Recommend a Deerfoot commuter car

Also while we are not answering the OP's question, I challenge the assertion you need awd for deerfoot. Get a ten year old FWD Honda accord and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by ExtraSlow

Also while we are not answering the OP's question, I challenge the assertion you need awd for deerfoot. Get a ten year old FWD Honda accord and be done with it.

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Haha this is beyond, surprised no one has suggested that new Bugatti SUV.

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Originally Posted by Strider

The only incremental cost would be insurance and depreciation. The gas and maintenance would theoretically be a net gain, as she would be putting the miles on a car that uses less and cheaper fuel, and requires less expensive maintenance. I figure we'll save roughly $250/year just switching from premium to regular. Dropping from 15L/100km to 10L/100km would save another $400/year.
Then there's shit like $600 for rear brakes at 35,000km, $1250 for a water pump at 60,000km.


It is a perfect car for her. We've owned it for 6 years and put on 65k km, but typically there's a steep drop in value around100k km and I probably wouldn't want to keep it much longer after that... would be nice not to worry about that for a while longer.


Golf R would be at the top of my list, but it takes premium and I can't imagine maintenance being Honda/Toyota cheap.

I'll look into Subarus a bit more. It was the first brand that came to mind for ticking the awd box, but I don't know how they depreciate or the reliability/cost of ownership.
Will also look into the Juke. It's unfortunate that they're so damn ugly.
I know with something like a CR-V, if I find the right deal I could go about a year without depreciation, and fairly slow depreciation after that... but CR-Vs just do nothing for me.

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Is your wife a pretty lead footed driver? My wife averages around 10L/100km and I will be around 12 for that car. Otherwise the $250/yr for premium seems inconsequential. We’ve done the brakes and water pump+thermostat already. The brakes were cheap (order off ECS install at indy shop) and wp+tstat were under warranty. What stung a bit was the rear LED failing requiring a new lamp assembly at several hundred, though goodwill covered some of that.

I think another factor is that going to a Juke is a huge downgrade no matter how you look at it. The X3 is actually an enjoyable car. Oh yeah, that reminds me, definitely unplug the exhaust valve solenoid! It takes two seconds make your car sound much nicer.

Heck a 20 year old accord is probably perfect.

Seeing all the drivers on Deerfoot yesterday I'd say only thing safe enough is a fucking panzer tank

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Originally Posted by Shlade

Seeing all the drivers on Deerfoot yesterday I'd say only thing safe enough is a fucking panzer tank

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A bit off topic, but I'm thinking of going fwd with studded tires next winter.... Would've faired pretty good on DF yesterday no?

Get something run regular gas ... pretty big difference lately .. (Toyota, Lexus, Honda .. etc .. ) 3 / 4 yr old Lexus RX 350 F sport (F sport with 8 speed vs normal one with 6 speed) is cheap on gas on highway with regular gas ...

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Originally Posted by Strider

The only incremental cost would be insurance and depreciation. The gas and maintenance would theoretically be a net gain, as she would be putting the miles on a car that uses less and cheaper fuel, and requires less expensive maintenance. I figure we'll save roughly $250/year just switching from premium to regular. Dropping from 15L/100km to 10L/100km would save another $400/year.
Then there's shit like $600 for rear brakes at 35,000km, $1250 for a water pump at 60,000km.

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Your wife is only doing 15L/100km because she is driving only 3K. She never ever warmed up the engine or drive over 60km/h. Once you are on highway, you are looking at close to 11-12L/100km average.

Here's the math:

Drive it for 3 years:
Current X3 worth: $19K
Future Value @ 100K: $12K:

Depreciation = $7K
Maintenance = $4K
Gas = 12l/100km at 40km*22 days*12 months = ~1300L of premium = ~$5K.

TCO = $16K for 3 years.

Drive something else for 3 years, keeping X3:
Future X3 value @ 65K: $12K
Buying a 2014 CRV EXL @ 60K: $23K
Future Value of CRV @ 90K: $15K

Depreciation: $7K (X3) + $8K (CRV)
Maintenance = $1K (for CRV, you parked X3)
Gas = 7l/100km (using the highway instead of average) at 40km*22 days*12 months = ~740L of regular = ~$2.5K
Insurance and reg for CRV, = $1K/year for 3 years = $3K

TCO = $21.5K for 3 years.

So trying to save money, you end up losing $5.5K.

Selling X3 for CRV

Same as above, take out the $7K depreciation and $3K of extra insurance registration.

TCO = $10K for 3 years. A saving of $6K vs running X3.



All car values are from CBB. Premium vs regular delta is 20cents. Using average mileage for X3 and highway mileage for CRV to put it in favor of CRV but it still doesn't work out.

IMO, whenever mileage, premium vs regular gas, comes into the decision picture, you got too much car. Downsize.

Pretty much what Xtrema said. If the goal of having the 2nd vehicle is to come out ahead because of difference in operating cost and reduced depreciation, the big problem is how much more/less do you think the X3 depreciates because of additional mileage. A higher mileage vs a lower mileage X3 of the same year is probably going to be a max of $2K different, so now you need the other vehicle to depreciate less than that. I can't fathom a 2-4 year old car that will depreciate less than 2K in 3 years. The operating cost different for a more fuel efficient vehicle is going to be minor. And don't forget extra insurance and maintenance costs of having two vehicles instead of just one. No way will you come out ahead.

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Originally Posted by CokerRat

A higher mileage vs a lower mileage X3 of the same year is probably going to be a max of $2K different, so now you need the other vehicle to depreciate less than that.

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According to CBB, that 35K difference is about $400. May be it worth more in private sale.

But it doesn't really matter. I can understand the potential repair bill as it get close to 10yr old and 100k for a German car could be high. But that's the more reason to ditch it.

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Originally Posted by Xtrema

Your wife is only doing 15L/100km because she is driving only 3K. She never ever warmed up the engine or drive over 60km/h. Once you are on highway, you are looking at close to 11-12L/100km average.
Here's the math:

Drive it for 3 years:
Current X3 worth: $19K
Future Value @ 100K: $12K:

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True about the mileage. I find in the summer we're consistently around 12L/100km and winter is around 17L/100km, but that's definitely a reflection of the short commutes in downtown traffic. In the few times I've driven Deerfoot during rush hour, it was a lot of stop and go, so I wasn't expecting mileage to get any better.

$19k? Ouch! lol. On Autotrader and Kijiji, I see values more like $30-$32k for current worth at 65k km, $27k for similar but over 100k km. $5k difference because of high mileage. I appreciate that the gap will narrow as years go on, but either way, I disagree with the depreciated value for the X3 being the same regardless of 65k or 100k km.

If I pick up something like a Juke for $15k, then hopefully much less than $8k depreciation in 3 years.

Sounds like the smart money is on miling up the X3.

Without going full Mar on this thread... One other consideration is that we're down to a one car family. Savings on the occasional car2go and uber would also offset some of the fixed cost of a second car.


Edit: looked into the Juke a bit... sounds like Premium is recommended?

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Originally Posted by ExtraSlow

Also while we are not answering the OP's question, I challenge the assertion you need awd for deerfoot. Get a ten year old FWD Honda accord and be done with it.

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Originally Posted by ExtraSlow

Heck a 20 year old accord is probably perfect.

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Obviously awd is not "needed", as the majority of cars on the road don't have it... but it's nice to have. I've been stuck in parking spots with fwd and rwd, but never with awd. If I can make it fit within the parameters of low tco, then why not?

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Originally Posted by Strider

$19k? Ouch! lol. On Autotrader and Kijiji, I see values more like $30-$32k for current worth at 65k km, $27k for similar but over 100k km. $5k difference because of high mileage. I appreciate that the gap will narrow as years go on, but either way, I disagree with the depreciated value for the X3 being the same regardless of 65k or 100k km.

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Again, that's why I'm doing deprecation of trade in value for TCO then actual worth. And even if your $5K mileage differential holds true, you are not any better then where you started. It's just that you have 2 cars instead of 1.

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Originally Posted by Xtrema

Again, that's why I'm doing deprecation of trade in value for TCO then actual worth. And even if you $5K mileage differential holds true, you are not any better then where you started. It's just that you have 2 cars instead of 1.

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.... so if all else is equal, and he's no better than where he started, but he has 2 cars instead of 1... then he is actually better off than he started, isn't he? haha.

If costs were equal, I'd certainly prefer to have 2 cars over 1. :dunno:

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Originally Posted by Strider

One other consideration is that we're down to a one car family. Savings on the occasional car2go and uber would also offset some of the fixed cost of a second car.

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Ah, this does change things quite a bit. If it's a second vehicle in a house with two drivers that's very different than a third vehicle. Obviously you dont want to go "full beater" for a second car. And you have more reasons for buying it than you mentioned.

One consideration is that no matter what you get yiur wife will probably end up driving whichever one she is most comfortable and happy in no matter the kms. That's the typical husband and wife dynamic I see. So overall, now we're talking about getting you a car.

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Originally Posted by cjblair

.... so if all else is equal, and he's no better than where he started, but he has 2 cars instead of 1... then he is actually better off than he started, isn't he? haha.

If costs were equal, I'd certainly prefer to have 2 cars over 1. :dunno:

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In his case, it would be 3 cars and 2 drivers. He also consider going from 2 to 1 car. So he is cost sensitive.

Unless you have a McLaren F1, everything else will depreciate. And having something sitting and depreciate and give you no to little joy isn't very financially responsible.

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Originally Posted by Shlade

Seeing all the drivers on Deerfoot yesterday I'd say only thing safe enough is a fucking panzer tank

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^This

On to your question, anything that does not have a relatively flat windshield profile such as a GTI. My brother has gone through 2 windshields in 1 year.

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Originally Posted by Strider

True about the mileage. I find in the summer we're consistently around 12L/100km and winter is around 17L/100km, but that's definitely a reflection of the short commutes in downtown traffic. In the few times I've driven Deerfoot during rush hour, it was a lot of stop and go, so I wasn't expecting mileage to get any better.

$19k? Ouch! lol. On Autotrader and Kijiji, I see values more like $30-$32k for current worth at 65k km, $27k for similar but over 100k km. $5k difference because of high mileage. I appreciate that the gap will narrow as years go on, but either way, I disagree with the depreciated value for the X3 being the same regardless of 65k or 100k km.

If I pick up something like a Juke for $15k, then hopefully much less than $8k depreciation in 3 years.

Sounds like the smart money is on miling up the X3.

Without going full Mar on this thread... One other consideration is that we're down to a one car family. Savings on the occasional car2go and uber would also offset some of the fixed cost of a second car.


Edit: looked into the Juke a bit... sounds like Premium is recommended?

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Juke is recommended not required.... My wife uses the cheapest gas she can find, often Superstore gas. If say she gets roughly 10-11/per 100km

Xtrema pretty much killed it here. Just the other day we took my wife's car around for the day - me driving all day in sport mode, minus 18 temps, mix of city and highway, and I averaged 11.8L/100km. Highly efficient for a 300+ hp AWD SUV lugging a whole family and gear.

I honestly don't understand how you are even considering a Juke though. It is worse in every metric. You're comparing a luxury mid-sized high HP SUV to a compact econobox. It's not even cheap in terms of TCO; Nissans are bullshit for depreciation, especially junky little ones. Am I missing something here??

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Originally Posted by GTS Jeff

Xtrema pretty much killed it here. Just the other day we took my wife's car around for the day - me driving all day in sport mode, minus 18 temps, mix of city and highway, and I averaged 11.8L/100km. Highly efficient for a 300+ hp AWD SUV lugging a whole family and gear.

I honestly don't understand how you are even considering a Juke though. It is worse in every metric. You're comparing a luxury mid-sized high HP SUV to a compact econobox. It's not even cheap in terms of TCO; Nissans are bullshit for depreciation, especially junky little ones. Am I missing something here??

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Can't argue with you there about depreciation...but I will say this, Nissan Jukes are highly sought after by women, trust me, they're right up there with Beetles. I bought my wife a 2013 SL AWD in white with 74,000km less than a year ago for $14,250...I'm hoping it won't take too much a hit when it comes time to sell. She loves it and white seems to be the most popular color. They are "cute", have AWD, have the ground clearance, and most important of all, are SMALL so they're easy to park! This thing is literally shorter than the Beetle she had before. And when you're in the driver's seat, it's super easy to park because women like seeing the "front" of the car, and the front on the Juke is easily seen from the driver's seat because of those frog lights that sit on top.

Remember, this car is for the OP's wife. Not a car enthusiast.

Would I personally want a Juke? I've thought about it but the more I drive that thing the more I can't stand the lack of real guts (gutless engine mated to a gutless turbo, I'll stick to the 3.7 V6s in my 370z and G37x) and I hate that f'n CVT.