Worst pick ever

[PGTze]

With the &th pick in the 2005 NBA Draft the Toronto Raptors select... Charlie Villanueva? Huh? WTF is that:banghead:

They could have taken Frye or May, both a hell of a lot better.



... and he looks funny

[eblend]

maybe they were afraid that by picking someone who is "better" they would end up with another pussy like Vince

[ca2p3r]

what a bunk trade-day... :thumbsdow

[K271]

Villenueva is an alright pick, a safe pick. Maybe Babcock has something planned, there was that rumor about Maggliore coming to Toronto. Maybe New Orleans wants Villenueva and he's going to be shipped. Nights not over yet. Even if Villenueva stays, he'll definitely help the team, grab some rebounds, he's a great passer out of the post. He was going to jump to the pro's out of high school the same year as Lebron and would of been the 2nd high schooler after Lebron and a lottery pick. He can play center or power forward, is much stronger than Bosh so he can defend the bigger guys. A safe pick.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

pick makes no sense. lets hope he can maybe be a SF.
joey graham is a good pick but im suprised they didnt pick granger or green.

man i can just see it now, an angry mob with torches and pitch forks is marching towards air canada centre calling for babcocks head.

[brettg]

hes a good pick i think, nothing wrong with this at all.

[jumperman8]

first off:

Raptors need a new GM, one that isnt in love with PF and wants to pick one every year

They needed to get a big man, not a back up for bosh, that doesnt make much sence, and when t comes ot guards, when alvin williams is back this year they are basically set, Raptors need soem new front office people, i totally agree wiht the announcers, what where they thinking:thumbsdow

[jumperman8]

O another thing, WHY THE HELL didnt they pick up May, real smart, take a great center or an average 4, unreal.

[d-UNiT]

fagcock is an idiot

after the first game of the season and charlie gets blocked 7 thousand times by his own teamate, last years best pick Araujo, he will be fired

Araujo would never be drafted if it werent for fagcock god damnit, we could have had so many good players last or this year but once again fagcock totally bit a "badcock"

[RiCE-DaDDy]

Originally posted by jumperman8
first off:

Raptors need a new GM, one that isnt in love with PF and wants to pick one every year

They needed to get a big man, not a back up for bosh, that doesnt make much sence, and when t comes ot guards, when alvin williams is back this year they are basically set, Raptors need soem new front office people, i totally agree wiht the announcers, what where they thinking:thumbsdow

alvin is done man, his knees are shot and hes old. u cant really expect anything from him

[lastprodigy]

babcock is an idiot that thinks way too highly of himself.......2 years in a row with horrible picks......and to add to that the first thing the espn guys say is its a bad pick, youd think hed get the message??? like HAFA who the hell is that......and sean may would have defiantely been better than this charlie vulva guy

[K271]

We have a guard now in Ulic, he's played 5 years in the pro's and some how slipped to the 2nd round. He'll contribute immediately. May would not of been better then Villenueva. May is slow and only plays with his back to the basket. He's the next coming of Oliver Miller. May is over weight by PF standards: 260lbs. He did well for one year at NC under Roy Williams and his previous 2 were average. His success was more a fact that he had Felton running the point and everyone trying to defend him leaving May open.

Everyone complains about what a GM would do. Granted Arujo was a terrible pick but this draft was pretty productive.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

back to the lottery the raps go...

[bigboom]

i dont think villaneuva is a bad pick...probably one of the better ones, frye is a little skinny, may is a little slow and big. the only other person i would have considered would be green, but green has such a big ego it would be a bigger gamble.

[lastprodigy]

raptors are in the shitter for a long time lets face it expecailly with babcock and mitchell up front :thumbsdow

[PGTze]

I just don't understand how anyone can be happy with this pick. He wasn't even the best big on his own team last year, that Boone guy was a better player then him. Hell they probably could have waited until the 16th pick and Villanueva still would have been available.


On another note, that Green guy from High School is sick, he will end up being a damn good player. He reminds me of a young TMac. Hopefully he has a decent attitude.

[K271]

Villanueva would not of been around for the 16th. He was projected to go 8th through 11th.

For all of you who said you would prefer Granger, Green, or May... did you see them play? Do you actually know what there game is like or do you just rely on internet posts and what ESPN says. Most of you have never seen these guys play. How can you say Green has an attitude? Did you see him in high school?? NO because none of his games are broadcasted in Canada. If you saw him it was from his one televised game and that was the Mcdonalds All American High School classic.

Did any of you see Villanueva play??? Probably not. I went to a few UCONN games, he's a beast when he wants to be. Did any of you know Granger has had knee surgery and has a bad knee??? An issue the Raptors didn't want to risk with. They got a great swing player in Graham, they got a guy who can play in the post and reboud, they got a point gurad, and that final pick, he's a team player and is set to do whatever he has too.

Bosh and Villanueva will co-exist. IT doesn't matter about if they are centers or power forwards. In today's NBA 4 and 5's are interchangeable. SUre defensively Villanueva needs work but what college kid coming to the NBA wouldn't. Very few are ready for the NBA defenses.

[Leekiwwi]

y didnt we trade our #7 + #16 picks for the #3 pick and get Chris Paul???
I think he is going to be rookie of the year hands down.

[Leekiwwi]

oh yeah, and maybe hv to throw in someone like Bonner or something, maybe they wouldve want Araujo too, hahaha

[RiCE-DaDDy]

Originally posted by K271
Villanueva would not of been around for the 16th. He was projected to go 8th through 11th.

For all of you who said you would prefer Granger, Green, or May... did you see them play? Do you actually know what there game is like or do you just rely on internet posts and what ESPN says. Most of you have never seen these guys play. How can you say Green has an attitude? Did you see him in high school?? NO because none of his games are broadcasted in Canada. If you saw him it was from his one televised game and that was the Mcdonalds All American High School classic.

Did any of you see Villanueva play??? Probably not. I went to a few UCONN games, he's a beast when he wants to be. Did any of you know Granger has had knee surgery and has a bad knee??? An issue the Raptors didn't want to risk with. They got a great swing player in Graham, they got a guy who can play in the post and reboud, they got a point gurad, and that final pick, he's a team player and is set to do whatever he has too.

Bosh and Villanueva will co-exist. IT doesn't matter about if they are centers or power forwards. In today's NBA 4 and 5's are interchangeable. SUre defensively Villanueva needs work but what college kid coming to the NBA wouldn't. Very few are ready for the NBA defenses.

CV is no 5 man. but considering granger and the swingman gang dropped like crazy and TO isnt gonna grab two of them, im not so disapointed in the 7th pick.

graham needs to work on his reounding and cant even shoot a nba 3. graham is solid but granger is just a better player overall.

seems like TO wants start a new tradition of drafting dinosuars haha

[K271]

It doesn't matter that Villanueva is not a 5!! Too many people caught up that you need to have defined roles in the NBA. You don't!! As long as a player is versatile. Look at Detroit. Sheed played the 3, 4, 5 positions with Mcdysess and Ben Wallace on the floor. All 3 are "actual" power forwards but the three of them were just the front line who co-existed well.

In Sacramento, Webber, Divac, and Miller all played together. It's all about how you use the unit. So many people forget bball is a team sport. CB4 and CV3 will do well together, they can play the high-low post offense.

And again, how do you know Graham can't shoot a 3 or Granger is a better player? Did you see them play? Or is this what you learned from ESPN or from the web? Did you see Graham play all 34 games this year at Oklahoma State under Eddie Sutton? Probably not. You all make judgements after not seeing these guys play. At least they want to be in Toronto unlike Carter and Antonio Davis

[RiCE-DaDDy]

^ all those guys u mention play the post game way better than CV so that doesnt mean anything.

Lol its fact that graham doesnt have much of a NBA 3 I dont need to watch all his college games to know. If both a expert scout and I watched all 34 games, his opinion will hold more weight than mine anyway.

take a break man, u need it.

[K271]

Funny thing is none of you probably heard of Granger, Green, Wright, or Graham until a month ago. You check the mock drafts, here some rumors and then you think you know it all. Stephen A Smith on ESPN is not a pro scout, of all the NBA analysts, he is the least respected by coaches and players. They don't take a word of his to be worth a anything. You all see a mock draft and expect a certain guy to be picked and when he isn't you think all has gone wrong. Well guess what, the Raptors needed a point guard and they got him, and that's the guy they were going to pick at 16, but got him at 41.. that's a bonus. They wanted a defensive swing man... got him at 16. They wanted a big guy who could rebound... got him at 7 and 54. All in all, they addressed what they needed. Sure you want a center but their were only 3, Bogut, gone number 1, Frye, didn't want to come to Toronto, Bynum, he's 17. Oh what about Granger... knee problems and has had previous surgeries, we need another guy hobbling on the court like Alvin Williams. The kid Green... guess what he didn't want to come to Canada either. The 4 we picked, want to play in Toronto.

The majority of you who disagree with the picks have never heard of these guys before. Never watched their games. You haven't even seen the pick up a basketball and you judge them. You don't play at UCONN under Jim Calhoun or at Okla. St. under Eddie Sutton and don't rebound or play defense. Those two are the greatest college coaches ever and don't accept crap from their players. Graham doesn't have an nba 3?? most college guys don't cause the college 3 is 3 feet closer to the basket then the nba 3!!!! They work on it and then will get it.

Sure those guys play the post better then CV... let me think why Webber has been in the league for 10 years, Vlade for 15, Miller for 6, Rasheed for 8, Ben for 8... I wonder why... experience?? Nah, it couldn't be at all.

[PGTze]

Originally posted by K271
Funny thing is none of you probably heard of Granger, Green, Wright, or Graham until a month ago. You check the mock drafts, here some rumors and then you think you know it all. Stephen A Smith on ESPN is not a pro scout, of all the NBA analysts, he is the least respected by coaches and players. They don't take a word of his to be worth a anything. You all see a mock draft and expect a certain guy to be picked and when he isn't you think all has gone wrong. Well guess what, the Raptors needed a point guard and they got him, and that's the guy they were going to pick at 16, but got him at 41.. that's a bonus. They wanted a defensive swing man... got him at 16. They wanted a big guy who could rebound... got him at 7 and 54. All in all, they addressed what they needed. Sure you want a center but their were only 3, Bogut, gone number 1, Frye, didn't want to come to Toronto, Bynum, he's 17. Oh what about Granger... knee problems and has had previous surgeries, we need another guy hobbling on the court like Alvin Williams. The kid Green... guess what he didn't want to come to Canada either. The 4 we picked, want to play in Toronto.

The majority of you who disagree with the picks have never heard of these guys before. Never watched their games. You haven't even seen the pick up a basketball and you judge them. You don't play at UCONN under Jim Calhoun or at Okla. St. under Eddie Sutton and don't rebound or play defense. Those two are the greatest college coaches ever and don't accept crap from their players. Graham doesn't have an nba 3?? most college guys don't cause the college 3 is 3 feet closer to the basket then the nba 3!!!! They work on it and then will get it.

Sure those guys play the post better then CV... let me think why Webber has been in the league for 10 years, Vlade for 15, Miller for 6, Rasheed for 8, Ben for 8... I wonder why... experience?? Nah, it couldn't be at all.


Ok for starters I don't know who your directing all this monkey crap at. Personally All I said about Green was that He is gonna end up being one sick player, not that Toronto should have picked him or whatever the fuck you're talking about.

So where exactly have you seen all these guys play before. I'm guessing on the TV like the rest of us, and probably read about them in SLAM just like the rest of us. Unless of course you travel around the US to watch a bunch of high school and college kids play, but that would just be pathetic.

[K271]

I live in New York City, I've been to UCONN games, I've been to the pre season NIT and the post season NIT the past 3 years. watched games at Madison Square Gardens when college guys come in. Because of work we get tons of tickets, living in New York City, I can see games at UCONN, St. John's, Rutgers in New Jersey, Virginia, West Point, Syracuse. And because of my work I do get to travel throughout the US and when I do, I get tickets for college football or basketball depending on the season. The nature of my job results in benefits such as tickets for sporting events.

Don't worry about where I watch the games. I was directing anything towards you. I was directing it towards those who's opinions are shaped by analysts on TV.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

^ OK big guy your the real expert and u watch a lot of the games, good for u.

Nothing changes the fact that graham's shot isnt as good as it should be, he doesnt have a consistent 3 pt shot.

[K271]

Sure Graham doesn't have a big shot! He's just got out of college where the three point line is 3 feet closer to the rim than in the NBA!! But you probably never thought of that. The guys 22 years old or something like that, really young so he can easily develop that part of the game. Second, they didn't pick him for that, they picked him specifically for his ability to defend, be a rebounder, and to be an atheletic swing man. If he had a NBA 3, or was more refined in defense, or whatever he is lacking, he would of been the #1 pick. He'll be fine, you can't judge a guy who hasn't even played a game in the NBA. You worry that he doesn't have a 3 point shot?? So what, he can contribute in other ways. You make it seem like he's not worthy to be on the court if he can't shoot the 3. Give it time.

And I'm not the big expert, I'm just more open to what the Raptors did and willing to see how this all pans out. And the fact that I follow bball is more of a passion for the game.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

man i dont know what u tryin to do, but it seems like u just arguing with yourself.

im just sayin granger is the better overall prospect than graham. raps not picking because of injuries is fair. noth guys aint perfect but i feel granger will end up being the better pro.

[K271]

I'm not argueing for the sake or arguement. I'm defending the Raptors and giving those guys a chance. So many people, maybe you, maybe not are making judgements based on what?? On what some analysts say or what some mock draft printed.
Granger maybe a better prospect and lets say he scores 23 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals in his first year and Graham only gets 10, 5, 5, 4. Does that mean Granger had a better year? In terms of individual stats sure, but that won't reflect what he did for the team, how he adjusted, his contribution, and more importantly if his team won or not.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

your argument is kinda flawed. granger being the better player and is able to put up better numbers, one can also conclude that he is able to help the raptors even more than graham did.

[K271]

Just cause I guy has better number doesn't necessarily mean he'll be a team player. Look at Kobe this year. He kept his numbers up and look where the Lakers ended up. No where. It's a team game. In the end, which ever player helps their team the best is all that matters. There is no way of ever telling if Granger would of been a better pick cause he'll never play for the Raptors. It's not about making it on to ESPN's Top Ten but to put your team in the best place. There are so many players that have great numbers out there, Kobe, Tracy, Webber... but none of these guys have excelled at the team game. Sure Kobe won 3 championships but he had Shaq. Look at the Spurs and Pistons, they have guys who unselfishly do things for their team. I'm sure Rasheed could have ridiculous numbers but he sacrificed them for a championship. I'm sure Ginobli and Duncan could have higher numbers but they were sacrificed for the championship.

Better numbers do not equate to team success.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

lol i write 2 lines u write a paragraph.

you're just creating arguments man. numbers dont equate team success, but it doesnt mean it wont either lol. logic says that better numbers means usually means its a good thing and its true in the NBA.

stop wasting your own time.

[K271]

True, less numbers don't equate team success, but too many people think greater numbers equate success. In the end we'll never really know unless Graham is a complete bust so we might as well cheer the Raptors on and hope it all works out, which I believe it will.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

^ well nothing is really wrong with thinking that way cause 95% of the time its true.

I'm hoping this works out for the raps too, but even with this years draft, they still gonna struggle for a playoff spot. It'll be funny when Ukic replaces alston in the startin lineup.

[K271]

I don't see the Raptors making the playoffs at all this year but you never know. They have no guys coming off the bench, especially if Donyell Marshall signs with another team. Hopefully Babcock can get some help through free agency or a trade.

[brettg]

the playoffs are probably still out of sight, i just really wana watch all these new guys and see wut they have, these europeans are always such question marks, you never no wut ur going to get. and as much flack as there getting about it i think villenueva will be a solid NBA player, he was great for conneticut.

[urbannomad]

Originally posted by brettg
the playoffs are probably still out of sight, i just really wana watch all these new guys and see wut they have, these europeans are always such question marks, you never no wut ur going to get. and as much flack as there getting about it i think villenueva will be a solid NBA player, he was great for conneticut.

ROKO is gonna be great! mark it. because he's been playing in one of the top leagues of europe and so did tony parker, and roko and better stats and impact all around. they got CV3 to be a beast on the boards. the guy can play the 3,4,5 so they will make sure he doesnt get in the way of CB4. They are gonna get rid of some junk veterans in the A-train and Lammond. Joey Graham is the aviator, literally. its gonna be fun to watch. we might squeek in at the 6-8 spot for the playoffs. it'll be good to see what happens in toronto in the coming months. also, i heard we are gonna trade Mopete to NOH for Magloire and other consideratiosn and stuff. NOH wanted Mopete anyways.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

well they signed CV so looks like using him in a trade is probably not gonna happen