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View Full Version : B17Vortech SC'ed - Dyno



Ekliptix
01-23-2003, 09:33 PM
http://www.clubsi.com/photos/dynoplot/vortechb17.gif

"I was pretty impressed, this was my best HP/TQ run, I had a better run by moving VTEC from 4800 to 4100 but the belt started slipping from some leaking Powersteering fluid after 6300 rpm and the max power was only 249 @6300RPM.

The Civic SI 8psi aftercooled kit is moddable to fit on a gen2 GSR.

Other mods I had with the kit:

CRV crank pulley (good for +3psi)
Hi-tech 4-2-1 headers
68mm Holley TB
Skunk2 IM
550cc injectors
Supra TT fuel pump
Hondata Stage 4B +emu
test pipe
RSR catback

My car sounds quiet at idle except for a whistle from the supercharger, after about 3000 you can hear the BOV if you let off the gas. I need some fuel tuneing and I'll be done. Needless to say I am pretty happy with my results."


:D

buh_buh
01-23-2003, 09:35 PM
if your gonna vortech, you may as well turbo.

Toms-Celica
01-23-2003, 09:44 PM
Why do you say that?

THREE40SEVEN
01-23-2003, 10:04 PM
Wonder why he tuned it so rich past 7000rpm, and why there are so many dips in the curves... I'd say theres are bunch more hp/tq everywhere with more tuning.

THREE40SEVEN
01-23-2003, 10:11 PM
And im guessing the vtec change happens at around 4200... From the looks of the graph it doesent look like the vtec made any difference at all as the curve follows the trend. I've heard from a couple of my buds, that if you're looking at serious power, non vtech is the way to go. Is that true?

Ekliptix
01-23-2003, 10:20 PM
only ay more extreme power levels I hear

90_Shelby
01-23-2003, 10:50 PM
Vortech kits for Hondas are very reliable, less hassle than a turbo and they make good power. Pretty decent #'s

90_Shelby
01-23-2003, 10:51 PM
Where was that dynoed? Is it yours?

Ekliptix
01-23-2003, 11:03 PM
It's not mine. I can find the location if you really want.

It's also the only SC'ed B17 I know of. The JRSC doesn't fit on the G2 GSR's

92 Teg-B18A
01-23-2003, 11:47 PM
so sweet, and if it can be tuned to even better! oh man the day of the gen 2 GSR is upon us :D

90_Shelby
01-23-2003, 11:48 PM
I was just wondering, cause I didn't recognize the dyno sheet.

B18C
01-24-2003, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by buh_buh
if your gonna vortech, you may as well turbo.

:werd:

I'm really not a big fan of centrifugal s/c's or Vortech. Don't get me wrong they make very good quality stuff, I just don't think they are worth the money. A centrifugal s/c is literally just a belf driven turbo. It has the same power characteristics of a turbo but they generally don't make as much power as a turbo. Basically, it has the worst of both worlds: it has parasitic drag (though this is not really an issue with the new blowers), the peaky power of a turbo (but not as much power as turbo), and doesn't have the adjustability of a turbo.

The only advantage it has over a more typical roots blower is more peak power (at the sacrifice of low end power) and it doesn't run as hot as a turbo because it isn't running off hot exhaust fumes.

B17a
01-24-2003, 08:05 AM
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :hitit:

Ekliptix
01-24-2003, 08:08 AM
B18C, but can you cool the pressurized air w/ a roots type blower?

B18C
01-24-2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Ekliptix
B18C, but can you cool the pressurized air w/ a roots type blower?

You can with a water injection system but the jury's out on the effectiveness on them.

Either way, you should be comparing the vortec to a turbo because it is more like a turbo than a roots blower.

Ekliptix
01-24-2003, 01:55 PM
I'm not sure of that(the comparison). I have read that turbos are more efficient, but SC lack the lag. Then again, w/ the right sized turbo and ballbearings, lag would be minimal.

You've done more research on this then me, so I'll just trust you.

B18C
01-24-2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Ekliptix
I'm not sure of that(the comparison). I have read that turbos are more efficient, but SC lack the lag. Then again, w/ the right sized turbo and ballbearings, lag would be minimal.

You've done more research on this then me, so I'll just trust you.

Thanks.

Of course, if you could find a good deal on a Vortech s/c it might be worth it. One of the main reasons I like turbos waaaaay more than the Vortech kit is sppp expensive. I think the GSR kit is around $7000. For that price, I could get a Drag3 kit that would spank it or get a JRSC that is more drivable and has more power "under the curve".

buh_buh
01-24-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by B18C

I could get a Drag3 kit that would spank it or get a JRSC that is more drivable and has more power "under the curve".
so what are you waiting for???:D

B18C
01-24-2003, 07:09 PM
I went for option number 2 :D

buh_buh
01-24-2003, 07:14 PM
Originally posted by B18C
I went for option number 2 :D
I shoulda gone with option 2!!!:nut:

90_Shelby
01-24-2003, 07:29 PM
Turbos don't create more hot air because they are exhaust driven. Common misconception.

Also a centrifugal is not more similar to a turbo because it doesn't spool up like a turbo. Centrifigal and roots spool strictly by rpm, although whipple/roots are more common to make more low end boost.

Another plus with the Vortech kit is more consistent air temp. with the water to air I/C, not necessarily cooler than an air to air I/C. Vortech has the best engineering on the market as far as there kits and I'm not strictly referring to imports. For the credit card racers I would definetely recommend a Vortech over a turbo kit as they are less finicky.

Sure a JRSC makes more power down low but when you're racing you're in the higher rpm range where a Vortech is superior.

Ekliptix
01-24-2003, 07:55 PM
What we need is a double helix, exhaust driven, IC-able, no lag system.

B18C
01-24-2003, 10:15 PM
Are you sure a turbo doesn't create more hot air? I have always been under the impression that they do. If you think about it, it makes sense. Your intake charge comes in very close proximity to your exhaust which is really hot in a turbo. Common sense tells me that would make the intake charge hotter than for a s/c where the intake tract is much further from the exhaust manifold.

As to the similarity of a turbo to a centrifugal s/c I'm refering to their power characteristics. If you want high end power, the turbo is the superior choice.

I have lots of respect for vortech. They are one of the industry leaders and they have been around for a very long time which speaks for itself. I do think the Honda Vortech kits are pretty good but just grossly over priced for what you get. As I said before, a vortech kit for a GSR is over $7000 which I think is pretty unreasonable when I can get Drag3 turbo kit for the same price (or even less) which has been proven to give more power, is more versatile, and has much more potential.

90_Shelby
01-26-2003, 02:26 AM
Yeah I'm sure about the air temp. from a turbo compared to a supercharger. That is why it's a common misconception, the fact that it's exhaust driven.

Centrifigal blowers and turbos both make power in the higher end, but I wanted to differentiate the spool up characteristics of each.

As for price, I honestly didn't realize they were that much money. Something to think about anyways.

Cheers

DjBurns
08-21-2004, 05:42 PM
does anyone know what you have to mod on the SC kit to make it fit the B17A. i have a 92 GSR and wanted to do this to it but would like to know what i have to do to it first.

78si
08-21-2004, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by 90_Shelby
Turbos don't create more hot air because they are exhaust driven. Common misconception.

Also a centrifugal is not more similar to a turbo because it doesn't spool up like a turbo. Centrifigal and roots spool strictly by rpm, although whipple/roots are more common to make more low end boost.

Another plus with the Vortech kit is more consistent air temp. with the water to air I/C, not necessarily cooler than an air to air I/C. Vortech has the best engineering on the market as far as there kits and I'm not strictly referring to imports. For the credit card racers I would definetely recommend a Vortech over a turbo kit as they are less finicky.

Sure a JRSC makes more power down low but when you're racing you're in the higher rpm range where a Vortech is superior.


Credit Card Racers!!!!!!!!!!! Too funny ! The super charger is even better for the mom's credit card racers!!:rofl:

Ekliptix
08-21-2004, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by DjBurns
does anyone know what you have to mod on the SC kit to make it fit the B17A. i have a 92 GSR and wanted to do this to it but would like to know what i have to do to it first.

Search on www.G2IC.com

three.eighteen.
08-21-2004, 08:18 PM
yeah a turbo will heat the intake charge just as much as an SC, all the heat is created from the extreme compression of air

Ekliptix
08-21-2004, 09:36 PM
I thought a turbo heated up the intake charge because the hot exhaust gas that flows through the Turbine Side transfers heat into the Compressor Side. The Air being compressed while in the Compressor Side is going to heat up that way I thought.

Someone correct me.

awdterror
08-21-2004, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by Toms-Celica
Why do you say that?

Because look at that torque curve, it's 100% grade A pathetic. Barely makes more torque than stock, and it just rises as RPM's go up. Look at a turbo car, the torque curve on a B16/B18 honda usually peaks at about 5000-6000 depending on the size of the turbo and then it just plateaus, making for massive acceleration. A turbo makes a ton more power under the curve, and if you think turbos have bad lag don't even think about owning a vortech car. It feels like you're permanently waiting for the turbo to kick in, because you are.