!! Dont Mess With The Cops!!!

[gggunit]

When I saw this on TV I was like :eek: .. makes you wanna think twice before doing anything to a cop.. this dude got knocked the f@#$k out..


http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/04/18/detective.killed.ap/index.html


!! DONT MESS WITH THE COPS!!!

[BerserkerCatSplat]

He killed a cop, what do you expect? They say he jumped out a window... okay. You know what? Even if he didn't jump, even if the cops personally beat him into a bloody pulp, I'm OK with that. Police brutality? No. Police justice.

[wildkarrde]

I can't believe his clueless mother is trying to defend him.

[2.2vtec]

That guy got fucked up!! He's still bleeding on his mask!:eek:

[DEREK57]

He possibly stabbed a lady, and then killed the cop, so he deserves to be punished...alot, but this is not the way. He is a murder, but he is still a person, he deserves a fair trail, and the same punishment as everyone else. Cops are just people too, and this shouldnt be allowed.

[2.2vtec]

Originally posted by DEREK57
He possibly stabbed a lady, and then killed the cop, so he deserves to be punished...alot, but this is not the way. He is a murder, but he is still a person, he deserves a fair trail, and the same punishment as everyone else. Cops are just people too, and this shouldnt be allowed.

Well put!

[gatorade]

looks like the cops beat the crap out of him, those are weird looking injuries for someone who fell out a window unless he fell straight on his face.

When that guy hits prison, its going to get worse, the cops will probably have their friends in there rough him up too..

[Mad$ella]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSpl
Police brutality? No. Police justice.



:werd:

[DEREK57]

Why should the police be allowed to do that? Should they be able to do that to all murder suspects?

[wildkarrde]

You wouldn't have beat his ass if you were the cop? Imagine buddy that got killed was your partner for 5+ years.

You might be a little upset.

[illeagle]

At least they left him alive and walking on his own 2 feet... I don't feel sorry for him.
how hard would it be to get tylonol in jail?:rofl:

[DEREK57]

Originally posted by wildkarrde
You wouldn't have beat his ass if you were the cop? Imagine buddy that got killed was your partner for 5+ years.

You might be a little upset.

Im not saying I wouldnt have. Im saying they shouldnt have been able to. If someone kills your friend do you get five minutes in a room with them? No.

[wildkarrde]

Yeah, I'm not trying to justify that it was fair, it would just be almost impossible to hold yourself back.

[ecstasy_civic]

Originally posted by wildkarrde
Yeah, I'm not trying to justify that it was fair, it would just be almost impossible to hold yourself back.

Ive had friends that were beat to a bloody pulp, and Ive done everything I could to restrain myself from defending them.

I can see where the cops were coming from, but that does look pretty rough for that dude lol

[GQBalla]

wow he got pwned

[BlueGoblin]

Originally posted by DEREK57
Why should the police be allowed to do that? Should they be able to do that to all murder suspects?

The guy attacked a police officer, murdered him, and then jumped out a third story window to escape. Do you think that he gave up nicely when he got caught?

I bet that even if he had one good arm left after the fall he would have been throwing punches with it and probably spitting to boot.

[ZMan2k2]

I don't know. Does anyone really think he jumped out a third story window by himself? I think he may have had a little help. But come-on guys, I know alot of people here have said "damn cops", "stupid cops", and so on, when they get a traffic ticket, but this is WAY different. This guy was a suspect in a stabbing of a defenceless 84-year-old woman, then shooting a detective. This officer was doing his job, keeping scum off the streets, protecting you and me, and was killed where he probably felt most secure in his job. Right in his own precinct. Sure, the officers, if they did do anything illegal (ie. wailing on his face with a night stick), were out of line, but who among us wouldn't gladly kick the living shit out of someone who hurt or killed someone we loved, or a close friend of yours. I will admit, I would. And I'm not ashamed to say that.

[kevie88]

They should have just shot him.

[B17a]

Reminds me of the movie Casino when they catch that guy and his buddy cheating in the casino and give him the hammer to the hand. Then Robert DeNiro says to the guards "toss him out in the alley and tell the cops he got hit by a car". Hmmmm, hit by a car vs. "fell out a 3 storey window".......

Either way, can't say I feel sorry for the guy.

[DayGlow]

Interesting. People here complain of being stereotyped by the po po, yet have no problem throwing their own around.

[Celica TVS3]

This guy is a suspect; he has not been convicted of a crime. If he jumped out the window he got what he deserved. If the cops beat him and/or lied about it they should be charged – and be forced to take a leave of absence prior to the investigation if there is enough controversy surrounding the issue. The fact he is a murder suspect does not give a vigilante cop the right to batter him. The courts have an established system to deal with crime suspects. Police have a role to play in main ting a civil society however passing judgment on a suspect’s guilt then dispensing a punishment they feel is fit is not the role of the police. That leads our society down a path that is not in the best interest of anybody.

[Kobe]

Originally posted by DayGlow
Interesting. People here complain of being stereotyped by the po po, yet have no problem throwing their own around.


Hahaha, sorry i have to ask, do the police get mad if people call you the "po po"

[DayGlow]

no idea. I call myself it and say I'm the pol-lice :D

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by Celica TVS3
This guy is a suspect; he has not been convicted of a crime. If he jumped out the window he got what he deserved. If the cops beat him and/or lied about it they should be charged – and be forced to take a leave of absence prior to the investigation if there is enough controversy surrounding the issue. The fact he is a murder suspect does not give a vigilante cop the right to batter him. The courts have an established system to deal with crime suspects. Police have a role to play in main ting a civil society however passing judgment on a suspect’s guilt then dispensing a punishment they feel is fit is not the role of the police. That leads our society down a path that is not in the best interest of anybody.

Not sure how well you read the article. He was a suspect in stabbing a 84-yr old woman, yes. However, the detective at the precinct goes into the room to question him. Thus there are two people in the room: the suspect and the detective. The detective winds up dead, shot with his own gun. The suspect flees and is so desperate to escape, he jumps out a third-story window.

I get the feeling the cop didn't shoot himself.

[Celica TVS3]

He may have done the crime but having done the crime doesn't make him guilty. Guilt is something that has to be established in a court of law. Even if he was convicted of the crime the sentence is to be delivered by the court, not the jailers. These rules are in place for a reason. Police bending these rules based on their personal feelings is a miscarriage of justice - and if this becomes tolerated behavior it impacts every member of the society by destroying the very system designed to protect the citizenry.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by Celica TVS3
He may have done the crime but having done the crime doesn't make him guilty.

Er... OK. I thought killing someone makes you a murderer, but I guess I was wrong.

As for the justice system, killers tend to get off very easily, with a slap on the wrist and reduced sentences for good behaviour. I'm not totally against seeing some vigilante justice being served.

However, i'm not saying that what the police did (or didn't do, there's no proof they actually beat him, either) is right. But, at the same time, I'm not going to condemn them for doing what they apparently did.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by DEREK57
He possibly stabbed a lady, and then killed the cop, so he deserves to be punished...alot, but this is not the way. He is a murder, but he is still a person, he deserves a fair trail, and the same punishment as everyone else. Cops are just people too, and this shouldnt be allowed.

Cops dont put on a suit and tie and sit in an office building all day. No, instead they deal with drug addicts, crazy homeless people, drunks, prostitutes, pimps, gang bangers... but hey, when you pull yourself away from your computer and deal with that 10 hours of everyday for the rest of your life, then you can say "hey they're just people too"

there are certain laws there to "help" cops. like murdering a cop in some states is instant capital punishment in many states. why? cause nobody wants to die and before you pull the trigger on a cop you're going to think "hmm what will happen"

*smack* smarten up

[DEREK57]

Originally posted by 403Gemini


Cops dont put on a suit and tie and sit in an office building all day. No, instead they deal with drug addicts, crazy homeless people, drunks, prostitutes, pimps, gang bangers... but hey, when you pull yourself away from your computer and deal with that 10 hours of everyday for the rest of your life, then you can say "hey they're just people too"

there are certain laws there to "help" cops. like murdering a cop in some states is instant capital punishment in many states. why? cause nobody wants to die and before you pull the trigger on a cop you're going to think "hmm what will happen"

*smack* smarten up

And that is their choice. I appreciate and respect cops, but again remind me how they are more important than other people? They go to a job that they choose, and get paid for it. It should be that before you pull a trigger to kill ANYONE they should wonder what happens. Whats the point of having a constitution, rights, courts and jails when cops are just allowed to take the law into their own hands???

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by DEREK57


And that is their choice. I appreciate and respect cops, but again remind me how they are more important than other people? They go to a job that they choose, and get paid for it. It should be that before you pull a trigger to kill ANYONE they should wonder what happens. Whats the point of having a constitution, rights, courts and jails when cops are just allowed to take the law into their own hands???

this is a very rare case of where the cops took the "law into their own hands" and will most likely have most of the population backing them

cops are underpaid underrespected members of society. the fact is they are doing a job to protect YOU and YOUR family, and then they get killed and shot at for doing so? yet when they seek retribution on a person who wronged them, then criticized, thats just wrong. somebody kills my best friend, the cops better pick him up before i find him, cause id make sure he cant walk. anybody can take the "law into their own hands"

[BokCh0y]

regardless whether they beat him or he got the injuries from the jump, all i can say is OUCH. But hey if he killed a cop for interviewing him....then he got what he deserves....he's lucky he's alive.

[BumpinTalon]

Originally posted by DEREK57


And that is their choice. I appreciate and respect cops, but again remind me how they are more important than other people? They go to a job that they choose, and get paid for it. It should be that before you pull a trigger to kill ANYONE they should wonder what happens. Whats the point of having a constitution, rights, courts and jails when cops are just allowed to take the law into their own hands???

dude just shut up. be a cop yourself and stop your buddies next time this happens, if this whole vigilante thing is such a hot-button topic with you. people are not perfect, some people have all their wires crossed and cannot possibly reason things out like you or me can, and some people will get all their wires crossed when their buddy/partner/coworker/son/brother/cousin dies.
PUT YOURSELF IN THEIR SHOES
no matter how much people might posture about it, everybody is out for themself and those close to themself when the chips are down - they aren't going to follow the rules on some piece of paper that is in a glass case.
imagine somebody took your best friend away from you. what are you, going to send the guilty culprit a letter telling them how angry you are??

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by 403Gemini


this is a very rare case of where the cops took the "law into their own hands" and will most likely have most of the population backing them

cops are underpaid underrespected members of society. the fact is they are doing a job to protect YOU and YOUR family, and then they get killed and shot at for doing so? yet when they seek retribution on a person who wronged them, then criticized, thats just wrong. somebody kills my best friend, the cops better pick him up before i find him, cause id make sure he cant walk. anybody can take the "law into their own hands"

Interesting, since all you have to go by is a picture. Again, why is alright to throw stereotypes around when people complain about it here because they drive a car that they say the police pay too much attention to?

[Celica TVS3]

The comments are regarding the allegations of police brutality made by members of the suspect’s family. I don't think anyone is stereotyping police in this thread.

There is a difference between police stereotyping citizens and citizens making generalizations about police. The police ought to be held in higher regard by the public - and when police make generalizations about certain sectors of the population it breeds distrust and malcontent with the police force. When citizens make generalizations about police it is usually based on either publicized police abuses or direct dealings an individual has had with police in the past.

There are countless public examples of police stepping out of bounds. On a personal level I have not had many positive experiences dealing with police – I am an outstanding, polite, calm, citizen who has have never been in trouble with the law in anyway, not even traffic tickets; yet I still have a negative impression of police officers based on my personal experiences. Perhaps the police, both officers and the institution, should look into why these stereotypes are so prevalent amongst the public?

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Celica TVS3
The comments are regarding the allegations of police brutality made by members of the suspect’s family. I don't think anyone is stereotyping police in this thread.

There is a difference between police stereotyping citizens and citizens making generalizations about police. The police ought to be held in higher regard by the public - and when police make generalizations about certain sectors of the population it breeds distrust and malcontent with the police force. When citizens make generalizations about police it is usually based on either publicized police abuses or direct dealings an individual has had with police in the past.

There are countless public examples of police stepping out of bounds. On a personal level I have not had many positive experiences dealing with police – I am an outstanding, polite, calm, citizen who has have never been in trouble with the law in anyway, not even traffic tickets; yet I still have a negative impression of police officers based on my personal experiences. Perhaps the police, both officers and the institution, should look into why these stereotypes are so prevalent amongst the public?

its cause 90% of the newer cops think they can change the world by issuing tickets to everybody they pull over.

I guarantee if you get pulled over by an older officer, be polite, there is a MUCH greater chance you will get off with just a warning.

give it 5 yrs or so and when the newer cops get used to what its actually like, then it will calm down.

edit: also how can you say youve had negative experiences if you also admit youve had NO experiences with cops? :dunno: seems like a double standard to me

also bumpin talon, great post :thumbsup:

[DayGlow]

Originally posted by Celica TVS3

There is a difference between police stereotyping citizens and citizens making generalizations about police. The police ought to be held in higher regard by the public - and when police make generalizations about certain sectors of the population it breeds distrust and malcontent with the police force. When citizens make generalizations about police it is usually based on either publicized police abuses or direct dealings an individual has had with police in the past.



I'm sorry, but that's hypocritical. What you are saying is that it's alright to generalize and stereotype one way, but not another. I've met people like that. They claim that the only reason why I pulled them over is the colour of their skin or type of car they drive. Never mind that at 250m away at night all I see is a pair of headlights which I aim the laser between and they are going 25 over the limit on a city street.

I find it interesting that a sub-culture within society such as the Tuner crowd, which has a predominatly negative stereotype within society itself cannot relate to how negative stereotyping is damaging.

Much like the Police the Tuner subculture has been portrade in movies, news, and other pop-culture as reckless rebels that don't follow rules. Streetracers have killed people, so does that mean anyone driving a modified import is a racer? I'm pretty sure everyone here will say that real life is a lot different from holywood fantasy. The same is for police and police subculture.

I could say all the experiences I've had with a riced out Honda, Neon, etc has been negative because they have tailgated me or driven like idiots in traffic around me. Should I then make a generalization that since they drive a certain type of car, that all people that drive those modified cars are the same idiots. That's what you are doing

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by DayGlow


I'm sorry, but that's hypocritical. What you are saying is that it's alright to generalize and stereotype one way, but not another. I've met people like that. They claim that the only reason why I pulled them over is the colour of their skin or type of car they drive. Never mind that at 250m away at night all I see is a pair of headlights which I aim the laser between and they are going 25 over the limit on a city street.

I find it interesting that a sub-culture within society such as the Tuner crowd, which has a predominatly negative stereotype within society itself cannot relate to how negative stereotyping is damaging.

Much like the Police the Tuner subculture has been portrade in movies, news, and other pop-culture as reckless rebels that don't follow rules. Streetracers have killed people, so does that mean anyone driving a modified import is a racer? I'm pretty sure everyone here will say that real life is a lot different from holywood fantasy. The same is for police and police subculture.

I could say all the experiences I've had with a riced out Honda, Neon, etc has been negative because they have tailgated me or driven like idiots in traffic around me. Should I then make a generalization that since they drive a certain type of car, that all people that drive those modified cars are the same idiots. That's what you are doing

very well put :thumbsup: :werd:

[Celica TVS3]

I’m not making the argument that police should be stereotyped; like any other sector of society the police force is comprised of good individuals, bad individuals, and array of people in between. When an individual citizen makes generalizations about police the ramifications of their narrow mindedness have less impact on society then an officer who harbors stereotypes about a segment of the population.

The fact is that stereotypes do exist. Instead of pointing the finger of those who hold the stereotypes police should look into why these stereotypes do exist and implement a programs or policy to combat it.

Your post specifically refers to the “tuner” crowd. I have a suggestion that would rid the public roads of Friday/Saturday night street races and create positive connections between the tuner crowd and police.

To change the negative impression of police that is held by many on this forum one suggestion would be to get more involved in the “tuner” community. That could mean having police come out to race city on Friday nights to mingle with the people, even take part by racing a modified police car. (If there is a PR department where you can make suggestions you should propose this – you could champion the program)

The police department could go so far as solicit the city to pay for a race city event once a week – thus allowing a free race city night. Free race nights would have the effect of removing the Friday/Saturday night street races from public streets; as well as allowing police to meet the kids and the kids to meet the police.

-Aaron

[DEREK57]

Originally posted by 403Gemini


this is a very rare case of where the cops took the "law into their own hands" and will most likely have most of the population backing them

cops are underpaid underrespected members of society. the fact is they are doing a job to protect YOU and YOUR family, and then they get killed and shot at for doing so? yet when they seek retribution on a person who wronged them, then criticized, thats just wrong. somebody kills my best friend, the cops better pick him up before i find him, cause id make sure he cant walk. anybody can take the "law into their own hands"

Im sure we'd all like to do that, but the fact of the matter is we dont have the right. Just because the population automatically sides with the police does not make them right?

[DEREK57]

Originally posted by BumpinTalon


dude just shut up. be a cop yourself and stop your buddies next time this happens, if this whole vigilante thing is such a hot-button topic with you. people are not perfect, some people have all their wires crossed and cannot possibly reason things out like you or me can, and some people will get all their wires crossed when their buddy/partner/coworker/son/brother/cousin dies.
PUT YOURSELF IN THEIR SHOES
no matter how much people might posture about it, everybody is out for themself and those close to themself when the chips are down - they aren't going to follow the rules on some piece of paper that is in a glass case.
imagine somebody took your best friend away from you. what are you, going to send the guilty culprit a letter telling them how angry you are??

Okay, so someone kills my best friend. I go and pistol whip him to a bloody pulp, and then he gets arrested. Is that right? I mean when do this meaningless 'peice of paper' matter then? Rights only exist when cops decide they do? Or are they just overlooked whenever a cop is emotionally attached to a case? The fact of the matter is cops are not above the law, no matter how much they sacrifice and how much danger they are in. I would hope the murder goes to jail, is never free again, and gets the worst of it in there. But there cops deserve at least some sort of slap on the wrist. Either the law is absolute, or its not, and I would like a world where it is absolute.

[DayGlow]

I'd love to hang out at race city during Friday night races, but unfortunatly that is also prime time for being the busiest part of my week if I'm working nights :D

But on another note, personally I don't see why the police should 'pay' for people so that they don't break the law. Friday Night races are already there, are quite affordable, especially compared to the cost that is sunk into these cars. My understanding is that a lot of people don't want to meet the safety specs of the track so they don't race. I don't think a free night would change that.

Also if the city sponsored the event, they would be a very big target for lawsuits if someone crashes their car. Lawsuits are a very real thing in society today and large organizations such as CPS and the City of Calgary are very big targets.

[Celica TVS3]

It would be the city / corporate sponsers that would pay for the events, not the CPS. I think the liability issue can be minimized - its pretty much the same concept as the city skate park, except with police skate boarding, or in this case racing, along side the kids.

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Celica TVS3
It would be the city / corporate sponsers that would pay for the events, not the CPS. I think the liability issue can be minimized - its pretty much the same concept as the city skate park, except with police skate boarding, or in this case racing, along side the kids.

day glow brings up a good point though, why should the city waste tax payers dollars to promote people not to break the law? seems like a waste of funding to me. :dunno:

[Celica TVS3]

Originally posted by 403Gemini


day glow brings up a good point though, why should the city waste tax payers dollars to promote people not to break the law? seems like a waste of funding to me. :dunno:

The fact is people do break the law. If the goal is to prevent people from speeding/racing down public streets it’s going to require some public funding; that funding may take the form of an increased police budget to have more police dedicated to the issue. Or it may take police away from other cases. Even if they spend no money trying to prevent the problem the tax payer still gets the bill - the province, ie tax payers, is going to pay the hospital bill for that crash cars or harm pedestrians on the street….

This offers a change to reduce the number of people racing on the street which will cost the taxpayer less in the long run.

[403Gemini]

free night at race city will bring more people to race city for a safer environment once a week = true

free night at race city will also give more people a taste of what its like to race against other people = true

possible side effect of that is if they enjoy racing at race city on the ONE free night (lets say, a thursday) then whats stopping them from street racing now that they know its fun on the other 6 nights of the week?

[Toma]

It has ZERO to do with laws and safety.

Its all about the cash. Safety and "law" is secondary.

Why else do you get a $200 ticket for not having your license or registration on you?

Why else do you have so many "vague laws" that leave it upto the cop?

Why is it mandatory to wear seatbelts in the city when all studies clearly show that at under 60km/hr, seat belts result in more injury.....

Street racing is not a big safety concern. Overblown IMHO.

[Celica TVS3]

Originally posted by 403Gemini
free night at race city will bring more people to race city for a safer environment once a week = true

free night at race city will also give more people a taste of what its like to race against other people = true

possible side effect of that is if they enjoy racing at race city on the ONE free night (lets say, a thursday) then whats stopping them from street racing now that they know its fun on the other 6 nights of the week?

There is nothing stopping anyone from racing any night. The goal, as I had already stated is two pronged. The first is to reduce the organized illegal street racing events that occur on the weekends. The second is to promote positive relations between police and the racing crowed. I think it’s fairly safe to say that the most people that go to the weekend races are young drivers, many still in high school. Therefore the kids would likely only be able to gather in large numbers on weekends. Logistically it easier to gather a large group of people together on one of those weekend nights than to have it spread out over both nights of the weekend.

If a free, city sponsored, race was held one of the weekend nights the goal would be to pull the kids from foothills industrial park into race city. The other night would be occupied with other social gatherings – I know back in high school my girlfriend would not have let me drive around aimless on both weekend nights.

Furthermore the police would be able to interact with those involved in “tuner” culture. They would know the kids by name, know their cars, and know their personalities. The reverse is true; the kids would get to know the police. Ideally this would breed mutual respect and understanding between the two parties. Racers would be more tolerant of police because they wouldn’t just be “some stupid cop” and Police would be more understanding of the racers concerns – such as being upset over getting a ticket for having JDM clear side markers on an imported JDM vehicle. The police would also have the added bonus of being in direct touch with people who know where, when, the racers will be. And the racing kids would be less likely to organize races on the streets knowing the police know when and where they would be.

[403Gemini]

some pretty good points celica tvs3, i do agree that both the police and the tuner crowd sorta need to meet on a middle ground and mingle to understand each other more, rather than these stupid stereotypes floating around.

*shrugs* maybe it is something or an idea worth promoting. even if they did it bi weekly itd be worthwhile

[StupidWade]

That would also be a great time for the cops to hand out 1000 improper equipment (exhaust/licence plate cover/blue signal light) tickets in one place at one time. I'm sure they'd be all for the idea.

They could make their quota for three months all in about three hours.

[DEREK57]

Originally posted by smartcar
How do you know? It's just a photo. Did you see the Clint Eastwood/Dirty Harry movie where the guy pays someone to beat him up so he can allege police brutality? I think it might have been the first one...

Well Im not sure what they choose to beat him with (Im sure pistol or club was the weapon of choice), but you dont wanna get bruised knuckles. And its not like that happens from a fall where you get up after and run three blocks. Its not like he had a chance to fake it, they most definetly did it to him.

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by DEREK57


Okay, so someone kills my best friend. I go and pistol whip him to a bloody pulp, and then he gets arrested. Is that right? I mean when do this meaningless 'peice of paper' matter then? Rights only exist when cops decide they do? Or are they just overlooked whenever a cop is emotionally attached to a case? The fact of the matter is cops are not above the law, no matter how much they sacrifice and how much danger they are in. I would hope the murder goes to jail, is never free again, and gets the worst of it in there. But there cops deserve at least some sort of slap on the wrist. Either the law is absolute, or its not, and I would like a world where it is absolute.

If I was a police officer, and you admited that you pistol whipped the guy - not in self defense - but as a form of retribution: I would arrest you. I wouldn't sympathise with the murdering bastard, and I would probably applaud you in private, but you are right about the 'everyone has rights' thing, and so I would definitely arrest you.

However, if I showed up to the scene of the pistol whipping and the you keep your mouth shut, so that it's his word against yours....I'd have no problems finding that there is insufficient evidence to arrest you.

IMO, in both hypothetical situations, justice is being served, if you know what I mean.