Learning to drive FWD....

[fast95pony]

I've always owned performance RWD cars (except for a '01 Focus SE and an Omni which were NOT performance cars !!) .

I've put almost 190,000 kms on my Stang , and have taken it to the Performance driving school held at Race City , and dragged it, so I know pretty well what the limits of the car are.

The SVT Focus however is a different kettle of fish . I'm going to have to learn it's limits , what to do if it understeers etc.

I guess practice is the best way...

Will a FWD car oversteer ?? Using the handbrake I suppose ..
:dunno:

Alan

[legendboy]

Originally posted by fast95pony
Using the handbrake I suppose ...

or 60psi in the rear tires :rofl:

[rage2]

Or lift throttle at the limit!

It's scary oversteering at the limit on a front wheel drive car. You pretty much want to floor it to get as much weight back to the rear wheels as possible to regain traction while pointing the wheel to where you want to go.

It's a lot tougher to recover than a RWD car that's for sure.

[speedracer]

Liff off steering isn't fun. :(

Left foot breaking is your friend with a touch of e-brake for correction.

[Loose]

the thing I found hard to deal with in a FWD car is telling yourself that it's ok to mash the gas when you are oversteering.

[Mikko]

Well, depending on the surface you are driving on, there are plenty of fun things one can do. They all seem to work better the more speed one has.

* Lift-off over steer. Simply come off the throttle (engine brake) when experiencing under steer or just turning hard.

* Left-foot braking. When under steer is about to occur or occurs, gradually apply braking with the left foot, while staying on the throttle (probably more throttle to compensate for the braking at the front wheels). It can be made to neutral steer or over steer this way.

* Pendulum. When approaching upcoming corner, quickly turn away from it, then right into it (thus the name, a pendulum), this makes the car tail happy.

* Scandinavian flick - Only works without ABS and on slippy surfaces. Flick the car away from the upcoming corner, then stab the clutch and brakes, keeping them pressed. You are then coming down towards the corner in a skid facing away from it. Turn wheel towards the turn and when it comes, let go of brakes. Same result as the pendulum. For hairpins and narrow places.

* Handbrake turn. Turn steering wheel about half a rotation or so in the desired direction, pull handbrake. Only really meant for very sharp turns in confined spaces. Works wonders when the car under steers like mad and you are going slow and it's slippery.

[Mikko]

Yeah, about the gas.. In traffic safety courses and skid training they taught us to always press the clutch when skids occur, because a free spinning wheel has a better chance of regaining grip than one that is messed with. But if the rear skids out more than 45 degrees the steering won't help much anymore. HOWEVER; giving it some throttle should, even while it might be spinning, pull the car into the direction you are aiming the front wheels. This makes it possible to correct skids that are impossible to get out of with RWD.

[GTS Jeff]

mashing the gas in order to correct understeer isnt too effective. the best way to correct understeer is to just feather the gas pedal for traction.

[Mikko]

As long as it rolls the wheels faster than the speed the ground below it passes. As in, if you don't do enough it's like engine braking and that will definitely make it very very hard to correct it.

[4wheeldrift]

Left foot braking is your friend. It will definetly help settle the car down if it starts to get loose, as effectively as feathering the throttle if you do it properly. Any time the car starts to understeer, hitting the throttle is not really going to help. This is the perfect reason to bring the car out for solo 2 :D Most front wheel drive cars will oversteer, but its generally snap oversteer due to you doing something you shouldn't have. Very few front wheel drives are set-up to give you even neutral handling right out of the box, never mind oversteer.

[speedracer]

Originally posted by Loose
the thing I found hard to deal with in a FWD car is telling yourself that it's ok to mash the gas when you are oversteering.
:thumbsup: Yup, but after a few spins you learn pretty fast not to do that. I had to experience it first before my brain agreed :D

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by 4wheeldrift
Left foot braking is your friend. It will definetly help settle the car down if it starts to get loose, as effectively as feathering the throttle if you do it properly. Any time the car starts to understeer, hitting the throttle is not really going to help. This is the perfect reason to bring the car out for solo 2 :D Most front wheel drive cars will oversteer, but its generally snap oversteer due to you doing something you shouldn't have. Very few front wheel drives are set-up to give you even neutral handling right out of the box, never mind oversteer. well even most rwds are setup for a bit of understeer too...

also, left foot braking is hard!

[speedracer]

Originally posted by Jeff TYPE R
also, left foot braking is hard!
practice young grasshopper ;)
(I'm not very good at it either)

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by speedracer

practice young grasshopper ;)
(I'm not very good at it either) its hard on an underpowered minivan with shitty brakes....

whenever i try, i cant lock the rear wheels without locking the front wheels as well..even if i mash the gas

[speedracer]

Originally posted by Jeff TYPE R
its hard on an underpowered minivan with shitty brakes....

whenever i try, i cant lock the rear wheels without locking the front wheels as well..even if i mash the gas
hehe You can't out match me: ATX 1.3L ~35WHP with 12" wheels :drool: Now that's under powered.
I've done this in vans as well though a little scary with massive body roll. Prob not a vehcial of choice :D

You don't need to lock up the rear. What your aiming for is a smooth transfer of weight from the rear to the front.

[bigboom]

does anyone know how to allow for left foot braking in electronically controlled throttles?

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by speedracer
You don't need to lock up the rear. What your aiming for is a smooth transfer of weight from the rear to the front. i didnt know that!!

[4wheeldrift]

Originally posted by bigboom
does anyone know how to allow for left foot braking in electronically controlled throttles? It depends on the car. If you have one where it cuts the throttle if you are on the brakes, you're screwed. Volkswagen used to be like that, nissan still is.

[4wheeldrift]

Originally posted by Jeff TYPE R
well even most rwds are setup for a bit of understeer too...

also, left foot braking is hard! Everything is set up for understeer in north america, because no one knows how to drive oveer here. But you can still get most rear wheel drive cars to give you snap oversteer if you are not very, ahem, gentle with the gas :D

[MrHeavyFoot]

Originally posted by 4wheeldrift
It depends on the car. If you have one where it cuts the throttle if you are on the brakes, you're screwed. Volkswagen used to be like that, nissan still is.

VWs are all drive by wire now so they still do it. You can heel/toe, but apparently mashing on the brake and accelerator at the same time is pretty much impossible. Not that I've really tried, except in the parking lot yesterday and I pretty much brought the car to a complete halt. That was more a case of the left foot having absolutely no feel for the the brake though. :confused:

I think one of the CSCC rally guys (Miles?) was saying that he found the wire to pull in his Beetle to get around it though.

[4wheeldrift]

Originally posted by MrHeavyFoot
I think one of the CSCC rally guys (Miles?) was saying that he found the wire to pull in his Beetle to get around it though. Yes, Miles knows how to disable that "feature", since he had to do it on the Bugasaurus. He told me how he did it awhile back, but I no longer remember. Something about fooling the ECU into thinking the brake was not on even when it was.