UCP supporters why you so silent?

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Originally Posted by davidI

This statement just reinforces the biggest stress/time consumer for teachers: arrogant parents who think they know it all.

I'm guessing you're an engineer? They seem to be the worst for thinking they know how to do the jobs of everyone around them in my experience.

I agree with a lot of what you post but your opinion here reeks of ignorance.

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Everyone here works a job that probably anyone can do and is overpaid to do it. But no one will admit it.

I really have no issues with teacher pay because A) it really isn't that much and B) who the hell wants to be a teacher?

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Originally Posted by vengie

Slight devils advocate to all of this.
My wife is a teacher, they do work hard, and put up with an INSANE amount of mental stress by teaching your “special little angels”. That said, there are some shitty teachers who take advantage of the system. But these people will always exist if the system enables them to act this way.
My wife teaches in the NE, majority ESL students in her class (refugees included). The majority of her students don’t have a stable home, nor are they clothed or fed properly. As such they have major behaviour problems and because of that are far behind their grade level from an educational standpoint.
Personally, you couldn’t pay me enough to do her job. The time off is well earned in my eyes, and I’m private sector oilfield services working just as much (if not more in some cases) than the rest of you.

All I’m saying is have some empathy, it’s fucked up what some teachers themselves deal with on the day to day.

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my son has a teacher that closes her eyes when she teaches or turns her back to the students when talking.

How the hell does she keep her job? I'd put this in one of the weirdest of stories for shitty teachers.

I do enjoy how this thread has shifted from CBE overhead waste in management to teachers are lazy fucks

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Originally Posted by vengie

Perhaps teachers work harder than your pre-conceived notion of them?

Edit: not to mention Beyond is full of relatively high achievers, most wont settle for a partner who doesn’t accentuate that. Meaning they are also likely a high achiever in their own right.

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I don’t think I ever stated my view on how hard they work but if you must know, I actually do think they work very hard and are professionals who deserve a good salary. I value them even more now that I have kids... I want highly qualified, well-compensated people teaching my kids.

It was just an interesting observation

I do not. :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::goflames:

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Originally Posted by 04Terminator

Across Alberta, the median after-tax income was $70,200 in 2016.

So there is that.

You are still dishonestly overstating the availability and number of these positions. They are a minority. Even learning leaders, which only pays about $2200 extra a year is a roughly 1 in 8 teacher job, depending on school budget, and is based on skill and seniority. I chose AP and Principal because they are the two allowances available to ALL schools, therefore most common. The rest are discretionary.

Now, go back to google, and do some more superficial research to support your dishonesty.

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So at the lowest grid level, after 5 years, teachers are making higher than median at roughly 27 years old in high paying Alberta. Got it. Rest of Canada still hates us all here.

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Originally Posted by 04Terminator

Teacher and Nurse hate is profound here. Amazing. Been an oil and gas guy my whole life, chose it out of easy money, but I can't think of 2 more selfless jobs, I wish I could be that guy to devote that much, for so little, and then be spit on.

"Basic bitch of a teacher". I still can't believe it.

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Where did anyone hate teachers and nurses? You're equating cutting funding to hating them because CBE and AHS decided the first thing to do is to announce killing front line workers. They're playing you like a puppet and you're eating it up.

And yes, there are a lot of basic bitch of a teacher out there. I'm just not friends with any of them. There are examples here that people have pointed out teachers taking advantage of the system.

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Originally Posted by 04Terminator

I'm sure there are slackers, but they are as rare as Rage's $140k a year teachers. :rofl: Your dishonesty is sickening.

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I never said anything about $140k teachers, I just said it's possible to crack 6 figures (which starts at $100k).

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Originally Posted by sabad66

I don’t think I ever stated my view on how hard they work but if you must know, I actually do think they work very hard and are professionals who deserve a good salary. I value them even more now that I have kids... I want highly qualified, well-compensated people teaching my kids.

It was just an interesting observation

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:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Buster

See? You have no idea what I do but know a lot about what teachers do. Exactly my point.

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What?

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Originally Posted by lasimmon

Everyone here works a job that probably anyone can do and is overpaid to do it. But no one will admit it.

I really have no issues with teacher pay because A) it really isn't that much and B) who the hell wants to be a teacher?

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I worked private for 15 years and with the bonuses and stock options I was massively overpaid. Fortunately I didn't squander any of that gravy as I always felt it was too good to last forever. When I got laid off and handed another suitcase full of money the only job I could get was in public, exact same role with a 20% salary reduction. After 5 years here I'm finally making a higher salary than I was when I was laid off. Even without bonuses and stock options I feel really lucky to make what I am where I am now and would have no problem with a wage reduction. After experiencing both sides of the fence I know there are hard workers that add value to our economy and quality of life on both sides as well as many spoiled slackers. You can absolutely be a shitty worker in large private companies if you're part of the right 'boys clubs', I saw it happen plenty. There are shit streaks and superstars in all walks of life.

And to points A) and B) Agreed, Agreed!

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Originally Posted by Buster

I think it's an exposure, point of reference thing.

I'm sure most teachers would be blown away job shadowing a person in the private sector with high responsibility high stress jobs.
They just don't have a perspective on what people are actually doing out there.
Especially in July.

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Honestly if it is as easy as you say, with your background, you could get on teaching at a HS for one of those cushy 100k a year jobs.

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Originally Posted by killramos

Haha a friend of my wifes takes at least 2 weeks of sick days off a year ( we know for a fact because my wife usually subs for her ), she recently took 2 months off mental health leave because she was sad about giving her dog up for adoption. Fully paid. She was supposed to go back to work next week but the CBE thought it was so close to Christmas she should just take the rest of December off.

One time she had my wife sub for her only to show up at our place for a party that evening.

If teaching is such an obviously under appreciated underpaid overworked grind then why does UofC (just one degree granting institution in this province) have enough interest that they issue 13% of their degrees annually in education. Almost 1000 a year. More than engineering.

Hint. Because in Alberta it’s a god damn lifetime gravy train of a job for the mediocre.

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How is this different than the private sector? We have people run to HR and are on short term all the time. I can't imagine the statistics but this isn't just a public service issue. We have people off on 'medical' all the time. You cant fire someone on medical if a doctor signs off on it.

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Originally Posted by pheoxs

Fucking 100% This.

Seriously, these teachers need to stop being little bitches and wake up to real work. They have no clue what its like to argue with people on Beyond all morning over pointless topics that no one will change their beliefs. They act like trying to teach the lesson while also keeping kids in line, not being able to take a bathroom break, and having 5 minutes between classes to switch everything over for the next lesson is harder than arguing on the internet.

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Bathroom break, what shit are you talking about. My wife had to give up coffee. (seriously). Yeah my wife gives us all the work / running around to do, call insurance, call Telus, call banks, because I can sneak that stuff into a week. She never can.

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Originally Posted by Buster

Good teachers are the victims of the teachers Union as much as the students

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Man what grade where you when a teacher hurt you? They've probably forgotten about it, you should too.

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Originally Posted by davidI

What?

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Put another way:. You have no evidence that my opinion is based on ignorance. What teachers do is not particularly obscure. And not all assumptions are based on lack of information.

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Originally Posted by Buster

Put another way:. You have no evidence that my opinion is based on ignorance. What teachers do is not particularly obscure. And not all assumptions are based on lack of information.

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Feel free to clarify your below response as it is the evidence that I based my opinion you are ignorant upon.

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Originally Posted by davidI

What's the basis of this statement? i.e. how do you know far more?

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Originally Posted by Buster

That's always the case when someone is doing work for you. It's part of my role to understand how the schools work. It's not part of a teachers job to know what their customers do.

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How do the schools work since it is your "role" to understand them?

What is it that you think teachers do exactly, based on your understanding?

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Originally Posted by Buster

Okay, I'll play.

If teachers have the work ethic of a 1%er, the passion of a performing artist, and the dedication of a senior law partner, then why don't they bring their talents to the private sector? The biggest barrier to $$$ in the private sector is sacrifice, dedication, and smarts. If teachers have all of these qualities, why are they settling for low compensation, high stress and long work hours. Why do they need one of the country's most powerful unions defending their interests? The opposite would be true - teacher compensation would be rising as they get picked off into fatcat corporate jobs?

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You ever think that maybe they do what they do cause they enjoy teaching and want to make a difference? People don't always pick careers on financial compensation alone otherwise the whole world would be beyond ballers.

This went grossly sideways, although maybe that was predictable. Makes me wish, as a UCP supporter, I had stayed silent in my approval of the current UCP government funding policies.

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Originally Posted by kobe tai

You ever think that maybe they do what they do cause they enjoy teaching and want to make a difference? People don't always pick careers on financial compensation alone otherwise the whole world would be beyond ballers.

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Very anecdotal evidence, but yea, those teachers are rare.

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Originally Posted by ExtraSlow

This went grossly sideways, although maybe that was predictable. Makes me wish, as a UCP supporter, I had stayed silent in my approval of the current UCP government funding policies.

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Baited haha.

Back on track where do we go from here? Assuming that the UCP is able to get the budget balanced by 2023 (a big if) is the plan moving forward to let Albertans live with underfunded healthcare/education and have the population carry the burden with higher taxation? Will the pipelines save the province?

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Originally Posted by kobe tai

Back on track where do we go from here? Assuming that the UCP is able to get the budget balanced by 2023 (a big if) is the plan moving forward to let Albertans live with underfunded healthcare/education and have the population carry the burden with higher taxation?

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Or better yet, let’s attract business back to Alberta and get our economy moving again.

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Originally Posted by vengie

Or better yet, let’s attract business back to Alberta and get our economy moving again.

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I understand that but UCP seems to be confused in this as they are on one hand trying to attract by lowering the tax rate but on other hand killing the incentives that are in place in order to attract diversification of industry. And cuts to education are counter productive to diversification as well.

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Originally Posted by rage2

Baited haha.

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I was baited by a master.