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Makes me sad there hasn't been a thread started from beginning of the season, especially considering the storylines that we've had this year with a tight MVP race (and the heavy discussion around what's more important), the struggles of the Cavs, how KD has integrated into the Dubs, etc.
With 2 or 3 games left in the regular season, let's talk about the big stories. Starting with:
Where do you stand on the MVP race?
Harden
Westbrook
Lebron
Kawhi
etc.
... and why?
Westbrook's story has been incredible. IMO has less support than Harden, making crazy clutch plays.
I think in any other year, Westbrook gets the MVP. But when you have another player in Harden who is putting up near identical numbers on a team that is 3rd in the ultra-competitive West and ultimately 3rd best record in the league, it should go to the player with the better record.Quote:
Originally posted by GenerationX
Westbrook's story has been incredible. IMO has less support than Harden, making crazy clutch plays.
It's the same debate as last year's Curry or Harden debate. Although Curry's numbers weren't as great overall, Curry was putting up insane numbers while playing a fraction of the Harden's minutes on a team that was on a record-breaking pace. In that sense, the MVP should go to the best player on the best team.
It's very sad we didn't have a thread this year, I thought about making one at the start of the season but it's always so slow haha. No one around here seems to like ball that much.
As far as the MVP race goes, I don't really think you could make a wrong choice with Westbrook, Harden, James or Leonard. I'm personally leaning towards Westbrook because numbers and carrying OKC into the playoffs. I'm not sure many thought OKC would land where they did this year with losing Durrant.
I see both sides, best player on the best team or best player on a playoff team. I side with Westbrook because I feel like Harden has a better team to play with. Really LeBron could be MVP because he's arguably more Important to the Cavs than Westbrook is to OKC. Leonard won't win because he's still "underrated".
Can't wait for playoffs to start.
Not looking forward to next year because of Lavar Ball. :banghead:
I've never really been a fan of that argument because it's essentially penalizing a good player for being on a good team. I think it's harder to be the alpha of a team of alphas.Quote:
Originally posted by bruceod
I see both sides, best player on the best team or best player on a playoff team. I side with Westbrook because I feel like Harden has a better team to play with. Really LeBron could be MVP because he's arguably more Important to the Cavs than Westbrook is to OKC. Leonard won't win because he's still "underrated".
Also, we shouldn't forget that Harden was putting up sick numbers last year and dragged a pretty bad Rockets team into 8th place last year.
Assuming I ever had a vote, I would vote for Westbrook if OKC finished in 4th or better for home-court advantage.
Conversely, if team record is a major factor, then Lebron deserves major consideration, as he's literally carried a bad Cavs team to first place in the East - and I say that as a staunch Lebron hater.
I've never really been a fan of that argument because it's essentially penalizing a good player for being on a good team. I think it's harder to be the alpha of a team of alphas.
There's usually a clear alpha though. This year could of been different with GSW but Durrant went down. In all reality it's Curry's team though. Previous OKC years it was Durrants team. In Miami with the big 3 it was in theory Wade's team but everyone knows LeBron was alpha.
Also, we shouldn't forget that Harden was putting up sick numbers last year and dragged a pretty bad Rockets team into 8th place last year.
A team that preformed bad but should have been much better.
Assuming I ever had a vote, I would vote for Westbrook if OKC finished in 4th or better for home-court advantage.
I see your point, I lean also Westbrook's way because of the triple double average and new record too. Pretty crazy to do for a season.
Conversely, if team record is a major factor, then Lebron deserves major consideration, as he's literally carried a bad Cavs team to first place in the East - and I say that as a staunch Lebron hater.
I honestly think LeBron should win MVP. I do like him but I'm not a bandwagon fan of his. I think he's the most important player to his team in the league. He won't get the votes just because what he's does is average for him and expected.
Either way, any of those 4 guys are very deserving of the award.
Such little interest in a really great season... This saddens me.
P.S. Burn Cavs Burn.
Westbrook hands down deserves MVP. The odds were against OKC once pussy as durant left. Westbrook has carried his team into the playoffs and broken the triple double record.
Hardens success can be attributed to the coaching change but I feel he has more decent pieces around him. Here is my order of who should win MVP:
Westbrook
Leonard
Harden.
The counter to that is that Adams and Kanter are clearly just boxing out their guys and letting Westbrook get the rebounds, so a small case could be made that there's some stat stuffing going on. But having said that, a 30-point triple-double is insane, even with a bit of padding.Quote:
Originally posted by bruceod
I see your point, I lean also Westbrook's way because of the triple double average and new record too. Pretty crazy to do for a season.
First round predictions anyone?
I think the Bulls will upset the Celtics in the first round.
From an upset potential standpoint (4-5 doesn't count), I think Celtics-Bulls has the best potential for upset. Rockets-Thunder could be an upset too, but I handicap it because it's a 3-6 matchup.Quote:
Originally posted by jabjab
I think the Bulls will upset the Celtics in the first round.
I don't think the Bulls will win though. Celtics have too many good pieces, and if the game is actually close, Stevens is too good at drawing up plays.
But speaking of Rockets-Thunder, that's going to be a fun series.
My list of top 5 MVPs in order are: Westbrook, Harden, Thomas, James, Giannis
- Westbrook is the clear MVP even though his team helped him grab easy rebounds. He did something this season only 1 other player ever has. Anyone discounting this doesn't watch or know basketball.
- Harden is a clear second. He has had one of the best statistical seasons in the modern era and lead his team to 3rd best record.
- Thomas was a beast the entire season and led his team to the best record in the East. You can't argue with how good he played. Without him the Celtics don't finish nearly as strong.
- James is James...he will likely make it to the finals again.
- Giannis had an amazing season and led a pretty brutal roster to a playoff spot. He didn't have much support and had ridiculous stats (see steals and blks).
- Leonard is overrated. I don't know why fans keep saying he's underrated. Every single analyst drools over him and he wasn't even a top 5 real or fantasy player this year.
Kawhi's averaging over 25 ppg (9th)Quote:
Originally posted by Type_S1
- Leonard is overrated. I don't know why fans keep saying he's underrated. Every single analyst drools over him and he wasn't even a top 5 real or fantasy player this year.
1.8 spg (8th).
Pretty decent stats for someone who's 40th in minutes.
And you think that puts him in conversation to be the MVP? His points per only land him in 7th...
25+ points per game while often guarding the opposing team's best 1-4 on the team with the best defensive rating in the league, leading to the 2nd best record in the league. I think he deserves to be mentioned.Quote:
Originally posted by Type_S1
And you think that puts him in conversation to be the MVP? His points per only land him in 7th...
9th in defensive rating (best defensive rating in the league)
9th in defensive win shares
Tied with Russ in steals
I guess we can agree to disagree. The 5 guys I mentioned I feel are way more deserving. Is there a reason you think he should fall into the top 5 over those guys?
I don't disagree with most of your list, but I'd add Kawhi.Quote:
Originally posted by Type_S1
I guess we can agree to disagree. The 5 guys I mentioned I feel are way more deserving. Is there a reason you think he should fall into the top 5 over those guys?
Harden, Lebron, Kawhi, Westbrook and Thomas.
As I said earlier, I think winning is an important factor in MVP consideration, so I think the MVP should at least have home-court in the playoffs - eliminating Westbrook and Thomas. Don't get me wrong, I think Westbrook is crushing it this year, but I think to discount Harden because he has better pieces around him is the same as being a good player on a bad team (like Russ). Thomas is a long shot, and I wouldn't be surprised if Curry is in the top 5 vote for MVP. Thomas has averaged more PPG, but Curry averages more steals, rebounds and assists.
Realistically, it's a 3-person race for MVP between Harden, Westbrook and Lebron. Kawhi puts up good numbers, but he suffers from playing in a team/system/franchise that doesn't truly showcase his abilities, nor are there stats that truly and objectively measure his contributions on the defensive end. Arguably, that hurts Kawhi, but could help guys like Harden and Westbrook who aren't known for their defense.
I wouldn't be angry with either Harden or Lebron winning. With winning being the biggest factor in my criteria, Lebron would deserve to win. He's carrying an old and bickering Cavs team (though I would argue that is his own doing).
Harden's numbers are ridiculous and very similar to Russ' except his team has the 3rd best record in the league. That's why I think Harden should win it.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Bang on so far. Good call.Quote:
Originally posted by jabjab
I think the Bulls will upset the Celtics in the first round.
Raps were a waste of time last night, and Cavs made a crazy comeback. Both unfortunate events. :cry:
Bucks are a scary team and a scary team for years to come because of their collective length. Middleton and the Greek are amazing.
I won't be surprised if the raps lose this series.
I wonder if Lance actually chirped LeBron at half, looked like he did from the highlights. :rofl:
Memphis with a big win. Man, VC is still playing well @ 40. Be nice to see that series be more than a walk in the park for the Spurs.
Quote:
Originally posted by Type_S1
- Westbrook is the clear MVP even though his team helped him grab easy rebounds. He did something this season only 1 other player ever has. Anyone discounting this doesn't watch or know basketball.
- Leonard is overrated. I don't know why fans keep saying he's underrated. Every single analyst drools over him and he wasn't even a top 5 real or fantasy player this year.
I find it very interesting that you make a statement that if you don't give it to Westbrook that someone doesn't watch or know basketball. But then you make a statement disregarding Leonard as a top 5 while stating fantasy stats.
I would say anyone who watches/knows basketball is aware that Leonard is arguably/probably the 2nd best player in the league (behind LBJ who I can't stand). The guy was the 15/16 DPOY, and will finish top 3 in votes for 2017. Just based upon his defensive talents alone would put him around top 5. And then add in his offence...Up until the last month when he had a few off games he was shooting .500/.400/.900 which is an amazing line.
The guy also only averaged 1.6 fouls/game and 2.08 turnovers.
His overall efficiency and contributions to the Spurs are incredible.
He 9th in Pts/Game while playing 3-4minutes less than AD/Harden/LBJ/Lillard etc...
Those are just some of the reasons that analysts drool over him. Add in his team first attitude and everything else he brings, no brainer. I'm sure if you asked all the GMs/Coaches out there if they could pick one player in the league to start a team around for the next 10 seasons he would be in the top (LBJ is too old for this hypothetical).