Fahrenhype 9/11

[Wildcat]

has anyone seen this movie? i think it was on TV a while ago, im just wondering if its credible, i have to do a 1500 word essay on michael moore and his films. hes quite the lefty and most of the stuff said in this movie seemed to make sense, even more-so once i saw Fahrenheight 9/11 again. Its kinda hard to get the facts straight when you have these far wing radicals going at it through commercial film propaganda as a medium. you watch this then you think michael moore an aging hippy liberal douche. your thoughts/opinions?

[BlueGoblin]

You may not like the man, and you may not like the message, but He seemed to have gotten his facts straight. He dared anybody to sue him on his facts and to my knowledge, there were no takers.

That being said, in matters of conjecture, he did not present 'both sides of the story'. He was not required to though. He produced a documentary with a bunch of facts and some opinions on those facts.

Call it propaganda if you like, but then so is anything with facts and opinions. I found it less biased than the average Fox News broadcast.

[Toms-SC]

reposto, i got flamed for it

[rice_eater]

i think farenheit 9/11 was weak...i dont understand where the cult following came from

[Tyler883]

I watched his movie on gun control, and he really didn't even do a good job at covering the issues.......in fact, in his zeal to badmouth the US gun policies, he actually presented a strong case that Canada is a gun toting country with no problems.....he unwittingly suggested that the liberal gun registry was a waste of money.

IMO, Michial Moore has built a career on being controversial, and in order to do that, he doesn't stay objective, nor does he stick with a balanced or factual arguement.

I have little doubt that his movies will continue to get more, and more controversial until eventually even his fans will see him as a KOOK.

[32V-V8]

Well, if his facts are straight... then I commend him for risking death presenting them... He could be bluffing.

[Xtrema]

If you see all his movies, he has always been one sided and always stay on the same formula.

1) state the position
2) state the facts that support that position
3) add in his 2 cent why this position is the only right choice
4) Make his opponent look like a jackass on camera

roll credits.

That said, I'm kinda looking forward how he rip a new one on the drug companies in the U.S.

You may not agree with him, but at least he starts dialogs and debates.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Xtrema
If you see all his movies, he has always been one sided and always stay on the same formula.

1) state the position
2) state the facts that support that position
3) add in his 2 cent why this position is the only right choice
4) Make his opponent look like a jackass on camera



Sounds like any well backed argument.

I agree, F9/11 was a weak film, but I think that Bowling for Columbine was fantastic.

[DeathBy240]

I actually wrote a review on FahrenHYPE. Here is the unedited version, with a lot of comments and editorializing that thankfully didnt make it to press. :D


Dave Clark - Intercamp Staff Writer
If you have 90 minutes to spare to listen to some right-wing “experts” mutter hearsay and at least triple the recommended daily intake of propaganda then strap yourself in for FahrenHYPE 9-11. Don’t be fooled, this is not the box office hit from Michael Moore, but a cleverly-titled rebuttal to such film.

The cleverness stops at the title. The movie jumps into some interviews with people that were in Manhattan the day of the attacks. You would think an interviewer would be able to get some strong, emotional insights here, but that didn’t happen. They started to put a bit more effort later on in the film, by adding cheesy dramatic music, and flashing to black and white when a subject had a good quote.

The actual content of the movie was its worst downfall. One expert, a former assistant secretary of Defense under the Reagan administration, goes as far as make reference to the war on Iraq as the “Fourth World War” (the third World War was, according to him, the Cold War of course). A world war? Seriously? Why not call it World War 6? Surely the “War on Drugs” and the “War on Terror” were “World Wars” too, right?

The movie also has a lot of Bill Clinton bashing, specifically in his alleged inability to fight terrorism. It was more than obvious this is done to take blame from the Republican Bush, and put it in the hands of his Democrat predecessor, indirectly strengthening the conception that presidential candidate John Kerry will fault in dealing with terrorism. A former Clinton advisor says Clinton had the opportunity to attack Osama Bin Laden, but he declined to do so. Yes, it’s a real shame than the former President wasn’t a blood-thirsty cowboy.

Another subject that saw a lot of camera time, was Senator Zell Miller. He gave a great analogy of how he didn’t consult anyone, just acted quickly, when he poisonous found snakes in his yard. He chopped their heads off with a hoe, to protect his farm. He relates this to the way Bush acted when confronted with the problem of terrorism. I guess when starting a war that will kill thousands of innocent people, one should just shoot first and ask questions later.

One thing to watch for in this movie is the fear tactics. The film must have been produced, or at least funded, by a Bush advisor. Dick Morris, a political consultant, just starts listing off all the places that terrorists plan to, or have planned to attack. He does it with ease, offering no sources for this information like Moore does for all the facts in his movie.

David Hardy, co-author of “Michael Moore is a Big Fat Stupid White Man” states that Moore is so anti-American he must be French! Let’s get a little more ignorant shall we?

The movie is filled with interviews that no real filmmaker should want in their movie. Ron Silver makes many appearances, saying nothing of any meaning. Ann Coulter, who has written three books about the lies, treachery, and crimes of the liberals of America, is another “expert” that spews nothing but questionable opinions with no factual back-up.

If you intend to watch this film, seeing Fahrenheit 9-11 is a pre-requisite. Also, remember this flick was intended to discredit Michael Moore and his movie, and to help President Bush’s campaign, which was severely hurt by this movie. But most important of all, don’t let it fool you.


Flame away. :guns:

[finboy]

"Ann Coulter"

see previous posts of mine for opinion on said person.

[iceburns288]

Is she that blonde lady who dissed Canada on CNN with the bowtie guy?

[finboy]

Originally posted by iceburns288
Is she that blonde lady who dissed Canada on CNN with the bowtie guy?

that would be the one

[Wildcat]

^ya i fucking hate that bitch. :guns: ,

some of the arguments made in fahrenhype 9/11 were backed and totally blew some of moores claims out of the water, like how bush spent 42% of his first 8 months in office on vacation, or how the bin laden family was "rushed" out of america, or how bush knew about the first plane crash before he went into the school and found out the second had crashed into the other midway through the reading with the class, al gore winning the election, etc etc, all bs. but then again some of the rubuttles were just answered with a flat out NO, which just made me really sceptical about the whole film.

[rmk]

f 9/11 was one of the best doc's i've ever seen. the only movie at the end of it, everyone in the theatre applauded (but in canada nonetheless) in fact, every mm doc has been a great watch. the point of a doc like f 9/11, bfc is to make you think and get you talking and debating about the issue at hand; and mm did that. i wouldn't call the movie brilliant, but he dug deep and got so much classified information that the bushies and their slimeball crony network had tried to hide from us, that it was nothing short of impressive and mind boggling.

the thing that bugs me is that right wing yanks (and other right wing fanatics who have their eyes and ears taped shut) are the first people to give high praise of how much freedom they have, no country in the world is as free as the america, the west, blah, blah, blah. but speak out against a war time leader or his assinine polices and BAM your labeled anti-american, a traitor and blacklisted. (mm, dixie chicks, various hollywood shmucks).

free speech and independant thought go out the window and your left with a country full of mindless idiotic citizens who can't think for themselves. but thats exactly what we expect from americans. i wouldn't go as far as to say bush is a modern day hitler, but they do have similarities.................................

[scooby_dooby]

i wish the daly show could get Ann Coulture on for just 10 minutes, man that would be funny, they'd rip her apart

I thought Fahrenheit 9/11 was pretty good, but I remember thinking at the end that I was expecting it to be better than it was. I thought he could've made a stronger point, concentrated too much on the election in florida, as well as the bush-bin laden conection.

Both those things are just too far out there, and most people dismiss them out of hand, even though they are very valid points.

I wich he would've concentrated more on Bush's lies, just back to back Bush Lying then the Truth, Bush Lying then the truth, cheney lying then the...well ya get the point

and I also wish he would've concentrated more on wolfowitz, PNAC, and how the entire invasion of Iraq has been planned for over a decade, to really expose what a sham the pre-war hype really was.

and lastly, i wish he would've drawn more comparisons between the proganda machine of Goebbells in hitler Germany, and the current propoganda machine of the Bush adminsitration, cause man bush sure took a page out of that book.

never seen the rebuttal but I'm not really interested, if Micheal Moore had truly lied in this documentary he would've been sued a long time ago. That means more to me than some rebuttal documentary, because if the facts were truly wrong why not bring him to court?

And ya, everyone applauded when i watched it too,

[32V-V8]

Originally posted by rmk


free speech and independant thought go out the window and your left with a country full of mindless idiotic citizens who can't think for themselves. but thats exactly what we expect from americans. i wouldn't go as far as to say bush is a modern day hitler, but they do have similarities................................. Similarites... yes. As does Canadian poltics.

[DayGlow]

The only thing I don't like about Moore is that he markets his opinion pieces as 'documentries'. He is like a writer in a paper doing an Ed/Op piece, not a news story and should sell his movies as such.

[BlueGoblin]

I personally think that there is nothing wrong with a documentary being a bit op/ed, provided that the facts are true and the bias is declared. I do agree that Moore goes past this line more than I am comfortable with but at least he retains the intellectual honesty of a declared bias;

To be fair, there is almost no news story that isn't op/ed to one degree or another. Even if you look at the same news story pulled off a newswire service, the way that the headlines are presented speaks volumes about bias.

For example, in the UK this week, a man went on a rampage, drove a commercial vehicle down the wrong way of a high speed motorway, crashed, and then came out swinging a samurai sword at police. The police deployed less-lethal rounds at him which had no effect, and finally fatally shot him with real firearms when he tried to carjack a tanker truck.

The headlines;

"Cops Shoot Dead Crazy Swordsman" - Glasgow Daily Record
"Police Kill Sword Nut" - The Mirror UK
"Sword Wielding Man Shot Dead by Police" - BBC
"Policeman Shoots Dead Sword Wielding Driver" - Yorkshire Post
"Police Shoot Man Dead After Van Alert" - Tiscali News UK
"Police Shoot Man Dead Driving Wrong Way on A63" -The Times
"Man Driving Wrong Way Shot Dead" - The Penninsula
"Police Shoot Van Driver Dead" - IC Uxbridge
"Police Kill 'Gentle Christian' in Road Drama" - Scotsman

I have arranged them into a bit of a continuum. None of them are technically incorrect (not sure about the 'gentle christian' thing, but hey, lets give some benefit of the doubt....). All of them are based on the same basic news release. See any op/ed in there?

Sometimes its nice to see your facts with the presenter's bias out in the open.

[DayGlow]

I disagree that Moore is open with his bias. From 9/11 he shows a title for a letter to the editor photoshopped so it was the headline for the news paper. That's a blatent lie and a gross mis-representation of facts.

Same can be said for Bowling for Columbine. He edits 2 different speeches together from Charlton Heston that were 8 months apart to appear he's being insensitive to the tragedy. I find that very devent and underhanded. He is fabricating events and presenting them as facts to further his viewpoint.

[M_Power]

IMO moore is a hoax. farenHYPE shows how most of moore's "classified" documents were doctored and misrepresented. Hype also shows how moore edited the part with the coast line officer (who did not even give moore permission to use the footage) to show a different opinion than the officer actually had. As one of the headlines in farenhype says "Michael Moore is a big, fat, stupid white man" :D

[Tyler883]

I hear that michiel moore is coming out with a sequel for F911, only this time, he says the american people will never re-elect Bush as president.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Nissanaddict]

That's what he said last time. He's a complete liberal. He complains about corporations (I haven't seen Roger & Me, but that one's all about that) well if he stopped eating big macs Mcdonalds would go bankrupt. The biggest thing about him (other than, well, how physically huge the guy is) is the fact that he fails to do his part. he WHINES and expects everyone to follow him. And if anyone discredits fahrenHYPE because someone who dissed Canada agrees with them, well then that's very cool.

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by Nissanaddict
That's what he said last time. He's a complete liberal. He complains about corporations (I haven't seen Roger & Me, but that one's all about that) well if he stopped eating big macs Mcdonalds would go bankrupt. The biggest thing about him (other than, well, how physically huge the guy is) is the fact that he fails to do his part. he WHINES and expects everyone to follow him. And if anyone discredits fahrenHYPE because someone who dissed Canada agrees with them, well then that's very cool.

Did you miss the joke? American presidents can't be re-elected for a third term, and Bush is on his second.

[Nissanaddict]

haha I think I did. Good point.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Nissanaddict
That's what he said last time. He's a complete liberal. He complains about corporations (I haven't seen Roger & Me, but that one's all about that) well if he stopped eating big macs Mcdonalds would go bankrupt. The biggest thing about him (other than, well, how physically huge the guy is) is the fact that he fails to do his part. he WHINES and expects everyone to follow him. And if anyone discredits fahrenHYPE because someone who dissed Canada agrees with them, well then that's very cool.

its not because she "dissed" canada, its because she has been busted SEVERAL times for making up facts, yet they are using her as a reliable source of info.