Testosterone Replacement Therapy?

[nzwasp]

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Is this a common side effect? Is that why you brought it up?

I dont understand your question

[ThePenIsMightier]

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I dont understand your question

Sorry. I must have quoted the wrong post.
I meant to quote the one about weight gain.

[nzwasp]

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Sorry. I must have quoted the wrong post.
I meant to quote the one about weight gain.

I this it is. https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/82/2/407/2823214

Heres a pic of me pre injection and a pic of me recently.

note bigger arms and gut and no hair. (the recent pic is before I started doing any real exercise).

I tried to find another shirtless photo but I cant find any.

Pre 2013 - Looked like this shape for years, basically since I left school


2018

[riander5]

I find it interesting you never get your T levels tested after you started? Do you have any idea what your levels are at?

Having optimized T levels leading to weight gain in the midsection is odd... unless your estrogen levels are high and i assume unchecked as well.

If i was doing HRT and my libido wasn't awesome and wasn't as lean as I was when I was 20.. id certainly be asking some questions

[nzwasp]

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I find it interesting you never get your T levels tested after you started? Do you have any idea what your levels are at?

Having optimized T levels leading to weight gain in the midsection is odd... unless your estrogen levels are high and i assume unchecked as well.

If i was doing HRT and my libido wasn't awesome and wasn't as lean as I was when I was 20.. id certainly be asking some questions

Im not even quite sure that I could ask the endocrinologist for a follow up 7 years later. I was basically told due to my syndrome that it would always be low. I will ask my doctor next time I see her. I probably need to be taking my injections more often than once every 2 weeks. I logged into that myhealth records but they only keep data for 18 months in there which is annoying.

[Misterman]

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Thread bump.

So when i started I was 200lbs, 7 years later my highest weight was 245lbs and now thanks to diet Im coming down to current 231 lbs. Lost all my hair, gained a beard and hair on my chest. At the start of treatment my libido was crazy but now that seems to of subsided - may need to increase the frequency of my injections, I only saw the endo once when I started TRT - never been told to have a follow up or anything. The reason I started was because I discovered i had a rare syndrome that causes low T and the doctor said I would be on it for life.

I find I get some funny looks when travelling with needles etc, the only time I really had a hassle was when I was working for Suncor the flight crew wouldnt let me board the plane with it. They thought it was illegal drugs.

What sort of dose have you been on? Did he have you take anything else, like for estrogen control?

They absolutely should have had you come in for routine bloodwork until you were lined out. If it was me I would look at scheduling some bloodwork to find out where you're at and if any fine tuning is required.

I ran TRT for about 4 years myself. Wife wanted to get pregnant so I had to come off. Looking to start back up again, but I've been waiting for the gyms to get opened up.

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Im not even quite sure that I could ask the endocrinologist for a follow up 7 years later. I was basically told due to my syndrome that it would always be low. I will ask my doctor next time I see her. I probably need to be taking my injections more often than once every 2 weeks. I logged into that myhealth records but they only keep data for 18 months in there which is annoying.

Every 2 weeks is a pretty old protocol now. The more frequent your injections, the more stable your levels will be. I didn't see what ester they have you on? Generally it would be Enanthate, which you can get away with once a week, but every 4 days or so is much better.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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I ran TRT for about 4 years myself. Wife wanted to get pregnant so I had to come off. Looking to start back up again, but I've been waiting for the gyms to get opened up.

Can you just arbitrarily decide to start again? Is there not criteria to meet medically to get your Dr. to initiate it? What led to it in the first place (if that isn't too personal)? My understanding is it is somewhat difficult to get a Dr. to prescribe it.

20 questions......

[nzwasp]

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What sort of dose have you been on? Did he have you take anything else, like for estrogen control?

They absolutely should have had you come in for routine bloodwork until you were lined out. If it was me I would look at scheduling some bloodwork to find out where you're at and if any fine tuning is required.

I ran TRT for about 4 years myself. Wife wanted to get pregnant so I had to come off. Looking to start back up again, but I've been waiting for the gyms to get opened up.


Every 2 weeks is a pretty old protocol now. The more frequent your injections, the more stable your levels will be. I didn't see what ester they have you on? Generally it would be Enanthate, which you can get away with once a week, but every 4 days or so is much better.

Im on 200mg testosterone cypionate every two weeks. I used to be on enanthate but the pharmacy couldnt get any supplies. It seems like every year they have a shortage of one of the two testosterone supplements.

My opinion on specialist health care in Canada is quite low, it seems you see a specialist they do a procedure or give you some drugs and you never see them again.

[spike98]

Here his how my journey went, warning, its a lot!:

About 5 years ago, things started to change for me. Tired all the time, brain fog, no motivation to do anything, fat gain/muscle loss, little bit of ED ect. I basically just didn't give a shit anymore and was coasting through life. My mood also caused a lot of problems in my relationship. I figured i would get myself checked out by my doctor. I always have physicals with nothing coming up but after describing my symptoms, he gave me a full work up. After the labs came back and i went for my follow up, he sat me down and told me it was in my head and i should hit up some counseling, that my bloods were fine and there is nothing physically wrong with me. So, on his advise, i did some counseling. About 10 sessions in total if i recall. They had value for sure and was a nice outlet to vent my daily woes. However she figured there isn't much wrong with me head wise. Her words "You're about as stressed as a normal human being"

Frustrated, i started some research myself. Hormone balance was something that consistently came up but i kind of ignored it. I was 35, there is no way that was me. I was kind of embarrassed about it to be honest. Things like testosterone are essentially what makes you a man and too much of it makes you roid rage. That said, I was still curious so i got involved with a calgary men's wellness clinic (more on this later). They went through the full gamut. Physical (including the ol dipstick), blood work,iron , D, cortisol, all the body fluids, everything. Everything was normal shy of some body fat i had form being a lazy POS except for a few things in my lab. My total Testosterone was a 9.6nmo/L, free testosterone 227pmol/L and DHEA was 3. All low. Very low. The problem is that it was still considered in range for males 25-85. Yes. Up to 85 years old. My original doctor basically looks for the bold lettering when labs come back that state out of range and considers it normal otherwise. He suggested that this could totally be the issue.

The thing with test is that doctors don't know much about it and its effects for normal people. The stigma is, supplement test and you are a steroid user. You'll have roid rage and likely snap and kill your family or die from a heart attack by the time you are 40. Because of this, it is often scoffed at by GP's. They don't study it because of its stigma. The reality is that "normal" can mean many different levels and many different symptoms. Low test could be the cause of other issues often associated with mental health like anxiety and depression. Its a major component of how we work and function.

So, enter Clomid.For this clinic, this is usually the first step. This is a drug that boosts testosterone by making your body think that estrogen(E2) levels are low. The link between estrogen and testosterone is very important and you need a balance between the two. Clomid lowers your E2 so you body jacks the Test. I did this for about 8 weeks and did some blood work. My numbers were up by almost double! But that was it. No real change in symptoms. I was also experiencing mood swings now and was often to sensitive to things (ie crying, fuck). Classic symptoms of high estrogen. I didn't like it and felt worse so back to the clinic i went.

After a long discussion they agreed to put me on injections. I didn't want the cream. Transfer, multiple daily applications, and inconsistency were my concerns. So they put me on injections. Delatestryl, testosterone enanthate, 100mg every week and supplemented DHEA. This is a standard protocol from what I found. It was scary to be honest, its a life time gig. Once you are on it, your body stops producing its own and its really hard to kickstart it back into production if on it long enough. But i honestly didn't have much to lose, I just wanted to feel me again. Over the course of a month, i just felt better and better. Fog lifted, energy returned, random boners were back, i felt great! Near the end of the week of my cycle, i would start to feel drained a bit and be a little cranky though. After about 3 months, i got my bloods again, levels were high! 26.4nmol/L total and 701pmol/L. This was just over the "normal range" on the lab work. However my estradiol was high, 185pmol/L. Bloods are done at the end of the week and this totally explained why i would peter out and became a crybaby on day 5-6. Made an adjustment to the protocol myself and started splitting up the dose to every 3 days. More frequent injections lead to are more stable test level and lower estradiol as there is less conversion as excess T gets converted.

Fast forward another 8 weeks. Symptoms of high E are gone. I feel like fucking superman most days. Confidence way up. Fat dripping off. Muscle mass obviously increasing (most noticeable on my calves and forearms). My mood was stable. Boners! Boners all the time. I for the first time in a while felt like i had a purpose. Like i could do anything i wanted to. The drive was back. I did my bloods after 3 months again. Same T levels with a slight downtick in my Estradiol (128pmol/L). Not amazing but out of the high range. Doc didn't like the high E so he wanted to lower my dosage. I felt fine, no E symptoms at all even though it was high on paper. Remember, its a balance. Higher test will obviously lead to higher E. Its the ratio that is important.

Having done some research, i had asked to switch to testosterone cypionate. Its a longer lasting ester and is the gold standard for TRT. With a longer half life, it should not aromatize as bad and bring my E number down a bit. He agreed and off i went. Same dosage mg wise, every 3 days like before. I still felt great. Got a promotion at work even. 10 weeks later we did the labs again and sure enough. Lower E. 128pmol/L and back down in the normal range. Free T and Total T were all the same as before. I was dialed in. That leads me to today. I feel like i am a man again. I have lost 10lbs, back to dieting and regular exercise, I am full of confidence and energy. I just feel me and couldn't be happier. I do have one negative side effect and that's increased prostate pressure. Doc has me on 5mg daily cialis for this and works perfect. Bonus is my erections are like lead pipes.

Now some lessons learned that are oh so important:

- Stress, diet, exercise, and sleep are the most important factors that can impact your test. Do your best to get these check.
- This is a long process. Expect it to take a year plus to diagnose and dial in.
- Most GP's do not know shit about TRT and hormones. They go by the ranges in labs which can wildly vary. They are focused on the numbers and not the symptoms and often say its mental.
- With TRT, less is more sometimes. Its not about being jacked its about restoring the balance. Your body knows what it needs.
- Estrogen is important too, too much and you cry like a baby and get tits, not enough and TRT is pointless because low E feels a lot like low T.
- Own it. I don't hide it or keep it secret. Ill tell everyone and anyone about my story because of how its changed my life.
- Most, yes MOST men are not operating at optimal levels of test. Plastics we store our food/drinks in, preservatives, shitty life styles/diets, stress, ect are all part of our daily life today that has been systematically reducing the amount of Test we produce compared to 50 years ago. The average test in males has decreased by half since then.


To the clinic...

I wont share the name unless someone PM's me but they did me well in the beginning. It kind of started to feel like i was a dollar bill and that they just wanted to keep me coming back for money. This process costed a lot. A few thousand the first year with the visits and checks. The scripts are covered of course but you pay $175 every time you walk into the clinic. It felt near the end that he wanted to just change my script to keep me coming back. Now i am on 6 month visits which is better. That said, I will be switching however to an online clinic next time. They are game changes in the states and finally we have a decent one in canada as well. Will be cheaper overall and more centered around TRT specifically. I wish this was around when i started. Will also share this by PM too.

Overall its been a life changing experience and has had an immensely positive effect on my life, my career, and my relationships. I would encourage anyone to get checked.

[Misterman]

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Can you just arbitrarily decide to start again? Is there not criteria to meet medically to get your Dr. to initiate it? What led to it in the first place (if that isn't too personal)? My understanding is it is somewhat difficult to get a Dr. to prescribe it.

20 questions......

Personally I'm familiar enough with my system that I am not visiting a doctor for this. I did get some bloodwork to get my baseline numbers though.

Really depends on your doctor, but family doctor is the wrong guy to go to if you want to get on TRT. My doctor is great, but at the end of the day a GP is a jack of all trades and specialist at nothing. Plus what is actually a healthy level of testosterone is horribly misunderstood by most doctors, which is understandable as they work off archaic knowledge from schooling that we have learned way more about in the past 5-10 years. I'll be looking for a TRT prescription if I get the job offer to get out of Canada. At that time I will go to a TRT clinic that specializes in this. There is one in Sherwood Park called True Balance.

As far as what led to TRT. I used to be a competitive bodybuilder. And if you're going to to cycle steroids more than once a year, it's not worth flip flopping your system and potentially losing some of your gains when you cycle off. So I decided to just do TRT between cycles. After that, I just decided I wanted to be on the high side of normal forever. There is no health benefits to being low T, and it continues to get lower as you age. So it makes sense from a health perspective to just go TRT and control your hormone levels.

[spike98]

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I this it is. https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/82/2/407/2823214

Heres a pic of me pre injection and a pic of me recently.

note bigger arms and gut and no hair. (the recent pic is before I started doing any real exercise).

I tried to find another shirtless photo but I cant find any.

Pre 2013 - Looked like this shape for years, basically since I left school


2018

Man, your stomach is classic high Estrogen. The way it sits on your hips and body is a dead give away. Please get checked, your protocol is old and should be much more frequent.

[nzwasp]

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Man, your stomach is classic high Estrogen. The way it sits on your hips and body is a dead give away. Please get checked, your protocol is old and should be much more frequent.

You sure about that (i was looking up the belly fat thing):

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...f-low-estrogen

Symptoms of low estrogen in men
Low levels of estrogen in the male body can produce symptoms such as:

decreased sex drive
excess fat around the belly
bone loss
osteoporosis

made an appointment with my GP to get some bloodwork tomorrow. I will post the results on here when I get them.

[spike98]

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You sure about that (i was looking up the belly fat thing):

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...f-low-estrogen

Symptoms of low estrogen in men
Low levels of estrogen in the male body can produce symptoms such as:

decreased sex drive
excess fat around the belly
bone loss
osteoporosis

made an appointment with my GP to get some bloodwork tomorrow. I will post the results on here when I get them.

Not entirely because i am not qualified to make that determination. But in my research it certainly suggests that. Also google symptoms of high estrogen in men. Similar symptoms. Im more so going off of what i have seen in the forums. Guys posting pictures looking for advice by people doing this much much longer than me.

[Misterman]

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Im on 200mg testosterone cypionate every two weeks. I used to be on enanthate but the pharmacy couldnt get any supplies. It seems like every year they have a shortage of one of the two testosterone supplements.

My opinion on specialist health care in Canada is quite low, it seems you see a specialist they do a procedure or give you some drugs and you never see them again.

I would say it's worth your time to visit a clinic like True balance that I mentioned. It might even be covered by your insurance.

I don't know the specifics of your condition, but for a general TRT dose it seems a little low and far too spaced out. Cyp and Enanthate aren't really much different half life, so pinning times would be pretty much the same.

BTW, if you're still using those giant needles, you can easily switch to an insulin needle. I find them much more comfortable, it's a 29g vs a 22g, huge difference. I just use a 22g to draw my shot, then pull the plunger out of the slin pin and squirt the shot into the insulin syringe. place the stopper back in lightly, turn the whole thing upside down to let the air up to the needle, then push the air out and you're good to go.

[Misterman]

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You sure about that (i was looking up the belly fat thing):

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/art...f-low-estrogen

Symptoms of low estrogen in men
Low levels of estrogen in the male body can produce symptoms such as:

decreased sex drive
excess fat around the belly
bone loss
osteoporosis

made an appointment with my GP to get some bloodwork tomorrow. I will post the results on here when I get them.

Low and high estrogen both have very similar side effects. Although high estrogen tends to affect your emotional side a lot as well as the other things.

[riander5]

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Fast forward another 8 weeks. Symptoms of high E are gone. I feel like fucking superman most days. Confidence way up. Fat dripping off. Muscle mass obviously increasing (most noticeable on my calves and forearms). My mood was stable. Boners! Boners all the time. I for the first time in a while felt like i had a purpose. Like i could do anything i wanted to. The drive was back. I did my bloods after 3 months again. Same T levels with a slight downtick in my Estradiol (128pmol/L). Not amazing but out of the high range. Doc didn't like the high E so he wanted to lower my dosage. I felt fine, no E symptoms at all even though it was high on paper. Remember, its a balance. Higher test will obviously lead to higher E. Its the ratio that is important.

Overall its been a life changing experience and has had an immensely positive effect on my life, my career, and my relationships. I would encourage anyone to get checked.

Snip

This is exactly how proper TRT should feel for someone with low T. Not just a spike for a few weeks and back to normal

[nzwasp]

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I would say it's worth your time to visit a clinic like True balance that I mentioned. It might even be covered by your insurance.

I don't know the specifics of your condition, but for a general TRT dose it seems a little low and far too spaced out. Cyp and Enanthate aren't really much different half life, so pinning times would be pretty much the same.

BTW, if you're still using those giant needles, you can easily switch to an insulin needle. I find them much more comfortable, it's a 29g vs a 22g, huge difference. I just use a 22g to draw my shot, then pull the plunger out of the slin pin and squirt the shot into the insulin syringe. place the stopper back in lightly, turn the whole thing upside down to let the air up to the needle, then push the air out and you're good to go.

I used 18g to get the dose, 22g to inject. I dont mind it, I Think the doc originally said the oil or whatever they suspend the test in doesnt work through the thinner needles. I honestly havent tried. My TRT injections felt great for prob the first 3 years. I dont think my belly fat is solely attributed to TRT and side effects. I spent almost 3 years working up in fort mac and ate a lot of shit food while mostly working a sedentary job. Although now that I am consistently working out every day I would of thought I would see strength gains and weight loss quicker than I have. I will look into the clinic after I have got my blood test results. The problem with my doctor is shes pretty fucking useless - I am unsure she would even know what to do with the results other than refer me back to an endo.

[ExtraSlow]

a referral to an endo is probably the best you can hope for from your family physician. Worth doing I'd think either way.

[Misterman]

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I used 18g to get the dose, 22g to inject. I dont mind it, I Think the doc originally said the oil or whatever they suspend the test in doesnt work through the thinner needles. I honestly havent tried. My TRT injections felt great for prob the first 3 years. I dont think my belly fat is solely attributed to TRT and side effects. I spent almost 3 years working up in fort mac and ate a lot of shit food while mostly working a sedentary job. Although now that I am consistently working out every day I would of thought I would see strength gains and weight loss quicker than I have. I will look into the clinic after I have got my blood test results. The problem with my doctor is shes pretty fucking useless - I am unsure she would even know what to do with the results other than refer me back to an endo.

It's a sad state of affairs when you can get quicker and more accurate help from a bunch of meatheads on a steroid forum. lol

It seems like it would be impossible to get the oil through that small of a gauge of needle. But once you think about how pressure is created it makes more sense. The force you apply from your thumb is constant, but it's applied to a much smaller surface area plunger that directly acts on the fluid in the syringe. So you're creating a lot more pressure. And even if my meathead science doesn't make sense, I can guarantee personally that it just works, I've gone through over 300 insulin syringes. The main issue is getting it deep enough in the muscle, but if you don't have a ton of bodyfat, a 5/8" needle will do the trick.

[riander5]

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I used 18g to get the dose, 22g to inject. I dont mind it, I Think the doc originally said the oil or whatever they suspend the test in doesnt work through the thinner needles. I honestly havent tried. My TRT injections felt great for prob the first 3 years. I dont think my belly fat is solely attributed to TRT and side effects. I spent almost 3 years working up in fort mac and ate a lot of shit food while mostly working a sedentary job. Although now that I am consistently working out every day I would of thought I would see strength gains and weight loss quicker than I have. I will look into the clinic after I have got my blood test results. The problem with my doctor is shes pretty fucking useless - I am unsure she would even know what to do with the results other than refer me back to an endo.

This circles back to the naturopath thread. Unless you got an allstar needle in the haystack GP, you gotta do all this shit yourself. Assume to live your best life you need to become an expert on TRT and hormone replacement. Will be worth it in the end.

Also despite this guy being a massive bro and having some other hilarious content to just drum up views, he is smart as fuck when it comes to steroids, TRT, and the like.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoR...Ts3ByOv74OAbFw