Wow I'm lucky(DSM almost disaster)

[Go4Long]

so yesterday I went to do the valve seals on my talon, got through all of them(left the head on) and went to reset the timing so we could get back going again. When we pulled the lower timing belt cover off we found the balance shaft belt sitting inside it's pulleys broken and very kinked up. thankfully nothing other than the belt broke...looks like it had been sitting in there for a while like that too...for those of you not familiar with dsm's, the balance shaft is responsible for over 50% of timing belt related disasters as usually when it breaks it gets into the timing belt and jams against the pulleys and you're cooked...
as a side note, if you ever want to try to do your own valve seals, a hammer, a spark plug socket(the big one), and an air compressor(we used a $90 compressor) with an adapter to go into the spark plug holes(or if you don't want to do that you can feed string into the pistons until it is completely full), and a socket set is what you'll need.
note that if you are doing this with a compressor, leave the car in gear with the e-brake on, as every time you switch cylinders it will drive the cylinder down causing the car to jump ahead, and you will have to reset the timing when you are done either way...

[heavyD]

Sounds like you were fortunate. That's one of the reasons I used a balance shaft eliminator kit when I got my 7-bolt rebuilt. The extra oil pressure is nice also.:D

[Jaxx]

While you were at it, you should have removed the balance shafts! Unless, you didn't take the motor out because those little buggers cause tons of problems. You will notice slightly more vibration but you will be worry free if you take them out. But im sure you know this ;)

[Go4Long]

yeah I know, and I would have, but just can't do it at the moment. I am leaving for Edmonton for the indy on friday and just can't take the risk of messing it up in the mean time...

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by heavyD
Sounds like you were fortunate. That's one of the reasons I used a balance shaft eliminator kit when I got my 7-bolt rebuilt. The extra oil pressure is nice also.:D


The Kit?!?...that's not with DSM tradtion...haha...you have to just lob off the balance shaft it self and rotate the bearings so the oil holes don't line up anymore...pfffft...a kit...and you call yourself a DSMer...haha...


Originally posted by Jaxx
While you were at it, you should have removed the balance shafts! Unless, you didn't take the motor out because those little buggers cause tons of problems. You will notice slightly more vibration but you will be worry free if you take them out. But im sure you know this ;)


When I had mine removed...I didnt notice anymore vibration than when I had them in...but after I made my mounts solid...man did I ever wish for them back...

Go4Long...glad to hear you caught the issue BEFORE it cost you a 4G63...

[Zero102]

Porsche's use a similar balance shaft design. Borrowed from mitsubishi. At least on the I4's they build. Same idea there, if the balance shaft breaks you're done. Very fortunate you caught that in time. I feel for you on how lucky you are.

Lucky that you didn't hit a big bump or something that would cause it to shift and catch on the timing belt.

[Go4Long]

Originally posted by Zero102
Lucky that you didn't hit a big bump or something that would cause it to shift and catch on the timing belt.
funny thing about that is that there's a wear mark on the side of the belt, it looks like it was resting against the timing belt, and there was rubber in the bottom timing belt cover :P


Originally posted by EK 2.0
The Kit?!?...that's not with DSM tradtion...haha...you have to just lob off the balance shaft it self and rotate the bearings so the oil holes don't line up anymore...pfffft...a kit...and you call yourself a DSMer...haha...
hehehe, I think the way we did the valve seals was ghetto enough for this project...lol...HIT EM WITH A HAMMER:P

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Jaxx
While you were at it, you should have removed the balance shafts! Unless, you didn't take the motor out because those little buggers cause tons of problems. You will notice slightly more vibration but you will be worry free if you take them out. But im sure you know this ;)

The extra vibration is barely noticeable but the higher oil pressure is plus you are removing some rotating inertia. Should be a standard mod for any 4G63 rebuild IMO.

[dsmturbo]

Well, I had a very small oil leak on my 92 LaserRS..I hate oil leaks. Looked like was coming from oil pan/bottom TB cover area.

So, I took her in to a friend to check it out yesterday. And Dam glad I did...The timing belt was now soaked with oil and a cam shaft seal was leaking. After taking it apart, the Timing belt had been chewed for about 6 " by the pulley...woobly as hell. I live in Airdrie and I am thinking it would have sucked if it went on way in..

Now, I have new belts, seals and pulleys.

Curious about the Backyard valve seal job...do you have any write up on it? I need instructions when I attempt stuff. My son usually fixes things for me..:dunno:

[Go4Long]

nope...we were going to use a valve spring tool, but when people tell you that almost no valve spring compressors will fit the DSM head, they're not kidding.

what you'll need is:
air compressor that will hold over 100psi
air nozzle that screws into spark plug holes
large spark plug socket(we used a motomaster, I don't think it matters)
extension for socket
magnetic retriever(just in case you lose a keeper)

basically goes like this:
remove valve cover(and upper timing belt cover)
remove cam retainers and cams(you could just unscrew the ends and drop the timing belt, after you mark it of course)
remover rocker arms(I kept them in order, not sure if it matters or not)
remove spark plugs
place pieces of cloth(or something similar) in the oil returns in the head and three of the spark plug holes
place air compressor adapter into spark plug hole(whichever one makes you happy)
Plug air compressor into adapter**NOTE**when you do this it will force the piston to the bottom of it's stroke, causing some of the other pistons to rise on their compression strokes, so unless you want a rag in the face, I don't recommend staring down at the motor while doing this
place spark plug socket and extension over valve retainer(whichever one of the 4 you want to start with)
push down on valve spring(do your best to go directly with the direction of the valve travel as you don't want to damage anything, and because if you push down on the valve by accident you could lose it into the cylinder)
you may have to push a couple times but eventually the keepers inside the retainer will come loose and either end up just sitting on top of the retainer, or falling down inside the springs
pull off valve spring retainer and keepers
remove old valve seal
apply a lubricant of some kind to the new valve seal(oil will cause you to burn blue again when you first start up, so...)
place new valve seal in position, again be careful not to push on valve as dropping it is really not going to be fun
place spring and retainer in position and place keepers inside retainers to they are resting together but not in position yet
place rubber insert back in spark plug socket upside down(so there is like a nipple near the end of the socket, this way if it hits the valve it can theoretically go around it)
place socket and extension on top of retainer
push down on socket(if you listen closely you will hear a click sound of the keepers clicking into place as you release the pressure) again, you may have to repeat this step a couple times in order to get them seated right
repeat the steps again for the other 15 valves, don't forget to change the position of the compressor and cloths as you change cylinders
replace cams, gears, cam retainers, etc
return timing belt to positions marked
double check your timing and you should be good to go.

hope that helps. not sure if it is the best way to do them...but it got the job done...

[2.0turbo]

Same thing happened to me, both times my motor was apart. I'm not sure if the little balance shaft belt could do much damage to timing belt, but some swear it does. My timming belt was ripping into the balance shaft belt and almost cut right through it, the balance belt that is.

[Go4Long]

if it gets under the pulley it wouldn't take much...as in between the belt and the pulley, could cause you to skip a tooth on the belt...and that'd be bad