Car for ~30-35

[Kirbs17]

Hey guys. Im just setting out into the market to look for a car, and I know somewhat whats out there, but not too too much. When Im done college (about a year) I'll be trading in my Jetta for something a little sportier. Im a huge fan of the 323ci bmw's, and of course 350z's, STI's, etc etc. Id like to buy used, and 35k would be the max. Any ideas?

[Skyline_Addict]

STi, hands down.

[heavyD]

My brother just picked up a 2001 Lexus G430 for just over $30K. Nice, smooth V8 power and Lexus reliability.

Personally I would choose a Honda S2000 but that's my dream.:D The 350Z, RX8, or STi (if you can get by the ugly looks) are all great cars so you should test drive them all and draw up your own conclusions.

[awd]

STi for 30-35K where? link me and I will buy it this afternoon.

[JordanLotoski]

id go with something with a lil more class, bmw or benz..but thats just me

[ZorroAMG]

The GS430 is a great car, but is passat sized, if that's what your looking for. The Lexus IS300 is more like the Jetta and 3 series if you want the reliability, sportiness and same size as the Jetta.

There is also MB C-Class (230 Kompressor) and the Audi A4 all in that size and price range.

[Orbie]

Originally posted by heavyD

Personally I would choose a Honda S2000 but that's my dream.:D The 350Z, RX8, or STi (if you can get by the ugly looks) are all great cars so you should test drive them all and draw up your own conclusions.

Just curious as to when any of those cars would go for 30-35K. Especially in a one year time frame from now. If you barter properly you may get an 04 RX-8 Full loaded in the 37K range, but STi or S2000? :rolleyes:

[heavyD]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
The GS430 is a great car, but is passat sized, if that's what your looking for. The Lexus IS300 is more like the Jetta and 3 series if you want the reliability, sportiness and same size as the Jetta.

There is also MB C-Class (230 Kompressor) and the Audi A4 all in that size and price range.

Yeah my other brother has an A4 1.8T and after sitting in it and the Lexus, my DSM's feel very crude. The nice thing about luxury cars is that you get the performance of alot of sporty cars plus interiors that are so much nicer and quieter makes daily driving so much more comfortable.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Orbie


Just curious as to when any of those cars would go for 30-35K. Especially in a one year time frame from now. If you barter properly you may get an 04 RX-8 Full loaded in the 37K range, but STi or S2000? :rolleyes:

It has to be a 2004? Where was that stated anywhere?:whocares:

[ZorroAMG]

She never said she was buying new Orbie, actually if you bothered to read her post she said "I'd like to buy used". Roll your eyes somewhere else, thanks.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
She never said she was buying new Orbie, actually if you bothered to read her post she said "I'd like to buy used". Roll your eyes somewhere else, thanks.

She???

:banghead: :rofl: :rofl:

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78352

Anyways I drove a 323 CI and a 328 CI for that matter and they can't compare to the 350Z in terms of performance. Like everyone else said go drive them and figure out which is best for you.

[Kirbs17]

HA! Thanks Aleks. Definatly a dude right here. And it doesnt have to be an 04 as previously mentioned. I really like the look of the 01 BMW 323ci's. Basic criteria is '00 and up, and under 35000.

[Orbie]

Originally posted by ZorroAMG
She never said she was buying new Orbie, actually if you bothered to read her post she said "I'd like to buy used". Roll your eyes somewhere else, thanks.

If you bothered to read my post, I never mentioned that he was buying a new car either. An 04 is not a new car, last time I checked the new MY is 05, and you can buy used 04's, which in this case is what I was talking about.

Anyways my apologies to HeavyD, 2000 S2000's do run within the range that Kirbs17 put forth and would be a nice car. In any case, I'm also looking for cars with the 30-35K range so I'll be interested to see what you come up with Kirbs. I'm also not opposed to going used but I did have my eye on the 06 Eclipse GT. Only crappy thing is I asked what they thought it would MSRP for at the Auto Show and they said 38K! however, it may still be too soon to tell for sure but just an idea. Also a used WRX would be a good deal as well IMHO.

[Kirbs17]

Yea, a non - STi WRX, say about 2003, would be a very nice car as well. This was just an inquisitive thread asking people what they thought would be an interesting, decent car for the mentioned price range. Some good ideas have come up. MIWYSHOT's car is pretty tight, but its for sale right now, and Im lookin in a year.

I went to the VW dealership today and they have an 04 Jetta GLI with the 1.8T engine sittin on the lot for 34k right now. 0 kms, 6 speed manual, recaro racing seats :drool: damn, that might be worth lookin into

[ZorroAMG]

Sorry, I just figured a username kirbs and a chick in the avatar....not my fault I mistook you for a chick.

Anyway, the GLI is a hot car...

[sputnik]

bol's 328is would have been a great car to pick up for only $19,000 ... but its sold

[Hollywood]

My quick blurb.



330ci nice car, but too low tech, not enough juice, overpriced for what you get. But handles nice, and BMW manual tranni's and clutch feel give you a sence of satisfaction.

350z nice but no back seats, kinda over played.

g35c nice car but hear complains of shotty interior until 05 model fixed shotty interior but then out of your price range.

s2000 nice car, no back seats cant really drive in winter.

Any VW, shotty build quality, low level dealership treatment, dont let the newness dazzel you.

rx8, nice car, functional back seats, can be winter driven, heard some of the new rotories consume too much oil.

A4 1.8t is now too small for new size and wieght.

A6 fells very sloppy heavy, very sharp instrementation tho.

Volvo's- All are dog shit.

Mercedes = nothing worth while in that price range.

M3 nice car for sure, maintenence schedule is a little costly. Try to find one not bagged......

Is300. Bang for your back you get what you pay for which a great car. Supercharger kits are a many, for around 6k.\

Personally my choice was gs430. 4 doors, winter drivable RWD. And it's all about the V8 love + Lexus quality. Fantastic car, met all of my expectations. Faster 1/4 mile than the 350z, g35c, and the 03 s2000. But I can see how others may say too big or not flashy enough.

[Ferrari owner]

Originally posted by Hollywood


s2000 cant really drive in winter.

Why not?

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by heavyD


Yeah my other brother has an A4 1.8T and after sitting in it and the Lexus, my DSM's feel very crude. The nice thing about luxury cars is that you get the performance of alot of sporty cars plus interiors that are so much nicer and quieter makes daily driving so much more comfortable.
Hehe try driving an ls430 . its funny, you floor it, they're no noise at all and mysteriously from somewhere you feel youreself pushing back into your seat and your speed is drastically increasing yet without any drama at all.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Ferrari owner


Why not?

Don't be stupid. It's obvious why. :banghead:

Softop + RWD + Low = not the best car for -30 out with snow.

And I know there are hardtops conv., but not many buy the hardtops.

[SteveMo600]

Buy a car for 20 or 25 grand tops and then save or invest the rest. When you're just coming out of a college, you don't really need a $35,000 car...IMO.

[Ferrari owner]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[427Hemi]

It would be stupid to though. Lots of people spin their S2000s in the dry... it's a hard car to drive. You could if you wanted to, but the cost of a 500 dollar beater is a lot less than going weeks without a car as you wait for your car to get fixed.

[awd]

02-03 WRX can be found easily for ~25K these days...

[likwid]

I heard 02-03 WRX's have bad problems with their trannys going out at around 70,000km. Any truth to this?

[awd]

Originally posted by likwid
I heard 02-03 WRX's have bad problems with their trannys going out at around 70,000km. Any truth to this?

This will start a shitstorm for sure but this my take:

02 WRX's tranny is weaker than it should be, and the problem was addressed (somewhat) by subaru for 03 and moreso for 04. That said I am at 65,000kms and mine is fine (crosses fingers) and I don't drive like a gramma but I also don't launch at every light. My powertrain warranty is covered to 100,000kms anyways so if it blows up I am good.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Ferrari owner
Don't be a shitty driver. Ton's of people winter drive their S2000.

Asshole.



??? Do you?

Did you even try to drive a softop car in -30C?

[Kirbs17]

I like the idea of investing the extra 10K, but yea, the s2000 is kinda out for me, im dont like em :dunno:

[awd]

Originally posted by Kirbs17
I like the idea of investing the extra 10K, but yea, the s2000 is kinda out for me, im dont like em :dunno:

"investing" is a bad choice of words when talking about buying a used car. :D

[Ferrari owner]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Did you even try to drive a softop car in -30C?

Why not?

[SteveMo600]

Originally posted by awd


"investing" is a bad choice of words when talking about buying a used car. :D

That's what I'm trying to say. Spending all of your money on a car is stupid because the value depreciates so quickly. Kirbs17 should spend about half of his cash on a nice decent used car and then invest the rest into something NOT CAR RELATED.

[lastprodigy]

Originally posted by SteveMo600


That's what I'm trying to say. Spending all of your money on a car is stupid because the value depreciates so quickly. Kirbs17 should spend about half of his cash on a nice decent used car and then invest the rest into something NOT CAR RELATED.


the thread is what car to buy not what to do with my money or how to make more....by your logic everyone should drive festivas and be loaded right :rolleyes:

[The_Doctor]

Originally posted by Ferrari owner
Don't be a shitty driver. Ton's of people winter drive their S2000.

Asshole.



You must remember most the folks on this board believe you have to have snow tires to drive in the winter as well.

[SteveMo600]

Originally posted by lastprodigy
the thread is what car to buy not what to do with my money or how to make more....by your logic everyone should drive festivas and be loaded right :rolleyes:

Do the math...his budget is 30-35 grand and I figured he should spend half of that on a car. That's about 15 grand. I'm pretty sure a festiva is a couple bucks less than that. I know the thread is which car to buy but some advice doesn't hurt anybody.


Originally posted by Kirbs17
I like the idea of investing the extra 10K, but yea, the s2000 is kinda out for me, im dont like em :dunno:

He even thought it was a good idea. Don't spend all of your cash on a car man, you'll regret it later on.

[tictactoe2004]

I have a 2001 VW GTI VR6, I love it, I find the interior nicer than a 3 series BMW, the blue and red look so nice together... the 2002 VR6's and up have more HP and a 6-speed, the heated leather gets so hot it burns your ass, rain sensing wipers... auto dimming rear view mirror, super nice car for the cash... I'd buy one again in a heart beat... you can get a one or two year old VR6 in either a jetta or a golf and i'm sure you'd love it after you drove it, PS, go test drive on at night... all the lights inside look cool...

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by The_Doctor


You must remember most the folks on this board believe you have to have snow tires to drive in the winter as well.

So your telling me it's safe to drive a s2000 which comes with summer only tires, no LSD and no traction control is safe doing a 100km on deerfoot to work back and forth when it's icy and/or snowy conditions on the road?

Com'on ur as stupid as cool dude ferrari driver.:banghead:

[Ferrari owner]

No, you'd need snow tires on the S2000. Asshole.



Originally posted by Hollywood


So your telling me it's safe to drive a s2000 which comes with summer only tires, no LSD and no traction control is safe doing a 100km on deerfoot to work back and forth when it's icy and/or snowy conditions on the road?

Com'on ur as stupid as cool dude ferrari driver.:banghead:

[calgary350z]

yeah and this coming from a guy who thinks his lexus is faster than a 350z and a S2000, I dont think you should be calling other people stupid because they give their feedback to topic

[NickGT]

Originally posted by Xtrema


??? Do you?

Did you even try to drive a softop car in -30C?

I have all winter.

You can hear the ice breaking and flying off. That's the only thing that reminds me I've got a soft top. Otherwise it's nice and toasty warm, and you can't tell otherwise. I don't get why people think a soft-top is bad for winter. It does the job, then in summer you can drop it :bigpimp:

[elusiv]

Originally posted by Hollywood


So your telling me it's safe to drive a s2000 which comes with summer only tires, no LSD and no traction control is safe doing a 100km on deerfoot to work back and forth when it's icy and/or snowy conditions on the road?

Com'on ur as stupid as cool dude ferrari driver.:banghead:

Yes, its safe - there's an entire forum of people in fact, who drive their s2k's through the winter with appropriate winter tires.

I believe the s2000 has an LSD.

[Kirbs17]

the 30-35k is not my entire budget. its about 75% of it. I currently own a $15000 and im looking to move up. And yes, i realize that if im going to invest in something, it should be into something NON car related. But I like where this thread is going, a lot of differing opinions are sprouting up

[The_Doctor]

Originally posted by Hollywood


So your telling me it's safe to drive a s2000 which comes with summer only tires, no LSD and no traction control is safe doing a 100km on deerfoot to work back and forth when it's icy and/or snowy conditions on the road?

Com'on ur as stupid as cool dude ferrari driver.:banghead:

You see I already drive without a LSD(which makes you less safe in slippery conditions by the way) and no traction control(except my own which is far superior), I certainly am not stupid. You may also not understand it but there are plenty of all season tires on the market that are more then enough for Calgary's weather. If you have to have winter tires then perhaps you just need to learn how to drive :dunno:

[Ferrari owner]

I agree, except where you have strictly summer tires, then when you change tires in the fall you might as well go with dedicated winter tires.

Hollywood or whatever his name is obviously doesn't have a clue how to drive.


Originally posted by The_Doctor


You see I already drive without a LSD(which makes you less safe in slippery conditions by the way) and no traction control(except my own which is far superior), I certainly am not stupid. You may also not understand it but there are plenty of all season tires on the market that are more then enough for Calgary's weather. If you have to have winter tires then perhaps you just need to learn how to drive :dunno:

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Ferrari owner
No, you'd need snow tires on the S2000. Asshole.


HAhahahaahha.

To fully explain my comment on an s2000 not being a good winter car is based on, soft top, short wheel base, low to the ground, RWD, no LSD or traction control, twitchy rear end. Can it be driven in winter WITH winter tires YES. Out of the list I posted was it the worse cadidate to be winter driven, YES. I have never seen an s2k winter driven in winter time ever so far in calgary. I see tonnes of rx8's, g35c, 350z driving in the winter.

I dont care how good of a driver you are it's impossible to drive safe in a s2k "fully stock" under full winter conditions.


Originally posted by calgary350z
yeah and this coming from a guy who thinks his lexus is faster than a 350z and a S2000, I dont think you should be calling other people stupid because they give their feedback to topic

I said in a 1/4 mile specifically. I appoligize, I guess I was off by 0.1-0.2 seconds int the 1/4 mile on the 350z and g35c, which really means nothing being so small of a difference. Here are the stats. Im sure there are other sites out there which post different times for all the vehicles below. So dont hate.

http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html.

2003 Nissan 350z 5.4 14.1
2004 Nissan 350z Roadster 5.7 14.3
2003 Infiniti G35 Coupe 5.5 14.2
1998 Lexus GS 400 5.8 14.3
2001 Lexus GS 430 5.8 14.3
2000 Honda S2000 5.5 14.2
2003 Honda S2000 6.3 14.9 (Manual)



Originally posted by The_Doctor


You see I already drive without a LSD(which makes you less safe in slippery conditions by the way) and no traction control(except my own which is far superior), I certainly am not stupid. You may also not understand it but there are plenty of all season tires on the market that are more then enough for Calgary's weather. If you have to have winter tires then perhaps you just need to learn how to drive :dunno:

You were talking stock so I was talking stock. You did not say anything about changing the tires on the s2k.

As far as the traction control thing maybe it depends on the types of traction control you have expeirienced, but the ones I have been in, no human can reproduce its computerised governing functions in a RWD format.

I wonder if you can fully explain to everyone how LSD is worse in the winter? Because I do not agree.

[The_Doctor]

Originally posted by Hollywood
You were talking stock so I was talking stock. You did not say anything about changing the tires on the s2k.

As far as the traction control thing maybe it depends on the types of traction control you have expeirienced, but the ones I have been in, no human can reproduce its computerised governing functions in a RWD format.

I wonder if you can fully explain to everyone how LSD is worse in the winter? Because I do not agree.

I fail to see where I said stock, only an idiot would try to drive in the winter with summer tires. Try this count the number of days next year that the roads are so bad you feel winter tires are needed, so far this season I'm at 5, that I felt my all seasons were out of their element.

LSD will kick the back end out sideways if you hit a slippery spot, at high speeds this is dangerous. Without the LSD one wheel will spin and will be much less likely to go sideways especially in a straight line. LSD isn't worse in the winter it is just more dangerous to the typical driver while being helpful in getting going for a stand still.

Traction control is similar to ABS in that it helps people that don't know how to drive to stay on the road.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by The_Doctor


I fail to see where I said stock, only an idiot would try to drive in the winter with summer tires.

Well you did not specisfy. you said: "You must remember most the folks on this board believe you have to have snow tires to drive in the winter as well."




Originally posted by The_Doctor


Try this count the number of days next year that the roads are so bad you feel winter tires are needed, so far this season I'm at 5, that I felt my all seasons were out of their element.

It was more than that, but this winter was a light one for sure. But maybe they guy commutes to edmonton every weekend or what ever, In the winter time usally there is a fiar bit of cold/icy/snowy days in alberta in general.


Originally posted by The_Doctor
LSD will kick the back end out sideways if you hit a slippery spot, at high speeds this is dangerous. Without the LSD one wheel will spin and will be much less likely to go sideways especially in a straight line. LSD isn't worse in the winter it is just more dangerous to the typical driver while being helpful in getting going for a stand still.

Traction control is similar to ABS in that it helps people that don't know how to drive to stay on the road.

LSD does provide benifits in the winter I fail to see it's short commings under winter conditions. One could say it's typically dangerous to drive at high speeds in winter anyways with or without LSD. I can see a problem if you have an aftermarket LSD like say the mechanical cable type 1.5way which will engage harshly and quickly but not what is stock on honda's, nissan's, subaru's etc. Take an SRT-4 for example, the advantages of having the LSD for the winter in that car will helps hands down.

For anyone else who wants to understans LSD';

The differential is a magic box containing six gears that sits in the middle of the axle, between two driven wheels. And its job is to allow those two wheels to turn at different speeds -- while still delivering power. Wheels have to be able to turn at different speeds, because when you're making a turn, the outside wheels always travel farther -- and therefore faster -- than the inside wheels.So through a cosmic meshing of gears, the differential adjusts the power that goes to the wheels. When the vehicle is going straight, each wheel is given 50 percent of the power. But as the vehicle turns and the outside wheel goes faster, the differential reduces power and velocity to the inside wheel by the exact same amount that it adds them to the outside wheel.If one of the wheels is on ice or hung up in the air, the differential sends 100 percent of the power to that spinning wheel. And if one wheel is getting 100 percent of the power from the differential, the other wheel must be getting? 0 percent! You can see how this can be a problem. If you're driving a car with two-wheel drive and one of those wheels gets stuck on ice, that's the only wheel that will get traction, so you're done for.

So what a limited slip differential does is it fixes that differential oversight. When one wheel is spinning, a set of clutches inside a limited slip differential shift some of the power to the other wheel -- so the wheel that's NOT stuck has power, too.

I have heard of poor traction control systems, so I partially agree, but not all of the suck.

[The_Doctor]

Originally posted by Hollywood


Well you did not specisfy. you said: "You must remember most the folks on this board believe you have to have snow tires to drive in the winter as well."





It was more than that, but this winter was a light one for sure. But maybe they guy commutes to edmonton every weekend or what ever, In the winter time usally there is a fiar bit of cold/icy/snowy days in alberta in general.



LSD does provide benifits in the winter I fail to see it's short commings under winter conditions. One could say it's typically dangerous to drive at high speeds in winter anyways with or without LSD. I can see a problem if you have an aftermarket LSD like say the mechanical cable type 1.5way which will engage harshly and quickly but not what is stock on honda's, nissan's, subaru's etc. Take an SRT-4 for example, the advantages of having the LSD for the winter in that car will helps hands down.

For anyone else who wants to understans LSD';

The differential is a magic box containing six gears that sits in the middle of the axle, between two driven wheels. And its job is to allow those two wheels to turn at different speeds -- while still delivering power. Wheels have to be able to turn at different speeds, because when you're making a turn, the outside wheels always travel farther -- and therefore faster -- than the inside wheels.So through a cosmic meshing of gears, the differential adjusts the power that goes to the wheels. When the vehicle is going straight, each wheel is given 50 percent of the power. But as the vehicle turns and the outside wheel goes faster, the differential reduces power and velocity to the inside wheel by the exact same amount that it adds them to the outside wheel.If one of the wheels is on ice or hung up in the air, the differential sends 100 percent of the power to that spinning wheel. And if one wheel is getting 100 percent of the power from the differential, the other wheel must be getting? 0 percent! You can see how this can be a problem. If you're driving a car with two-wheel drive and one of those wheels gets stuck on ice, that's the only wheel that will get traction, so you're done for.

So what a limited slip differential does is it fixes that differential oversight. When one wheel is spinning, a set of clutches inside a limited slip differential shift some of the power to the other wheel -- so the wheel that's NOT stuck has power, too.

I have heard of poor traction control systems, so I partially agree, but not all of the suck.

This is almost comical, one would assume I was talking about all season tires. It may seem like more days then that to you, which makes my point.

A simple explaination of one type of LSD isn't going to help you understand the dynamics involved. You use fwd to discuss the LSD, when you listed cars that were all rwd or awd(perhaps the A4 but who would buy one of those in fwd). You failed to understand the effect of both wheels over driving at speed(I said high speed as in highway speeds), and how that effects what happens to the direction the vehicle is pushed(not pulled as in fwd).

Traction control is not about sucking, it is about not being required and only there for the typical driver that can't figure out how the gas pedal works. These are being used on higher end cars as driver aids, yet every professional driver complains about them during tests. They are getting better, and they definately improve the average drivers(in that car) ability. But its just a veil, and not an indication of actual skill, which will never be learned. Same goes for ABS, if your technique involves hammering on the brakes and steering into the turns, then god help you when you have an ABS system failure or drive another car without ABS.

[calgary350z]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hollywood
[B]




I said in a 1/4 mile specifically. I appoligize, I guess I was off by 0.1-0.2 seconds int the 1/4 mile on the 350z and g35c, which really means nothing being so small of a difference. Here are the stats. Im sure there are other sites out there which post different times for all the vehicles below. So dont hate.

http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/articles/0-60times.html.

2003 Nissan 350z 5.4 14.1
2004 Nissan 350z Roadster 5.7 14.3
2003 Infiniti G35 Coupe 5.5 14.2
1998 Lexus GS 400 5.8 14.3
2001 Lexus GS 430 5.8 14.3
2000 Honda S2000 5.5 14.2
2003 Honda S2000 6.3 14.9 (Manual)

iam not hating anything you said your Lexus is faster than a 350z which is not true and that was all I was saying and not to mention what you can do for a little extra money on a Z compared to what you can do on a GS430. But that is a whole other subject

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by The_Doctor


This is almost comical, one would assume I was talking about all season tires. It may seem like more days then that to you, which makes my point.

K let me get this strait. You buy a s2k a performace and handeling machine. Then you take off the high performing Bridgestone Potenza RE050 Tires then come on the car, then put all season tires on instead? If you buy a good set, so lets say you get above average dry traction, above average wet traction, avererage snow/ice traction. Why use all seasons? When you can get a set of winters that have superior ice/snow traction, and run the stock summers that have superior dry and wet traction as you are trying to maximize your tires for your the sake of your driving a sports car.

May be this is just a personal preference thing.




Originally posted by The_Doctor
A simple explaination of one type of LSD isn't going to help you understand the dynamics involved. You use fwd to discuss the LSD, when you listed cars that were all rwd or awd(perhaps the A4 but who would buy one of those in fwd). You failed to understand the effect of both wheels over driving at speed(I said high speed as in highway speeds), and how that effects what happens to the direction the vehicle is pushed(not pulled as in fwd).

What ever you say dude.


Originally posted by The_Doctor
Traction control is not about sucking, it is about not being required and only there for the typical driver that can't figure out how the gas pedal works. These are being used on higher end cars as driver aids, yet every professional driver complains about them during tests. They are getting better, and they definately improve the average drivers(in that car) ability. But its just a veil, and not an indication of actual skill, which will never be learned. Same goes for ABS, if your technique involves hammering on the brakes and steering into the turns, then god help you when you have an ABS system failure or drive another car without ABS.


Typical everyday drivers dont race/drive the car like the professional test drivers do. When I'm talking about the benifits of taction control it is under /icy/snowy/high rain conditions, I'm sorry to say but a series of complex computers act faster than your foot.




Originally posted by calgary350z
iam not hating anything you said your Lexus is faster than a 350z which is not true and that was all I was saying and not to mention what you can do for a little extra money on a Z compared to what you can do on a GS430. But that is a whole other subject

I ment dont hate on the numbers. I did not want someone to say "Oh my buddy in texus ran a 14.0 in the 1/4 a month ago, so those numbers are wrong" type thing.

In a race it would be very close either could win with the 1/4 miles being so close. You can see how the wieght difference effect the 0-60 over the 1/4 mile in all three cars, the s2k is much lighter but has less hp/tq se it equals out. IIRC 350z is around 3250+/-lbs, s2k is 2850+/-lbs, GS430 is 3700+/-lbs.

Hehehe. I'm sure the would be an interesting discussion if both cars were modded. I still think it would be close either way even with bolts ons. A warm air intake makes 27whp/35wtq on a dyno on a GS.

[The_Doctor]

Originally posted by Hollywood


K let me get this strait. You buy a s2k a performace and handeling machine. Then you take off the high performing Bridgestone Potenza RE050 Tires then come on the car, then put all season tires on instead? If you buy a good set, so lets say you get above average dry traction, above average wet traction, avererage snow/ice traction. Why use all seasons? When you can get a set of winters that have superior ice/snow traction, and run the stock summers that have superior dry and wet traction as you are trying to maximize your tires for your the sake of your driving a sports car.

May be this is just a personal preference thing.





What ever you say dude.




Typical everyday drivers dont race/drive the car like the professional test drivers do. When I'm talking about the benifits of taction control it is under /icy/snowy/high rain conditions, I'm sorry to say but a series of complex computers act faster than your foot.





I ment dont hate on the numbers. I did not want someone to say "Oh my buddy in texus ran a 14.0 in the 1/4 a month ago, so those numbers are wrong" type thing.

In a race it would be very close either could win with the 1/4 miles being so close. You can see how the wieght difference effect the 0-60 over the 1/4 mile in all three cars, the s2k is much lighter but has less hp/tq se it equals out. IIRC 350z is around 3250+/-lbs, s2k is 2850+/-lbs, GS430 is 3700+/-lbs.

Hehehe. I'm sure the would be an interesting discussion if both cars were modded. I still think it would be close either way even with bolts ons. A warm air intake makes 27whp/35wtq on a dyno on a GS.

I'll talk slower maybe you'll understand better. Who said all-season would be used year round? I'm saying snow tires are a waste in Calgary. Simple as that, if YOU need snows to make yourself feel safe :rolleyes: then by all means, one less idiot in rush hour traffic to cause delays.

"what ever you say dude" good argument, I suppose I wasn't expecting one. Perhaps if your weren't leading by calling other 'stupid' while assuming things. You may see past your own opinions how ever flawed.

Traction control isn't a bad thing, again if it prevents a hold up in traffic I'm all for it. Don't think because it's computer controlled that it's better then a human brain.

[xviper]

Originally posted by Hollywood
I have never seen an s2k winter driven in winter time ever so far in calgary.

I dont care how good of a driver you are it's impossible to drive safe in a s2k "fully stock" under full winter conditions.
All this means is that "you" have never seen one winter driven. There are at least 1/2 dozen S2000s daily driven in and around Calgary. These are ones in our local S2000 club. I have no idea how many others there are NOT in our club. Mine is in its 5th winter. I have dedicated snow tires (Blizzaks to be exact) and I have been known to drive through a parking lot after fresh snow has fallen 15 inches, parked all day and drove back out. I race doofusses in AWD, all season tire equipped Audis who think they are invicible and I beat them so bad across a snow/ice covered intersection they don't know how the fuck that happened.
As any intelligent and informed RWD car driver will tell you, you do NOT drive such a car in "full winter conditions" on high performance summer tires. What kind of idiot would even think of such a thing?
In the 5 winters I've been driving my SUPERCHARGED S2000, I have never gotten myself into any accidents or situations where I wished I had a different car. A properly equipped S2000 is by far the most fun and enjoyable winter sports car I have even owned. In fact, I have more fun in the S2000 in winter than I do in summer. And I can sure as hell go pretty much anywhere your '89 Ford Probe with all seasons can go in the City of Calgary.
I don't generally post on this site due to some of the shear misinformation and ignorance displayed here, but this one simply just cried out for a rebuttal.

[Tuner1]

Originally posted by xviper

A properly equipped S2000 is by far the most fun and enjoyable winter sports car I have even owned. In fact, I have more fun in the S2000 in winter than I do in summer.

Hear, hear :clap: I have seen firsthand how well an S2000 equipped w/snow tires works in the winter. I also agree about having more fun in the winter than summer, I love the low grip winter roads :D

Rob

[Ferrari owner]

Ha ha BURN!

[4doorj]

I'm with XVIPER here too!!!!
everyone thinks its crazy that i drive my s2000 everyday of winter!!!
it warms up faster then my ,cavalier,rsx, and jeep....it gets super toasty in the cabin.with winter tires you can drive the car in horrible winter weather.... and i drive my car on deerfoot all the time!

oh yeah for that price range your look at... 350z and s2000s are really really good choices.... my friend just bought a 350z for 34.... they are sexy cars... and really fun to drive!

[chrissa]

A few other facts about the S2000.

1. YES, it does have an LSD, a Torsen Type T-2.
2. The weight distribution is a perfect 50/50 split which helps immensely keeping all four tires gripping the ground.
3. The soft top is not a problem. You'd understand after living with the heater in that little car. It can scald your hands if you're not careful. It's a wonder why the back of my steering wheel isn't melted. Driving well below zero C, I sometimes turn the heat DOWN.

I also drove a 240SX for 10 years without an LSD in the back. Three years ago I swapped in an LSD from a wrecker. There is no way in hell I'd ever go back to driving without an LSD in winter ever again. Sitting in an intersection not moving with one wheel spinning on ice and the other wheel doing nothing on grippy pavement and snow sucks. It's why Nissan Canada had EVERY SINGLE 240SX sold in Canada 1991 and up built with an LSD as standard equipment. The United States was not so lucky (they're more lucky with their weather instead).

Chris.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by xviper
All this means is that "you" have never seen one winter driven.

Exactly! And I have seen LOTS of rx8's, 350z's and G35c's driven on the road in the winter. As I previously stated.

Again I never said an s2k cannot be winter driven with snow tires. But according to the doctor your a bad driver for using snow tires instead of all seasons.


Originally posted by chrissa
I also drove a 240SX for 10 years without an LSD in the back. Three years ago I swapped in an LSD from a wrecker. There is no way in hell I'd ever go back to driving without an LSD in winter ever again. Sitting in an intersection not moving with one wheel spinning on ice and the other wheel doing nothing on grippy pavement and snow sucks. It's why Nissan Canada had EVERY SINGLE 240SX sold in Canada 1991 and up built with an LSD as standard equipment. The United States was not so lucky (they're more lucky with their weather instead).
Chris.

Well the Doctor says the LSD makes things worse for you in the winter, it must be true and you and I are both wrong. Haha.

[xviper]

Originally posted by Hollywood
But according to the doctor your a bad driver for using snow tires instead of all seasons.
I don't know who this "Doctor" is that you keep quoting but you should stop believing some of this bullshit because this is THE most ignorant and downright dumbass statement that has EVER been posted anywhere. Posting shit like this up only makes you look just as ignorant. It's no different than saying, "You're a bad driver for using all season tires instead of high performance summer tires". Jesus H. Fucking Christ, this is getting stupid!
Why do you suppose they make snow tires? TO USE IN THE SNOW! I'm smart enough to take whatever advantage that exists for me to enjoy my car. Just because you don't think you can drive a RWD car like an S2000 with all seasons on only tells about your deficiencies. You only make yourself look like a complete fool for making assertions and assumptions about what other people can or cannot do with an automobile. MY GOD, how old are you? Your lack of worldly experience is extremely revealling. Please post statements that you have personal and real world experience with and not follow someone else's miscellaneous ramblings. There are plenty of S2000 owners right now in this city who are looking at the crap you believe in and are laughing their asses off. Oh, and BTW, they are NOT laughing "with" you. :nut:

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by xviper

I don't know who this "Doctor" is that you keep quoting but you should stop believing some of this bullshit because this is THE most ignorant and downright dumbass statement that has EVER been posted anywhere. Posting shit like this up only makes you look just as ignorant. It's no different than saying, "You're a bad driver for using all season tires instead of high performance summer tires". Jesus H. Fucking Christ, this is getting stupid!
Why do you suppose they make snow tires? TO USE IN THE SNOW! I'm smart enough to take whatever advantage that exists for me to enjoy my car. Just because you don't think you can drive a RWD car like an S2000 with all seasons on only tells about your deficiencies. You only make yourself look like a complete fool for making assertions and assumptions about what other people can or cannot do with an automobile. MY GOD, how old are you? Your lack of worldly experience is extremely revealling. Please post statements that you have personal and real world experience with and not follow someone else's miscellaneous ramblings. There are plenty of S2000 owners right now in this city who are looking at the crap you believe in and are laughing their asses off. Oh, and BTW, they are NOT laughing "with" you. :nut:

DUDE I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THE TIRES!!! Have you read this fucking thread at all. "The Doctor" has posted 5 times, 4 times on this page alone. I was referring to his quotes that I was fighting with him about.

Bash any comments of mine that you see fit, but at least read the whole thread, so you at leat understand what is being said by everyone. After reading the whole you will see you have put your foot in your mouth from the comments you just made.

P.S. My Probe has winter tires, too much torque steer with all seasons in the winter. My work van has winter tires too.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by The_Doctor
You may also not understand it but there are plenty of all season tires on the market that are more then enough for Calgary's weather. If you have to have winter tires then perhaps you just need to learn how to drive :dunno:

[FiveFreshFish]

Buy a '99 BMW M3.

[xviper]

Originally posted by Hollywood


DUDE I AGREE WITH YOU ABOUT THE TIRES!!! Have you read this fucking thread at all. "The Doctor" has posted 5 times, 4 times on this page alone. I was referring to his quotes that I was fighting with him about.
My apologies to you. Then, my beef is with the "Doctor".

[xviper]

Originally posted by The_Doctor

I'm saying snow tires are a waste in Calgary.
This is a pretty generalized statement and cannot be applicable to all cars. Since this whole seemed to stem from driving an S2000 in Calgary winters, here are some things you should know:
An S2000 comes only with high performance summers tires as stock. These are some of the stickiest performance summer tires put on any automobile today. Unfortunately, when they get cold, they don't work worth a damn.
When I drive mine all winter long, I take whatever advantage tire technology will have to offer. That is my right. I will not waste my time and money buying all season tires just because there "might" be only a few days where such tires are needed. I'll go with the worst case scenario and prepare for that. To make a blanket statement that snow tires are a waste in Calgary is pretty misinformed.
Taxicabs and police cruisers get by just fine on the all season radials they came with. An S2000 is nothing like a Crown Vic. With it's low weight, low ground clearance, snow tires are necessary to negotiate some of the roads that it must traverse. For me to have snow tires on my S2000 doesn't mean I'm a bad driver. It only means you don't understand the driving dynamics of an S2000. And your E36 won't give you any clues either.

[Ferrari owner]

Originally posted by Hollywood
2000 ats cant really drive in winter.

[The_Doctor]

Originally posted by xviper

This is a pretty generalized statement and cannot be applicable to all cars. Since this whole seemed to stem from driving an S2000 in Calgary winters, here are some things you should know:
An S2000 comes only with high performance summers tires as stock. These are some of the stickiest performance summer tires put on any automobile today. Unfortunately, when they get cold, they don't work worth a damn.
When I drive mine all winter long, I take whatever advantage tire technology will have to offer. That is my right. I will not waste my time and money buying all season tires just because there "might" be only a few days where such tires are needed. I'll go with the worst case scenario and prepare for that. To make a blanket statement that snow tires are a waste in Calgary is pretty misinformed.
Taxicabs and police cruisers get by just fine on the all season radials they came with. An S2000 is nothing like a Crown Vic. With it's low weight, low ground clearance, snow tires are necessary to negotiate some of the roads that it must traverse. For me to have snow tires on my S2000 doesn't mean I'm a bad driver. It only means you don't understand the driving dynamics of an S2000. And your E36 won't give you any clues either.

Wow are you a grumpy fellow. My e36 will make your s2000 run and hide so don't start with me. My statement was to hollywood and the rest of the people that think snow tires are the only way to go. Again read what is being said then make a point, my comment stands as that 'my comment'. Most of what I've been saying is just to goat hollywood for being a dick.

Also all these assumsions are getting old, and all seasons are just fine. Perhaps have a look at some available all seasons to get a better grasp before thinking snows are piles better, especially considering the minimal snow we get.

[xviper]

Originally posted by The_Doctor

My e36 will make your s2000 run and hide so don't start with me.
I don't fucking think so, Tim. I'll start with you in the light of you making stupid statements like that. I'll race you in a snow covered parking lot anytime you like. We'll see how good your all seasons are. What are you a doctor of anyway? Ego?

[reijo]

Another S2000 driver here........with winters. How do I keep warm? Well, for starters I keep the top up in winter and heat on! :eek:

Had a Miata before that and drove it many winters.....still remember passing a stuck 4WD minivan on the way up the Fortress Mtn. road in December.....on the OEM summers. However it was much better in the snow and cold with winters on.

There is a case to be made for all-seasons in Calgary due to the lack of snow and if you do not ski or go to the mountains at all. So instead of winters, a good high perf all-season may be an alternative if you drive more carefully/slowly and maybe even stay off the roads on real wintery days.

However it should be noted that all-seasons are required to work in all seasons. That means they are a compromise by the very definition of all-season. They do not work as well as summer tires in summer nor do they work as well as snow tires in winter. Summer tires are designed to work in higher temperatures (and hence why they harden with cold and for the most part perform poorly in winter conditions.....the thread pattern is not the only part of the equation here folks....the rubber compound is different!). Winter tires are designed to work in cold temperatures (not just snow). All Seasons are supposed to work in all temperatures.....obviously some compromises have been made from an engineering perspective. "A jack of all trades, but master of none"?

Tire Rack had an interesting test (a few years ago....may still be there) on a comparison of the various types of tires and it was very interesting to learn which tires performed best under which conditions - all-seasons, winters and summers. What I found the most surprising was how superior the summer tires were in the rain over the all-seasons! Very interesting. But I digress...

In any case, in the light of engineering design, I prefer to call all-seasons, no-seasons, since they are a compromise in design and do not work particularly well in any season. ;)

One last story from this past winter: Still remember leaving behind a 4WD SUV at a light on ice with my S2000........he was spinning his tires - surely some no-season tires that came with the vehicle. Torsen LSD (std. on all S2000's) works quite well - thank you.

Reijo

[Ferrari owner]

Originally posted by The_Doctor
My e36 will make your s2000 run and hide so don't start with me.

You did notice xviper said his car was supercharged, right? Your beemer must be pretty fast.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by The_Doctor
Most of what I've been saying is just to goat hollywood for being a dick.

I know. I just like stirring it up sometimes.


Originally posted by xviper
When I drive mine all winter long, I take whatever advantage tire technology will have to offer. That is my right. I will not waste my time and money buying all season tires just because there "might" be only a few days where such tires are needed. I'll go with the worst case scenario and prepare for that. To make a blanket statement that snow tires are a waste in Calgary is pretty misinformed.



Originally posted by reijo
Winter tires are designed to work in cold temperatures (not just snow). All Seasons are supposed to work in all temperatures.....obviously some compromises have been made from an engineering perspective. "A jack of all trades, but master of none"?

Yea some believers!

I use winter tires in calgary for mainly 2 reasons;

- My girlfriend feels more comfortable with snow tires.

- Shorter ice/snow braking distances.

I prefer the comfort of being able to come to a stop as best as my car can do in the ice/snow, you never know what could happen in front of you at any given time.


Originally posted by reijo
Torsen LSD (std. on all S2000's) works quite well - thank you.


Another happy winter LSD'er. :D

[xviper]

Originally posted by Ferrari owner


You did notice xviper said his car was supercharged, right? Your beemer must be pretty fast.
I don't think it was an issue to do with how powerful or how fast either car is. It had to do with the tires. Either car would have plenty of power to spin snow or all seasons tires in the snow/ice.

ps. Since I don't know the "players" here, I'm going to be more respectful and just let you "locals" duke it out.

pps. I have 350 HP at the crank, with another 9% multiplication of torque with 4.44 final drive gears, Toda header, cat back exhaust and a test pipe and wheels so light you can hold one up with your pinky. I'm not going to be running and hiding from an E36. ;) (But I digress ........... that's just the testosterone talking.)

[The_Doctor]

Originally posted by xviper

I don't think it was an issue to do with how powerful or how fast either car is. It had to do with the tires. Either car would have plenty of power to spin snow or all seasons tires in the snow/ice.

ps. Since I don't know the "players" here, I'm going to be more respectful and just let you "locals" duke it out.

pps. I have 350 HP at the crank, with another 9% multiplication of torque with 4.44 final drive gears, Toda header, cat back exhaust and a test pipe and wheels so light you can hold one up with your pinky. I'm not going to be running and hiding from an E36. ;) (But I digress ........... that's just the testosterone talking.)


Not a problem, my e36 has 2 extra doors, twice the number of cylinders and near 3 times the displacement, and more then twice the seating capacity. But im lacking the open air so we'll call it a draw :)

[Ferrari owner]

Originally posted by The_Doctor



Not a problem, my e36 has 2 extra doors, twice the number of cylinders and near 3 times the displacement, and more then twice the seating capacity. But im lacking the open air so we'll call it a draw :)

Six litre 8 cylinder 3 series? Hmm.

[xviper]

Originally posted by The_Doctor



Not a problem, my e36 has 2 extra doors, twice the number of cylinders and near 3 times the displacement, and more then twice the seating capacity. But im lacking the open air so we'll call it a draw :)
Not a bad shit afterall. :thumbsup:

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Ferrari owner


Six litre 8 cylinder 3 series? Hmm.

LS1 perhaps. But even the LS1 bmw guys reccomend using the m3 lsd for the swap and he said he has no lsd. But why be dodgy about just say what you have, otherwise it's just childish bench racing.

[jersturbo]

Kirbs17...
I'm being kinda partial here...
...however the SRT4 is a great buy now...the values are low being non-advertised and a glut in stock at dealers still.

Has...
great power
decent handling
great steering
good brakes
robust engine and tranmission (some stockers taking 550+hp)
Quaife LSD differential
some aggressive looks
cool viper-style seats
you can pack in 3-4 more boys & girls
a decent trunk
gets envious looks
dusts most cars on the street
won't break the bank account
can be driven all year round no problem
good warranty
NOT expensive for replacement parts
dealers for repairs available everywhere
...and insurance is really reasonable (mine still gets lumped in with the 2.0SX for insurance rates, but still has full value replacement :thumbsup: )

Plus...
...there are tons of mods available for "fun" value...without having to spent a fortune of additional cash, one can keep doing upgrades to increase thier ownership pleasure.

For example...a set of fancy japanese cams (giving only a bit more power)...a stage 2 (with toys) kit power can be had...or...suspension upgrading...for noticable gains!

Buy one for under 25K...spend 10K on power + suspension + wheels/tires, with left over for stereo and stuff...and you'd have a "killer" :devil:

Out of the box the SRT4...
...is not a porsche in power...and not in price...but can make "well" over 350hp with a S3 kit!
...nor a M3 series bimmer in handling...but can be made to handle damn close to...with stage 3 coils + sway bars + camber plates!
...not just another honder either.

Great buy and value...PS - get an eBlue one...IMHO




Originally posted by Kirbs17
Hey guys. Im just setting out into the market to look for a car, and I know somewhat whats out there, but not too too much. When Im done college (about a year) I'll be trading in my Jetta for something a little sportier. Im a huge fan of the 323ci bmw's, and of course 350z's, STI's, etc etc. Id like to buy used, and 35k would be the max. Any ideas?

[Kirbs17]

^^ Thanks for the super informative post. Thats definatly the kind of posts I was imagining would pop up in here, not a debate about LSD in winter. I love the SRT-4's for sure. What kind of engine do they have in them stock? Whats the bolt pattern for wheels?

[jersturbo]

Here ya go...links

http://www.dodge.com/srt-4/
http://www.dodge.com/srt-4/index.html

There was a warranty change...meaning that 2004 models sold before April 2004 (like mine) still had the full 7/110K...and later models have the 5/90?K

The SRT4 is in Canada for only 2004 and 2005...so production numbers are not very high.

Engine stock...is a 2.4L twin cam 16 valve 4 cylinder, with turbo-charger, front mounted inter-cooler...the internals are 'very' tough, HD rods, HD block, specific pistons, etc...many guys are now running 500+ hp on the stock engine...so it's tough.

Dodge under rates the horse power at 230 (at the crank)...but pretty much all SRT4s make more than that at the wheels (about 240)...from stock!

Wheels are 5 bolt x 100mm...stock are 17" rims...with BF-Goodrich KDW's.

LSD is a great thing...but..they must be cared for...you can't smoke/spin one side wheel on ice/gravel, while the other side tire remains on a grip surface...that will eventually cause damage to the LSD.

Jer


Originally posted by Kirbs17
^^ Thanks for the super informative post. Thats definatly the kind of posts I was imagining would pop up in here, not a debate about LSD in winter. I love the SRT-4's for sure. What kind of engine do they have in them stock? Whats the bolt pattern for wheels?

[Kirbs17]

damn, thanks for the info man:thumbsup:

[96Mx6]

You can get a 2 year old clk320 for low 30's. New they were 70+.