Temporary layoff?

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11-14-2019, 07:24 PM
eblend

Temporary layoff?

Hi peeps,

Sorry not sure if this is the right section, but I need some assistance.

So today my dad was "Temporary laid off" due to lack of work (oil and gas servicing company), he got two weeks pay in lieu of notice and the law required form and explanations about the whole recall process etc, which after some light online reading I think I kind of understand. I looked online and seems like he can apply for EI right away, and I presume maintain it until he is brought back in, if he is brought back in.

Now the part that I am confused about is this...

In 3 weeks time, my dad is having his doctor consultation for his knee replacement surgery, with the surgery to follow shortly after we think. With that being said, what the heck happens if they recall my dad, but he can't come back within the 7 day period as required? If he can't come back, it's considered that he doesn't want the job, and he is fired without termination pay. My dad worked there for 7 years so he is due to 5 weeks of pay minimum based on my quick research. My dad is a year away from 65 and retirement, but his work is pretty specialized, so he might actually be brought back.

My other question is EI related. A few weeks ago my dad was considering going onto EI Sickness Benefit to leave work before his surgery as he is in pain, but decided to ride it out until the surgery. Now that he is "temporary" laid off, I don't think he can apply for this correct? Is EI Sickness Benefit any different from normal EI in terms of how much he gets paid? Can he claim both? If he is called back, does it mean for that period of time he is no longer temporary laid off, and can claim the EI sickness benefit? Really confused about this portion.

My parents don't have much money as is, so talking to a lawyer or whatever isn't really an option, so looking for some advice. If there is someone we can talk to for free regarding this situation it would be great. For completeness my mom was laid off almost 3 years ago so now they are officially both out of work.

That's all I got for questions at the moment.

Thanks
11-14-2019, 08:15 PM
ercchry

Sent this to a very senior director of HR... turns out it’s a head scratcher. She is going to make some calls for you though
11-14-2019, 09:54 PM
eblend

Quote:

Originally Posted by ercchry

Sent this to a very senior director of HR... turns out it’s a head scratcher. She is going to make some calls for you though

Thanks man, appreciate it very much.
11-14-2019, 10:02 PM
ThePenIsMightier

Wow, this sounds like a shit storm of awful. Sorry about that.
Is there any way he could perform his job in a modified duty capacity from home? Maybe they can accommodate him.
11-14-2019, 11:29 PM
eblend

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier

Wow, this sounds like a shit storm of awful. Sorry about that.
Is there any way he could perform his job in a modified duty capacity from home? Maybe they can accommodate him.

No, he works on manual 40-60 year old machines like metal lathe, milling machines and drills, whereas most other things nowadays are done on CNC. CNC is great for repeated tasks, but stuff my dad does are one off magic with metal. A year or so ago he wanted to quit and retire, but they begged him not to go, as no-one does these things anymore, definitely no one young. My dad got this job when another old timer retired 7 years ago and he got tired with his old place. It's interesting that he survived during the whole downturn, went through multiple years of work-sharing with the company, but now they finally laid him off. My dad was in a middle of working on a complicated custom piece when he got the news, and he even stayed an extra 45 minutes trying to explain how to finish the part to some other person, he is old school like that and has never been fired before. Don't think he knew what to do exactly and just cared about getting the part done for a company that just laid him off..

My dad's initial reaction when I was talking to him is that he never wants to go back there even if asked, and said all their shit will break very soon as he was maintaining all the equipment as well and only one who knew all the intricacies, but when I read the paperwork and did some research, the fact that he doesn't get severance if he doesn't come back if recalled is what worries me, because although it's at a minimum of only 5 weeks pay, it's a lot of money for them. I think the best thing for him would be that they don't recall him for 60 days, at which point he is terminated and they give him the package, at which point I think he will just retire and do cash jobs on the side for extra $$, he can't sit still.

The timing of all of this is also suspicious, I think he has been inquiring about doctor notes and long term disability...and a few weeks later he is temp laid off.
11-15-2019, 08:44 AM
ExtraSlow

It's really hard for older workers to handle these things. They take them incredibly personally. If you can, try to convince him to take the path that's best for his financial security, instead of what he thinks might hurt the company that hurt his feelings.

Service Canada might be able to offer some advice about what the various EI rules are. I always found them helpful once you got through to someone. They don't need your identification to give advice either.
11-15-2019, 09:00 AM
dirtsniffer

Personally I would speak with the surgeon and try to delay the surgery until after the 6 weeks has expired.
11-15-2019, 12:10 PM
mr2mike

That sounds like the easiest course of action at this point. Most surgeon's assistants are pretty on the ball and if you call and leave a message they'll get back to you and work with you.
11-15-2019, 01:44 PM
tirebob

If they call him back they do not necessarily have to give him severance anyways. They absolutely have the right to give notice in lieu of severance. They are not even obligated to give him the same work he was doing, as long as what they have him doing is reasonable for him to be able to do, so they could just put a broom in his hand and make him sweep for the entire five weeks. It he is terminated on the spot them he is owed severance, but if they give him the 5 weeks notice then they don’t have to pay him out. He just works out the rest of the required notice term. If he chooses to leave before his notice term is completed it is all on him then and they don’t have to pay it out. This is all assuming he doesn’t have an iron clad contract of course.
11-15-2019, 02:18 PM
ThePenIsMightier

Quote:

Originally Posted by tirebob

If they call him back they do not necessarily have to give him severance anyways. They absolutely have the right to give notice in lieu of severance. They are not even obligated to give him the same work he was doing, as long as what they have him doing is reasonable for him to be able to do, so they could just put a broom in his hand and make him sweep for the entire five weeks. It he is terminated on the spot them he is owed severance, but if they give him the 5 weeks notice then they don’t have to pay him out. He just works out the rest of the required notice term. If he chooses to leave before his notice term is completed it is all on him then and they don’t have to pay it out. This is all assuming he doesn’t have an iron clad contract of course.

This is very true but I think it's extremely rare. I have seen it used to reduce the payment for time in lieu, but it's not common to force someone to work through a full "severance" period.
11-15-2019, 02:33 PM
mr2mike

Tirebob... Not just a tire guy... Also HR / Employment intellect.
11-15-2019, 09:08 PM
arcticcat522

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier

This is very true but I think it's extremely rare. I have seen it used to reduce the payment for time in lieu, but it's not common to force someone to work through a full "severance" period.

I feel this is rare because, during the 5 weeks someone is just putting in time, there isn't much stopping people from "getting hurt" or some sort of long/short term disability through web. Not that it would happen in this case, but I know lots of employers are worried about that kind of thing.
11-16-2019, 10:13 AM
ThePenIsMightier

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcticcat522

I feel this is rare because, during the 5 weeks someone is just putting in time, there isn't much stopping people from "getting hurt" or some sort of long/short term disability through web. Not that it would happen in this case, but I know lots of employers are worried about that kind of thing.

Exactly. Plus, they're doing almost nothing during this time so there's little benefit. I've seen EPC's drive people down to about two weeks by forcing them to work for a few, but I don't think I've seen them go beyond that.
11-17-2019, 10:25 AM
tirebob

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePenIsMightier

Exactly. Plus, they're doing almost nothing during this time so there's little benefit. I've seen EPC's drive people down to about two weeks by forcing them to work for a few, but I don't think I've seen them go beyond that.

Definitely not saying it is right, but right and legal can be two different things. I note this because the OP mentioned his dad talking about long term disability and seeming suspicious. If a company has an employee collect long term disability through his work insurance or WCB it will affect their rates, often dramatically, and a shady company could be trying to avoid that. I have known a guy who was made to sit in an office with nothing to do so they could ride them out without paying actual severance just to be spiteful and hope the guy quit. Granted he was a shit employee who deserved it but my point is they can do it. I hope for the OP’s pops it isn’t going to be like that.
11-17-2019, 12:54 PM
bjstare

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr2mike

Tirebob... Not just a tire guy... Also HR / Employment intellect.

As are most small business owners.
11-17-2019, 02:38 PM
cam_wmh

Quote:

Originally Posted by tirebob

If they call him back they do not necessarily have to give him severance anyways. They absolutely have the right to give notice in lieu of severance. They are not even obligated to give him the same work he was doing, as long as what they have him doing is reasonable for him to be able to do, so they could just put a broom in his hand and make him sweep for the entire five weeks. It he is terminated on the spot them he is owed severance, but if they give him the 5 weeks notice then they don’t have to pay him out. He just works out the rest of the required notice term. If he chooses to leave before his notice term is completed it is all on him then and they don’t have to pay it out. This is all assuming he doesn’t have an iron clad contract of course.

Hold on. IANAL, but I believe in reduction in role, is akin to constructive dismissal.
11-17-2019, 03:09 PM
suntan

Quote:

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Hold on. IANAL, but I believe in reduction in role, is akin to constructive dismissal.

Only if he quits.
11-22-2019, 06:52 PM
cam_wmh

Quote:

Originally Posted by suntan

Only if he quits.

No, I don’t think that’s an absolute.
11-22-2019, 07:36 PM
AndyL

Pretty sure there is 0 chance your dad's replacement will be 'shortly' urgent/emergency replacements are 3+ months out... And it doesn't sound like he's there yet.
11-30-2019, 11:12 AM
eblend

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyL

Pretty sure there is 0 chance your dad's replacement will be 'shortly' urgent/emergency replacements are 3+ months out... And it doesn't sound like he's there yet.

Maybe, I don't even know, but my co-worker had his replaced and told me that after the consult with the doctor, it can happen pretty quick. Keep in mind, he has been already waiting 1 year since the process has started.