Nissan 240SX Injury Accident - Country Hills

[snowboard]

Wow, i just saw the most horrible crash ive ever seen.

i saw what was left of a skyline, or what i thought was askyline rapped around a lamp post. between shaganappi and sarcee. it was fucking unbelievable. i tried to turn around and snap a picture, cause words cant describe how bad it was. but cops had closed off the road by the time i got back.

wow to be realistic i dont think anyone could get outta that crash alive, im not rying to be a downer. i hope they did, but thats alli can say?

[JAYMEZ]

What color was this skyline?

[GQBalla]

ouch !!!

so did you get a picture of it??

[Skyline_Addict]

sucky, sad to see a car like that go. hopefully everyone survived, and i hope this doesn't hurt the RHD scene.

[snowboard]

it was black, and nah i went to snap a shot but the road was closed by the cops.

[rage2]

Hope everyone's ok. The roads are SLICK around here tonight after that crazy thunderstorm that rolled in and outta here.

[Skyline_Addict]

tonnes or black r32 skylines in calgary...i wonder who's it is...

[KLCC]

Date: Tue Jul 26 01:14:51 2005
Subject: Injury Accident - Country Hills Blvd NW
From: Duty Inspector

-----BEGIN MD5 -----------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
CITYBEAT - CITY OF CALGARY PRESS RELEASE
-----------------------------------------------------------------

At approximately 11:43 p.m. July 25, a 1991 Nissan travelling
westbound on Country Hills Blvd at Hamptons Blvd NW. lost
control leaving the roadway and colliding with a light
standard.

The driver, an 18 year old male and lone occupant of the
vehicle suffered critical injuries and was trapped for
roughly an hour before Fire and EMS crews were able to
extracate him.

The accident is being investigated by the Traffic Section.

The westbound lanes of Country Hills Blvd between Hamptons
Blvd and Edridge Park NW are presently closed and will remain
closed for the next 2 hours.

Release by Inspector Paul Manuel

-30-


Public Contact Information:

Traffic Section 295-7900

Public Email Contact:

[email protected]

-----END MD5 3d7350aedb9ba9acbe228f0b850a5787-----

[Skyline_Addict]

hmm if it was a 91, it couldn't have been a skyline...

[iblizzard]

yeah... I was taking a delivery (pizza) up to the corner of hamptons when that happened... didn't really think much of it as I drove past... but apparently it must have been worse than I thought...

[KoukiS14]

Looked like a 240sx when i saw it at 2:45am. Car looked as if it had no roof, possible jaws of life extraction. The light post is fairly bent too. Must have been one hard hit.

Just saw it on the news, it was a 240sx hatch with kouki tails. Im pretty sure its someone on here, i recognized the car.

[infected]

Ouch, hope everyone's ok. Sounds bad.

[talonboi]

i hope their ok

[Toms-SC]

240 SX with rear JDM bubble tail lights

[TheBenzo]

All over the news this morning.. pray the kids ok (Critical Condition) at t3h hospital

[Team_Mclaren]

Holy, heard the stars and bunch of cops/ems running around last night. I was gonna go down there and check it out but decided against it. Hope everyone is okay.

[BokCh0y]

yeah heard the ambulances and the helicoptor. was wondering what wa going on. now i know. hope the kid is alright.

[talonboi]

i got this from the sun, it mentions about a truck?? is this the same accident?



The STARS air ambulance launched after a truck slammed into a light standard in the city's northwest late last night.

Paramedics found a man trapped in the vehicle when they arrived at Country Hills and Hamptons Blvds. just before midnight.

Traffic was closed in the area while emergency crews struggled to extricate the man from the wreckage.

Witnesses said STARS was on standby while about a dozen emergency workers worked in pouring rain to get the man from the vehicle, which was wrapped around a light pole.

It took firefighters roughly an hour to extricate the man from the wrecked automobile.

EMS Supt. Gary Patzer said the man was severely injured.

"He has two fractured legs, a fractured arm and a possible head injury," he said.

He said the man -- believed to be 20-years-old -- was in critical condition and was airlifted to hospital.

He was taken to Foothills hospital trauma unit unconscious.

The accident reportedly happened at a high rate of speed.

Police sources were unavailable for comment.

[ryder_23]

^
i dont know why they'd mention it was a truck. It was defintly a nissan, just saw it again on the news

[talonboi]

^^ im confused :nut:

[4G63Power]

I swear it looks like this one ... http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91740

[dymz999]

I find that high rate of speed thing to be a little alarming. I sincerely hope somebody wasn't fooling around in bad weather. I don't think i know of anyone with a black 240 with kouki tails.

Is it at all possible that it was a deep blue color, not dark but a deep medium blue with kouki tails? If so i know the driver.

[jdmakkord]

Not too many sets of kouki tails out there. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out the car.

[Superesc]

Originally posted by 4G63Power
I swear it looks like this one ... http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91740

Hope it's not that car...

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by 4G63Power
I swear it looks like this one ... http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91740



Originally posted by Superesc
Hope it's not that car...



agreed...hope the current owner can clarify as to whether it is...

[bonnieclyde240]

Originally posted by Superesc


Hope it's not that car...

:werd: I also hope it's not that car, that's one of the nicest Silvia's I've seen..I hope the driver is alright.

[snowboard]

damn maybe it was just JDM lights i saw not skyline, i went by pretty quick

[atomic]

that's what happens when you live your life a quarter mile at at time

[dymz999]

the kouki tail lights can be deceiving especially when they have the RPS13 center section in there. so many people confuse it for an exotic. But for the record, there is one S13 that does have R32 tail lights in the city.

[talonboi]

Originally posted by dymz999
the kouki tail lights can be deceiving especially when they have the RPS13 center section in there. so many people confuse it for an exotic. But for the record, there is one S13 that does have R32 tail lights in the city.

i believe there is a s13 with r33 tail lights. unless we're talking about the same car..


i hope the car crashed isnt the one from STRD

[snowboard]

Originally posted by talonboi


i believe there is a s13 with r33 tail lights. unless we're talking about the same car..


i hope the car crashed isnt the one from STRD

it wasnt that one, i was at auto dream last week drooling over it. and its white, haha. but ok, i guess it was a 240, sorry for the miss communication, i was just like shocked to see something that fackin bad.

[shadowz]

Yes it is the Green one, my friends old car. saw it on the news this morning

[86max]

What a waste of a sweet car. Hope the guys ok, just met him last week.

I bet Will's pretty choked.

RIP nicest sil40 in Calgary.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

^^You mean the green one posted earlier?

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91740

Shitty deal. I sure hope the guy's OK.

[turboMiata]

a real shame. i loved that car.

http://www.portscan.ca/blog/archives/bwog050704.jpg

[Lo)2enz0]

omg, i know the new owner of will's car lived in the NW. But DAMN, that guy hasn't had that car for that long.

god, that was seriously my favorite car in calgary. Hope the guy is ok though.

[AcuraTl]

lets all be thankfull nobody died

[xtreme prelude]

Originally posted by 4G63Power
I swear it looks like this one ... http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.php?s=&threadid=91740

wrong wheels, the wheels on the wrecked car were 5 spoke, maybe he changed them, who knows

[duffspec]

Originally posted by atomic
that's what happens when you live your life a quarter mile at at time

:werd: How do you invest large some of $$$$ into nice ride and smash it up like that? Drive it with some self repect for the previous owner and your fellow car enthusiast.

Note to self: my 240 is not a race car and will lose to a standing/bolted object.

[Deetz]

Thats a bad situation, sorry to hear....he's lucky to be alive. Sounds like speed was a factor.

[86max]

Originally posted by duffspec


Note to self: my 240 is not a race car and will lose to a standing/bolted object.

:werd: Unfortuneately it seems a large majority of the 240sx community do think their car is a crazy race/drift machine. Hence them dropping like flies, what is this, the fourth or fifth this year on beyond alone?

[rmk]

cheers to a quick recovery and hopefully (or not :( ) he'll drive again.

[B17a]

Originally posted by duffspec


:werd: How do you invest large some of $$$$ into nice ride and smash it up like that? Drive it with some self repect for the previous owner and your fellow car enthusiast.

Note to self: my 240 is not a race car and will lose to a standing/bolted object.

I know it sounds stupid. But think about it, 18 year old with a fast car. Enough said. Most of us were 18 at one time, probably a good thing I didn't have a fast car....

[Crasian]

Yep thats the 240 that was involved. I was driving behind him at the time of the accident. He lost control, spun 180 degrees and hit the light post.
Me and a couple of other witnesees called 911 immediately, i guess i was the only one that saw it clearly enough, the other girl that saw it was too freaked out to explain what happened. So i gave my statement and i was told to go home.

And about the turck that someone mentioned, that was a seperate accident that happened about a block away, dont knwo how it happened but he went head first into the concrete walls that surround the hamptons.

My thoughts and prays go to those involved in the accident and their families. I hope he makes it.

[B17a]

Originally posted by Crasian
Yep thats the 240 that was involved. I was driving behind him at the time of the accident. He lost control, spun 180 degrees and hit the light post.
Me and a couple of other witnesees called 911 immediately, i guess i was the only one that saw it clearly enough, the other girl that saw it was too freaked out to explain what happened. So i gave my statement and i was told to go home.

And about the turck that someone mentioned, that was a seperate accident that happened about a block away, dont knwo how it happened but he went head first into the concrete walls that surround the hamptons.

My thoughts and prays go to those involved in the accident and their families. I hope he makes it.

Wow, that's a terrible accident to witness. Was he going too fast?

[FiveFreshFish]

Originally posted by talonboi

"He has two fractured legs, a fractured arm and a possible head injury," he said.

TV news at noon added that he has a fractured pelvis.

[AllGoNoShow]

Ouch shitty deal, nice car to be wrecked.

[89coupe]

You think these kids would learn to slow down a little. I've gone cruising with some of these young guys and they take a lot of unnecessary risks. I hope others will learn from this and slow down.

[nosegrindR]

yea that was my old car. :cry:

i sold it to the dude a few weeks ago, damn sorry to hear about everything good luck darren.

[Lo)2enz0]

hold up, was that darren (aka XylathaneGTR on beyond) who bought your car? cause I remember him mentioning that he had a sard bov and your car is the only other car that has one that I know of, and he lives in the NW.

that guy saved up for a car for years and he gets it and crashes it, ouch I hope he is alright.

[JAYMEZ]

Hope everyone is alright that was hurt ... Cars can be fixed or re - made , to bad it was such a beautiful car..

quick recovery on the hurt ones


and


R.I.P 240

[ProjectR]

yeah i saw the car sometime next week and he was taunting me and my buddy to race down country hills, crazy kids...hope everything they're ok though...but damn, what a waste of a nice car.:thumbsdow

[heavyD]

Originally posted by 89coupe
You think these kids would learn to slow down a little. I've gone cruising with some of these young guys and they take a lot of unnecessary risks. I hope others will learn from this and slow down.

Agreed. I see too many young guys zig zagging in and out of traffic at speeds well above the posted limits. These guys all justify the high insurance premiums that 16 - 24 year olds pay.

[1-Bar]

Originally posted by nosegrindR
yea that was my old car. :cry:

wow...sorry to hear buddy, I luved your car. Lets just hope this guy recovers and learns from this incident, and perhaps others reading this thread......

...save it for the track....

[googe]

there is a good chance that poor driving was involved, but we should probably not jump to conclusions...

it was raining pretty bad that night, he could swerved to avoid an accident or something, had shitty tires, who knows.

[AcuraTl]

im sure once this guy recovers and drives again, he will be a better driver than most!

[Crasian]

Originally posted by googe
there is a good chance that poor driving was involved, but we should probably not jump to conclusions...

it was raining pretty bad that night, he could swerved to avoid an accident or something, had shitty tires, who knows.

There were no cars in front of him, he just swerved out of nowhere... maybe tried to accelerate but lost traction?
have no idea how it happened... either way hope he'll recover.
That was by far the worst accident i've ever seen, wrapped right around the pole, happened so fast... hope he'll be alright

[Crasian]

Originally posted by 1-Bar


wow...sorry to hear buddy, I luved your car. Lets just hope this guy recovers and learns from this incident, and perhaps others reading this thread......

...save it for the track....

:werd: wake up call for me, i must admit i speed up that hill once in a while and the only reason i didn't is because all the rain and i know taht my tires are total crap
I think that when us young guys get our first cars, we feel so invincible, but after seeing what happened to him and seeing his car completely totalled and wrapped around a damn pole in less than a second... a serious wake up call. Hope other learn too before its too late.

[Lo)2enz0]

same thing happened to me. I used to drive like a total jackass. Than I was driving up sarcee SW and i was behind this guy who fell asleep at the wheel and his car went sideways than he woke up countersteered and flew over the the grass and into on coming traffic into 2 cars. after that they put those cement barriers up.

Damn if its XylathaneGTR from here who was in that accident hope he gets well. I know with my 240sx if I downshift in the rain I lost traction a bit. I have seen him driving this car before and he was driving it like a normal person. But he should feel lucky he is alive cause everyone who I have talked to that saw it on the news said he should have been dead.

[SilverBoost]

Sorry to hear this, but it's going to continue to happen unfortunately when you put a young inexperienced driver in a fast car. I've been there. I wrecked a few cars when I was 19. And that was in slow ass non performance cars. Learned a lot since then and I have 15 years of driving experience now, but I don't claim to know it all by any means. Sometimes it takes crossing the line to know where that line is. But common sense and experience will keep you from crossing it again. Two things that most guys under the age of 20 don't have. Sorry to say but it's true. Hope this guy makes a full recovery and learns a valuable lesson.

[Kaos]

Thats gotta suck, that car was in mint shape.
How long did he own it for? a month?

[01RedDX]

.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


I thought Skylines had been around much longer than that :dunno:

They have, but models that new aren't legal in Canada until next year.

[01RedDX]

.

[nosegrindR]

does anybody have pictures of the accident? I just hear people saying how mangled this car is so i'm curious to what extent.

[3G]

That was a nice car, I saw it last year when I bought a laptop off NosegrindR, what a waste of a good car :eek:

[Toms-SC]

its totally fucked, its basically split in two

[Chester]

Whoa, I must live pretty close to where this accident happened cuz I could hear tons of sirens and that damn helicopter kept circling above my house. I just saw that car on friday, took a pic of it with my cell phone. Hope he gets better.

[izzoblitzo]

ouch man... he was at last week's beyond meet I think.. had his hood up showing everyone and everything. This is a dangerous hobby if you dont know what you're doing... Let's hope he recovers from this.

Crasian, did you stop to help out or see how he was doing? Was he concious?? something about him being trapped for an hour. That must suck to be in pain for that long, and cant do anything about it.

[Nissanaddict]

Yikes. I just saw that on the news...not a pretty sight. I hope that guy's glad as hell he's alive...and that 240s have a 5 star safety rating. I hit a tree with my last one in November, and learned my lesson...walked away without a scratch too. Car was dead though...not as dead as this one. I hope the guy makes a full recovery, and let's that memory sit with him. As was said, if he does remember it, he'll be a better driver than most. My driving habits have changed drastically, even though nothing happened to me. Best of luck to him. As long as he remembers how his mangled car looked that should do.

[Hakkola]

Dude, that sucks.

Don't know why everyone is saying this has to do with age? What I gather from Crasians post is that he wasn't driving dangerously. Was he speeding when he lost control? If it was raining the way the article said it's possible he hydroplaned, I've had it happen to me while going in a straight line at 40km/hr, speed and driving skill might not have anything to do with it.

Anyway, I hope he has a speedy recovery.

[finboy]

wow that sucks, nice car, met the guy who bought it last week, i hope he recovers soon.

[nismodrifter]

I just saw it on the news on CFCN, as said before...the car is basically F'd, their camera footage was dark and I couldn't really see all the details but it does look like its split right in 2.
Looks pretty bad, he was airlifted by helicopter out of there.
Watch the CFCN news at 11:30 if you want to see it, they'll probably show it again.

RIP to the hottest Sil40 around...was drooling the first time I saw it at DTP.
Best wishes to the driver in his recovery.

[nismodrifter]

"Serious crash in northwest
CFCN.ca

POSTED AT 11:13 AM Tuesday, July 26

An 18-year-old man has suffered life threatening injuries after a crash in northwest Calgary.

It happened late Monday night at the intersection of Hamptons Blvd. & Country Hills Blvd. N.W.

It took firefighters and paramedics an hour to free him from the wreckage of the vehicle.

The man broke both legs, his pelvis, an arm and suffered a head injury.

He was flown by air ambulance to the Foothills Hospital.

It appears the man lost control of the vehicle just before midnight, hitting a light standard. "

[schurchill39]

That was a gorgeous car. Its a shame things like this have to happen expecially to nice cars like that. I hope speed wasnt a factor (Crasian can answer that for us). I wish him a speedy recovery and R.I.P to by far the nicest SIL-eighty I have ever seen



(P.S why is every one calling its a sil40? because its a 240sx? I thought that regardless it was called a sileighty)

[dymz999]

Ya and everyone better pray to god that when the police do their investigation that they do not find out that it was some aftermarket part replacement that caused the accident or created the severity.

I saw the car in the police lot. Did the previous owners take the front rebar out by chance? Looking at the damage he had to have been going 80 to 100km/h at least.

[schurchill39]

Originally posted by dymz999
Ya and everyone better pray to god that when the police do their investigation that they do not find out that it was some aftermarket part replacement that caused the accident or created the severity.

How come?

[dymz999]

These are the kind of instances that law makers make laws out of. The same kind of thing happened after those two street racers in BC killed that lady.

The huge problem with 240's is that most FMIC pretty much require the removal of the rebar, if that happened you can guarantee the police will notice it. Most of the guys in the states would remove it but would enforce the front end in case of a front end collision.

Its accidents like this which are very unfortunate. Speed may have not been a factor, it could have been road conditions or some of the mods done on the car. Hopefully it was just the road conditions.

[A2VR6]

Wow it was raining THAT bad eh? Really sad to hear :( (im out of the country at the momment so I dont know how bad the rain was)

[dymz999]

Yes the rain was bad. When I was driving home i had the wipers on as fast as they could go and it was not clearing it up.

A bunch of factors caused this though, not just one or the other.

[finboy]

Originally posted by schurchill39
That was a gorgeous car. Its a shame things like this have to happen expecially to nice cars like that. I hope speed wasnt a factor (Crasian can answer that for us). I wish him a speedy recovery and R.I.P to by far the nicest SIL-eighty I have ever seen



(P.S why is every one calling its a sil40? because its a 240sx? I thought that regardless it was called a sileighty)

sileighty is a 180sx with a silvia front end
silfourty is a 240sx with a silvia front end

this was a silfourty.

[schurchill39]

Originally posted by finboy


sileighty is a 180sx with a silvia front end
silfourty is a 240sx with a silvia front end

this was a silfourty.

Well i figured that much out :nut: I have just never heard any one refer to them as sil40's always sil eightys no matter if it was a 240sx or a 180sx

Back on topic, I wish him a speedy recovery. Has any one had a chance to find a picture of the carnange on the internet?

[jdmakkord]

The same kid was egging a buddy of mine on to race him with his 350z last week. When refused, he mean mugged, then took off tearing down that same road.

[HeckelZ]

I know this guy, I worked with him, He is Crutical condition
My prayers are with him. He only had the car for maybe two weeks, he wasnt always the most responsible guy but he diffentally doesnt deserve this. I hope he recovers quickly

[Redlyne_mr2]

I hope that he is ok, he is a contributing member to this forum, no one else was involved in the crash, all the owness is on him so let's give him a break and hope that XylathaneGTR has a quick and speedy recovery. :thumbsup:

[Crasian]

Ok so just to clarify... he was speeding for sure... what speed i'm not possiive, but either way too fast for the conditions.
It was not raining at the time, but the roads were still very very wet.
I pulled over as soon as i saw it happen... took me a couple seconds too realize that he had hit the pole since the impact turned the light off and i was too far to see the actual impact.
Me and another couple of ppl pulled over and called 911 immediately.
When the police arrived they only took a statement from me because i saw and remembered the whole thing. The girl taht had seen it too was probably told to go home since she was so freaked out...
And i did see him before the firetruck came... but i dont wanna discuss it.

Anyways... my prayers are with him and his family, hope he makes it out alive and hope that this is a very tough lesson learned to alot us.

[dymz999]

Did he hit the pole head on or did his car fishtail or anything?

[Z24_3.1]

i hope hes alright man feel bad for the car but who cares hopes hes fine

[Seanith]

Hopefully hes ok. That was a very nice car its a shame.

[Crasian]

fish tailed, turned 180 degrees and impacted the pole with the side of the car... basically the door.

[Kouki R32]

Hopes he gets full recovery. And condolences to his family:(

[Z24_3.1]

anyone know anything about him what hospital how hes doin anyhthing? i feel bad man

[illeagle]

going fast or not, slow car or fast.. shit happens... I hope he recovers 100%...

i could only imagine how he's gonna feel when he gets back on here and reads all the negetive reply's just as a shit topping on his wonderful year.

[7thgenvic]

i just heard what happened, that is a shitty deal and no one deserves that by any means, we have all drove a little to fast at some times or been irrisposible, but by any means, my prayers are with dirty D,(nick name) and his entire family, my prayers go out to the rest of the urban crew, and his friends, i will see ya soon, be strong man. --Nick--

[mr.loco]

first id like to thank God that hes alive and pray he gets better

some peopke are more fortunet than others for example my buddy yoshi hes a cool kid a little cocky and sht but anyways he waited 3 months to get his car from japan and after he goit it he went and bought new rims and tires...two days later......
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/9/web/789000-789999/789580_12_full.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/91latintegra/teg3.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y184/91latintegra/teg4.jpg

amazing he walked away with no injuries.....
the same thing happened to me when i got my first car (crx) i crashed 3 times but i learned my lesson and i drive more carefull so kids please dont think this cant happen to you becuase i know there are alot of teens on this site just be careful

thanks

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by Nissanaddict
and that 240s have a 5 star safety rating.

yeh right? i think the doors are way too light to recieve a 5 star crash rating, ive owned 2 240s and i remember having a rough enough time keeping control of my first car when sliding on ice then onto pavement, the kickback of grip is scary as fµk! almost unpredictably dangerous if you ask me, rwd (not to mention forced induction) in a uncontrollable environment (anything other than a parking lot, empty 90deg corner)such as a wet road is just trouble.

Get well soon sil80 driver! thoughts and prayers are with you.

ps: CDN winters are your best learning time in rwd IMO, you really learn the characteristics of your car's handling capabilities and how to predict and learn your car's form of oversteer.

nonetheless, all you kids out there with quick cars, theres a time to goof off and a time to be mature and use some common sense and basic physics laws..

wet roads + cars = ...well you know

[dymz999]

I would highly recommend that any 240 driver go to a couple of drift events or track events. They help you learn a lot about your car. The difference between FWD and RWD in the performance world is so drastically different its not even funny. this is also why i recommend people take their time before just jumping to some high end engine. Starting off with a stock 240 lets you seriously learn more about the car.

Kind of reminds me of seeing Danny Heatley's ferrari. When I saw the car this afternoon honestly he could have been doing 120+ in an 80 zone. It would explain why the car fish tailed. It is UBER easy to make a SR powered 240 fishtail if you are boosting it past 5,000 rpm.

Hopefully he makes it through all this okay. By the sounds of it though he'll be hospitalized for a long long time to come.

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by Crasian


:werd: wake up call for me, i must admit i speed up that hill once in a while and the only reason i didn't is because all the rain and i know taht my tires are total crap
I think that when us young guys get our first cars, we feel so invincible, but after seeing what happened to him and seeing his car completely totalled and wrapped around a damn pole in less than a second... a serious wake up call. Hope other learn too before its too late.

it looks like he'll recover from this.
who cares what happened or how it happened, it kind of gets irrelevant.

what really matters is that HE LEARNS FROM THIS and will be more capable of preventing such things from occuring again.

[schurchill39]

Originally posted by Skyline_Addict


it looks like he'll recover from this.
who cares what happened or how it happened, it kind of gets irrelevant.

what really matters is that HE LEARNS FROM THIS and will be more capable of preventing such things from occuring again.

Lots of us obviously do care about what and how thats why we ask. WE know our questions wont change anything but its always good to know.

[Aleks]

Everyone makes mistakes. Wishing this kid a speedy recovery. cars can be replaced, human lives cant...