Would you buy a condo right now?

Just a generic question for the Beyonders here. Are real estate prices looking to take a bigger tumble soon and should prospective buyers look at holding off for now?

We've been looking at a condo unit in the NW Sage Hill area which is going for about 223k. We were looking at making an offer soon but uncertain about the implications that COVID-19 is going to have on the market price.

Given that COVID isn't going to blow over anytime soon, and the fact that there are a myriad of new builds in the area, along with blows to employment in the province, we're thinking of potentially holding off on an offer.

Any thoughts or insights?

Curious about this general topic. I was planning on listing a property May 1st as well.

I wouldn’t. I actually want to get out of mine but I’m not going to unless I can see breaking even on purchase price. Condo insurance has been hiked crazy amounts, my personal insurance went up but so did the condo fees to cover the ~300% insurance raise. I would avoid condos all together if you can...

The condo market in Alberta is a train wreck right now... builders are still flooding the market with both condo and rental properties. I wouldn't touch it with a 50 foot pole, only holding onto my condo and renting it out because I am still underwater. I would suggest renting and saving up to buy something detached instead.

I'd definitely wait it out. Perhaps even look at the city assessed value and then see how the prices (esp. in the fall/winter 2021) start trending down, fast.

With the helicopter cash that the AB and fed government has done is delay the inevitable - collapse of the Calgary/AB housing market.

Once the OG jobs are gone, no deferral and EI will help.

Sage hill...:barf: Condo...:barf: do NOT do that at any stage in the business cycle. There's some simple advice for ya.

To the other condo owners here who are waiting for break even...it's tough to do but like any other investment the wise thing to do is to simply walk away. Makes no sense having equity tied up in a bad investment. Home and condo prices today are still near the top of the cycle.

It's a tough question for sure. Buying detached is out of the question; it's for my mother once my parents' house is sold and they go their own ways.

I should probably correct myself, the condo is in Kincora along Shaganappi across from the Walmart; I don't know why I said Sage Hill :rofl:

The builders are literally the only one in the area that uses underfloor heating vs radiator. Material construction appears similar to other builders in area.

The building/unit won't be finished until November 2020.

Base price of the unit is $214k. We have a list of roughly $13000 in upgrades that we'd like to do. At first, we were thinking that if they did them for free, it'd be a pretty sweet deal but now it seems there might be a better buying opportunity in the near future.

The only problem is that there are several selling features:
- Underground parking
- Underfloor heating in the unit
- On the top floor
- Adult-only building.
- South facing

I don't have much experience with purchasing property but I feel like condo units with the right specifications are a bit more difficult to find than cars. Perhaps I am wrong and someone could correct my perspective.

The head office seems adamant that they won't go below the base price but we just don't want to be caught with a huge drop in pricing after buying. The office emailed us and said they had already pre-approved a $3000 reduction which in my estimation was a pretty weak attempt at soliciting business in this climate.

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Originally Posted by rx7boi

Any thoughts or insights?

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What were you planning to offer? (Rhetorical question, really)
Depending how desperate they are, would you go 200k or lower? With flood of condos available, I found those even putting offers out are small. With Covid, even lower oil prices in additional to already crappy housing market, only way I would move ahead is if price was right.

Ok and another thing: buying pre-built. No way in hell I would ever do that again. I want to see what I am buying for sure. These days, no telling what shortcuts people take. And if they delay possession due to Covid, <insert excuse here>, etc. Watch in a few months, they try to fire sale these units for $199,900.

Has the insurance fuckery that tanked the condo prices been resolved? I'd imagine it hasn't - I would be seriously cautious about that investment right now

Renting has never looked more prudent.

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Originally Posted by rx7boi

The building/unit won't be finished until November 2020.

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Do not jump into a new build unless

a) you are ready for special assessments

b) you are ready to wait months/years for deficiencies to be fixed; and new UNKNOWN deficiencies to be discovered

c) your condo fees to jump 100% (in some cases) over the first 5 years.


I would strongly suggest instead, a 5-10 year old concrete building with a decent reserve (5k per door).

Is she planning on staying there for another 40 years? If the answer is no, then absolutely not. Condos are a complete disaster right now.

As someone who just bought a house let me say a few things.

I am currently renting a house in Calgary at $1700 a month. I was getting tired of renting and felt it was time to look into owning and went and chatted with Tim.

We knew what we wanted our budget at and we knew what we needed and wanted and found that in Calgary this was not feasible so we were looking outside the City.

We ended up with a 4 level split in Strathmore with a detached garage that is 28x25 with scissor truss rafters giving a ceiling height of somewhere in the 15-20 feet high range.

We feel that we got a good price for the house and a good interest rate. We will be paying in about what we are for renting for the first bit because of how we had to take care of our finances but I would say there isn't a single thing we regret and happy to own our own place.

We wouldn't have possibly had the same opportunity after June as we had to resign our lease and sort of put a quick schedule on it.

I also feel with the current situation with interest rates its a great time to buy but hey.... I'm no expert just some consumer in the end of it all.

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Originally Posted by revelations

Do not jump into a new build unless

a) you are ready for special assessments

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*Also applicable to non-new builds

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Originally Posted by rx7boi

It's a tough question for sure. Buying detached is out of the question; it's for my mother once my parents' house is sold and they go their own ways.

I should probably correct myself, the condo is in Kincora along Shaganappi across from the Walmart; I don't know why I said Sage Hill :rofl:

The builders are literally the only one in the area that uses underfloor heating vs radiator. Material construction appears similar to other builders in area.

The building/unit won't be finished until November 2020.

Base price of the unit is $214k. We have a list of roughly $13000 in upgrades that we'd like to do. At first, we were thinking that if they did them for free, it'd be a pretty sweet deal but now it seems there might be a better buying opportunity in the near future.

The only problem is that there are several selling features:
- Underground parking
- Underfloor heating in the unit
- On the top floor
- Adult-only building.
- South facing

I don't have much experience with purchasing property but I feel like condo units with the right specifications are a bit more difficult to find than cars. Perhaps I am wrong and someone could correct my perspective.

The head office seems adamant that they won't go below the base price but we just don't want to be caught with a huge drop in pricing after buying. The office emailed us and said they had already pre-approved a $3000 reduction which in my estimation was a pretty weak attempt at soliciting business in this climate.

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Not sure if this ever became law or not, but they were trying to make it so Adult only condos weren't allowed (except 55+)

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pm...s-condominiums

“It’s always a great time to buy” according to those blood sucking realtors. Personally I would buy if the price was 10-15% under market value

I would never buy a condo.

Brownstones or bust amirite

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Originally Posted by Tik-Tok

*Also applicable to non-new builds

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It depends on how well the older builds were managed and how much per door the reserve is - this is easy to find.

New builds will almost never have enough reserve per door.

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Originally Posted by ExtraSlow

Renting has never looked more prudent.

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And free month for Apr.

Met a landlord @ Lonestar waiting area, he got an eviction notice that has been worked on for 3 month and ready to serve on Apr 1st, now got cock blocked.

He already lost like $13K in damages to that property and can't get tenant out. He also got 2 other that ain't paying for Apr and leaving in June.

Unless it's your dream home or something, there is really no point to own.

Condo prices might go up with demand, depending on divorce rates after all this is over. :rofl:

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Originally Posted by 89coupe

I would never buy a condo.

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do you give that same advice to your clients? serious question, not trolling.

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Originally Posted by Xtrema

And free month for Apr.

Met a landlord @ Lonestar waiting area, he got an eviction notice that has been worked on for 3 month and ready to serve on Apr 1st, now got cock blocked.

He already lost like $13K in damages to that property and can't get tenant out. He also got 2 other that ain't paying for Apr and leaving in June.

Unless it's your dream home or something, there is really no point to own.

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That is BS though. Government specifically said this does not apply to tenants who are causing damage or whatever. So there is some protection for landlords too. Assuming it was worked on for 3 months and it was not Covid related, he should still be able to evict his ass.

I remember hearing it on the YourAlberta updates, but here is an article just for reference.

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Kenney also stressed that the emergency measures would be voided if a tenant committed a crime or caused damage inside a landlord’s property.

"We want landlords to understand that they can still protect the value of their property from renters who may be breaking the law or damaging their property."

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https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/new-land...nues-1.4871791

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Originally Posted by Xtrema

Unless it's your dream home or something, there is really no point to own.

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Damn, I was really wanting to debate you but my talking points are strictly emotional.

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Originally Posted by sabad66

do you give that same advice to your clients? serious question, not trolling.

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Yes I do. I really don’t recommend condos. Too many shitty management companies, & builders.

Not enough protection for the buyer. The little guy always gets the shaft when things go south.

I will always help my client with whatever they want but I try my best to be transparent.

I’m not in it for a quick sale.

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Originally Posted by flipstah

Damn, I was really wanting to debate you but my talking points are strictly emotional.

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Yeah, even with losing value, increasing tax, insurance and reno cost, it's still cheaper to own my home then rent one of equal size.

Plus I like to do shit it without asking for permission, but there's a price to that.

Thanks everyone. Looks like we'll be hanging tight for a while.

Even though Cove Properties is one of the few (only?) builder who uses the underfloor heating in condo units, it's a feature we would consider foregoing since the unit will likely be under 650 sq ft so even with radiator heating it won't be too loud.

I'll just mention again that detached living isn't an option and at least she'll be able to stay at my place until she finds something suitable.

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Originally Posted by 89coupe

Yes I do. I really don’t recommend condos. Too many shitty management companies, & builders.

Not enough protection for the buyer. The little guy always gets the shaft when things go south.

I will always help my client with whatever they want but I try my best to be transparent.

I’m not in it for a quick sale.

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Good call, nice to have honest realtors :thumbsup:

I wish my realtor gave me that advice before i bought my townhouse as i had trouble selling it when we upgraded. But then again that was back in 2015 so things were way different.

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Originally Posted by Xtrema

And free month for Apr.

Met a landlord @ Lonestar waiting area, he got an eviction notice that has been worked on for 3 month and ready to serve on Apr 1st, now got cock blocked.

He already lost like $13K in damages to that property and can't get tenant out. He also got 2 other that ain't paying for Apr and leaving in June.

Unless it's your dream home or something, there is really no point to own.

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OP is making purchase as primary residence so bad tenants is non issue.

Other comment is how quickly we go from FOMO to “no point to own”. In retrospect I’m glad oil prices came back to earth back in 2015. We would’ve been in a similar position to Toronto or Vancouver with seemingly unlimited amounts of FOMO. Saw lots of FOMO buying prior to that. Even when oil prices fell there were tons of ‘buy the dip’ assholes out there propping up prices.

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Originally Posted by Manhattan

OP is making purchase as primary residence so bad tenants is non issue.

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Not true. What about the bad tenant neighbours?

Is no one here predicting a crash once we're all allowed back out of our current homes???

There was shit loads of layoffs before all this started... and a ton more ongoing... isn't it a foregone conclusion?

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Originally Posted by jwslam

Not true. What about the bad tenant neighbours?

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They'll have the same neighbors whether renting or owning. :facepalm:

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Originally Posted by 370Z

Is no one here predicting a crash once we're all allowed back out of our current homes???

There was shit loads of layoffs before all this started... and a ton more ongoing... isn't it a foregone conclusion?

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I think several of us are predicting that exact thing. Don't buy, rent.

I would buy a condo if that is all that I could afford.

Not now though. I am looking to buy a discounted home in Aspen. Not because of the market crash, but because of the impending divorces that are sure to arise. Something on the right side of the 85 st should suit me just fine.

It would take a very specific set of variables to buy a condo in the far NW.
Not impossible. It took a specific set of variables for me to buy my place in the SE. It was a sellers market then. Its the opposite now.

The short answer is no. BUT I would not rule it out. Things may be working in your favour.
There is a massive domino effect on the economy that is yet to come. People out of work, they can't pay bills, mortgage, car loans, hair cuts, insurance, business lease payments ..you name it. Then you have knock on effect on luxury items as people are spending on things they only need to exist. I don't see a vaccine coming out that soon yet. Add to the fact you have a US election in November. Things are gonna get bouncy.

Then again those variables may not matter if that range of instability does not apply to your parent. i.e limited/no mortgage, low expenditures etc. So this could work in your mothers favour as things get hairy through the year.

One thing I would say is consider a perspective from a different angle. If you can, see a financial planner.

These are some key factors that should be considered.
Average female life expectancy in Canada is 82. Parents are Asian so add another 8 to that to be safe.
Factor in remaining working life if there is any. RRSP, Savings and projected government payments like OAP etc.
The planner should be able to calculate base costs of bills year after year, adjusting for inflation. Also factor in additional expenditures you would get with a house. Like the furnace going or roof leaking. That would be the condo equivalent of a special assessment.

This will give you a good baseline on the numbers to start with till very latter part of your parents life. They can show you year after year to give you a good idea. This will give you a more prudent approach to see how it fits in the overall picture of your mothers plan.
Hence buying a house may not be the best thing with higher cost's. I agree with you in regards to Condo and some features. There is a lot of crap out there that have no got basics right.

Im assuming the NW is a viable location as its near yourself and family. One thing that has not been mentioned here. Consider how far your parent is from a hospital, bustop, social circles/day centres. As they age, medical appointments will happen and mobility issues will start.
What type of lifestyle does your mother have. Does she garden, go for walks, have a friends circle etc. I can't stress this part enough. it might good for you being so close. But those key things such as medical and mobility will be big on her side.

To give a example I had a conversation with my mother two days ago. She mentioned when they bought their house in London 1970. A old man who was a friend of my dads mentioned to buy this particular house as it was next to schools, doctors, multiple bus-tops (a hospital 5mins away was built ten years later). Now m mother is 74, she realises exactly what this person was talking about as her ability to move has changed massively and they have many more medical appointments. Those things make a huge difference.

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Originally Posted by 2020

“It’s always a great time to buy” according to those blood sucking realtors. Personally I would buy if the price was 10-15% under market value

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Have I got a deal for you. I have a rental home in Cranston to sell. 1150 sq. ft with detached double garage corner lot. It needs love i'm not going to lie. I'll fire sale it.

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Originally Posted by 2020

“It’s always a great time to buy” according to those blood sucking realtors. Personally I would buy if the price was 10-15% under market value

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But what's market value?

One irrational reason to buy vs. rent: "I don't want to pay someone else's mortgage"

I like my condo unit though; concrete bones, healthy reserve, and a mix of landlords and private owners.

I guess all the renters that were holding out for global economic collapse were onto something... now would be the time to get into the market I would think.

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Originally Posted by flipstah

One irrational reason to buy vs. rent: "I don't want to pay someone else's mortgage"

I like my condo unit though; concrete bones, healthy reserve, and a mix of landlords and private owners.

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I mostly want one so I can actually remodel a few things to make it my own. Most of the rental condos look like rentals and are well worn and dated. Or they're brand new and tiny shoeboxes.

I wouldnt, the unemployment trends are going to push the prices down for a while. IF you found something you really liked and were ok losing money on it and staying put for a long time. yes go for it

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Originally Posted by Xtrema

Yeah, even with losing value, increasing tax, insurance and reno cost, it's still cheaper to own my home then rent one of equal size.

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Have you factored in the equity in your home? Whatever equity you have there's a lost opportunity cost to it in the range of 3 to 5%...maybe more depending on your time horizon. When I make this calculation its cheaper to rent. Say you have a long time horizon and assume 5% cost of capital on a $500K house. That's around 2 grand monthly on cost of capital before figuring in property tax, maintenance, fees to sell, etc. Meanwhile lots of $500K homes renting for under 2 grand.

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Originally Posted by Xtrema

But what's market value?

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I think he means today's price level. I'd want to see prices fall at least 20% from current levels to be tempted.

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Originally Posted by Manhattan

Have you factored in the equity in your home? Whatever equity you have there's a lost opportunity cost to it in the range of 3 to 5%...maybe more depending on your time horizon. When I make this calculation its cheaper to rent. Say you have a long time horizon and assume 5% cost of capital on a $500K house. That's around 2 grand monthly on cost of capital before figuring in property tax, maintenance, fees to sell, etc. Meanwhile lots of $500K homes renting for under 2 grand.

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$24K of rent vs $10K of tax and insurance. Now I know it's unfair comparison that I don't have a mortgage. Much like Flipstah, there is emotional and illogical component behind it that I really want to own my home and do whatever I want to it and will never risk it on the market.

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I think he means today's price level. I'd want to see prices fall at least 20% from current levels to be tempted.

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Yeah I know. I don't think Calgary got 20% to give but I could be proven wrong.

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Originally Posted by Xtrema

$24K of rent vs $10K of tax and insurance. Now I know it's unfair comparison that I don't have a mortgage. Much like Flipstah, there is emotional and illogical component behind it that I really want to own my home and do whatever I want to it and will never risk it on the market.



Yeah I know. I don't think Calgary got 20% to give but I could be proven wrong.

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Agreed on this part - a lot of rentals are pretty hardcore slumlord with $5 home depot light fixtures, $40 toilets and the window coverings might as well be made of newspaper. Rofl. I find in the condo rental inventory there's enough new build rentals that it's less of an issue.

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Originally Posted by Manhattan

Have you factored in the equity in your home? Whatever equity you have there's a lost opportunity cost to it in the range of 3 to 5%...maybe more depending on your time horizon. When I make this calculation its cheaper to rent. Say you have a long time horizon and assume 5% cost of capital on a $500K house. That's around 2 grand monthly on cost of capital before figuring in property tax, maintenance, fees to sell, etc. Meanwhile lots of $500K homes renting for under 2 grand.



I think he means today's price level. I'd want to see prices fall at least 20% from current levels to be tempted.

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3-5% opportunity cost is more like -20% if you currently invest in stocks and mutual funds though. A lot of the fantasy high gains use this recent unprecedented bull run to show incredible returns. The thing about owning is even if you miss out on gains, you are hedged better against market crashes.

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Originally Posted by pheoxs

3-5% opportunity cost is more like -20% if you currently invest in stocks and mutual funds though. A lot of the fantasy high gains use this recent unprecedented bull run to show incredible returns. The thing about owning is even if you miss out on gains, you are hedged better against market crashes.

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Yes minus 20% if you sold your investments immediately after every stock price drawdown. And yes the market on average drops 1 out of every 3 years. 3 to 5% is conservative if you consider the entire history of both the S&P500 and TSX returns is more than double my assumption. Time horizons...