Microsoft's Xbox 360 & Sony's PlayStation 3 - Examples of Poor CPU Performance

[Xtrema]

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2461&p=1

Final word? Doesnt' matter how they spin it, the production version would be equivalent to a 2Ghz P4 at best with latest GPU from ATI/Nvidia.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

That link leads to the aticles, so is this the one you were looking at?

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453


The article is raher lengthy, but explains in detail how the components of the XBOX 360 and Playstation3 SEEM amazing, but don't really add up in the real world.

A quick example: Nvidia has already commented that a graphics card more powerful than the PS3's RSX card will be available for desktop PC's before the PS3 comes out.

[ZEDGE]

Being that they are dedicated gaming machines I am not worried.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Excerpts, for the lazy who don't read the whole article:


The three cores share a meager 1MB L2 cache, which should be fine for single threaded games but as developers migrate more to multi-threaded engines, this small cache will definitely become a performance limiter. With each core being able to execute two threads simultaneously, you effectively have a worst case scenario of 6 threads splitting a 1MB L2 cache. As a comparison, the current dual core Pentium 4s have a 1MB L2 cache per core and that number is only expected to rise in the future.


So with the Xbox 360 Microsoft used three fairly simple IBM PowerPC cores, while Sony has the much publicized Cell processor in their PlayStation 3. Both will perform absolutely much slower than even mainstream desktop processors in single threaded game code, but the majority of games these days are far more GPU bound than CPU bound, so the performance decrease isn’t a huge deal. In the long run, with a bit of optimization and running multi-threaded game engines, these collections of simple in-order cores should be able to put out some fairly good performance.


A single thread is used for all game code, physics and AI and in some cases, developers have split out physics into a separate thread, but for the most part you can expect all first generation and even some second generation titles to debut as basically single threaded games. The move to two hardware execution threads may in fact only be an attempt to bring performance up to par with what can be done on mid-range or high-end PCs today, since a single thread running on Xenon isn’t going to be very competitive performance wise, especially executing code that is particularly well suited to OoO desktop processors


The RSX only has 60% of the local memory bandwidth of the G70 [7800 GTX], so in many cases it will most definitely have to share bandwidth with the CPU’s memory bus in order to achieve performance targets.


Remember that the RSX only has a 22.4GB/s link to its local memory bandwidth, which is less than 60% of the memory bandwidth of the GeForce 7800 GTX


NVIDIA has mentioned that by the time the RSX launches we will have a faster GPU on the PC, which leads us to believe that the performance advantages of the RSX are mostly clock speed related. At 550MHz, the RSX GPU should have no problems handling both 720p and 1080p resolutions, although the latter won’t be possible in all games, mainly those that are more texture bandwidth bound.

[iceburns288]

Remember the Xbox ran on a P3 at 700mHz and it still produced some damn amazing games... you try getting HL2 to run on a P3 like that:eek:

[b_t]

too bad Halo 2 is an ugly game and so far is the best the Xbox has managed. Look past the bump mapping on every single surface and you will notice extremely simple geometry that is comparable to what was in the first Half Life or even Quake 2. Half Life 2 looks so, so much better then anything on the Xbox you can't even compare.. it is almost an entire generation ahead, since Xbox seems to be about equal to DirectX 8 and HL2 is a DirectX 9 game with graphics upgrades coming.
And then look at 64 bit Farcry, and that is something you will not be able to manage on any console, this generation or next.

[eblend]

Originally posted by b_t
too bad Halo 2 is an ugly game and so far is the best the Xbox has managed. Look past the bump mapping on every single surface and you will notice extremely simple geometry that is comparable to what was in the first Half Life or even Quake 2. Half Life 2 looks so, so much better then anything on the Xbox you can't even compare.. it is almost an entire generation ahead, since Xbox seems to be about equal to DirectX 8 and HL2 is a DirectX 9 game with graphics upgrades coming.
And then look at 64 bit Farcry, and that is something you will not be able to manage on any console, this generation or next.

that argument may be true when comparing to a PC, but not when comparing to a ps2

[heavyD]

Originally posted by b_t
too bad Halo 2 is an ugly game and so far is the best the Xbox has managed. Look past the bump mapping on every single surface and you will notice extremely simple geometry that is comparable to what was in the first Half Life or even Quake 2. Half Life 2 looks so, so much better then anything on the Xbox you can't even compare.. it is almost an entire generation ahead, since Xbox seems to be about equal to DirectX 8 and HL2 is a DirectX 9 game with graphics upgrades coming.
And then look at 64 bit Farcry, and that is something you will not be able to manage on any console, this generation or next.

You do know half life 2 is going to be available on Xbox in the fall right and from the videos I've seen looks very close to the PC counterpart. What the guy meant is that for example Doom 3 on Xbox looks like Doom 3 running on a mid-range PC. Doom 3 won't even run on a 700mhz PIII. Consoles are dedicated so you don't need the raw horsepower of a PC to run complex geometry in motion. Developers can concentrate on one piece of hardware and max it out to the fullest instead of trying to cater to the many hardware configurations of PC that exist with the majority of PC gamers with PC's of the lowest common denominator.

BTW: Halo 2 used normal mapping not bump mapping like Halo 1 did. Conker Live & Reloaded on Xbox is the most beautiful game ever made on any platform. Hell even GOW for PS2 rivals any PC game for visuals with a measly 233 mhz processor or Resident Evil 4 on Gamecube running on a 400mhz processor.

You PC guys can use your mouse over controller or raw hp arguements forever what you can't deny is that consoles own most of the industry and the PC game market shrinks more every year with less and less games available. Half of the PC games available are console ports so you end up with alot of sloppy seconds with the odd great game like HL2, Far Cry, Battlefield 2, or WOW mixed up with a bunch of forgettable FPS & MMORPG's. Hell even one of the most successful PC RPG series of all time Diablo is probably going to be an Xbox360 eclusive.

[b_t]

Originally posted by heavyD


You do know half life 2 is going to be available on Xbox in the fall right and from the videos I've seen looks very close to the PC counterpart. What the guy meant is that for example Doom 3 on Xbox looks like Doom 3 running on a mid-range PC. Doom 3 won't even run on a 700mhz PIII. Consoles are dedicated so you don't need the raw horsepower of a PC to run complex geometry in motion. Developers can concentrate on one piece of hardware and max it out to the fullest instead of trying to cater to the many hardware configurations of PC that exist with the majority of PC gamers with PC's of the lowest common denominator.

BTW: Halo 2 used normal mapping not bump mapping like Halo 1 did. Conker Live & Reloaded on Xbox is the most beautiful game ever made on any platform. Hell even GOW for PS2 rivals any PC game for visuals with a measly 233 mhz processor or Resident Evil 4 on Gamecube running on a 400mhz processor.

You PC guys can use your mouse over controller or raw hp arguements forever what you can't deny is that consoles own most of the industry and the PC game market shrinks more every year with less and less games available. Half of the PC games available are console ports so you end up with alot of sloppy seconds with the odd great game like HL2, Far Cry, Battlefield 2, or WOW mixed up with a bunch of forgettable FPS & MMORPG's. Hell even one of the most successful PC RPG series of all time Diablo is probably going to be an Xbox360 eclusive.

if you think GOW or Conker rivals a PC game for visuals you probably have a crappy computer. the main character is fuzzy, and that is all it took to make it the best looking game of all time? uhhh
I'll grab a screenshot of the most impressive level I've seen in HL2 yet and we'll see if any console can even approach it. It'll be up here this afternoon. and if I had Farcry, I would show you how it looks with the 64 bit patch and then there would be no debate.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by b_t


if you think GOW or Conker rivals a PC game for visuals you probably have a crappy computer. the main character is fuzzy, and that is all it took to make it the best looking game of all time? uhhh
I'll grab a screenshot of the most impressive level I've seen in HL2 yet and we'll see if any console can even approach it. It'll be up here this afternoon. and if I had Farcry, I would show you how it looks with the 64 bit patch and then there would be no debate.

I'll see that Half Life 2 screen on my Xbox thanks. You haven't played Conker for Xbox have you. If major gaming sites and mags are giving it 10's for graphics and accolodates for one of the best looking games of all time I'm obviously not alone, in fact the Dead or Alive (DOA3 award for best looking game of the year by Gamespot over all platforms) series or even Ninja Gaiden on Xbox look better than the majority of PC games. You PC gamers have the higher resolutions available but only few have the hardware to run the games smoothly at a steady framerate. 80% of PC gamers are stuck running 800x600 with all effects turned on or 1024x768 with most of the effects turned off so they don't see these games as they were meant to be seen.

Your screenshot is just that. A screenshot, not the game running smooth at 60fps. Sure there are some average Xbox games (usually the PS2 ports) that look shitty compared to PC games but alot of the AAA titles are very comparable.

[b_t]

Originally posted by heavyD


I'll see that Half Life 2 screen on my Xbox thanks. You haven't played Conker for Xbox have you. If major gaming sites and mags are giving it 10's for graphics and accolodates for one of the best looking games of all time I'm obviously not alone, in fact the Dead or Alive (DOA3 award for best looking game of the year by Gamespot over all platforms) series or even Ninja Gaiden on Xbox look better than the majority of PC games. You PC gamers have the higher resolutions available but only few have the hardware to run the games smoothly at a steady framerate. 80% of PC gamers are stuck running 800x600 with all effects turned on or 1024x768 with most of the effects turned off so they don't see these games as they were meant to be seen.

Your screenshot is just that. A screenshot, not the game running smooth at 60fps. Sure there are some average Xbox games (usually the PS2 ports) that look shitty compared to PC games but alot of the AAA titles are very comparable.

the Xbox can't run many games at 60fps, and 60fps actually is not really an important number anyway. you can't perceive anything above 30fps, so why is running 60fps constant something you can boast about? if a game ran 30fps 100% of the time you would never notice. when a reviewer says a game is running 60fps, how do they even know? Unless they have notice shearing on their TV (very doubtful) or have FRAPS for PS2/Xbox/GC or measured it on a dev console they actually have absolutely no idea what its running at and are talking out their ass. I've seen Halo 2 slowdown in single player from time to time -it apparently it only runs at 30fps usually, but I can't really vouch for that (I have no way of knowing and neither do you).
just because my PC will hit 110fps in one area and then drop to 28 doesn't mean jack. as long as it averages around 40fps, odds are it runs perfectly fine and nobody would be the wiser if it is "only" 30fps or if its 60.
once accurate motion blur becomes a regular feature (and it will be eventually, on the computer first) to compensate for missing frames, games could run at a constant 24fps (what your average movie runs at) and nobody would ever know and it would look even better then games running at 60fps right now look.
plus, the new lighting system that is coming out within the next few months on the computer (where lights are a value between 0 and infinity, just like in real life, instead of between 0 and 1) is not even being touted as a feature on any of the next gen consoles, and it supposedly will be a huge breakthrough in terms of image quality since everything will be properly contrasted (ie. if the sun is in the background, everything in the foreground will actually be black instead of just overlayed with a glare effect).

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by BerserkerCatSpl
That link leads to the aticles, so is this the one you were looking at?

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453


The article is raher lengthy, but explains in detail how the components of the XBOX 360 and Playstation3 SEEM amazing, but don't really add up in the real world.

A quick example: Nvidia has already commented that a graphics card more powerful than the PS3's RSX card will be available for desktop PC's before the PS3 comes out.

Well, the article I linked got pulled. Looks like both company don't want the truth to be told.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Well, the article I linked got pulled. Looks like both company don't want the truth to be told.

Maybe because it was full of false information?:rolleyes: Funny how false articles seem to disappear when leagal action is threatened. Some of the talk about the single threaded talk is BS as the only way they would know this is if they actually had the hardware and programming tools for each console as NO ONE outside of Sony & Microsoft know exact hardware specs. Hell even current Xbox360 games (and demos shown) are being developed on top of the line G5 apple computers that can only run the games at 30% of the Xbox360 capabilities.

Honesly you guys are fighting a losing argument.

[b_t]

Originally posted by heavyD


Maybe because it was full of false information?:rolleyes: Funny how false articles seem to disappear when leagal action is threatened. Some of the talk about the single threaded talk is BS as the only way they would know this is if they actually had the hardware and programming tools for each console as NO ONE outside of Sony & Microsoft know exact hardware specs. Hell even current Xbox360 games (and demos shown) are being developed on top of the line G5 apple computers that can only run the games at 30% of the Xbox360 capabilities.

Honesly you guys are fighting a losing argument.

That would be the problem. I like how you didn't even respond to my last post, which is usually a clear indication of the person who is at a disadvantage in a debate of any kind.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by b_t
just because my PC will hit 110fps in one area and then drop to 28 doesn't mean jack.

That statement alone condems anything else you say. Uneven framrates totally ruin games. Even 60fps to 30fps drops are deemed unacceptable for console games as nobody likes to play a studdering FPS. If 110 to 28 fps drops don't bother you, you must be playing through Bubble's glasses.

BTW: this is getting tiring as these console vs PC debates can go on forever. From an outsider's point of view I've owned this argument by the way.

[iceburns288]

Originally posted by b_t
the Xbox can't run many games at 60fps, and 60fps actually is not really an important number anyway. you can't perceive anything above 30fps, so why is running 60fps constant something you can boast about? if a game ran 30fps 100% of the time you would never notice. when a reviewer says a game is running 60fps, how do they even know?

You can easily tell the difference between 30 and 60fps. You can interpret things to about 200fps, not 30. Your information is bullshit man. The only reason TV runs at 27fps is because that was the standard started by some guy a long time ago. It's not hard at all to tell the difference between 30 and 60fps, I noticed in Rallisport Challenge 2. The game is 60fps and the replays are 30, and it didn't take me long to see on my own.

[b_t]

Originally posted by heavyD


That statement alone condems anything else you say. Uneven framrates totally ruin games. Even 60fps to 30fps drops are deemed unacceptable for console games as nobody likes to play a studdering FPS. If 110 to 28 fps drops don't bother you, you must be playing through Bubble's glasses.

BTW: this is getting tiring as these console vs PC debates can go on forever. From an outsider's point of view I've owned this argument by the way.

are you an outsider? fuck no
and I've never noticed a stutter ever. doesn't matter how big the drops were, nothing changes between 110fps and 28fps if the game is coded well. Try and find a HL2 demo (where he is in Ravenholm, I believe), watch it once and you will think it is running well the whole way through with absolutely no stuttering, but then realize that his framerate changes by over 60% in some spots and it made absolutely no difference.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by iceburns288


You can easily tell the difference between 30 and 60fps. You can interpret things to about 200fps, not 30. Your information is bullshit man. The only reason TV runs at 27fps is because that was the standard started by some guy a long time ago. It's not hard at all to tell the difference between 30 and 60fps, I noticed in Rallisport Challenge 2. The game is 60fps and the replays are 30, and it didn't take me long to see on my own.

Thank you. That guy has no idea what he's talking about and thinks he's winning some sort of debate.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: That's why these internet arguments are so wasteful.

[b_t]

Originally posted by iceburns288


You can easily tell the difference between 30 and 60fps. You can interpret things to about 200fps, not 30. Your information is bullshit man. The only reason TV runs at 27fps is because that was the standard started by some guy a long time ago. It's not hard at all to tell the difference between 30 and 60fps, I noticed in Rallisport Challenge 2. The game is 60fps and the replays are 30, and it didn't take me long to see on my own.

I just read something about how FPS matters and since it is an issue of human perception, there are no hard numbers. I thought 30fps was the limit but apparently not. here is what it did say:
- the more detail in an image the greater the FPS required to make it seem "smooth" since your eyes will be focusing more carefully and taking more "still shots"
- the less detail, the fewer FPS required to make it seem "smooth" since your eye will be taking few still shots
since you are comparing 30fps and 60fps right after another, then yeah you would be able to notice, but if you were to play a game that is always in 30fps you would never notice that it is only 30fps and if it was always in 100fps and then you play a replay that is at 50fps, you would notice.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by b_t


I just read something about how FPS matters and since it is an issue of human perception, there are no hard numbers. I thought 30fps was the limit but apparently not. here is what it did say:
- the more detail in an image the greater the FPS required to make it seem "smooth" since your eyes will be focusing more carefully and taking more "still shots"
- the less detail, the fewer FPS required to make it seem "smooth" since your eye will be taking few still shots
since you are comparing 30fps and 60fps right after another, then yeah you would be able to notice, but if you were to play a game that is always in 30fps you would never notice that it is only 30fps and if it was always in 100fps and then you play a replay that is at 50fps, you would notice.

Keep doing your google searches and maybe you can learn something instead of digging yourself deeper and deeper.:thumbsup:

[b_t]

Originally posted by heavyD


Thank you. That guy has no idea what he's talking about and thinks he's winning some sort of debate.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: That's why these internet arguments are so wasteful.

console gamers generally have such a limited understanding of the hardware involved they should stick to comparing the games available on the different consoles, not the specs, and should avoid comparing consoles to computers altogether since historically computers have always had better AI and graphics and improve far too quickly for consoles to ever replace them.

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR

a great computer is $1,500 because it performs better then a $500 console. this debate happens every time a new generation of consoles comes out, and the computer always ends up on top (performance and graphics-wise), so why will it be any different this time? especially if the GPUs in the console are already out for the computer.... and the processors are inferior.
plus you seem to forget how expandable a computer is and how a console is stuck with whatever big name publishers give you. the day somebody actually makes a mod of any significance for a console is the day hell freezes over. I can name any number of games for the computer that are FREE and better then 95% of the games I paid for to get on a console.
dunno about you, but in any given year I will only buy four games for my PS2 (I've had it for three years and only have 12 games, half of which I've never played) and maybe rent a few every now and then, and then after four years it and its games become almost completely worthless and I have to spend $500 (I probably won't get it until a year after release, so it might actually be more like $400) to get a new console to play sixteen more games (that cost a LOT of money now) which, in retrospect, are no better then the sixteen games I played for my previous console and not at all innovative, while on the computer, I can spend $200 to get a new graphics card and get another year or two out of it, get some more epic open-ended games like Boiling Point, Morrowind, Half Life 2, etc. and keep modding them to keep them fresh, maybe jump in and make my own levels to tool around in, and so on. I don't know of any console game that is still as widely played and gracefully aged as Half Life is SEVEN YEARS after it came out. and remember, the most played multiplayer game for the longest time (Counterstrike) was free to the millions of people who owned Half Life, and I don't think there has ever been a free console game.
here's something else, too: everyone I know with an Xbox got it just for Halo and Halo 2 and that is all they ever play, so they spent $400 on a console to play two games. :eek:
and consoles get more and more like PCs with every passing generation. they went from completely propetary hardware that you had to code in a specific kind of assembly for, to the Xbox that is basically a console that is a computer without an operating system, to these consoles that are built more by Intel, AMD, ATI and Nvidia then they are Microsoft and Sony. sounds like convergence to me. by the end of this generation, the line that currently divides console from computer will be gone and the PS4 and Xbox 720 will just be small form factor computers without operating systems, using all existing components from computers to maximize profit margins, since selling consoles is a money losing business as it stands. if console makers actually sold consoles at a profit instead of a loss, I would doubt the console market would be even half the size it is.
you are getting raped, here. keep failing to make a point and you might have to leave the internet and stick to xbox live.

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by b_t


blah blah

basically what your saying is that your a rabid pc fanboi and consoles suck... we get your point..

:rolleyes:

[b_t]

Originally posted by ZEDGE


basically what your saying is that your a rabid pc fanboi and consoles suck... we get your point..

:rolleyes:

and that you, heavyd, and iceburns are rabid console fanboys and pcs suck and this argument is going absolutely nowhere, much like heavyd's car after he grenaded it despite everyone's best efforts to warn him it was going to explode.
IBTL

[ZEDGE]

Originally posted by b_t


and that you, heavyd, and iceburns are rabid console fanboys and pcs suck and this argument is going absolutely nowhere, much like heavyd's car after he grenaded it despite everyone's best efforts to warn him it was going to explode.
IBTL

I have never said pcs suck.. ffs I have been playing the shit out of BF2.. :rolleyes:

[heavyD]

Originally posted by b_t
much like heavyd's car after he grenaded it despite everyone's best efforts to warn him it was going to explode.
IBTL

Sorry sport but again you are wrong. It spun a rod bearing due to oil contamination from an ebay valve cover which is far from grenading you idiot. I wouldn't take advise from a person with an IQ lower than my cat in fact I tend to only listen to people who know what they are talking about and that doesn't include you or Hollywood and some of the other tools that populate this site.:poosie:

[b_t]

Originally posted by heavyD


Sorry sport but again you are wrong. It spun a rod bearing due to oil contamination from an ebay valve cover which is far from grenading you idiot. I wouldn't take advise from a person with an IQ lower than my cat in fact I tend to only listen to people who know what they are talking about and that doesn't include you or Hollywood and some of the other tools that populate this site.:poosie:

gee.. it sounded like you were boosting too much on the stock bottom end... the 4G63 is strong, but not 23psi strong. and the fuel situation? hahahahaha!!! stock injectors with a FP Big T28 - you are a genius!
and from the looks of it, you never posted anything about contamination - ever - in any car forum and that is where that post was. better luck next time there, cap.
plus anybody who buys anything for their motor off eBay deserves to break something, so its a lose-lose situation.

everybody knew you were going to blow it BEFORE you actually did, even rage2 said so - and he really knows his shit. here's the list of excuses you used, in order, after blowing it:
1) rod bearing was already going and you just accelerated its demise
2) car was previously woman owned and did not have oil changed at regular intervals
3) boost creep to 23psi because stock O2 housing was insufficient
4) it was fine with a T25 so it must have been fine with a T28 :nut:
5) you've never blown an engine before so you look forwards to building it back up
6) eBay valve cover let the oil get contaminated and spin a rod bearing
you were boosting HOW MUCH on stock injectors? it was creeping and you didn't let off the gas and fix the problem? you didn't have an A/F gauge OR an EGT gauge?
you had an ENTIRE THREAD of people trying to help you and you blew up anyways.

despite your best efforts, you are the ass here - not I.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by b_t


gee.. it sounded like you were boosting too much on the stock bottom end... the 4G63 is strong, but not 23psi strong. and the fuel situation? hahahahaha!!! stock injectors with a FP Big T28 - you are a genius!
and from the looks of it, you never posted anything about contamination - ever - in any car forum and that is where that post was. better luck next time there, cap.
plus anybody who buys anything for their motor off eBay deserves to break something, so its a lose-lose situation.

everybody knew you were going to blow it BEFORE you actually did, even rage2 said so - and he really knows his shit. here's the list of excuses you used, in order, after blowing it:
1) rod bearing was already going and you just accelerated its demise
2) car was previously woman owned and did not have oil changed at regular intervals
3) boost creep to 23psi because stock O2 housing was insufficient
4) it was fine with a T25 so it must have been fine with a T28 :nut:
5) you've never blown an engine before so you look forwards to building it back up
6) eBay valve cover let the oil get contaminated and spin a rod bearing
you were boosting HOW MUCH on stock injectors? it was creeping and you didn't let off the gas and fix the problem? you didn't have an A/F gauge OR an EGT gauge?
you had an ENTIRE THREAD of people trying to help you and you blew up anyways.

despite your best efforts, you are the ass here - not I.

Hate to own you again but here is a thread from DSMtuners.com:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164401&highlight=glass+beads

There are a few others in the dsmtuners archives if you care to look. I also believe I told that to EK2.0. I didn't think I needed to make a thread to just to justify why I spun a rod bearing.

Funny my stock 1G Talon with 160K kms and 13 years on the engine with the same internals that it rolled out of the factory in has lasted just fine with that same FPT28 turbo and 450 cc injectors and 16 psi of boost.

Keep digging junior, soon the ASS of the year award will be presented and it won't be to me.

[scooby_dooby]

B_T your entire argument is retarded.

Eveyone bought XBOX for 2 games? There are over 1100 xbox games smart-guy, do you have any idea how absolutely RETARDED you sound?

Half Life 2 and Far Cry 2 are BOTH being released on XBOX. Both version looks for the most part JUST AS GOOD as the PC version.

The pinnacle of moder day PC graphics coming out on a 4 year old console!

There goes your entire argument out the window, over the balcony...and face first into the pavement.

here's the original article:
http://www.ansonwilson.com/anandreview.htm

It has been taken down and all signs of it removed from his site, including from his blog, homepage and database....

[b_t]

Originally posted by heavyD


Hate to own you again but here is a thread from DSMtuners.com:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164401&highlight=glass+beads

There are a few others in the dsmtuners archives if you care to look. I also believe I told that to EK2.0. I didn't think I needed to make a thread to just to justify why I spun a rod bearing.

Funny my stock 1G Talon with 160K kms and 13 years on the engine with the same internals that it rolled out of the factory in has lasted just fine with that same FPT28 turbo and 450 cc injectors and 16 psi of boost.

Keep digging junior, soon the ASS of the year award will be presented and it won't be to me.

does that post on DSMtuners magically make your engine not blown? ....no. still blew - everyone still knew it was going to blow - and you still bought a part off eBay for your motor, which still makes you a dumbass. it also doesn't change the fact you were driving around creeping to 23psi on your stock bottom end, without an AF or EGT and on stock injectors. and it doesn't matter what you were running on the 1G - you were CREEPING TO 23PSI IN THE 2G and STILL DRIVING. you are an IDIOT.

[b_t]

Originally posted by scooby_dooby
B_T your entire argument is retarded.

Eveyone bought XBOX for 2 games? There are over 1100 xbox games smart-guy, do you have any idea how absolutely RETARDED you sound?

Half Life 2 and Far Cry 2 are BOTH being released on XBOX. Both version looks for the most part JUST AS GOOD as the PC version.

The pinnacle of moder day PC graphics coming out on a 4 year old console!

There goes your entire argument out the window, over the balcony...and face first into the pavement.

here's the original article:
http://www.ansonwilson.com/anandreview.htm

It has been taken down and all signs of it removed from his site, including from his blog, homepage and database....

farcry looks as just as good on the xbox? uhh no, not anymore.
http://www.amdzone.com/pics/gaming/farcry/64bit/bigrock64.jpg
http://www.amdzone.com/pics/gaming/farcry/64bit/waterfall64.jpg
http://www.amdzone.com/pics/gaming/farcry/64bit/lookoutview64.jpg
http://www.amdzone.com/pics/gaming/farcry/64bit/boatglide.jpg
http://www.amdzone.com/pics/gaming/farcry/64bit/FarCry0006.jpg
all above are PC
all below are Xbox
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/132/917534_20050513_screen015.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/132/917534_20050513_screen018.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/135/reviews/917534_20050515_screen006.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/135/reviews/917534_20050515_screen018.jpg
took all the best shots I could find. the draw distance in the xbox version is halved, the textures are blurry, the other guys are lacking detail, there is less vegetation, etc. it is good looking, sure, but it will always look the same whereas they keep adding on more and more to the PC version of farcry every five months.
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/e3/0515/halflife2/914642_20030515_screen001.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/582864_20040511_screen006.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/582864_20040511_screen005.jpg
top is xbox, bottom is pc
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/914642_20041112_screen083.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/914642_20041112_screen062.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/914642_20041112_screen046.jpg
does even approach the level of detail on the PC.
here are my favorite ones to compare:
PC (I'm going to change this one with a pic off my own computer of this exact same spot)
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/914642_20041116_screen040.jpg
Xbox
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/582864_20040511_screen002.jpg

you are wrong, too. I can keep going, if you want. a lot of the images are linked and might not work so here is all the URLs to copy and paste, even though I doubt you guys will admit you are wrong either way...
farcry PC
hxxp://www.amdzone.com/pics/gaming/farcry/64bit/bigrock64.jpg
hxxp://www.amdzone.com/pics/gaming/farcry/64bit/waterfall64.jpg
hxxp://www.amdzone.com/pics/gaming/farcry/64bit/lookoutview64.jpg
hxxp://www.amdzone.com/pics/gaming/farcry/64bit/boatglide.jpg
hxxp://www.amdzone.com/pics/gaming/farcry/64bit/FarCry0006.jpg
farcry Xbox
hxxp://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/132/917534_20050513_screen015.jpg
hxxp://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/132/917534_20050513_screen018.jpg
hxxp://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/135/reviews/917534_20050515_screen006.jpg
hxxp://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2005/135/reviews/917534_20050515_screen018.jpg
half life 2 PC
hxxp://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/914642_20041112_screen083.jpg
hxxp://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/914642_20041112_screen062.jpg
hxxp://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/914642_20041112_screen046.jpg
half life 2 xbox
hxxp://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/e3/0515/halflife2/914642_20030515_screen001.jpg
hxxp://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/582864_20040511_screen006.jpg
hxxp://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/582864_20040511_screen005.jpg
one of the HL2 xbox screenshots if from 2003 (the one of the girl) and is probably not representative of the final product. the other two (with the soldiers and zombies) are brand new, and look more like Half Life 1 then Half Life 2.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by b_t


does that post on DSMtuners magically make your engine not blown? ....no. still blew - everyone still knew it was going to blow - and you still bought a part off eBay for your motor, which still makes you a dumbass. it also doesn't change the fact you were driving around creeping to 23psi on your stock bottom end, without an AF or EGT and on stock injectors. and it doesn't matter what you were running on the 1G - you were CREEPING TO 23PSI IN THE 2G and STILL DRIVING. you are an IDIOT.

It only had creep (actually boost spike) problems for a few days until I put the boost controller in manual and disabled the fuzzy logic. First of all AF is useless without a wideband O2 sensor, EGT is nice to have but not a necessity. Dude you are making an ass of yourself. Please stop before you embaress yourself any more. You can't win this argument because I'm smarter than you and no more about cars, computers, consoles, and probably anything else with the exception of being an idiot which you seem to have cornered.:closed:

[b_t]

Originally posted by heavyD


It only had creep (actually boost spike) problems for a few days until I put the boost controller in manual and disabled the fuzzy logic. First of all AF is useless without a wideband O2 sensor, EGT is nice to have but not a necessity. Dude you are making an ass of yourself. Please stop before you embaress yourself any more. You can't win this argument because I'm smarter than you and no more about cars, computers, consoles, and probably anything else with the exception of being an idiot which you seem to have cornered.:closed:

look at my last post and all the sudden you might realize that PC blows the Xbox away for graphics and will continue to do so to the Xbox 360 and PS3
AF is useless? they will still tell you when you are running lean. if a narrowband is useless, there would be no such thing as closed loop (you know, where your ECU uses the narrowband to control fuel at part throttle)
EGT is useless? if they get really high, you are not running well, and a quick check of your spark plugs will let you know which is which.
and you just gave your seventh excuse (or is it the eigth one now?)

Please Stop Now. I spent 45 minutes today doing legwork to put you in your place, now just be quiet and walk away with your dick between your legs like you should.

edit: you should see this really nifty video Valve just released showing HDR lighting in effect. the difference between how Half Life 2 looks even now on max detail and how it will look is staggering..

[heavyD]

Originally posted by b_t


look at my last post and all the sudden you might realize that PC blows the Xbox away for graphics and will continue to do so to the Xbox 360 and PS3
AF is useless? they will still tell you when you are running lean. if a narrowband is useless, there would be no such thing as closed loop (you know, where your ECU uses the narrowband to control fuel at part throttle)
EGT is useless? if they get really high, you are not running well, and a quick check of your spark plugs will let you know which is which.
and you just gave your seventh excuse (or is it the eigth one now?)

Please Stop Now. I spent 45 minutes today doing legwork to put you in your place, now just be quiet and walk away with your dick between your legs like you should.

edit: you should see this really nifty video Valve just released showing HDR lighting in effect. the difference between how Half Life 2 looks even now on max detail and how it will look is staggering..

Maybe you should ask Rage2 how useful a narrowband O2 sensor is as he is the master tuner of beyond. EGT's aren't accurate and fast enough re-acting to be useful unless you are logging it. You lost the initial argument, tried to get personal with me about my car, lost that. I don't need to do legwork with google searches because I usually know what I'm talking about. SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

[b_t]

Originally posted by heavyD


Maybe you should ask Rage2 how useful a narrowband O2 sensor is as he is the master tuner of beyond. EGT's aren't accurate and fast enough re-acting to be useful unless you are logging it. You lost the initial argument, tried to get personal with me about my car, lost that. I don't need to do legwork with google searches because I usually know what I'm talking about. SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

you already lost, a long fuckin time ago. you deserved the rib about the car, deal with it and learn from it (something you have a hard time doing in any circumstance). and you didn't tune your car at all.. so what does a narrowband's use in tuning have to do with anything? you were running stock fuel maps!
here is my case in point:
PC
http://forums.broke-off.com/uploads/post-478-1120174628.jpg
Xbox
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/582864_20040511_screen002.jpg
or hxxp://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/screen0/582864_20040511_screen002.jpg
basically the exact same screenshot. the PC one is obviously much, much, much better... and I have a cheap PC. a better one would have anti-aliased the trees, and be in higher resolution.
and here is the HDR lighting video, which shows another giant leap the PC will make in the next month or two: http://forums.gaminghorizon.com/showthread.php?p=512 the link is right there.

PC > consoles, this generation AND NEXT
End of story.

[Weapon_R]

Way to ruin an otherwise good discussion. Come to think about it, this is becoming the norm with you guys lately...