Hey all. My wife's parents refuse to create a will. Essentially they are saying you figure it out. Not sure what they may have at the end, but it could be a 100+ acre farm in Southern Ontario. What can be done preemptively if the parents don't want to help with their eventual passing. There are 3 adult children. 2 don't get along at all. Any internet guidance to provide?
Wow, no advice, but this sounds difficult. The farm will need to be sold, and lawyers will make the money. that's my prediction.
I don't think anything can be done proactively unless you guys do up the Will on their behalf and have them sign? Even then...because the Will wasn't done by them, I expect it will be contested.
These links will give you some info on what happens and the process:
https://www.ontario.ca/page/administering-estates
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90s26
All I know is it will be a real nightmare.
Not much you can do until they are mentally incompetent
If all the kids helped draft one, then signed something saying it's okay, then the parents signed, after discussion with their own lawyer, then that's good.
Otherwise, best thing you can do is have parents sell or give away as much property as possible as soon as possible. The smaller the estate, the smaller the problems.
Beat advice? Walk the fuck away… Even with a will families can be incredibly dickish when money is involved, and if they already don’t get along, your are in for a miserable experience. Unless this is something that will hugely change your life and she is willing to deal with all the headaches and stress, just walk the fuck away. It is what we did on my wife’s side of the family and we have zero regrets. Everyone else can be assholes and we just carried on with our lives.
Have you had a discussion on what the repercussions are of being intestate with them? Most people just don’t know and need to be educated. Without a will they have no control over what happens with their estate, and if the family does not get along then it will most likely end up in litigation and the legal cost alone on that can change their minds. I’ve seen way too many of these, they never end well.
I'm dealing with an estate right now and what a freaking nightmare even with a will and a POA that was in place long before anything happened.
Hospitals don't follow POA directives at all. Banks are the worst to deal with. Took 6 + weeks for a bank to provide access but then did it all wrong.
If I ever get asked to be an executor or POA I will pass based on how stupid family becomes after they find out their not the one in charge.
Your parents are doing everyone a disservice by letting everyone battle things out. Ask them if they prefer everything they own to go to lawyers over the family. I can't imagine too many parents wanting that. Setnyour expectations low so when things go sideways your not expecting much of anything down the road.
Both parents of my wife cost me money, so consider yourself lucky.
Sorry to hear this OP. I know the feeling. Ive dealt with clients who's parents did nothing. Its a nightmare. Banks will seek to protect themselves first.
Even with a Will and things done by the book. It took one of my client almost a year for the bank to get its head out its arse.
Two things I would add.
Try and get someone to talk to the parents of their level. A relative, a member of the church/temple/ community association a close friend etc. That sometimes works. Thats a slow process. BUT..Once the idea gets planted in the head, sometimes they partially come around to it.
If that fails. If you can make a mental note and list the assets and any known investments of the parents. Then a sub list what the paperwork for that asset is. Know where the parents bank, what kinds of credit cards they have etc. Who they have utilities with. Bank and credit card statements can give a audit trail. It won't give your wife authority. But it might make life a hell of a lot easier when dealing with the intestacy after. She will have some sort of list to work on. (I had one client who's husband had died but did not detail where the rest of his accounts were. The poor woman was going bank to bank trying to find the rest of the money. But naturally we could not tell her).
Go to your nearest bank and ask for a checklist of what to do when a person passes. TD has one, ask the advisor to look it up on the B-Web. Its a printout check list we used to give to clients.
After they have passed, you could also look into pulling the parents credit report under 'Permissible purpose' (consult a lawyer first). This may give a audit trail of any outstanding debits/assets. After the parents have passed, try and get bank statements when you are legally able to do so. This will give a audit trail to see if anyone has accessed their accounts while they were sick prior to passing or after they have died.
Other than that, the estate will be passed to a intestacy to divide the assets. Without any estate planning the CRA and lawyers will be the ones the will benefit the most. This can drag on for a couple of years.
On a side note. Technically speaking. You can get a life policy on her parents(your wife being the policy owner) and list yourselves as a beneficially. This is usually done as a wealth preservation tool for taxes. If your wife is able to work out how much tax is to be paid on the estate. The life policy can offset that and could be a lot cheaper as the payout from the life policy is tax free and free from anyone claiming that (including the CRA, banks etc).
Wife’s dad’s family had a condo in Sidney BC.
Nana passed a while ago, papa lived a few years longer, he passed. Wife’s dad was the executor. The husband of one of the kids wanted to sell it immediately. Everybody else wanted to hold onto it. They even offered to buy out his portion. He refused because he’s a moron. They sold it on the open market. It’d be worth triple at least now.
They said it was a 100 acre farm... you'd really just walk away to avoid dealing with it!?:nut:Quote:
Originally Posted by tirebob
1/6 of a section doesn’t make a very big farm…
It's not a very big farm by western standards, no. In Southern Ontario that farm alone is probably worth north of $2M, but I haven't kept track of land values in the last 5 years or so back home so it may be higher or slightly lower.Quote:
Originally Posted by killramos
It will be worth something.
If you want the ordeal to be over quickly, just agree to whatever the loudest most in debt dipshit wants to do.
If you want maximum assets, then be prepared to wait for years.
Thanks for all the conversation guys. I need to tread cautiously since its the wife's family. I will talk to her about asking a family friend to try to talk some sense into them, but don't have high hopes. Hopefully have many years to get through to them.
Not sure about Ontario, but in Alberta and I guess BC wills are totally contestable. They're not at all ironclad which I find utterly hilarious.
Best advice I know is to make sure the estate is as small as possible. Sell as much property as possible and give away the proceeds before death. Give money to charity, or kids, or grandkids or whatever. Shrink that estate, then there's less to fight over.
Depending on your relationship with the in-laws, you might be able to have a pretty honest discussion with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tirebob
There's is a monster of storm brewing with the passing of the fiancé's step-grandmother. The split is going 5 ways, 4 to her dad along with his siblings (who are generally all miserable people) with a 5th chunk being split between the fiancées and her 7 siblings half of which no longer speak to her crazy vindictive dad. Thinking your advice will be the way to go though we will wait to see he $$ amount first
Edit:/ The estate is stateside so we are going to have to figure out the implications of that too.
She better be loaded to bother dealing with all that for a 2.9% share of an estate lol