best turbo upgrade for talon/eclipse

[mr.loco]

im a noob to these cars but all i know that they are the best bang for your buck regarding hp an looks. whoever knows about these cars i hopr u can help me out its a 97 tsi with cam gears and full exhaust not many aftermarket goodies so whats the best bolt on turbo for these cars and how much? theres no performance shops in leth so i would have to go to calgary any recommened shops what do u guys think about speedtech? anybody bought any turbos from them and had it installed?
cuz i wanna get this car up and running before street wheelers.
thanks guys

[EK 2.0]

because its a 2G you are starting off with the anemic T25...although a decent low boost stret turbo there is FAR better out there...

The next step up would be a 14B from a 1G Manual Car...but they are getting more and more rare...

For really nice streetability, the 16G is by far my and most DSMer's fave. It offers nice top end and very nice spool characteristics. There are a few variations of the 16G out there...and the king of the hill model is the EVO Super 16G...it bolts onto your manifold, but you will need a Charge pipe kit upgrade for full effect.

you can go bigger and badder, but for daily driving and good track performance, the 16G is IMHO the best choice.

Just remember to upgrade fuel concerns as well to ensure safe boost to your engine...

[mr.loco]

for a new 16g how much am i looking?

[heavyD]

Originally posted by mr.loco
for a new 16g how much am i looking?

Go with the EVOIII 16G if you are going that route. Probably one of the best bang for the buck you can get. They sell for between $500 & $600 U.S. new and you will need a installation kit as 14B's, 16G's are bolt-on's for 1G's and require a J-pipe and a new oil return line for a 2G. Don't buy the EVOIII GT turbo as it is a knock-off. To ensure that you are buying the MHI EVOIII 16G you can tell as the compressor side of the turbo will have MHI stamped on the housing.

You will need to upgrade your fuel pump to a Walbro 195lph at least and replace your bypass valve with a 1G or aftermarket model. That will enable you to run 15 psi safely but any more and you will need to upgrade your injectors.

Install is pretty easy if you are mechanically inclined. I've done three installs in my garage and it's pretty routine now.

[mr.loco]

thanks ok just wondering with this turbo, fuel and injectors what is gonna be a usual track time? estimating?

[redec]

uh....can't believe you guys didn't mention the T3/T4 hybrid....awesome turbo for dsm :thumbsup: :thumbsup: http://www.diamondstarmotorsport.com/turboparts.shtml
I recommend the 50 trim .63AR....getting it from there you even the the compressor housing polished for free :bigpimp:

[BumpinTalon]

Originally posted by redec
uh....can't believe you guys didn't mention the T3/T4 hybrid....awesome turbo for dsm :thumbsup: :thumbsup: http://www.diamondstarmotorsport.com/turboparts.shtml
I recommend the 50 trim .63AR

it is a great turbo, but not nearly as easy a bolt-on as the Mitsu turbos.

[redec]

Originally posted by BumpinTalon


it is a great turbo, but not nearly as easy a bolt-on as the Mitsu turbos.

yeah...I suppose...the mitsu ones have the internal wastegate right?

[BumpinTalon]

Originally posted by redec


yeah...I suppose...the mitsu ones have the internal wastegate right?

yeah, same flange too. the t3/t4 usually needs a new manifold that has a Garret T3 flange, with a spot for the external wastegate as well, and then you need a new downpipe and probably new charge pipes and so on.

[redec]

Originally posted by BumpinTalon


yeah, same flange too. the t3/t4 usually needs a new manifold that has a Garret T3 flange, with a spot for the external wastegate as well, and then you need a new downpipe and probably new charge pipes and so on.

well...if you order them from that url I posted they come with the proper flange (custom AR housing), so they do bolt right up, but you do still have to modify your manifold to hold a wastegate.

[Go4Long]

I run a super 16G on my car at 17psi...it's a lot of fun...if you haven't already upgraded the clutch, you will have to in order to really push any power through a bigger turbo. Stock clutch was slipping at 14 psi...

[heavyD]

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
yeah, same flange too. the t3/t4 usually needs a new manifold that has a Garret T3 flange, with a spot for the external wastegate as well, and then you need a new downpipe and probably new charge pipes and so on.

Where are you getting your info? AGP turbo, Forced Performance, PTE turbos, Trubonetics, Bullseye and many DSM vendors sell t3/t4 tubos with Mitsubishi bolt on exhaust housings and instenal wastegates as an option. They all bolt-on to the mitsubishi O2 housing and no downpipe modifications necessary. They are a great alternative if you don't mind a bit of lag. The FPGreen I have in my car takes until 3800 rpm for full spool and some people might find that a bit too laggy. When the boost kicks in though it hits very hard and keeps pulling harder past redline. You will also need a minimum of 660cc fuel injectors and an an SAFC or DSMlink, etc to run a t3/t4 plus if you have a stock clutch as someone said, you better upgrade because it won't last long.

The EVOIII 16G is still better if your car is going to be a daily driver as you get quick spool up as well it pulls hard to redline but to get the most out of even a 16G you will need 660cc injectors to run higher boost.

[BumpinTalon]

the Garret T3/T4 needs a new flange, I didn't account for bastardized weird Garret/Mitsu turbos. The Garret housing flows better anyway, there is a reason Hahn Racecraft's Super 16G/20G (maybe 25G too) use the Garret T3 housing. I don't own a 4G so I don't know about all those weird turbos you guys mess around with.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
the Garret T3/T4 needs a new flange, I didn't account for bastardized weird Garret/Mitsu turbos. The Garret housing flows better anyway, there is a reason Hahn Racecraft's Super 16G/20G (maybe 25G too) use the Garret T3 housing. I don't own a 4G so I don't know about all those weird turbos you guys mess around with.

You are sniffing glue again. Hahn Racecraft Super 16G/20G are direct bolt-ons for 1G & 2G dsms and use a slightly larger mitsubishi housings not a garrett.:dunno: Those vendors I mentioned aren't bastardized. They are new from garret center sections & compressor housings with a mitsubishi exhaust housing for ease of installation. The Garrett housing may flow slightly better but at the expense of changing your O2 housing and downpipe which is not remotely worth it.

No one owns a 4G yet as they won't be released in Canada for a couple of weeks.;)

[benyl]

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
the Garret T3/T4 needs a new flange, I didn't account for bastardized weird Garret/Mitsu turbos. The Garret housing flows better anyway, there is a reason Hahn Racecraft's Super 16G/20G (maybe 25G too) use the Garret T3 housing. I don't own a 4G so I don't know about all those weird turbos you guys mess around with.

Shouldn't you leave Turbo talk to people who actually have Turbos in their car? Why are you spreading mis-information about something you have read? Why don't you leave the advice to the people who have actually swapped turbos on their car?

[BumpinTalon]

Originally posted by heavyD


You are sniffing glue again. Hahn Racecraft Super 16G/20G are direct bolt-ons for 1G & 2G dsms and use a slightly larger mitsubishi housings not a garrett.:dunno: Those vendors I mentioned aren't bastardized. They are new from garret center sections & compressor housings with a mitsubishi exhaust housing for ease of installation. The Garrett housing may flow slightly better but at the expense of changing your O2 housing and downpipe which is not remotely worth it.

No one owns a 4G yet as they won't be released in Canada for a couple of weeks.;)

odds are you are probably going to get a bigger downpipe and exhaust down the road anyway, so how is it not remotely worth it? the 3" downpipe is a great mod for 4G63 talons. O2 housing, no biggy, buy a new one or make one.
people have turned great numbers on either turbo, so really its up to your budget.

and Benyl, thanks for your gigantically useful contribution to this thread. last I checked, it is a lot harder to turbo a non-turbo car then to swap turbos.

[rice_eater]

hanh racecraft makes turbo systems for DSMs and mostly uses S16G and S20G turbos

[BumpinTalon]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use (http://forums.beyond.ca/articles.php?action=data&item=1) before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[heavyD]

Back to the original post. If you opt for a 16G or EVOIII 16G don't buy the 2G installation kits all DSM vendors sell as it's a rip off. I have a spare J-pipe and any little parts you may need you can order for cheap through Mitsubishi canada. Let me know and I'll give you a list of what you'll need.

[2.0turbo]

http://calgdsm.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/305608762/m/532103119


You'll have to register, but there is a polished and ceramic coated evo3 16g for sale on there with about 5000 kms. Plus you should sign up anyhow, its a local dsm club.
The evo 16g will be good to about 350 hp (19psi - 21psi) with supporting mods consisting of 650's or higher, 190 lph pump (minimum and rewired, if you go higher you will need an afpr), maf-translator, intercooler, and clutch (careful which one you choose because a heavy clutch will induce crankwalk on you 2g). You will be pullling your awd down the track in the 12's.

[2.0turbo]

Cancel that, the turbo sold, sorry. Anyhow, there getting easier to come by, check out lightspeedinnovations for parts. Their located in red deer and have good pricing.

[b_t]

Originally posted by 2.0turbo
you will be pullling your awd down the track in the 12's.

I dunno about that. low to mid-13s with good driving. at Bud Park he could run 12s, at Race City it would be much tougher. but a local guy with a 20G, JDM engine swap, straight dump exhaust, and a bunch of other stuff said himself he had trouble with 13s. whever that was the setup or the driver's fault remains to be seen.

[2.0turbo]

Originally posted by b_t


I dunno about that. low to mid-13s with good driving. at Bud Park he could run 12s, at Race City it would be much tougher. but a local guy with a 20G, JDM engine swap, straight dump exhaust, and a bunch of other stuff said himself he had trouble with 13s. whever that was the setup or the driver's fault remains to be seen.

Your right, come to think of it, most people with 16g's run low 13's here in calgary. However, I think that 12's are pretty easily attainable from both of the cars. One was running a small 16g, the other a big16g. I would say though that a evo16g is a better turbo than a 20g, and if both cars had the same set up and one had an evo16, the other had a 20, I'd put my money on the one with an evo16, as long as it was quarter mile.

And Mr. Loco good luck with your hunt.

[Boosted_TL]

Originally posted by mr.loco
im a noob to these cars but all i know that they are the best bang for your buck regarding hp an looks. whoever knows about these cars i hopr u can help me out its a 97 tsi with cam gears and full exhaust not many aftermarket goodies so whats the best bolt on turbo for these cars and how much? theres no performance shops in leth so i would have to go to calgary any recommened shops what do u guys think about speedtech? anybody bought any turbos from them and had it installed?
cuz i wanna get this car up and running before street wheelers.
thanks guys


I would stick with Lightspeed Innovations, in Red Deer for any DSM stuff. Speak with Cam. As I am a HUGE DSM fan, I will have to suggest what the majority of the DSM guys are saying in sticking with the EVO 16G. Its cheap and has great spool. I have a Big 16G in my 93 and I have ran 13.5's in Calgary @ 15LBS, now the Big 16G is capable of 20PSI whilst still in its efficiency. So a really low 13 sec QTR in Calgary is very attainable. So dish out around 3-5K and add this to your car for Street Wheeler's....lol

EVO 16G
650cc Injectors
Port your 2G Exhaust Manifold
255 Walbro Fuel Pump w/ Regulator
FMIC
3" Turbo back stainless steel exhaust ( looks like you already have )
Some sort of aftermarket clutch - I recommened the ACT 2600
SAFC II - Air Flow Converter
Electronic Boost Controller
EGT Gauge and Prob

All of the above is a great start to having over 300WHP on the street, come to think of it, my car has all of the above except the EVO.

3 quick words of advise with DSM's

1. Dont go off the hook with AWD launches......your trans will not last. If you do a relatively hard launch and feel a chattering. Dont worry to much it is your driveshaft bouncing as we have 2 piece drive shafts.

2. Dont bang through the gears like you would in a Honda, just shift nice and let each gear move you. Syncros are usually gone on a used DSM except on mine....hahaha


3. Welcome to the wonderful world of a DSM.......

[b_t]

to help with the transmission problems, either don't bag it too hard, or get your transmission rebuilt by shep racing for just under $900usd. or buy an all new one for $2,400.
getting it rebuilt is very worthwhile because then it will be invincible.
http://www.shepracing.com/
if you feel like replacing it a lot, there are part-outs on DSMs every two or three months usually over on ca.dsm.org and less often on calg.dsm.org
other great resources for DSMs are http://www.dsmtuners.com/ (probably the best), http://www.dsmtalk.com/ (its okay), there is a 4G63 section on http://www.2gnt.com/ with some knowledgeable guys in it, mostly 1st gen guys, and then for parts there is http://www.dsmtrader.com/ (look out on this site, LOTS of scammers).

[Go4Long]

Originally posted by rice_eater
hanh racecraft makes turbo systems for DSMs and mostly uses S16G and S20G turbos

the hahn super 16G is totally different from an EVO III...I run the hahn racecraft super 16g in my car...it is a 16g housing with a 20G compressor wheel or something like that(can't remember the specifics). it is designed to be used as a cheater turbo for people still wanting to compete in a stock class...

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by Go4Long


the hahn super 16G is totally different from an EVO III...I run the hahn racecraft super 16g in my car...it is a 16g housing with a 20G compressor wheel or something like that(can't remember the specifics). it is designed to be used as a cheater turbo for people still wanting to compete in a stock class...


CHEATER!!;)

[Go4Long]

lol...only if my car didn't run like ass :P

[mr.loco]

shit u guys know what ur talkin about so who wants to do the switch? i think ill go for big 16g.

[b_t]

Originally posted by mr.loco
shit u guys know what ur talkin about so who wants to do the switch? i think ill go for big 16g.

its not that hard dude
just dedicate a weekend to it, really take your time, and double check everything as you do it. all you are doing is replacing a part with something that is basically a direct replacement part, so its not really brain surgery.
block the oil and coolant feed lines with bolts so they don't spit everywhere when you disconnect them, label them if you can't remember which is which. if you get an install kit you will replace the oil lines anyway with SS lines. even if you don't get the install kit, I would highly recommend you get a SS feed line (you need one) and a better return line. the coolant lines are going to be re-used.
you don't need to port your manifold or O2 housing but it is probably a good idea to do that while you are down there anyway. it is pretty easy with an electric die grinder. everybody on DSMtuners says to port everything while its apart or you'll kick yourself in the end when you have to take it all apart to port it.
if you get the turbo ported, get a 7cm gasket, if its not get the 6cm gasket. you SHOULD get new gaskets, they don't cost much, but you could re-use them. I would not recommend that.

[heavyD]

Bring the car into your garage on a Friday night and drain your engine oil & coolant. Spray all the manifold & exhaust bolts with PB blaster or equivalent and leave the car overnight. This will help preventing you from breaking a stud or bolt as with the older cars the bolts can be very hard to remove.

Most importantly. Buy all new exhaust gaskets for the turbo, O2 housing, downpipe, exhaust manifold to head (OEM steel one), crush washers (4) for the cooland banjo bolts, spare stud and nuts for head, and a spare bolt or two for the turbo. There's nothing worse than breaking a stud or bolt while you are midway into your install and having to go all around town searching for replacements. Do a little checklist and make sure you have everything you need.

It's really pretty easy if you have metric tools and the parts.

[rice_eater]

^^^ where in town do you get gaskets for a T3 and the 3bolt downpipe gasket that the hanh turbos use?

[pressure_ratio]

Good thread.I've been looking at picking up a 1g talon so I've been looking for info on them.What about the intercoolers on these cars with the 16g upgrade?At what point should someone be looking at an upgrade?
A little off subject,where would someone get syncro's for a tranny?Dealer?How much?
I've heard somthing about stealth r/t syncro's as an upgrade.
thanks for any info guys.

[EK 2.0]

Don't know anything about the Tranny questions...

But a FMIC or a SMIC upgrade is always a good idea, even on the stock 14B.

A great upgrade but getting harder and harder to find is the MKIV Supra Sidemount I/C. It fits into the stock SMIC location with a liltte bit of work and flows amazingly well, and stay sleathy. If you want a basic FMIC upgrade...the Starion one is nice, again getting harder to come by, it flows barely more than the stock SMIC, but is a FMIC...when I was a DSM-er, the EVO III, and IV FMIC's were very popular FMIC upgrades. But from my understanding now, the SRT-4 I/C's are the new hotness for a lot of appllications.

[ron korolak]

Originally posted by heavyD


You are sniffing glue again. Hahn Racecraft Super 16G/20G are direct bolt-ons for 1G & 2G dsms and use a slightly larger mitsubishi housings not a garrett.:dunno: Those vendors I mentioned aren't bastardized. They are new from garret center sections & compressor housings with a mitsubishi exhaust housing for ease of installation. The Garrett housing may flow slightly better but at the expense of changing your O2 housing and downpipe which is not remotely worth it.

No one owns a 4G yet as they won't be released in Canada for a couple of weeks.;)

Hahn stuff is junk~! You need either a crack prone Turboneticvs manifold or two adapter spacers to make there T3 based turbine housings work. The 20GH well boost creep and they well back track on responsiblity!

[b_t]

Originally posted by ron korolak


Hahn stuff is junk~! You need either a crack prone Turboneticvs manifold or two adapter spacers to make there T3 based turbine housings work. The 20GH well boost creep and they well back track on responsiblity!

they also have a really bad habit of sending you the wrong parts, extra parts, multiple boxes of the same parts instead of different boxes of the right ones, and their biggest vendor (howellautomotive) is terrible and just compounds the problem. For my motor, though, there are not many options for turbo kits and Hahn makes the best one. It comes with their own log style manifold that lasts forever, even though they still screw that up (welding the Hahn Racecraft logo on upside down, for instance).
The housing is supposed to be almost totally identical to a 10cm Garrett housing but Hahn himself says that it comes straight from Mitsubishi looking like that, so even though it is a Garrett housing it is branded as a Mitsubishi. The Garrett housing flows better then a comparable Mitsubishi housing, but its a very small advantage. I'd still rather use a EvoIII 16G then a Super 16G.
I have never heard of the Super 20G having boost creep issues, though.

[ron korolak]

Trust me I had a 20GH and it did creep! When I told them about it they said go get an external gate. When I said but you say on your website that it won't creep, he just told me again go spend $400Us on an external gate!