Sad Canada

[Toms-SC]

That’s about the only way I can sum it up through the title. Anybody else keeping track of what’s going on here? There developments everyday but as far as I know the newest one is that if a vote of 'non confidence' passes the Liberals will just ignore it? :rolleyes: Man, we look like a bunch of pussys. Even if there was an election I’m sure the Liberals would still get in.

So I needed a place to vent, feel free to add how you feel about the situation here.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Toms-SC
Even if there was an election I’m sure the Liberals would still get in.


for once i'll have you agree with you, i can't see quebec or ontario wanting to switch governments still. :banghead:

[nhlfan]

i dont trust anyone east of regina

[mo_virgin]

Originally posted by nhlfan
i dont trust anyone east of regina

Man... i don't even trust anybody from the North East

[B20EF]

I dont like any of the parties, so i just vote for the one i hate least at the time

[eb0i]

Originally posted by nhlfan
i dont trust anyone east of regina

Alberta is the only safe haven for the PC's for now and probably will be that way for a while (even with a re-election). West of our border are the Liberals in BC and to the East of our border are the NDP (Saskatchewan, Manitoba). So really you shouldn't even trust the place you are living in :D

[Nalgene]

If the Liberals get back in I am making plans to move away from this country as soon as I can, or just throw up my hands and never vote again.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Nalgene
If the Liberals get back in I am making plans to move away from this country as soon as I can, or just throw up my hands and never vote again.

although i do agree that the sponsorship scandal does suck, i still wouldn't want to live anywhere but canada, its really not THAT bad here :dunno:

[Kirbs17]

Id have to agree, our country does look like its being governed by a complete handful of idiots. The countless references everyday to the sponsorship scandal is getting sickening. Allbeit Nixon's scandal was slightly worse, the US canned him. I think its time for Paul Martin to stop saying "he has the moral right to govern this nation"....... Since when? He doesnt have shit all. As far as Im concerned I wouldnt be the least bit surprised if he aided the scandal on from the begginings.

The PC's are not ready to be elected into the federal goverment. Steven Harper has made it his personal agenda to attack the Liberals and govern Canada. Anywhere east of Manitoba will not support that at all. With such a significant amount of people living in the east, they still beleive the liberals should be in. I usually do NOT support the way things are run in the states, but their electoral system works, and should be adopted into Canada. Elections every 4 years, not when the PM feels like it... and with a maximum of 8 years in service. IMO that would help greatly in acheiving a little solidarity for the PC's.....

There are other factions that are currently making Canada a rather disenchanting place to live ie: softwood lumber issue, mad cow/border closures....... The list just keeps growing up. Its sad to see that even though we pride ourselves as being a unique and great nation, we are so heavily intertwined with the US. Even though most nations of the world see us as Canada, they also believe that we are the biggest moochers in the free world (quoted exactly from my high school principal at my exchange school in Iwamizawa, Hokkaido, Japan)....

End Rant... God Bless Canada

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Nalgene
If the Liberals get back in I am making plans to move away from this country as soon as I can, or just throw up my hands and never vote again.

:rofl:

If I had a dime for everytime someone said that...

[BumpinTalon]

Really, if we wanted to, we could kick Martin and the Liberals out onto the street ourselves, without a non-confidence vote, but nobody cares enough to actually do it

[Weapon_R]

A vote of non-confidence and a strong Conservative campaign will probably seriously hurt the Liberals. The problem is that the Conservative ticket is far too sparsely spread. Poll indicate that the Conservatives and Liberals are neck and neck, but they forget that the Liberals are concentrated in one area whereas the Conservative support is spread out more.

As long as we have the current administration out, I wouldn't mind it if the Liberals won again. Their foreign policy is impressive, and they have worked hard to reduce the deficit.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Hmm, the Liberals' support is severely weakened over the scandal, especially in Quebec. While Quebec most likely won't vote Liberal (they'll go back to the Bloc), at least they can steal some seats away from the Liberals, possibly giving rise to a Conservative minority government.

BC could easily go over to PC as well, now that I think of it. It wouldn't take much, and this whole ordeal is definately a push in the right direction.

Hopefully, anyway.

[Weapon_R]

Personally, i'd rather see a strong Liberal presence in Canada than more Bloc. I'd really like to see all of the separatists tried for treason actually. There's no room in this FEDERATION for separatists.

The worst thing is having a minority government. With the current Liberal gov't, we have that hippy Layton forcing Canadian taxpayers to spend a hell of a lot more on things he wants done. There's no room in this country for hippies and their policies. This is preferable to a minority conservative/bloc government, however.

The problem with a Conservative minority government is that the Bloc will have an upper hand in Canadian politics. That's right, this means that Quebec will reserve more transfer payments, more power, and greater benefits. Economically, this has drained this country far enough.

If I were PM, i'd outlaw all separatists and try assholes like Lucien Bouchard and Jacques Perezeau for treason.

[BumpinTalon]

If I were PM, I'd tell Quebec to get the hell out and stop draining the country's resources.
I think a good thing to do right now would to be to change our system from first-past-the-post to proportional representation to stop all the splitting of the vote that happens with all the little bullshit parties that waste everybody's time (Green Party). The Tories might have enough in their favor to pull it off at the moment, maybe bargaining so that a non-confidence vote won't happen and this government can actually get a change to accomplish something, and in the future it will help our government actually represent the wishes of the people.

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


As long as we have the current administration out, I wouldn't mind it if the Liberals won again. Their foreign policy is impressive, and they have worked hard to reduce the deficit.

Before I was about to flame you about this statement, but the more I think about it, its true. :thumbsup:

Anybody know when the inquiry is suppose to be finished?

[Xtrema]

^ I thought end of year, probably before Christmas.

[Phy]

I wouldn't mind the Liberals if they just kicked out everyone associated with the Chretien government. (Easier said than done, of course.)

[Toma]

Bah.... SCUMBAG Liberals, or SCUMBAG conservatives

Who gives a fuck. Harper is a fuckwad. Martin is a crook.

Welcome to politics.

[BokCh0y]

Originally posted by Toma
Bah.... SCUMBAG Liberals, or SCUMBAG conservatives

Who gives a fuck. Harper is a fuckwad. Martin is a crook.

Welcome to politics.

:werd:

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Toma
Harper is a fuckwad.

Is that the best you can come up with?

[FlySi]

The fact is that most conservatives do NOT like Harper. That is the main reason for the inability for the conservatives to make any real gains.

[AsianCaucasian]

Originally posted by FlySi
The fact is that most conservatives do NOT like Harper. That is the main reason for the inability for the conservatives to make any real gains.

I think Stockwell Day would've made a better choice for leader. He would've done well had his party not turned against him :p

[finboy]

i'm just going to throw in a write in vote for myslef, its a long shot but it could happen :D

[legendboy]

Originally posted by nhlfan
i dont trust anyone east of regina


Originally posted by mo_virgin


Man... i don't even trust anybody from the North East


:rofl:

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by legendboy





:rofl:
:werd: Holly shit that was funny :rofl:

[hjr]

you really need to pay attention to where 3 of the last 4 of our prime ministers camefrom (quebec). (even martin)

[Singel]

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
Really, if we wanted to, we could kick Martin and the Liberals out onto the street ourselves, without a non-confidence vote, but nobody cares enough to actually do it

VIVE LA REVOLUTION!:D

Fucke em all, bring in prop. rep....or better yet representation by per capita contribution to the GDP or something, then Alberta would hold a fair amount of power:D Hopefully Klein wouldn't become PM though, I wouldn't leave Canada but I might have to go live off the grid in Nunavut. Green gets my vote this time if they inform me of their candidates name before reading it on the ballot like I did last time, and changed my mind to support the Mandela hating nazi in my constituency:nut:

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by Nalgene
If the Liberals get back in I am making plans to move away from this country as soon as I can, or just throw up my hands and never vote again.

Not voting is a vote for the status quo, or whatever the status quo might become.

If you're not going to vote, then quite your bitching!!!

[sputnik]

There is going to be a confidence vote today in parliament.

It looks like the Liberals will lose and the vote will be for the current government to resign and call an election. However the Liberals have stated that the vote "doesnt count" and that they will continue to hold power even if the majority of government says that an election should be called.

What a desperate measure just to keep power. If the Liberals attempt to do something that ridiculous there will be chaos in parliament until the next election.

But then again. What else is new? The Liberals have already been spending a billion dollars per day ($20B total) trying to buy support.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Tyler883
If you're not going to vote, then quite your bitching!!!

:werd:

[TheBenzo]

Wow, mutiny. Someone needs to roll up in their cribs with the chrome piece.

How motherfucking absurd is that? THEY WILL IGNORE A NON-CONFIDENCE VOTE?

Is that not against the principle of Democracy?

[Nissanaddict]

Just like they ignored the senators we voted for, and when Klein called for a referendum on same sex marriage in Alberta (referendum basically being technically the MOST POWERFUL WORD, but Martin said no to that too, somehow he's above it) To fix our government and country:

Step 1: DITCH THE MONARCHY!!! If it weren't for the monarchy, these loopholes would be gone. That wouldn't be allowed.

Step 2: Equalization payments....ditch them, or at least decrease them. Guess what? Quebec receives more than anyone else, and Alberta pays more than half of them (the other half being payed by BC and Ontario) If anyone should collect, it's Manitoba and Sask. we need FARMERS more than anything else

Step 3: Get someone who isn't a pussy in the seat of the conservative government and let him run this shit (long as he ain't an asshole, so we don't have another Nazi Germany). If Canada wants to not be a joke, the leader can't be a joke.

Step 4: If Quebec doesn't stop whining, let em separate...but fully. None of this "keep our currency" shit they wanted.

Step 5: Don't work? Well too bad, you can't vote. that should apply EVERYWHERE. Without work, the world wouldn't function, so why do people who don't contribute, get a say in this? They'll simply vote for whoever offers the best welfare to lazy fuckers.

The rest should take care of itself.

[Weapon_R]

The Liberals have a point - a vote of non-confidence must be associated with a money bill.

The Conservatives are fucking morons. Harper knows he won't win the next election so he's dicking around with BS legislation. He can easily introduce a REAL non-confidence bill but he knows he's disliked and not trusted by a lot of Canadians.

[rinny]

Canadian gov't is a weaksauce drama show.

[k_dawg]

Originally posted by sputnik

But then again. What else is new? The Liberals have already been spending a billion dollars per day ($20B total) trying to buy support.

Agreed, librals are spending billions of dollars to try to stay in the government. This is what Canada has turned into. Sigh :thumbsdow

[Weapon_R]

Well the vote took place:

153 Conservatives

150 Liberals

The liberals chose to ignore this one. But I think this will give the Conservatives a little more muscle to flex. Get ready for a summer election :D

[Toms-SC]

URG! Just got up this morning to find this out, whata piss off.

[TheBenzo]

Hey, I'm all for the separation of Quebec; It would eliminate liberal seats in the HOC.

[TheBenzo]

Oh, and welcome to the Armageddon that will be Ottawa for the next while.

[Mad$ella]

:banghead: <- Liberals

[abyss]

I agree with the earlier statement about just getting rid of the current Liberal admin. The Liberals have by far the covered the goals of most Canadian people as they have run for this long despite the scandals. I will vote Liberal until the other parties change their views on immigration. Without a Liberal government in power, I never would've met my fiancee. For those of you on Beyond that know Hampstor, guess what, you never would've met him either with any other party ruling this country. That's a strong enough sway for me.

[AsianCaucasian]

Originally posted by abyss
I agree with the earlier statement about just getting rid of the current Liberal admin. The Liberals have by far the covered the goals of most Canadian people as they have run for this long despite the scandals. I will vote Liberal until the other parties change their views on immigration. Without a Liberal government in power, I never would've met my fiancee. For those of you on Beyond that know Hampstor, guess what, you never would've met him either with any other party ruling this country. That's a strong enough sway for me.

I don't see what's wrong with the conservative's immigration policy. I immigrated to Canada during Mulroney's government and my family had no complaints.

[AsianCaucasian]

I don't see what's wrong with the conservative's immigration policy. I immigrated to Canada during Mulroney's government and my family had no complaints. In fact, I see holes in the liberal government's policy on immigration. Remember the strippers? Look at the terrorists coming in from all around the world. Canada shouldn't have an open door to these kind of people.

EDIT: Oops, this was supposed to be an edit... sorry for double post.

[fast95pony]

Let's boot out Quebec.No more cheese eating surrender monkeys..

No more Quebec lawyer PM's..

[abyss]

haha, I just went on the Conservative party website and they have this huge banner on how they've made changes to their immigration policy. As far as terrorists are concerned, they'll get in anyways their access to money and supplies is almost unlimited, so they'll be able to forge documents much easier than refugees will be able to receive them. That's what is sad.

*edit* although, starting next year you will need a passport to enter the US from Canada. I think it's about time they started doing that, hopefully it helps.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by abyss
I will vote Liberal until the other parties change their views on immigration. Without a Liberal government in power, I never would've met my fiancee. For those of you on Beyond that know Hampstor, guess what, you never would've met him either with any other party ruling this country. That's a strong enough sway for me.

So you support a party with no ethics, who admit to stealing taxpayer money will bend you over and rape your ass without blinking an eye just as long as they continue to let the boats ashore? Your statement in itself is a reason to be more stringent towards immigrants.:whipped:

[sputnik]

Originally posted by abyss
I will vote Liberal until the other parties change their views on immigration. Without a Liberal government in power, I never would've met my fiancee. For those of you on Beyond that know Hampstor, guess what, you never would've met him either with any other party ruling this country. That's a strong enough sway for me.

So what is it that Liberals do differently that let your fiancee come to Canada? The Conservative party isnt against immigration as long as it actually boosts the economy instead of putting a strain on our social services.

Is that such a bad thing?

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by abyss
I will vote Liberal until the other parties change their views on immigration. Without a Liberal government in power, I never would've met my fiancee. For those of you on Beyond that know Hampstor, guess what, you never would've met him either with any other party ruling this country. That's a strong enough sway for me.


Your grasp on immigration policy concerning political parties is convoluted at best...

Without the liberals, "hampstor" wouldn't be here? :rofl: He'd be here regardless of the political party in power, just so you know. And if you don't believe it at face value, I can probably dig up some information on how immigration increased or stayed the same during the Mulroney government reign.

[abyss]

wow quite the response. I checked the Conservative website to see the difference in their policy. I thought they were a lot more strict than they are (and they have changed, their update was issued March 15th of this year), and I do believe in immigration as long as it's economically helpful, however I do realize I came across as jaded and uneducated. Sorry for that. I support the Liberals views on immigration, I DO NOT support their abuse of taxpayer money, which is why I ALSO stated that the current admin should be removed, Not everyone in the party is bad (even though it may seem that way due to the media).

[abyss]

The Conservative Party will address the outstanding backlog of deportation orders, It will ensure that refugee claimants who arrive in Canada without proper documentation do not put Canadian security at risk. While I agree that this will cut down on the amount of terrorists we harbour, it will also deport families like Hampstor's that are fleeing communist regimes. Unfortunately, the last two federal elections have come down to a crap shoot between the lesser evil. What's to say that the conservatives won't do the same, their platform seems a little too good to be true, I don't see one instance of where they're going to get these huge surpluses to support their enormus proposed spending. For me it comes down to which party shares my ideals, the Conservatives for the majority do not, although the "new" revised platform does seem to magically promise to repair everything the Liberals were lacking on. Secret agenda.....I think so.....

[TheBenzo]

Originally posted by abyss
I agree with the earlier statement about just getting rid of the current Liberal admin. The Liberals have by far the covered the goals of most Canadian people as they have run for this long despite the scandals. I will vote Liberal until the other parties change their views on immigration. Without a Liberal government in power, I never would've met my fiancee. For those of you on Beyond that know Hampstor, guess what, you never would've met him either with any other party ruling this country. That's a strong enough sway for me. LOL that's funny. Thats almost like tying your penis to a tree and running in the opposite direction, reason being you had a mild genital itch.

What do you want out of immigration? If you look, we have had record numbers in the last 5 years. Are you looking to exceed those? I mean, if you are after world domination, write up a plan... for gods sake (or whoevers sake) dont vote liberal.

[Tyler883]

Originally posted by Nissanaddict

Step 5: Don't work? Well too bad, you can't vote. that should apply EVERYWHERE. Without work, the world wouldn't function, so why do people who don't contribute, get a say in this? They'll simply vote for whoever offers the best welfare to lazy fuckers.
[/B]

You need to google some information regarding the universal right to vote. You have probably always had that right, but talk to women who remember when they couldn't vote. The right to vote is not something that you hap hazardly take away from someone just because they violate your work ethics.

Hmmmmm ...hard work vs human rights? Both are important.

Which one is more important, wanna venture a guess?

[abyss]

Originally posted by TheBenzo
LOL that's funny. Thats almost like tying your penis to a tree and running in the opposite direction, reason being you had a mild genital itch.

What do you want out of immigration? If you look, we have had record numbers in the last 5 years. Are you looking to exceed those? I mean, if you are after world domination, write up a plan... for gods sake (or whoevers sake) dont vote liberal.

I'm not looking to increase immigration, I just don't want the government to prevent deserving families that are in danger access to Canada due to the fact they didn't cross the t's and dot the i's. Your post doesn't really make sense as you're saying immigration has been good the past five years, I agree (under a Liberal government it has been good) With the US now only letting Passport outfitted citizens into the US it should cut down huge on terrorist harbouring, which is also good. While I'm obviously upset that the LIberals abused their power, I just can't see voting for something that is strangely too good to be true (the Conservatives) and it seems such a far cry from the ideals that party has held for years. It's like suddenly they're going to change everything they believe in to be voted in. IMO that's pretty shady looking, but vote for who you want, that's one of the joys of Canada, if you think the Conservatives will be what Canadians want and need then by all means support them.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by abyss
For me it comes down to which party shares my ideals

Well if you share your ideals with the Liberals your ideals must include lying, stealing, and slandering your neighbours. Please don't tell me its better to take up with the Devil you know rather than the Devil you don't know. WE SHOULDN'T HAVE DEVILS RUNNING OUR COUNTRY and until we give a different party a chance to run the country were stuck with dealing with the devil.:thumbsdow

[abyss]

Originally posted by heavyD


Well if you share your ideals with the Liberals your ideals must include lying, stealing, and slandering your neighbours. Please don't tell me its better to take up with the Devil you know rather than the Devil you don't know. WE SHOULDN'T HAVE DEVILS RUNNING OUR COUNTRY and until we give a different party a chance to run the country were stuck with dealing with the devil.:thumbsdow

That's what is sad about it, that it comes down to the devil you know versus the devil you don't. It has been that way for the last two federal elections, and I don't agree with the current Liberal admin, they need a huge check and balance, so it is going to be a hard choice for me. I just don't want to make a mistake and vote for a party who appears to be all grass is greener and then find out they're even worse. Past Conservative governments were not all hands clean and shiny either.

[AsianCaucasian]

Originally posted by abyss


That's what is sad about it, that it comes down to the devil you know versus the devil you don't. It has been that way for the last two federal elections, and I don't agree with the current Liberal admin, they need a huge check and balance, so it is going to be a hard choice for me. I just don't want to make a mistake and vote for a party who appears to be all grass is greener and then find out they're even worse. Past Conservative governments were not all hands clean and shiny either.

So you would rather have thieves, crooks and liars run the country instead of letting someone else have a chance? This conservative party is much different from the one that ran before. The right is now united and can stand as a good alternative to the liberal government.

[abyss]

Originally posted by AsianCaucasian


So you would rather have thieves, crooks and liars run the country instead of letting someone else have a chance? This conservative party is much different from the one that ran before. The right is now united and can stand as a good alternative to the liberal government.

If there were a better administration group running the Liberals it would be an easy choice. However, due to the fact that I have always had an intense dislike for Mr. Martin it will be a difficult one. As extreme as an example as it may be, remember that the Nazi's were voted into power by the majority of Germans believing their promises of money and work to better Germany. Now I am aware that those sort of atrocities will not be possible anymore, it's scary for me to read Conservative releases and see that they have no real clear consise agenda other than to pour money into the areas Martin pulled it from. They offer no explanation as to where this money is coming from other than strict budgetary controls.....where else are they pulling money from to support this immense "shopping spree"

[AsianCaucasian]

Originally posted by abyss


If there were a better administration group running the Liberals it would be an easy choice. However, due to the fact that I have always had an intense dislike for Mr. Martin it will be a difficult one. As extreme as an example as it may be, remember that the Nazi's were voted into power by the majority of Germans believing their promises of money and work to better Germany. Now I am aware that those sort of atrocities will not be possible anymore, it's scary for me to read Conservative releases and see that they have no real clear consise agenda other than to pour money into the areas Martin pulled it from. They offer no explanation as to where this money is coming from other than strict budgetary controls.....where else are they pulling money from to support this immense &quot;shopping spree&quot;

Actually, Hitler was not exactly "voted" into power democratically. He had the parlimentary building destroyed and he blamed the socialist party for it and his fear mongering is what really brought him into power.
Where are they going to get the money? Maybe by scrapping all the bullshit programs that were started and are still being funded by the liberal government. Gun registry? Adscam money? All the cashflow into Quebec? How about the budget surplus? If he can pour money into where Martin pulled, he can surely pull money out of what Martin poured. Canada does not have a lack of funds to spend.

[Z_Fan]

^^

Actually Hitler *WAS* voted into power despite the extenuating circumstances. And it was a democratic election in that an actual vote did take place and Hitler was extremely popular at the time. Hitler's NAZI party had the largest number of seats in the Reichstag PRIOR to the fire, and normally he would have automatically become Chancellor...but the other parties didn't want to work with him.

AND...

Hitler didn't blame the socialist party for the Reichstag fire! Christ boy! Hitler was the *LEADER* of the socialist party!!!!!!!!!!! Hitler banned and hated communists!

National Socialist German Workers Party - AKA NAZIS!

As far as the fire goes...

Dutch communist, van der Lubbe was found inside the Reichstag and was charged with starting the fire. That's what led to the thousands of arrests of communist party members/leaders in the following days...

[AsianCaucasian]

Originally posted by Z_Fan
^^

Actually Hitler *WAS* voted into power despite the extenuating circumstances. And it was a democratic election in that an actual vote did take place and Hitler was extremely popular at the time. Hitler's NAZI party had the largest number of seats in the Reichstag PRIOR to the fire, and normally he would have automatically become Chancellor...but the other parties didn't want to work with him.

AND...

Hitler didn't blame the socialist party for the Reichstag fire! Christ boy! Hitler was the *LEADER* of the socialist party!!!!!!!!!!! Hitler banned and hated communists!

National Socialist German Workers Party - AKA NAZIS!

As far as the fire goes...

Dutch communist, van der Lubbe was found inside the Reichstag and was charged with starting the fire. That's what led to the thousands of arrests of communist party members/leaders in the following days...

lol sorry. Got my shit wrong. I meant communists.

[Z_Fan]

^^

LOL

To be on topic, the problem with our government is very simple. It is supposed to be "responsible" (LOL yeah right).

A vote of non-confidence happens. The leading party loses and is forced to call an election. The stupid tards in the East put back into power the same Liberal government, with the same leader - and that is the problem.

Not that a Liberal government gets re-elected.

That's fine if it is the wish of the electorate.

The problem is that the leader of the party who suffers a vote of non-confidence should *NEVER* be able to lead the country again. Ever. Simple as that. The other thing Canada desperately needs is a limit to the number of terms, and the terms should be fixed. (4-5 year, whatever) BUT, a vote of non-confidence should still be possible even under that scenario. Keeping the same leaders in power ... until they die or resign ... is just silly IMO.

We go through all this BS just to have the system put back into power the same MF'er we want to kick out? Crazy!


Picking a political leader is just like shopping for a dildo. You just pick one knowing the only thing it can do is fuck ya!

[Toma]

If they get rid of harper, ONLY then can I ever see the conservatives in power.

Aside from that condescending prick, it really makes no difference who is in power.

I agree Martin is a crooked fuck, and I have always said that, but he is BY FAR the lesser of two evils.

The NDP I do like, but Layton is too spineless...not a leader IMHO.

Funny, I DID like Manning for some reason. Not even sure why.

Give me Trudeau ANY day over these clowns. The guy had balls, charisma, spunk and backbone.

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by Toma

The guy had balls, charisma, spunk and backbone.

Sounds a lot like a certian other global leader everybody knows and hates. :)

[Toma]

Originally posted by Toms-SC


Sounds a lot like a certian other global leader everybody knows and hates. :)
Putin? Now that guy ROCKS!

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Toms-SC


Sounds a lot like a certian other global leader everybody knows and hates. :)

Not everybody man...you still like him.

[mo_virgin]

Harper looks like chancelor palpatine for star wars...

[Phy]

^ He does not look like the new pope. Benedict looks way more like the Emperor than Harper.

Y'know, maybe we should just let 'em have an election, only we do it like they do in Australia - once they win, we toss the new PM in jail and everyone else gets to sort it out.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Toma

Putin? Now that guy ROCKS!

I hope you are being sarcastic.

Putin is singlehandedly bringing Russia back to communist rule. Have you noticed that every major Russian media outlet (including EVERY TV channel) is owned and run by the Russian government?

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Toma
Give me Trudeau ANY day over these clowns. The guy had balls, charisma, spunk and backbone.

I hope you're not serious.:(

[sputnik]

Whatever it takes to win

Robert Fulford
National Post
Saturday, April 30, 2005

Stephen Harper has been accused of pushing with unseemly haste toward a quick election, though perhaps the most recent polling will dampen his enthusiasm. In any case, we can understand why he's talked so much about striking now rather than waiting for next winter. He knows federal Liberals are dangerous opponents, especially when they look like underdogs.

History suggests that the miracle Paul Martin is praying for may well come to pass and the Liberals, if they get a few months to regroup, will once more present themselves as the party that must run Canada.

There are reasons, after all, why they have governed for 56 of the last 70 years. Liberals tend to be exceptionally shrewd. They attract regiments of careerists who make the party their financial as well as their political home -- lobbyists, senators, advertising people, would-be judges, lawyers dependent on government assignments, and other apparatchiks. They are committed to the party because it's their way of life.

Having for so long savoured the joys of governing, they will not cheerfully relinquish them. Well-placed Liberals know what it is to phone some pathetic hack and tell him that he has become a senator and therefore will never know want again, no matter what -- an act of patronage unique in the democratic world. The Liberals understand what it means to deliver jobs to old friends, become heroes by bringing government subsidies to their home towns, get their pictures in the local paper when generously giving away the public's money.

And all the while they have developed abundant self-righteousness. They believe they are the only people who can hold the country together and govern efficiently, a permanent self-assessment that no Liberal mistakes or scandals can ever budge. They have also demonstrated, frequently, that they can persuade many voters to agree with them.

Often, Tory leaders who oppose them have little public appeal. That's not just Liberal luck. The Liberals have won so many elections that fighting them has become less than alluring. Hardly anyone wants a career on the Opposition benches.

The Liberals move left when it's necessary, then shift right when it's expedient. As the occasion demands, they are the party of Bay Street or the party of the workers. They are free traders who can turn viciously against free trade if it becomes Tory policy. Last week's deal with the NDP followed the script written by Pierre Trudeau in 1972 when he persuaded David Lewis's NDP to prop him up. (Layton may want to recall that Lewis also won concessions from the Liberals but two years later lost even his own seat -- to a Liberal, of course.)

Liberals do these things with the utmost sincerity. By now Martin has probably persuaded himself that the Layton budget was the one he always intended to enact. A clever Liberal leader can turn on a dime, as Trudeau did in 1974 when he ridiculed the Tory wage-and-price-controls plan, then adopted it soon after he was re-elected.

To stay in government, Liberals will attempt the most outrageous stunts. That admirable journalist Christina McCall, whose death this week saddened her many admirers across the country, wrote in her book Grits: An Intimate Portrait of the Liberal Party (1982), that Trudeau held power by doing things that to many people "seemed basely cynical."

In 1977 he recruited Jack Horner, a right-wing Tory MP. Horner was the most ferocious critic of the Official Languages Act, the core of Trudeau's federalism. Yet the Liberals were so desperate for Alberta MPs that they stole Horner from the Tories with the promise of a Cabinet job. When they acquired him, it occurred to me that a government capable of that would do anything. Crime, in this case, did not pay, however. The deal didn't help Trudeau and harmed Horner. As a Liberal he lost the 1979 election and his place in the House.

Most of this month's polls have documented the Liberals' unpopularity. Their leader has humiliated himself by begging for patience from the voters. It seems likely that many party members now believe they chose the wrong man to lead them. But they can find some comfort in their record. They have been in serious trouble before and have found the way out. At this moment scores of them are trying to imagine just how it will be accomplished this time. An early election may well anger the voters, but it may be even more dangerous to give the Liberals another nine or 10 months of scheming time.

© National Post 2005

[AsianCaucasian]

Originally posted by Toma


Give me Trudeau ANY day over these clowns. The guy had balls, charisma, spunk and backbone.

He also started the NEP and started the giant snowballing of our debt. :thumbsdow

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by sputnik


I hope you are being sarcastic.

Putin is singlehandedly bringing Russia back to communist rule. Have you noticed that every major Russian media outlet (including EVERY TV channel) is owned and run by the Russian government?

The Russian people NEED a strongman to govern the nation. Look back to their very lengthy history and see that there has never been a successful moderate leader.

While the transition to a more liberal democratic nation is evident in Russia, things cannot be done overnight. Putin has a very tough job right now and the only way that any successful transition can take place is through the gradual easing of democratic institutions over the traditional socialist way.

Keep in mind that the Russian people believe that it is their inherent right to a job, education, and health care. In communist Russia, unemployment was extremely low because of this. It was only 15 years ago that the Soviet Union collapsed, and people have not forgotten the way that things used to be.

I think he's been especially successful in juggling the demands of the Russian people, dealing with corruption and crime domestically, while demonstrating a genuine commitment to moving towards a liberal democratic nation. The Russia of today is a much friendlier ally of the West than the Russia of 20 years ago.

[AsianCaucasian]

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C. S. Lewis

[Toma]

Originally posted by sputnik


I hope you are being sarcastic.

Putin is singlehandedly bringing Russia back to communist rule. Have you noticed that every major Russian media outlet (including EVERY TV channel) is owned and run by the Russian government?

Russia needs a STRONG and Sober leader with integrity.

The past leaders, corrupt, paid off drunks really did a number on Russia....

I love that guy. The strong silent and intelligent type.

[Primer_Drift]

Canadian federal governments are like an 90yr old trying to open a bottle of viagra - no matter what outcome is, it'll still end up impotent and flaccid.

It is a tough decision whether to vote for a corrupt government capable of leading, or a weak government incapable of governing effectively.

[canadian_hustla]

It is a tough decision whether to vote for a corrupt government capable of leading, or a weak government incapable of governing effectively.

^

Well said, although I fully support the Canadian Alliance, the problem is that NO party can appeal to each individual Canadian without alienation. Canada will always be horizontally divided (west=conservative, east=liberal)

[el_fefes]

Man Politics in Canada are :bullshit: There's no single party that will fix everything for us. The conservatives won't do shit for sure...not with Mr. Harper...the Liberals are crooks...and the rest of the parties are too small to do shit.

BTW Putin is the leader Russia needs right now...Russians are used to that type of government. Although I don't agree with his taking over of the Russian oil giant Yukos.

[Toms-SC]

Well, they won the confidence vote, who woulda guessed. This is all for nothing, any opposition parties should just dissolve, theres no point any more. The Liberals should just rename themselves to 'Canada'.

[Nissanaddict]

You need to google some information regarding the universal right to vote. You have probably always had that right, but talk to women who remember when they couldn't vote. The right to vote is not something that you hap hazardly take away from someone just because they violate your work ethics.

Hmmmmm ...hard work vs human rights? Both are important.

Which one is more important, wanna venture a guess?


Hey, I'm not stopping these people from living in our society, but they have to follow our rules just like everyone else. It's ridiculous how when I owe 62 cents for tax, which is for SURE less than the price it cost to send me the letter, pay for postage, pay someone to pack it, and send it....yet, if I don't send this money they will prosecute me. Look I'm all for human rights, but our society is based on the fact that everyone does THEIR part. If you concentrate on paying these people for nothing, rather than putting them to work (like they do in some european countries like Austria....everyone on welfare is a city worker) then eventually, more people will catch on to this easier life, and society will ultimately cease to be, and we'll have anarchy. If however, you put all these people to work (as my theory in another thread about how welfare should require you to look for a job, and bring proof, and if the job earnings are too little, they should pay the DIFFERENCE, instead of everything) you'd have way less financial problems to deal with within government, less unemployed people/people on the streets....ultimately, if you hate this society, move into the bush, kill your own food. If you don't wanna do that, then live within our rules. Then you have the government, which is also allowed do do anything they want....and the middle class...ie. most of us (I hope) that can't get away with 62 cents (which would actually SAVE the government money had they ignored it)

[canadian_hustla]

Well, they won the confidence vote, who woulda guessed. This is all for nothing, any opposition parties should just dissolve, theres no point any more. The Liberals should just rename themselves to 'Canada'.

^

:werd: , were fucked for another couple years now. It will be interesting to see how much debt the country will have when this illegitimate government finally falls.