 04:49 PM
isn't the glycemic index based on white bread? it has an index of 100. Heck, even most fruit have a lower index than white bread