Street Racing is crap for judging cars

[GingeRRRBeef]

In the recent posts about ludes beating tegs and accords and all the other war stories, I feel appropriate to post this article for everybody

[GingeRRRBeef]

From: http://home.socal.rr.com/faststangs/Photos/StreetRacingIsCrap.htm

So I beat this guy at the stoplight, my car is so fast!
or Why Street racing is a crock to compare cars
How many times have you heard this? I have tried for years to explain to people just why a simple thing as leaving a 1/4 second later than the next guy can make a slower car beat a faster car. Or how on a rolling go, i.e. on the freeway, flooring it first can mean you will continue to pull away unless the other car is much faster. Someone finally posted to the BMW M Coupe board on bimmer.org exactly what happens. Kevin Willmorth explained it better than I have been able to and I asked his permission to post it. Below is his post (which he and I edited to create a more accurate and generic illustration):


Anyone who drag races regularly knows that between two roughly equal cars, reaction time is king. Not top end speed, nor statistical B.S. datasheets. Reaction times are what will win a race, more often than equipment superiority, unless... the two drivers happen to get away at the same instant, which is highly unlikely in a street race.



Here's how it works:
You are at the light, and car "R" lines up on you. It's a dweebs toy, and you decide to go for it. Light turns green and you put the hammer down. But, man! he's off the blocks and pulling away already! You keep the hammer down, but just can't catch him. By the time you back off at 100mph, he's like 2 car lengths away. Must have been a more powerful car!


Not necessarily.

If at the launch they get 1/4 second on you, they are accelerating 1/4 second before you from that moment forth (you cannot get the 1/4 second back, it's gone forever). That's a whopping 22 feet at 60mph, assuming exactly equal cars and drivers. (BIG assumption, esp. in street racing).


Let's look at this from the start: From the starting line... 1/4 second is a distance of 2.2 feet at 6mph (a door length), then 9 feet at 25mph (half a car length), then 16+ feet at 45mph (full car length), 22 feet at 60mph (he's pulling away!!!), then at 100mph, they got you by a total of 37 feet, or nearly 2 car lengths (you got whacked!) And that's with an exactly equal car, identical shifting at exactly the same RPM's!


But wait you say! 1/4 second difference, that's a lot! Yes, it is for a pro drag racer, who operates under a .400 pro tree, or even a bracket racer running on a .500 second tree. But for a street racer, pulling on a street light? .250 is a close pairing! Heck .500 would be a great start. You aren't really sure when to go, no yellow staging lights... It won't seem like much time, and you might even figure, "OK, I missed the launch a tiny bit, but that's not important, I'll get him!"... you would be wrong of course, very wrong...


Here's an interesting factoid. Reaction times are NOT equal in cars with identical 0-60 or 1/4 mile times! Heavy cars are generally slower reacting than lighter cars. Some suspension designs react faster than others. Short wheelbases react more quickly than long. Soft suspensions take longer to move the car forward after throttle is hammered down. Stiff cars jump more readily. Heavy wheels take more power to accelerate, (time to rethink those 20" rims!) Remember that 1/4 second reaction time is a culmination of YOUR reaction to the light PLUS the cars reaction to your giving it the boot!


Just because the car you line up on has an inferior 0-60 time, does not mean you will beat it. It depends on the cars design, mass location, and a pile of other factors. It also depends on whether you get him off the line, or he gets you.


Line up on a fast reacting driver, piloting his lighter car, and he can take you out, even if you are the faster car!

For example, let's just say that in his "slower" car (car A) he gets you by that 1/4 second at the start. You take off in car B with your 1/4 second faster 0-60. Both cars will hit 60 at the same time, but you will still be behind car A! Up to this point, car A was only pulling away. From 60 mph on, you should be accelerating faster. Since you now have an equal,(soon to be faster) speed, the gap will finally stop increasing. Once both cars have an equal speed, the faster accelerating car, (B - this is you, remember?), will start to close that gap. So when will you finally pull even? Likely around 70-75 mph, depends on the car. So you see, that small start difference makes a huge difference in the outcome. How many street races do you know that go over 75? (I know they happen, but by them most are just racing in traffic and being stupid, not racing each other by that time). What if you started 1/2 second later? 1 second later? Count out one thousand one to yourself. See just how little a difference that can be. How many times can you think of where you hit the gas 1/2 second after the other guy? The average reaction time for most people is 1/2 second. So if you wait until you see him move, that is 1/2 second before you even hit the gas! And that assumes that your car reacts as quickly as theirs!

The shorter a race is, the more critical the launch becomes. Since street races have neither a fixed set of starting lights, or a fixed distance, the outcome has less to do with the capability of the cars, than it does the arbitrary start and undefined length of the race itself. Get a head start on the opponent and cut the race short if you know you are slower. If you start late, just stretch the race to the longest possible distance and highest top speed! (We are assuming you are the "faster" car -oh and we will not be responsible for your speeding!)


Because of these factors, street races are total crap as a judge of anything, other than who got off the line first, who's car might react the best to sudden off-line acceleration, and how long two idiots are willing to keep it up in the midst of traffic and road obstacles. Just be the quickest to leave, or stretch the race out longer, and you'll win more races, as long as the cars are anywhere near close in performance!

[Hakkola]

:werd:

As long as times are generally close for acceleration, grip is always a factor too.

[Scott]

Thats a really good post, I honestly never thought of that.

[buh_buh]

I think 5.9R/T posted up something similar a while ago.

[4wheeldrift]

Originally posted by buh_buh
I think 5.9R/T posted up something similar a while ago. Yeah, that was a few months ago now, but reminders never hurt.

[GingeRRRBeef]

Originally posted by Scott
Thats a really good post, I honestly never thought of that.

Yeah, racing is really never about the car, assuming the cars are relatively similar, it's always a driver's race.

[CanadaCivicSIR]

Originally posted by Silver_SpecV


Yeah, racing is really never about the car, assuming the cars are relatively similar, it's always a driver's race.

That is true!!!

[variable_x]

You are absolutely right. But then again street race does show which cars are about the same quickness and depend more on the driver and which cars are not in the same quickness class regardless of the drivers who are racing.

[GingeRRRBeef]

Originally posted by variable_x
You are absolutely right. But then again street race does show which cars are about the same quickness and depend more on the driver and which cars are not in the same quickness class regardless of the drivers who are racing.


well think of a firebird ws6 against an SiR even if the SiR has a superior driver, the firebird will still win (considering the driver doesn't misshift every gear or stall), when the performance of the car is that far off, the driver doesn't matter all that much.

[Ben]

Yes, but regardless, when you streetrace, you are throwing all those rules and physics out the window...When you drag race you are signing away all things such as a bad launch or traction or sleeping at the green. in Street Racing, It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning's winning. So for all those who bitch and make excused about stuff like that when they street race, you can shut the hell up, because you signed off on the waiver of all those principles when you lined up!

[GingeRRRBeef]

I think you might have misinterpreted what the article is trying to say.

I don't think anyone is making an excuse to losing but saying that the margin of victory is largely slim due to the driver's ability to drive when racing a similar car.

[Ben]

Originally posted by Silver_SpecV
I think you might have misinterpreted what the article is trying to say.

I don't think anyone is making an excuse to losing but saying that the margin of victory is largely slim due to the driver's ability to drive when racing a similar car.
Actually I was just commenting on street racing in general, the article was merely a thread to voice my street racing opinion of juding who is faster.

[GingeRRRBeef]

Well yeah I understand that and I know winning is winning no matter what the distance is

[T5_X]

I love this article, it owns anyone who says "car x is quicker than car y because car x won by 1/2 a car length in some stupid street race". This should be a sticky.

Oh yah, another good one ---> Car x is as quick as car y because the hp of car x = hp of car y :rolleyes:

[91_Integz]

Originally posted by Benny
...It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning's winning...

:rofl: F&F baby!!...hahaha

[jdmakkord]

I remember beating a civic si. His excuse was that his vtec was unplugged!!!! lol

[GingeRRRBeef]

haha

You should have told him that your turbo wasn't spooling or else you would have owned his sorry ass even more!:rofl:

[GingeRRRBeef]

Originally posted by Ranger_X31
I love this article, it owns anyone who says "car x is quicker than car y because car x won by 1/2 a car length in some stupid street race". This should be a sticky.

Oh yah, another good one ---> Car x is as quick as car y because the hp of car x = hp of car y :rolleyes:

that exactly the point of the article cause it doesn't matter if you have extra hp or tq, you can still lose a race with a "faster" car. Just like (knocking on wood) I can lose to a neon if I fuck up my launch.

[SilverRex]

so what is a good way to practice reaction time other than on ur car? if so what do u go by when waiting for the green lights to turn? is there like a way where u kan count the time before it turns green by looking off to the right set of lights when it turns yellow on the other lane?

if its consistance.. might get the advantage of taking off first.. and after reading the article, think about how many cars you can take out with the technique if mastered correctly..mahaha jk

[GingeRRRBeef]

haha I rather be the one to take off first, I don't care! They can play catch up. But usually, I take off, leave the throttle down in first and see if they keep up, if they do then it's a race

[m@+CH]

well besides speedway theres not too many chances 2 test your cars capabilities

[GingeRRRBeef]

true true

but I rather not test the capabilities of my car unless I've taken racing lessons. Don't wanna end up like the guy with the black lude at the last track day last year. I feel sorry for him.

[szw]

Originally posted by SilverRex

if its consistance.. might get the advantage of taking off first.. and after reading the article, think about how many cars you can take out with the technique if mastered correctly..mahaha jk

Just don't concentrate so hard on watching the other light that you miss the straggling car who runs-the red light or pedestrian running across the street!

[THREE40SEVEN]

Huh.. i normally give a head start:dunno: :D
When you get into high HP and torque, reaction on the street has nothing to to with winning. Traction does. I once got walked on by a stock ls1 because my tires wouldn't hook up on such a cold night(about 0-3 degrees).
The Polish Racing mustang(haha..) has won numerous races to cars with WAY more power on the street because he can get her to hook (Plus he can drive).
We'll wait and see how my new nitto's do in the spring...
Some of you dont go to the track, so where does a win count?

[CVPP]

I completely agree it is all about the take off and first gear and the drivers responce time. But, that is all factored into racing that is why if you make your car faster you still would be able to catch a car that is moderately faster I have seen people be ahead by 15 and still lose a race...It was a Olds 442 and a Alpha Romeo (s/p) with a v8 dropped in it the 442 smoked him on the take off but there was so much torque the alpha was smoking and the torque twisted the frame but when he gripped he tool of nearly and ended up smoking the 442 (it was a mile long race) and it was great.

[Glowrider]

Street racing is a crock to compare cars

Agreed. I've always felt that the best way to make your car slow, is to run it down the strip. No one REALLY knows what their car runs untill you go to the track and get some hard numbers.

I hate when people say "Well...I beat a 13 second car on the street last night, so that must mean my car runs 12's!". It's just stupid. I never believe anyones times unless I see a timeslip.

[GingeRRRBeef]

Originally posted by Glowrider


Agreed. I've always felt that the best way to make your car slow, is to run it down the strip. No one REALLY knows what their car runs untill you go to the track and get some hard numbers.

I hate when people say "Well...I beat a 13 second car on the street last night, so that must mean my car runs 12's!". It's just stupid. I never believe anyones times unless I see a timeslip.


:werd: Sweeet ride by the way :thumbsup:

[ancient]

Originally posted by Silver_SpecV
true true

but I rather not test the capabilities of my car unless I've taken racing lessons. Don't wanna end up like the guy with the black lude at the last track day last year. I feel sorry for him.

LOL who was this?

[shadowz]

Originally posted by ancient


LOL who was this?

a 5th gen running 17's

[Glowrider]

Well the strip can be used as a cheaper alternative to racing lessons, which are far from cheap. At the track, you can be sure whether or not what you're doing to turn faster times is working. It's better than sitting on some back road saying to yourself "Well...it feels faster!".

Like I said, the fastest way to make your car slow is to go to the track. But once there you can use it as a tool to improve your driving.

BTW, thanks for the compliment SpecV

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by ancient


LOL who was this?
that was me.

[ancient]

Eeek, lude at this elavation, i would hope would run a high 15, stock.

[Kronyk]

This thread is great, but keep in my mind, you can still go around saying your car smoked another. You can't say your faster, but if you win you win, and you should take pride in it. After all, if you were in a slightly underpowered car and you won, take pride in that your the better driver, or maybe you just got lucky

[Glowrider]

You can't say your faster, but if you win you win, and you should take pride in it. After all, if you were in a slightly underpowered car and you won, take pride in that your the better driver, or maybe you just got lucky

You bring up a good point. That's true. I don't have a problem with people saying that. But just because you beat a car on the street that ran 13.00 at the track, doesn't necessarily mean you will run anywhere in the 12's if you go to the track.

[GingeRRRBeef]

People that say that shit "should be stripped, tied to a pole and horse whipped in the snow" - Holden


teeheehee

[type R]

it's called run what you brung fellas on the street or at the strip no bitchin just do it...last week at my 1/4 i won twice against a faster blown SS impala...14.0** to 13.5** then [email protected] to 13.43* @*****,both times he was faster, both times i won. i dont want to be faster i wanna win

[Glowrider]

Thats all good and well. I just don't really see what that has to do with what we're talking about in this thread. About how using street racing to gauge how fast a car is, is nothing short of extremely inaccurate.

[type R]

i see what youre saying,trying to guess what you'd run in the 1/4 based on what you beat on the street