Cobalt SS dyno pull- 217whp

[bspot]

The difference between the 2 runs was a drop in filter. Here's a sheet, and a vid. Discuss!

http://www.modernperformance.com/gm/cobalt_dyno_session1.jpg

Vid:
http://www.modernperformance.com/gm/modern_perf_cobaltss_dyno.wmv

LINK FIXED!

[BokCh0y]

link no worky :dunno:

[habsfan]

video link no work, but that is one damn impressive dyno run for a "205hp" car. looks like chevy took a chapter out of dodge's book and under rated the SS :thumbsup:

[bspot]

Sorry guys, link is fixed now.

[BokCh0y]

whoa fuck that is pretty impressive. GM :thumbsup:

[GoChris]

damn, thats a tad higher than I expected! impressive.

[finboy]

not bad, still i'd go with the srt as it is turbo, and much easier to make more power with.

[1badPT]

~4 extra hp and <2 lb.ft of torque difference? :dunno:

and I would still take the dodge SRT-4 over the supercharged ecotec cars. If GM would turbo it and bring the numbers closer to the SRT-4, then it would be a harder decision.

[Honda_002]

that was dissapointing
the car was super nice but I thought they were RWD:cry:

[Aleks]

Needs more boost and needs to rev higher. They should have gone turbo. Good on GM for doing FI though!

[JCX]

It's going to be a nice little driver, and should be a GREAT value. They are like $25K!!! :werd: :eek:

[bspot]

Originally posted by Aleks
Needs more boost and needs to rev higher. They should have gone turbo. Good on GM for doing FI though!

Rumor is that one of the factory offered upgrades will be a reflash with a higher rev limit (still making power at the redline).

There was just a big SRT-4 vs SS in one of the magazines that was pretty interesting. They came out with equal 1/4 mile times, but the SRT had way higher trap speeds. SS outhandled it however.

[JCX]

Originally posted by bspot


Rumor is that one of the factory offered upgrades will be a reflash with a higher rev limit (still making power at the redline).

There was just a big SRT-4 vs SS in one of the magazines that was pretty interesting. They came out with equal 1/4 mile times, but the SRT had way higher trap speeds. SS outhandled it however.

It will be interesting if GM does support it. There are all kinds of "rumors" but no "facts". That little ecotec is pretty stout, but the question is how far can it go on that little blower.

I sincerely think the Cobalt will be a mid 14 second car stock, which is really not bad. Always good to have a reasonably priced factory FI car.

The spolier looks like complete shit though.

[habsfan]

Originally posted by JCX
There are all kinds of &quot;rumors&quot; but no &quot;facts&quot;.....

...The spolier looks like complete shit though.

another "rumor" ive heard is actually a higher output version of the cobalt SS with an approx 240hp turbo ecotec, and ive also heard that that same engine could make its way into a high performance solstice/sky.

and yes, that spoiler is horrible :barf:

[heavyD]

Pretty respectable numbers IMO. Please GM don't make a gay Sunfire/Sunbird version.:( Riced out Sunfires have to be the gayest vehicles evarrrrr.

[GoChris]

Originally posted by bspot


Rumor is that one of the factory offered upgrades will be a reflash with a higher rev limit (still making power at the redline).

There was just a big SRT-4 vs SS in one of the magazines that was pretty interesting. They came out with equal 1/4 mile times, but the SRT had way higher trap speeds. SS outhandled it however.

ya it did come have equal times, but they must have beed a tad shitty at driving the SRT-4 since thats the highest time in any magazine so far.

it was a bit weird, i dont have the #s in front of me but when they tested it. it did 0-100mph faster than they did the 1/4 in, and trapped at like 100mph. so...if that makes sense they ran the 1/4 slower than even they (magazine driver) have driven it for another test.

(no im not saying the srt4 can nevah lose! just I think GM paid nice sponsorship to the magazine to make their product look good)

[bspot]

Originally posted by rlde.us


ya it did come have equal times, but they must have beed a tad shitty at driving the SRT-4 since thats the highest time in any magazine so far.

it was a bit weird, i dont have the #s in front of me but when they tested it. it did 0-100mph faster than they did the 1/4 in, and trapped at like 100mph. so...if that makes sense they ran the 1/4 slower than even they (magazine driver) have driven it for another test.

(no im not saying the srt4 can nevah lose! just I think GM paid nice sponsorship to the magazine to make their product look good)

Well I think the slow 0-60 and the high trap speed tells you whoever was driving the SRT didn't know how to launch it. I think the SRT should have a quicker 1/4 for sure, and deffinately more potential.

[habsfan]

in the article you guys are talking about, if you actually read it instead of just jumpin straight for the box numbers, they say in the article that there were issues with the SRT-4 and that it was the slowest one they had ever tested.

[Nix87]

Originally posted by heavyD
Pretty respectable numbers IMO. Please GM don't make a gay Sunfire/Sunbird version.:( Riced out Sunfires have to be the gayest vehicles evarrrrr.

I think were safe from that. Thats what the Saturn Ion Redline is for anyways :barf:

[Weapon_R]

Should be a good seller, especially if GM prices it right. 217whp is awesome, and the Cobalt is a pretty good looking car.

[Supa Dexta]

I liked the way it looked in the adds, but when I seen the first one on the road I wasn't really impressed...

:dunno:

[bspot]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
I liked the way it looked in the adds, but when I seen the first one on the road I wasn't really impressed...

:dunno:

You haven't seen one on the road yet ;)

[k_dawg]

Wow impressive, I wasn't expecting those numbers. IMO I would take the cobalt, but the SRT-4 does have a turbo hmmm what to pick :dunno: .

[GoChris]

Originally posted by k_dawg
Wow impressive, I wasn't expecting those numbers. IMO I would take the cobalt, but the SRT-4 does have a turbo hmmm what to pick :dunno: .

and the SRT-4 has about 60 more tq stock and much easier (at the moment) to upgrade thanks to mopar.

[ade99]

Originally posted by bspot


Rumor is that one of the factory offered upgrades will be a reflash with a higher rev limit (still making power at the redline).

There was just a big SRT-4 vs SS in one of the magazines that was pretty interesting. They came out with equal 1/4 mile times, but the SRT had way higher trap speeds. SS outhandled it however.

This can be attributed to the fact that the SRT is very hard to launch on street tires due to so much torque. Not sure what the 60ft times were but the SRT probably had a horrible one and then it started to catch up once it hooked up.

[bspot]

What are stock tires on the SRT anyways?

[Aleks]

Be that as it may, its not an excuse. I'm sure there are ways around that. Practice, better clutch, tires... etc. My car is hard to launch and If i could somehow get a 1.9s 60 foot I'd be in 13s easily.

I'm sure you wouldn't want less tq to make your launching easier right? Anyway SS is a nice little car from what I've seen. Bring on wrx vs srt4 vs ss vs type s threads.


Originally posted by ade99


This can be attributed to the fact that the SRT is very hard to launch on street tires due to so much torque. Not sure what the 60ft times were but the SRT probably had a horrible one and then it started to catch up once it hooked up.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by bspot
What are stock tires on the SRT anyways?

G-force TA KDW II's.

[Dirty_SOHC]

Originally posted by heavyD


G-force TA KDW II's.

Those are pretty decent tires IMO!

[finboy]

Originally posted by Dirty_SOHC


Those are pretty decent tires IMO!

they are, but dodge cheaped out and went with a 205 _ _ 17 tire size though :rofl:

[BumpinTalon]

that is some really good stock power.. plus, there is a bypass valve that kicks in and lowers the boost, take it out and you get an extra few psi since I remember reading somewhere (in an article about the Redline) it lowers boost at high rpm from 8psi to ~6, and then add some lightweight rims and you get another 0.3 seconds off the 0-60
I'd rather have a supercharged car over a turbo car ANY DAY

[finboy]

Originally posted by BumpinTalon

I'd rather have a supercharged car over a turbo car ANY DAY

j00 crazy mang, for modding potential on 4 cyl's, turbo > blower hands down

[GoChris]

Originally posted by finboy


they are, but dodge cheaped out and went with a 205 _ _ 17 tire size though :rofl:

ya, when I get new tires im definately going to a 225

[benyl]

Originally posted by habsfan
in the article you guys are talking about, if you actually read it instead of just jumpin straight for the box numbers, they say in the article that there were issues with the SRT-4 and that it was the slowest one they had ever tested.

:werd:

They were saying that the SRT4 was really green. 1200 miles or so.

I hope the next Neon looks better than the current one. That is the only reason I would hesitate in getting an SRT4. The cobalt wouldn't be so bad if it didn't look like a 4x4.

[Aleks]

There will be no new neon.

[Weapon_R]

:werd: The SRT is gone. It's going to be an excellent buy for whoever bought a 2005. A low mileage srt will sell for a premium for years to come.

[BumpinTalon]

Originally posted by finboy


j00 crazy mang, for modding potential on 4 cyl's, turbo &gt; blower hands down

for modding potential, yes
but the power delivery from your average supercharger owns the average turbo

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by BumpinTalon

I'd rather have a supercharged car over a turbo car ANY DAY

No you wouldn't :)

Factory tuned, a turbo vehicle has SO MUCH more potential and is just as reliable. There are so many limitations to a sc, its not even funny. You think its easy to upgrade your pulleys, but when you hit a certain limit, your blower becomes inefficient. And a good turbo setup will usually result in little to no lag.

This happens with turbo too, but you just have to swap out the compressor. With an SC, once you hit its upper limit, you have to swap out the entire unit.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


No you wouldn't :)

Factory tuned, a turbo vehicle has SO MUCH more potential and is just as reliable. There are so many limitations to a sc, its not even funny. You think its easy to upgrade your pulleys, but when you hit a certain limit, your blower becomes inefficient. And a good turbo setup will usually result in little to no lag.

This happens with turbo too, but you just have to swap out the compressor. With an SC, once you hit its upper limit, you have to swap out the entire unit.

I don't think that it is easy to upgrade a compressor either. Most people swap out the Turbo the whole turbo as well, so I don't see your point on that.

There is a compromise in both systems... I think that has been established in many threads.

Also, I don't think anyone is going to pay more for a low mileage SRT4. Most of them are going to be abused and mileage won't have any correlation.

[ade99]

Originally posted by Aleks
Be that as it may, its not an excuse. I'm sure there are ways around that. Practice, better clutch, tires... etc. My car is hard to launch and If i could somehow get a 1.9s 60 foot I'd be in 13s easily.

I'm sure you wouldn't want less tq to make your launching easier right? Anyway SS is a nice little car from what I've seen. Bring on wrx vs srt4 vs ss vs type s threads.



Didn't mean to make that an excuse. Easy way to fix that is better and wider tires/rims (SRT has 205s) or just some slicks.

[Supa Dexta]

Originally posted by bspot


You haven't seen one on the road yet ;)

Are they not out yet? I'm sure I've seen one but hardly paid any attention to it, except to note I didn't like the look of it as much as I thought I would have.. I didn't really have any interest in the car, so I have no idea if they are on the roads yet.. But I SWEAR I seen one to the best of my memory (I was right behind him and could read cobalt) would have been 2-3 weeks ago, on crowchild around 33rd ave, I turned off there though.. I really can't remember though (not trying to make anything up) this bugs me not being able to remember it myself, especially if they aren't supposed to be on the road.. I think at the time it crossed my mind it looked like a neon/corolla mix... I give up, I can't remember.....

:dunno:

[Aleks]

Cobalt yes, but not Cobalt SS. It was probably one of the ordinary rentals :)

[bspot]

Well a black cobalt SS just hit the streets today :D

Its been pretty fun so far. I know i'm supposed to be breaking in the clutch, but chirping the Perelli P Zeros from 2nd to 3rd was just too much fun :drool:

I definatlely don't think its the best looking car out there, but I got a few thousand off with hook ups, and nothing is close to that performance for $24K.

[Weapon_R]

You got it for 24k after all taxes?

Lined up against an SRT yet ;)

[bspot]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
You got it for 24k after all taxes?

Yup! Gm Supplier discount, $1000 we're sorry you bought an oldsmobile, plus new grad (left over from 2 years ago).


Originally posted by Weapon_R
Lined up against an SRT yet ;)

Hahah.. no.. I'm scared! Plus most ECOTEC engines are notorious for getting significantly faster after breakin, not sure if its true for this one.

[Freebs]

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
that is some really good stock power.. plus, there is a bypass valve that kicks in and lowers the boost, take it out and you get an extra few psi since I remember reading somewhere (in an article about the Redline) it lowers boost at high rpm from 8psi to ~6, and then add some lightweight rims and you get another 0.3 seconds off the 0-60
I'd rather have a supercharged car over a turbo car ANY DAY

the By pass valve is only opened when the car is cruzing.... if you have it at WOT the by pass valve stays closed... i have the Eaton M45 S/C on my car and i think so does the Cobalt and it is there as a fuel economy feature

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


No you wouldn't :)

Factory tuned, a turbo vehicle has SO MUCH more potential and is just as reliable. There are so many limitations to a sc, its not even funny. You think its easy to upgrade your pulleys, but when you hit a certain limit, your blower becomes inefficient. And a good turbo setup will usually result in little to no lag.

This happens with turbo too, but you just have to swap out the compressor. With an SC, once you hit its upper limit, you have to swap out the entire unit.
The vortech unit supports upto 575hp. Hardly a "limit". At that point i think your problem wouldn't be how can i make more power, but how can i put this power to the ground. Superchargers are a great alternative to turbochargers for someone looking to make safe power gains. Its unfortuante people endorse turbos like sheep.

[Freebs]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing

Its unfortuante people endorse turbos like sheep.

Yea i am not sure why every one thinks Turbos are soo much better... not saying they are bad.. but im not saying they are better then S/C's.... Sure turboes now aday have very little lag in power but there alwasy will be, where as with the S/C you have power as soon as you push the pedal down...

[Supa Dexta]

I think the main reason is, people hear that it takes power to run the supercharger and view it like an air conditioner or something, where you can notice it robbing power... not so little sheep....

:burnout:

[ade99]

Originally posted by bspot


Yup! Gm Supplier discount, $1000 we're sorry you bought an oldsmobile, plus new grad (left over from 2 years ago)

24K? That's a really good deal. The wife really wants a red one after seeing it on TV. She could probably get the new grad discount too on top of her CP Rail discount (CPR workers get a discount bec. GM uses CPR to freight their vehicles).
I think its time for a test drive:)

[A790]

I was looking at one yesterday. It was black, at Jack carters. Already sold (I think I know who too ;)).

In my opinion, absolutely beautiful cars. A good set of coilovers to drop it and it's stunning. Not too flashy, just the right lines...

Can't wait to get my hands on one... in a few years.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing

The vortech unit supports upto 575hp. Hardly a &quot;limit&quot;. At that point i think your problem wouldn't be how can i make more power, but how can i put this power to the ground. Superchargers are a great alternative to turbochargers for someone looking to make safe power gains. Its unfortuante people endorse turbos like sheep.

thats great when you are talking about a v8, but when it comes to 4 cyls, superchargers are a HUGE limiting factor. people endorse turbo's like sheep because they are proven to work if you want to make big power on a small motor.


Originally posted by Freebs


Yea i am not sure why every one thinks Turbos are soo much better... not saying they are bad.. but im not saying they are better then S/C's.... Sure turboes now aday have very little lag in power but there alwasy will be, where as with the S/C you have power as soon as you push the pedal down...

take a ride in a new srt4, there is NO lag whatsoever, its kind of creepy really, lol.

[bspot]

Originally posted by ade99


24K? That's a really good deal. The wife really wants a red one after seeing it on TV. She could probably get the new grad discount too on top of her CP Rail discount (CPR workers get a discount bec. GM uses CPR to freight their vehicles).
I think its time for a test drive:)

I actually used to work for CPR and the discount is the same, its about as good of a deal as you can get on them. In the states they aren't honoring the supplier discount (what CPR has) and some dealers are even marking up the cars. :rolleyes:

Good luck getting a test drive though, pretty much everyone that is coming into the city has been sold long ago. Test drive an Ion redline to get a feel for them.

[bspot]

Originally posted by A790
I was looking at one yesterday. It was black, at Jack carters. Already sold (I think I know who too ;)).



Actually I got mine at GSL, so some other bastard is gonna be running around in one. :cry:

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by finboy


thats great when you are talking about a v8, but when it comes to 4 cyls, superchargers are a HUGE limiting factor. people endorse turbo's like sheep because they are proven to work if you want to make big power on a small motor.



take a ride in a new srt4, there is NO lag whatsoever, its kind of creepy really, lol.

There are guys pulling 489whp out of the vortech chargers, does that mean its not proven to work? This was done on a B series engine.

If you do own a turbo car, or a srt-4 i'd love to take a shot at in my car. Should be an easy win for you seeing as though i have a limiting factor, a supercharger.

[Freebs]

ahah yes people dont understand the technolegy (sp?) that has gone into superchargers now adays is huge... and superchargers are made for little 4cyl. engines.... and like Chandler_Racing said about guys pulling 489+hp with superchargers... dosent look to limiting to me? but i do know what you are talking about finboy, in that the srt-4 has very little turbo lag....

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing

The vortech unit supports upto 575hp. Hardly a &quot;limit&quot;. At that point i think your problem wouldn't be how can i make more power, but how can i put this power to the ground. Superchargers are a great alternative to turbochargers for someone looking to make safe power gains. Its unfortuante people endorse turbos like sheep.

:rolleyes:

This sheep ran a supercharger for a year. Do you have any data on this 575hp vortech charger?

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


:rolleyes:

This sheep ran a supercharger for a year. Do you have any data on this 575hp vortech charger?

Roll your eyes all you want. Pretty much tells me all i need to know. As for the data I don't no why i'm bother showing you because after all its to "limited". Anyways here is your proof. If it makes you feel any better about yourself when i said 489whp i was mistaken by 10whp. This setup was done with a b16a head.

http://members.shaw.ca/ryanchandler/rb1.jpg
http://members.shaw.ca/ryanchandler/ramair479hpxlschart.gif

[BlkMaxima]

If I'm not mistaken it is pretty much the same car as a saturn redline coupe right? I work at the saturn dealership in the automall and the Redline coupe is a pretty quick car but I still think the SRT-4 would take it.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing


There are guys pulling 489whp out of the vortech chargers, does that mean its not proven to work? This was done on a B series engine.

If you do own a turbo car, or a srt-4 i'd love to take a shot at in my car. Should be an easy win for you seeing as though i have a limiting factor, a supercharger.

http://www.metalexmotorworx.com/projects/mr2/mr2.html
lets see a supercharged 4 cyl do that ;) see how easy it is to post up dyno queen #'s. lets take a more local look, check out alberta's top 10 fastest sport compacts...
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49861
now how many of those are supercharged?

as for srt, hell no, to rich for my blood, i just drive a turbo dodge like all the other sheep :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Aleks]

I'll stick with my turbo and loads of TQ.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing


Roll your eyes all you want. Pretty much tells me all i need to know. As for the data I don't no why i'm bother showing you because after all its to &quot;limited&quot;. Anyways here is your proof. If it makes you feel any better about yourself when i said 489whp i was mistaken by 10whp. This setup was done with a b16a head.



I'm rolling my eyes at your ignorance, but thanks for finding a dyno of a completely unrelated scenario for me :thumbsup: Anyways, keep thinking that superchargers are generally as unlimited at turbos - argue all you want, the fact remains that its easier to increase boost and swap out turbos than it is to do so in a supercharger.

PS - boost is boost, regardless of whether it comes from a SC or Turbo. It isn't "safer" in the form of a supercharger :rofl:

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by finboy


http://www.metalexmotorworx.com/projects/mr2/mr2.html
lets see a supercharged 4 cyl do that ;) see how easy it is to post up dyno queen #'s. lets take a more local look, check out alberta's top 10 fastest sport compacts...
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&amp;threadid=49861
now how many of those are supercharged?

as for srt, hell no, to rich for my blood, i just drive a turbo dodge like all the other sheep :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Dyno queens? Thats car hit over 190 mph and they are now going for 200mph.

Well then lets not post others numbers. Ill run your turbo dodge anytime you want, after the end of may. If you beat me ill agree turbos are better. By the way do you know which wheels drive a FWD car, 800whp would be very hard to make traction; hell, even 479whp would be a bitch to get to the ground.

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


I'm rolling my eyes at your ignorance, but thanks for finding a dyno of a completely unrelated scenario for me :thumbsup: Anyways, keep thinking that superchargers are generally as unlimited at turbos - argue all you want, the fact remains that its easier to increase boost and swap out turbos than it is to do so in a supercharger.

PS - boost is boost, regardless of whether it comes from a SC or Turbo. It isn't &quot;safer&quot; in the form of a supercharger :rofl:
Actually not exactly, the ignorant person would be the one who runs his mouth about something he has never even used and if he did use it and didnt like it than it was just poor setup. I defended the position that SC are a great alternative to TC position. I think its safe to say you used a jrsc not the vortech which makes boost at low rpm and dies out in the top end. The vortech unit is a centrifugal and will build boost in the higher rpms. Considering i have a b16a engine and the vortech 10psi charger the engine isnt really that unrelated. I also have a b20 bottom end which im gonna build up here within the next year or so. That and having a 2000 pound car will make for a quick 1/4 mile time. When did i say that boost isn't easier to turn up boost it a TC car over a SC car? Quit reading what you want to hear. I never once said TC aren't good or produce don't huge numbers, i just pointed out SC aren't as "limited' as you make them out to be.

[Chandler_Racing]

Weapon R Once again quit reading what you want to hear i said safe alternative to turbocharging.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing
Weapon R Once again quit reading what you want to hear i said safe alternative to turbocharging.

And i'm telling you that its the same shit, regardless of whether it comes from a turbo or supercharger. A supercharger is NOT ANY SAFER than a turbo. For a guy who has an FI vehicle, you sure have a lot to learn about it...

Repeat after me. A supercharger is not a safer alternative to turbo. There is no difference, boost is boost. Whether it comes from a supercharger or turbo.

[Chandler_Racing]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


And i'm telling you that its the same shit, regardless of whether it comes from a turbo or supercharger. A supercharger is NOT ANY SAFER than a turbo. For a guy who has an FI vehicle, you sure have a lot to learn about it...

Repeat after me. A supercharger is not a safer alternative to turbo. There is no difference, boost is boost. Whether it comes from a supercharger or turbo.
Ok here is the problem. They referred to it in jr high as reading comprehension ( you might have missed those classes). "A safe alternative means": Its a good alternative to TC and can still be safe. As opposed to a 150 shot, which some may argue is not for a stock honda engine.

As you so poorly misinterpret my wording: "A supercharger is safer than a turbo" is not what i said. (notice my wording (SAFE) as opposed to your wording safer.

I also own a FI vehicle and although by no means am I a master engine builder i have a general knowledge. I'm learning setup from someone who has built race engines since you've been in diapers.

[Freebs]

I dont want to get to involved in this... but if you take a civic runing say 10psi on a Vortec supercharger and other same civic running 10psi on a turbo... and they both race in a 1/4mile i have my money on the supercharger... more tq and hp off the line then the turbo car... sure the turbo car will build up slightly more tq over the length of the 1/4mile, but by that time the s/c'd car would have already built all the tq up and will be gone....there is no way around turbo lag... you will alwasy have it...how big of lag you can adjust but it will still be there. Dont get me wrong i love turboed cars to... i drive both a supercharged car (4cyl. 2.4L 6psi) and turbocharged car ( 6cyl. 3.8L 25psi) and i love them both.. its just a personal preference for what you want i guess... i dont see one being greater then the other.

[Freebs]

double post again you can delet this one.

[GoChris]

Originally posted by bspot
Well a black cobalt SS just hit the streets today :D

Its been pretty fun so far. I know i'm supposed to be breaking in the clutch, but chirping the Perelli P Zeros from 2nd to 3rd was just too much fun :drool:

I definatlely don't think its the best looking car out there, but I got a few thousand off with hook ups, and nothing is close to that performance for $24K.

im not trying to start anything, but my srt-4 was $24k also. so bang for buck the coblat is a good deal, just not the best. so something IS close to that performance, and a tad better, for $24k.

[Freebs]

Originally posted by rlde.us


im not trying to start anything, but my srt-4 was $24k also. so bang for buck the coblat is a good deal, just not the best. so something IS close to that performance, and a tad better, for $24k.

humm i wouldnt say that... Cobalt handles better then the SRT-4... also comes in 2 door... (granted i think the srt-4 is the only car that can be in 4 door and still look nice)

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by Aleks
I'll stick with my turbo and loads of TQ.

Your a really nice guy, and to show you what torque is I will be happy to meet you at a 403 meet and take you for a spin. :)

[finboy]

Originally posted by Chandler_Racing


Well then lets not post others numbers. Ill run your turbo dodge anytime you want, after the end of may. If you beat me ill agree turbos are better. By the way do you know which wheels drive a FWD car, 800whp would be very hard to make traction; hell, even 479whp would be a bitch to get to the ground.

june sounds fine to me, i'll be sure to drag this thread up and post #'s, as far as power and fwd go, believe me, i know what traction issues it can cause, a near stock turbo dodge (3 inch exhaust, slightly larger intercooler) with about 18 psi can easily make 300 ft/lbs of torque to the wheels, and thats on a POS factory t3:rofl:


Originally posted by Freebs
I dont want to get to involved in this... but if you take a civic runing say 10psi on a Vortec supercharger and other same civic running 10psi on a turbo... and they both race in a 1/4mile i have my money on the supercharger... more tq and hp off the line then the turbo car... sure the turbo car will build up slightly more tq over the length of the 1/4mile, but by that time the s/c'd car would have already built all the tq up and will be gone....there is no way around turbo lag... you will alwasy have it...how big of lag you can adjust but it will still be there. Dont get me wrong i love turboed cars to... i drive both a supercharged car (4cyl. 2.4L 6psi) and turbocharged car ( 6cyl. 3.8L 25psi) and i love them both.. its just a personal preference for what you want i guess... i dont see one being greater then the other.

psi as a rating is deceptive, its more about the amount of air that the turbo will flow at that PSI level

for further explinaton see here
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85089

[Freebs]

Yes i know higher psi numbers arent what you need to look at but its a 4cyl supercharged sunfire and a 6cyl turbocharged Buick GNX... so yea there still is quite a difference...

[bspot]

Originally posted by rlde.us


im not trying to start anything, but my srt-4 was $24k also. so bang for buck the coblat is a good deal, just not the best. so something IS close to that performance, and a tad better, for $24k.

See you in the corners ;)

I'm guessing you got your SRT after it had been on the lot for a year? or was it 24K for a new model?

I'm doubt that you could have gotten an SRT in the first month they were out for 24K.

Either way, I really don't give a fuck, SRT-4's and Cobalt SS's both seem like pretty fun cars for a reasonable price to me.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by Toms-SC


Your a really nice guy, and to show you what torque is I will be happy to meet you at a 403 meet and take you for a spin. :)

LOL, I'm sure my little 4 cyl can't compare. I learned my lesson about dissplacement when I tried to race a Corvette LOL :drool:
But yeah I'm always up for a spin :thumbsup:

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by rlde.us


im not trying to start anything, but my srt-4 was $24k also. so bang for buck the coblat is a good deal, just not the best. so something IS close to that performance, and a tad better, for $24k.

24k after all taxes?

[calgary350z]

any pics of your black SS?

[Freebs]

Originally posted by Aleks


LOL, I'm sure my little 4 cyl can't compare. I learned my lesson about dissplacement when I tried to race a Corvette LOL :drool:
But yeah I'm always up for a spin :thumbsup:

lol yea dissplacement ushally will always prevale. even with boost...

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by Aleks


LOL, I'm sure my little 4 cyl can't compare. I learned my lesson about dissplacement when I tried to race a Corvette LOL :drool:
But yeah I'm always up for a spin :thumbsup:

While I'd like to agree with you, I can't! Your 'little 4 cyl' would kill me. As per displacement I've only got a 3.8L V6 with an Eaton M90 Supercharger. :) I'll introduce myself next time I see you at Race City.

[Freebs]

ahaha by any chance are you driving a Grand Prix? if so i have been in one all done up, and people can say all they want about superchargers not having power ..... but you will take that all back after a ride in a GTP Grand Prix...

[finboy]

Originally posted by Freebs
ahaha by any chance are you driving a Grand Prix? if so i have been in one all done up, and people can say all they want about superchargers not having power ..... but you will take that all back after a ride in a GTP Grand Prix...

superchargers can make power, but on smaller displacement it is a much better idea to have a turbo as it eats less of your power and you still have potential to make MORE POWER. the reason the GTP is that quick is because it is a 3.8L with a supercharger, the motor has more then enough grunt to make up for the paracitic drain of the supercharger, but would still be able to make more power with a turbo.

toms-sc has a thunderbird supercoupe

[Freebs]

finboy... i know where your coming from with the s/c taking power to make power and what not... but alot of these people with smaller displacement engines have built them up to make like 175hp before putting the s/c on.... and vortech superchargers are pretty efficiant in that they dont take much power at all to run... My roots type supercharger on the other hand does take a fair amount of power to run and gets heat soak very easy... so it depends on what supercharger you are talking about..... only reason i put the Roots type supercharger on was because it was from GM... and GM made every thing so that it would be basically like it came from the dealership supercharged...

[finboy]

Originally posted by Freebs
finboy... i know where your coming from with the s/c taking power to make power and what not... but alot of these people with smaller displacement engines have built them up to make like 175hp before putting the s/c on.... and vortech superchargers are pretty efficiant in that they dont take much power at all to run... My roots type supercharger on the other hand does take a fair amount of power to run and gets heat soak very easy... so it depends on what supercharger you are talking about..... only reason i put the Roots type supercharger on was because it was from GM... and GM made every thing so that it would be basically like it came from the dealership...

i realize a centrifugal charger doesn't rob as much power, but it still takes much more then a turbo would, plus if you feel the need to up the boost (and honestly, who is ever happy with their current boost level) then it is a much bigger hassle.

its not that everyone that has a turbo is a sheep, its more like the benefits of a supercharger just don't stack up against a proper turbo set up. its more expensive, harder to up the boost, really caps off the amount of power you can make, and are a lot harder to find. why buy something more expensive when you can build a good turbo setup for much lest and go much faster :dunno:

[Freebs]

More expensive? for the supercharger to my door and in the car it cost me $2800.... how much do turbo kits run? benifits of a supercharger is there is 0... none. nilll. nota lag in power... your car dynoes at 230hp at the wheels you have 230hp at the wheels as soon as you put the pedal down... and as for how much power you can make... its not all that hard if you have the right set up... we are putting a Vortech supercharger on our 2002 Trans am either this year or next and at 7psi it will be around 580hp... thats just a 7psi.... dosent look like too much of a cap to me..... Turbos definatly do have their advantages (like i said before i drive a turbod car too) but superchargers also have advantages over turbos as well.... i am not saying one is better then the other... but they both are equally as good if you have the right set up is what i am trying to say... turbos suck if you have the wrong set up... same goes for a supercharger... but you set your engine up properly and both can be just as good...

[Chandler_Racing]

I spent $2000 for my vortech charger. That price also included A/F and Boost autometer gauges (not a big deal, but still). Kinda hard to say thats more than a turbo setup from a respected company (rev hard or whatever other brand).

[Freebs]

As far as i know you cant get any turbo kit for under $3000.... sure the basic kit may be less... but i am talking full kit installed and every last part to make things work... And install took me 8 hours and that was with lunch break and i cleaned out the entire engine bay, oh and that was including getting my computer reprogramed by GM so all my fuel mods were taken care of... i have yet to see a turbo kit go in that easy and that fast

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by finboy


its not that everyone that has a turbo is a sheep, its more like the benefits of a supercharger just don't stack up against a proper turbo set up. its more expensive, harder to up the boost, really caps off the amount of power you can make, and are a lot harder to find.

Freebs, finboy is right on this. Have you ever taken a look at getting your Eaton rebuild or ported? Now this www.magnumpowers.com is the king of M90/M112 supercharger work. A top of the line eaton M90 will run you $1045 ported and rebuilt, plus a core of $250. The GTP is very similar at http://www.zzperformance.com/. I cant see the M45's that the new Cobalt/Saturn/Mini use to be any cheaper. This is completely MAXING out the Supercharger. You can create more boost by switching pulleys, which is a PITA and pricey.

How do I know this all? Easy, I own a M90 that has been reworked, and its not cheap! The supercharger cost me $350 (USD), $160 for a port (CAN), $48 for a rebuilt (CAN), one off 7% overdrive pulley $75 (CAN)....and I can keep going. All of this for maybe a 50 HP gain at the wheels...:whipped: I really am starting not to like my car.

Cliff Notes: Is it cheaper to make a turbo car go fast? YES

[finboy]

Originally posted by Freebs
More expensive? for the supercharger to my door and in the car it cost me $2800.... how much do turbo kits run? benifits of a supercharger is there is 0... none. nilll. nota lag in power... your car dynoes at 230hp at the wheels you have 230hp at the wheels as soon as you put the pedal down... and as for how much power you can make... its not all that hard if you have the right set up... we are putting a Vortech supercharger on our 2002 Trans am either this year or next and at 7psi it will be around 580hp... thats just a 7psi.... dosent look like too much of a cap to me..... Turbos definatly do have their advantages (like i said before i drive a turbod car too) but superchargers also have advantages over turbos as well....

turbo kits can be put togeather for next to nothing, all depends on the application, there are guys here on beyond who built turbo kits for $1200 ;).

as for 230 as soon as you put the pedal down, correct me if i am wrong but the boost level of a supercharger increases with rpm, so you see 7 psi at a higher rpm range (or so i have read about superchargers), where as with a turbo you can be at full boost at 2500-3000 rpm, and carry that level all the way to redline.

again, you bring up "psi" as a rating, doesn't really work man, i'll say it again like this. 7 psi out of a t3 will be less air then 7 psi out of a 60-1, it all depends on the application.

for lag, really it isn't that bad, in my car i was hitting 21+ psi at 3000-3300 rpm and pulling to redline (w/o an intercooler or fuel mods it wasn't the best plan, but it still didn't blow :rofl: ) and my turbo is friggin massive considering the fact that i am running an 8v cyl head designed in the 70's and stock manifold that resembles a twisted tree branch. on cars that generally have less torque (ie honda's) lag can be suprisingly helpful when it comes to getting traction :rofl:

for a good read on turbo's vs. superchargers you should check out a page that "toma" off of this site wrote, its a good read, and he has done pretty much every set up you can imagine (big block, nitrous, small block, supercharged, TT, etc.)
http://www.members.shaw.ca/tomak/page10.html

[finboy]

Originally posted by Toms-SC


Freebs, finboy is right on this. Have you ever taken a look at getting your Eaton rebuild or ported? Now this www.magnumpowers.com is the king of M90/M112 supercharger work. A top of the line eaton M90 will run you $1045 ported and rebuilt, plus a core of $250. The GTP is very similar at http://www.zzperformance.com/. I cant see the M45's that the new Cobalt/Saturn/Mini use to be any cheaper. This is completely MAXING out the Supercharger. You can create more boost by switching pulleys, which is a PITA and pricey.

How do I know this all? Easy, I own a M90 that has been reworked, and its not cheap! The supercharger cost me $350 (USD), $160 for a port (CAN), $48 for a rebuilt (CAN), one off 7% overdrive pulley $75 (CAN)....and I can keep going. All of this for maybe a 50 HP gain at the wheels...:whipped: I really am starting not to like my car.

Cliff Notes: Is it cheaper to make a turbo car go fast? YES

exactly, i'm not trying to bash anyone here, there are some nice supercharged cars and i do still like the whine of supercharged cars, but as far as cost/potential go, there is no beating a good turbo set up for a small displacement motor.

[Freebs]

Hey i never said turbos are bad.... but again it depends on what car it is on and engine set up ect.... sure s/c's are very costly to get work done to them... but take the F-bodys for example.. i think 580hp is pretty good.. dont know why you would really need to go up from there.... The guy at Daven Port even told us that on that engine (LS1) superchargers are the way to go.... so it all depends on preferance and plat form you are working from...
My sunfire is a bad example though for superchargers.... because it is only a 2.4L i should have gone turbo (i know) or with a vortech supercharger... only way the roots supercharger on my car would have been good is if it was able to have a Intercooler plate put in like the Cobalts.. So i am forced to run an Alcohol Injection system which works just as good as an intercooler... just cost more :thumbsdow

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by finboy


as for 230 as soon as you put the pedal down, correct me if i am wrong but the boost level of a supercharger increases with rpm, so you see 7 psi at a higher rpm range (or so i have read about superchargers), where as with a turbo you can be at full boost at 2500-3000 rpm, and carry that level all the way to redline.


http://www.members.shaw.ca/tomak/page10.html

Corrected: Please see attached videos I hosted up. Car is a 93 Thunderbird SuperCoupe with 1.7 Autorotor pulleyed for 20 pounds of boost. Boost guage is the top center.


Link1 (http://www.meltedmonitor.net/secret/rpm1.MOV)
Link2 (http://www.meltedmonitor.net/secret/rpm2.MOV)

[finboy]

Originally posted by Toms-SC


Corrected: Please see attached videos I hosted up. Car is a 93 Thunderbird SuperCoupe with 1.7 Autorotor pulleyed for 20 pounds of boost. Boost guage is the top center.


Link1 (http://www.meltedmonitor.net/secret/rpm1.MOV)
Link2 (http://www.meltedmonitor.net/secret/rpm2.MOV)

i can't get the second video to work, but from the first it seems that the boost climbed quickly with the rpm, then he pegged the stock boost guage, as the car shifted the boost level was still high enough to peg the stock guage so it did not move, but i can't really tell from all the movement in the car.

[Freebs]

/\ /\
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm i love that sound... thats mainly the cause of my poor gas milage... i love to hear the whine :D

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by finboy


i can't get the second video to work.

Please try again, the second one is the best. :)

[finboy]

still appears to me that the charger is pegging out the stock guage at around 4000 rpm, but the level seems to climb evenly with the rpm up to that point, hard to tell with the stock guage as it maxes out and i can't see any #'s on it.

good steering wheel action though :burnout: :D

[Toms-SC]

Oh shit, that 'Corrected' statement should read 'You are correct'. :confused: Its 2:12 AM! GO TO BED

[Freebs]

:) i think that last video shows that s/c's can make decent amounts of torque.... oh well each to their own... i still love turbos :) love the sound of B.O.V's..... and even the spooling sound is sexy.... but you got to admit the Whine from the supercharger is very nice!

[finboy]

Originally posted by Freebs
:) i think that last video shows that s/c's can make decent amounts of torque.... oh well each to their own... i still love turbos :) love the sound of B.O.V's..... and even the spooling sound is sexy.... but you got to admit the Whine from the supercharger is very nice!

i have no problem with superchargers really, just see turbo's as my way to make lots of power, hahaha

look forward to seeing what your car can do at the track, maybe we can line up if i ever get my car back togeather again :thumbsup:

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by Freebs
:)

I just checked out your cardomain site, looks like you have an M62 or an M45. Porting can yeild you atleast another 10 HP if you have ever considered. A benefit of it besides power would be that the charge air temperature would be lower. Just saying...