1986 Porsche 944 Turbo (951) Body Kit

[Ziess]

Hello all,

I am new here, and thought this to be a good first question. I, within the next 2 or so months, will have my first Porsche! it is to be a Black on Black 1986 Turbo 944 (951). I am very excited, and ready to start learning all of the quirks and what not of actually owning a Porsche. My question is, however, about weight. i am not terrible worried about cost, but more so performance. I am more then aware that the Porsche is an amazing car stock and have felt its power first hand. I do however would like to begin racing my Porsche so handling is becoming my top priority. I have been looking around in many different places for different body kit options to reduce weight. However I have found that many of them do not look very nice and will make my very sexy Porsche.. Look like a very not sexy ricer. If anyone could give me a heads up to a place where there is a variety of different body kits.. or point me in the direction of a good one I would love to hear from you. Thanks so much, and am glad that I can be apart of your family here at beyond.ca :tongue: .

-Tim

[Euro_Trash]

Screw body kits.. it would look best slammed. If handling is your first priority, work with your suspension, not the body.

[Ziess]

Yea.. I have been told so many things from so many people.. From work on boost, work on body, work on suspension, work on this work on that.. Not exactly made of money.. But I would like to make this car a nice one, and really get into racing it.

So you think work on suspension first? Rather then the body kit?

-Tim

[EK 2.0]

wait for rage2, Alpine Autoworks, and/or Redlynemr2 to post and see this thread...they IMHO are the guys to talk to about those cars...

and I am sure when they see this they will give you a hand...oh and also 962kid...

[Ziess]

Thanks a lot EK 2.0, I will do just that, haha.

:zzz: *goes to sleep in anticipation, dreaming of his Porsche*:zzz:

-Tim

[iceburns288]

Suspension and lightweight should go hand in hand for an excellently handling car. While you're getting rid of weight, make sure to put in a much lower and stiffer suspension. Also remember that as the car gets lighter, it will reduce load on the suspension and raise the car gradually, affecting looks and performance. So finish lightening the weight before you replace the suspension, especially if you manage to take off a huge amount (several hundred pounds, maybe by getting some fiberglass panels and a spartan interior)

[Ziess]

Wow.. good point, didn't even think about how the car will look farther off the ground..

*shows how little i know*

Was thinking of taking out the back seats as well.. just putting all the framing back there for the 5 point harness(es).

iceburns288, so u think that I should lighten and so suspension? But lighten first, and then replace/modify the suspension accordingly?

Also.. when talking about doing so many modification to weight I begin to worry about making the car unbalanced… any thoughts?

-Tim

[Redlyne_mr2]

Hey Ziess,
If you really want to go all out you can buy fiberglass panels for your car at www.gtracing.com.
The problems with fiberglass panels though (ie hood, fenders, bumper) is that the car will not be as solid and the panels will be prone to cracking and warpage. The factory front bumper is urethane anyways so its not heavy. To loose weight on the 944 id start with removing the rear spare tire , tool kit and jack. Then remove the rear seats. You can also then look at replacing the heavy factory seats with some nice light racing buckets. Replace the battery with a smaller lighter one. After that it comes down to more serious steps like removing the carpeting and sound deadening material as well as replacing the pop up headlights with some sealed units. Another popular option to loose weight in the 944 community is to remove the A/C as well.
If you want to improve the look of your 944 get yourself some 968 side mirros and door handles. It makes the car look 5 years newer. good luck

[Ziess]

Thanks a lot Redlyne_mr2, i was planning on taking out the back seats and putting in the racing buckets with proper 5 harnesses, but I worry about weight distribution when it comes to that. i have now made significantly more weight in the front of the car then in the back. i am looking for nicer, wider tires for the back anyway.. but i don’t want to be loosing too much traction because I don’t have enough weight back there. Any thoughts?

-Tim

[rage2]

Since I've done pretty much everything to my 951, here's what to expect. There's 3 areas to concentrate on. Let's cover each one to see how much you wanna spend ;).

Weight
The first bit of weight is cheap to remove, you can get down to around 2700lbs by stripping the interior, installing lighter seats, removing all sound deadening, etc. That's about your limit for "cheap". Replacing everything possible with carbon fiber (hood, fenders, etc) and lightweight wheels would get you down to 2400-2500lbs or so. That's about the limit that I've seen.

Suspension
The shitty thing about the 951 suspension is well, you can't have comfort and performance at the same time because of the front suspension design If you want excellent cornering, especially on R-compound tires or slicks, you'll need very heavy springs up front. 500lb springs are about the limit for street driving on stock weight, but for ultimate grip at the track, you'll want 600lb or stronger springs depending on vehicle weight. Driving anything over 500lb on the street will hurt ya. Choose what you want to do, street or track. Then decide on suspension there.

Power
There's many ways you can go for power. First things first, upgrade the head studs, you won't be able to run much more than 280hp (250whp) without eating head gaskets. The stock block is very strong, so making HP isn't a problem with it.

Chips/MAF/Turbo/Injectors - A good setup will be able to net you a good powerband and about 400hp (360whp) on pump gas. www.vitesseracing.com has excellent kits for our cars. Unlimited power potential with race gas, I've made 520hp (460whp) on the stock 2.5L block using race gas.

Cams - This will bring your pump gas potentials on the 2.5L motor to 450hp (400whp). Cheap, but I suggest doing at the same time as the above combo, as turbo choice is critical for matching your cams.

2.8L - 2 ways of doing this. Big bore or stroker. Big bore is more expensive, but gives a better torque curve. Stroke involves replacing crank with one from 968/944S2, new rods. Big bore involves new pistons, sleeved block. I went the big bore route on my car. With the right turbo, 450hp (400whp) on pump gas. Another 50hp more with the right cams.

3.0L - Big $$$, basically bored and stroked. Guys with these motors are running 500-600hp on pump gas. Bring lots of cash.

V8 - Chevy V8 transplant, very cheap (compared to above), lots of power. If I were to do it again, this is the route I would take.

[BumpinTalon]

Originally posted by rage2

V8 - Chevy V8 transplant, very cheap (compared to above), lots of power. If I were to do it again, this is the route I would take.

would that not demolish the balance of the car though?

[Ziess]

Yea.. i have herd of that Chevy conversion.. I think i will keep my car German, or custom built thank you very much, hahahah. and I am fairly certain it would kill the weight distribution.. but i could be wrong, lol.

I will be going with the smaller 2.5L engine, and i don’t plan to bore it out at all.

thank you very much for your input rage2, i was hoping you would be around to share your experience. I really think i will be pushing for performance first.. and then worry about power. I am more of a driver then a mechanic.. but i am getting there, lol.


Originally posted by rage2
Driving anything over 500lb on the street will hurt ya.


you mean me.. not the car right? lol...

it will not be much of a daily driver.. only in commission for 4 or so months out of the year.. and although street legal, i would like it to do most of its driving on the track, lol.

i will be sure to look into that web site that you mentioned.. and follow up with any questions i have for you all, lol.

-Tim

[rage2]

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
would that not demolish the balance of the car though?
You think that 4 banger in the 944 is light? The thing is bigger than some v8's!

IMO, as a driver, weight distribution doesn't mean THAT much. I've driven front heavy cars, 50/50 cars, rear heavy cars, as long as the suspension and brakes are tuned for that weight bias, it's not a problem.

Originally posted by Ziess
Yea.. i have herd of that Chevy conversion.. I think i will keep my car German, or custom built thank you very much, hahahah.
Then don't mod the car ;). It's funny how people argue about where the parts come from. I have a canadian EFI system, american turbo, japanese injectors, english blow off valve, american pistons, and english sleeves, it's still OK. But, if I decide to change to an american V8 block, suddenly the car isn't "german" no more. Go figure.

I guess you'll have to learn the hard way like I did. What a waste of money lol.

Originally posted by Ziess
you mean me.. not the car right? lol...
I mean the front springs.

[Ziess]

hehe... yea i hear ya.. idk.. i guess i kinda think that changing the engine makes it not a porsche anymore.. but ur right.. all that really maters is craossin the line first, lol.

thanks alot everyone for your good pointers though. i will be sure to let you all know how it goes!.

-Tim

[AllGoNoShow]

If your worried about crossing the line first, build drag not track.

If you want good lap times, build track not drag

If you want silly fast and silly cornering abilities, then bring money, lots of it.

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by AllGoNoShow
If your worried about crossing the line first, build drag not track.

If you want good lap times, build track not drag

If you want silly fast and silly cornering abilities, then bring money, lots of it.


I dunno...rage2 built a pretty bad-ass 951...drags in the 12's, tracks and doriftos...

[benyl]

Originally posted by EK 2.0



I dunno...rage2 built a pretty bad-ass 951...drags in the 12's, tracks and doriftos...

He has spent a pretty penny getting it there.

[AllGoNoShow]

Originally posted by EK 2.0



I dunno...rage2 built a pretty bad-ass 951...drags in the 12's, tracks and doriftos...


You missed the money part didn't you.

Even he said it himself.

[EK 2.0]

very true my good friend...very true...I mis-read the post...my apologies

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by benyl


He has spent a pretty penny getting it there.
Many many pretty pennies not to mention he practically has his own personal mechanic who often spends more time driving it than he does.

[Ziess]

hmmph.. I do hate spending money.. and even with two jobs there never seems to be enough of it. I do want to go with track rather then drag though.. the 951 isn't really a drag car.. or isn't at least in my mind. i would be going more for track tacing.

I figure that i will buy the car.. Dump 5g's into it or so (nothing insane, specially not for a Porsche) win some races.. Make some money.. And then put it back into the car, hehe.

u know.. everyone’s dream... haha

-Tim

[soloracer]

Do you do the work yourself? If not be prepared to drop 5g's into it just to get it back to perfect "stock" condition and in stock form the car is nice but you aren't going to win many races nor will you make some money. Did you know that a clutch job will cost $3500 alone? Did you know that the front ball joints are not serviceable and if they need replaced you replace the entire lower control arm at a cost of $2200 per each! The aftermarket tubular arms are cheaper but still in the $2000 a pair range. I'm afraid that this car is beyond your budget from the sounds of it. If you want something cheap that is going to be fast and easy to modify get a 5.0 mustang. Heck, Toma proved that getting a little Omni Turbo would be a good choice for a cheap, fast car. Throw $5K into one of those and you will be winning races with some much high dollar cars. Forget the 944 Turbo unless you have the deep pockets to go with it. I don't have as much in mine as Rage does but what I do have into it isn't to be laughed at (Over $30K not including the initial purchase price).

[luderollup]

yeah i agree with what these guys are saying... if u hate spending money do not go with a european car, i drive an audi and ive dropped over 5 grand on suspension, lighting, and brakes alone...if you want something thats light and cheap to modify go with a japanese car, most likely a honda or acura.... sourcing products for euro cars is a bitch also, and the only real shop for it here in calgary is Tunerworks... so if your going to go with 944 get your suspension, and your rims and be amazed that your 5 grand is gone