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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzwasp View Post
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    I used 18g to get the dose, 22g to inject. I dont mind it, I Think the doc originally said the oil or whatever they suspend the test in doesnt work through the thinner needles. I honestly havent tried. My TRT injections felt great for prob the first 3 years. I dont think my belly fat is solely attributed to TRT and side effects. I spent almost 3 years working up in fort mac and ate a lot of shit food while mostly working a sedentary job. Although now that I am consistently working out every day I would of thought I would see strength gains and weight loss quicker than I have. I will look into the clinic after I have got my blood test results. The problem with my doctor is shes pretty fucking useless - I am unsure she would even know what to do with the results other than refer me back to an endo.
    Ill disagree with Extraslow, i would go third party clinic. Youll be in within a couple of weeks. Even endo's can be wacky. I have heard some folks online going from an Endo to a Uro then back to an Endo because neither of them want to deal with it. These MD's at the clinics are often one or the other anyways. You just pay to play.

    There is also the telemedicine clinic that is getting great reviews in canada as well.

    You could be waiting for months to see an endo only to turn out nothing is wrong or you could be fixed with an adjustment to your protocol. It starts with the bloods so the sooner you can get those done, the better.

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    I went back and looked at my weigh ins for 2013 and 2014. In 2013 when I started TRT I wasnt 200lbs I was 215lbs and a year later in the same month that I started I was 225lbs. So between 2014 and 2020 I had put on a further 20lbs. I have 6'2" I am unsure what a healthy weight is but its suggested I should be something like 165-185lbs as healthy.
    @Misterman why did you originally start using TRT, was it for bodybuilding or for health reasons? that clinic you mentioned is quite close to where I live, did you go there?

    Quote Originally Posted by spike98 View Post
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    Man, your stomach is classic high Estrogen. The way it sits on your hips and body is a dead give away. Please get checked, your protocol is old and should be much more frequent.
    The syndrome I have also causes this but perhaps its because of the Estrogen levels. The Syndrome I have is called Kleinsfelters Mosaics - I was born with an extra X chromosome in some cells:

    The symptoms of which are these and I will explain how some affect me, mosaics mean not all symptoms apply to me.

    Low sperm count or no sperm (When we had kids I was told I had a 99.999999999999% chance of never having kids - had to go IVF ICSI to have two kids)
    Small testicles (I didnt realize I had this but I do however I have a large varicocele in one of my nuts which makes it seem large to me)
    Low sex drive (didnt notice this when I was in my 20s, I think its more noticeable now, even with TRT it might just be because of my dosage)
    Taller than average height
    Weak bones (one of the reasons im on TRT is that this syndrome gives you a increased chance of osteoporosis)
    Decreased facial and body hair (yes - never had any hair on chest/back or face)
    Less muscular compared with other men
    Enlarged breast tissue (i had a lump next to my nipple during puberty - it went away after awhile - in NZ they never tested for this syndrome)
    Increased belly fat (I always had a bit of a gut during teenage years / 20s but nothing compared to what I have now)
    Last edited by nzwasp; 01-18-2021 at 04:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nzwasp View Post
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    I went back and looked at my weigh ins for 2013 and 2014. In 2013 when I started TRT I wasnt 200lbs I was 215lbs and a year later in the same month that I started I was 225lbs. So between 2014 and 2020 I had put on a further 20lbs. I have 6'2" I am unsure what a healthy weight is but its suggested I should be something like 165-185lbs as healthy.
    @Misterman why did you originally start using TRT, was it for bodybuilding or for health reasons? that clinic you mentioned is quite close to where I live, did you go there?
    I mentioned in another post why I started. Basically wasn't worth swinging my hormones all over between cycles. But then it transitioned to health as I just wanted to maintain steady higher test levels as I age.

    I know 3 friends who have gone to that specific clinic and had great results. I plan to use them myself once I need to get a script.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nzwasp View Post
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    I went back and looked at my weigh ins for 2013 and 2014. In 2013 when I started TRT I wasnt 200lbs I was 215lbs and a year later in the same month that I started I was 225lbs. So between 2014 and 2020 I had put on a further 20lbs. I have 6'2" I am unsure what a healthy weight is but its suggested I should be something like 165-185lbs as healthy.
    @Misterman why did you originally start using TRT, was it for bodybuilding or for health reasons? that clinic you mentioned is quite close to where I live, did you go there?



    The syndrome I have also causes this but perhaps its because of the Estrogen levels. The Syndrome I have is called Kleinsfelters Mosaics - I was born with an extra X chromosome in some cells:

    The symptoms of which are these and I will explain how some affect me, mosaics mean not all symptoms apply to me.

    Low sperm count or no sperm (When we had kids I was told I had a 99.999999999999% chance of never having kids - had to go IVF ICSI to have two kids)
    Small testicles (I didnt realize I had this but I do however I have a large varicocele in one of my nuts which makes it seem large to me)
    Low sex drive (didnt notice this when I was in my 20s, I think its more noticeable now, even with TRT it might just be because of my dosage)
    Taller than average height
    Weak bones (one of the reasons im on TRT is that this syndrome gives you a increased chance of osteoporosis)
    Decreased facial and body hair (yes - never had any hair on chest/back or face)
    Less muscular compared with other men
    Enlarged breast tissue (i had a lump next to my nipple during puberty - it went away after awhile - in NZ they never tested for this syndrome)
    Increased belly fat (I always had a bit of a gut during teenage years / 20s but nothing compared to what I have now)
    I definately didn't consider any preconditions you had for sure. It may not be E related. Still, definitely get checked. Did some checking on the syndrome, fascinating.

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    Yeah I just filled in the pre patient stuff for that clinic @Misterman recommended me for. Looks like the costs aren't crazy or anything and they use AHS labs for blood tests.

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    I've been on depo-testosterone for a year and a half or so. I just went to a regular doctor and didn't have any issues getting a prescription, but some doctors prescribe things based on lab results rather than symptoms.

    I go to the pharmacist every two weeks and they shoot me up. I don't know if I could get needles to give to myself at home or not. When covid first came here there were issues getting PPE to give injections, so they put me on an equivalent dose of Androgel for two months. I hated that and I'd rather just go with nothing than gel if I can't get the needles. I didn't feel like it did anything, and instead of having a crash at the end of the two week cycle like I have with needles, I got it every day around 7pm.

    I'm a bit late to the party today but thought I'd chip in my two cents. Went to the doctor once, the lab twice for bloodwork, and within two weeks I was getting injections at the pharmacy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKR View Post
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    I've been on depo-testosterone for a year and a half or so. I just went to a regular doctor and didn't have any issues getting a prescription, but some doctors prescribe things based on lab results rather than symptoms.

    I go to the pharmacist every two weeks and they shoot me up. I don't know if I could get needles to give to myself at home or not. When covid first came here there were issues getting PPE to give injections, so they put me on an equivalent dose of Androgel for two months. I hated that and I'd rather just go with nothing than gel if I can't get the needles. I didn't feel like it did anything, and instead of having a crash at the end of the two week cycle like I have with needles, I got it every day around 7pm.

    I'm a bit late to the party today but thought I'd chip in my two cents. Went to the doctor once, the lab twice for bloodwork, and within two weeks I was getting injections at the pharmacy.
    I'm also on depo - you dont think you could stick yourself? its easier than you think. I watched a bunch of those more plates more dates videos and I can see the point of the other needles, just curious if @Misterman puts them in his leg or in his arse. I think I need to be on more frequent injections for sure although 2 weeks has been handy for travel reasons, I guess I can modify for my trip in June if it happens, I wont be able to take my TST then.
    @SKR for the regular needles you can get them from coop home health they are about $20 for 100 x 3ml syringes, and then I use 18G to get dose from my 10ml bottle and then 22G to inject. The needles push onto the syringes they do not screw on (this is important).
    Last edited by nzwasp; 01-18-2021 at 06:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKR View Post
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    I've been on depo-testosterone for a year and a half or so. I just went to a regular doctor and didn't have any issues getting a prescription, but some doctors prescribe things based on lab results rather than symptoms.

    I go to the pharmacist every two weeks and they shoot me up. I don't know if I could get needles to give to myself at home or not. When covid first came here there were issues getting PPE to give injections, so they put me on an equivalent dose of Androgel for two months. I hated that and I'd rather just go with nothing than gel if I can't get the needles. I didn't feel like it did anything, and instead of having a crash at the end of the two week cycle like I have with needles, I got it every day around 7pm.

    I'm a bit late to the party today but thought I'd chip in my two cents. Went to the doctor once, the lab twice for bloodwork, and within two weeks I was getting injections at the pharmacy.
    Wow - I'll echo the previous poster and say you should learn to pin yourself. It's very easy. Once your comfortable with the process, reduce the injection interval to weekly, and then every 4th day if possible. You might consider exploring subcutaneous injections vs IM, as the bioavailability of test increases and you can reduce the volume you inject. It's also much less trauma at the injection site. GL!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzwasp View Post
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    I'm also on depo - you dont think you could stick yourself? its easier than you think. I watched a bunch of those more plates more dates videos and I can see the point of the other needles, just curious if @Misterman puts them in his leg or in his arse. I think I need to be on more frequent injections for sure although 2 weeks has been handy for travel reasons, I guess I can modify for my trip in June if it happens, I wont be able to take my TST then.
    @SKR for the regular needles you can get them from coop home health they are about $20 for 100 x 3ml syringes, and then I use 18G to get dose from my 10ml bottle and then 22G to inject. The needles push onto the syringes they do not screw on (this is important).
    Quote Originally Posted by zipdoa View Post
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    Wow - I'll echo the previous poster and say you should learn to pin yourself. It's very easy. Once your comfortable with the process, reduce the injection interval to weekly, and then every 4th day if possible. You might consider exploring subcutaneous injections vs IM, as the bioavailability of test increases and you can reduce the volume you inject. It's also much less trauma at the injection site. GL!
    I never have done it myself, but I could probably figure it out. I watched my dad give himself insulin 4 times a day for 30 years so it would be easy enough to do. I'd rather not though.

    I don't mind going in and getting the needles though. I don't generally deal with a lot of people throughout the day, so going in to a pharmacy isn't a big deal like it would be for someone who just wants to go home and sit in quiet. It's nice to have some kind of an interaction with someone other than myself once in a while. It's only a 5 minute drive to get there. And I don't need to go any more often than every 14 days. I've been tested on day 7 and day 14, and my levels are still well above the low end of normal. It's not until day 16-18 where the effects of low testosterone start to affect me, and even then it's just hot flashes every few days. That's unpleasant but I can deal with that.

    If I needed a top up more often or if I wasn't able to get in to the pharmacy on day 14 I might consider the needles, but this is working alright for me.
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    I personally use 25ga draw and inject with 1cc barrels. I find the 1cc is much easier to plunge. Alternating thighs for me. No scar tissue or PIP.

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    Alright I think I'm starting to wrap my mind around this. Gonna book in with the GP this week and want to make sure I know enough to have the conversation when I get there.

    So for testing, I'm looking for free test, total test, DHEA and estrogen levels, measured twice, one week apart, plus whatever medical conditions doc wants to look for i.e. pituitary, hypothalamus issues?

    If test shows low estrogen, might get asked to try treating that first i.e. clomiphene. Probably ask nicely to skip this and go straight to depo?

    Bank sperm before treatment, just in case.

    And for prescriptions are you guys just taking cypionate/enanthate on its own or do you supplement with anything else? I think there were some passing comments about DHEA supplements and estradiol. If I understand it right, you would not take DHEA supplements (unpredictable result with depo), but you might take estradiol if you have low estrogen - otherwise just the testosterone injection is all that's needed?

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    I don't know piss all from paint about that. Alls I know is I expected to be low on testosterone. I went in and got tested, and turns out I was low. Then they told me to get 2mL of Depo-T every 2 weeks. I assume that's for the rest of my life. I don't know what other tests I had done or what their results were, and the myhealth thing doesn't show all my test results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdman86 View Post
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    Alright I think I'm starting to wrap my mind around this. Gonna book in with the GP this week and want to make sure I know enough to have the conversation when I get there.

    So for testing, I'm looking for free test, total test, DHEA and estrogen levels, measured twice, one week apart, plus whatever medical conditions doc wants to look for i.e. pituitary, hypothalamus issues?

    If test shows low estrogen, might get asked to try treating that first i.e. clomiphene. Probably ask nicely to skip this and go straight to depo?

    Bank sperm before treatment, just in case.

    And for prescriptions are you guys just taking cypionate/enanthate on its own or do you supplement with anything else? I think there were some passing comments about DHEA supplements and estradiol. If I understand it right, you would not take DHEA supplements (unpredictable result with depo), but you might take estradiol if you have low estrogen - otherwise just the testosterone injection is all that's needed?
    I don't know about the other guys but I get 10ML of cypionate every 58 days. Insurance doesn't allow you to have more than one at a time, so you cant bank them up if you are going on a long vacation. Atleast my insurance/pharmacy doesn't allow this - seems to be different in the states. Other than that its needles and alcohol wipes to keep everything sterile.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SKR View Post
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    I don't know piss all from paint about that. Alls I know is I expected to be low on testosterone. I went in and got tested, and turns out I was low. Then they told me to get 2mL of Depo-T every 2 weeks. I assume that's for the rest of my life. I don't know what other tests I had done or what their results were, and the myhealth thing doesn't show all my test results.
    This seems very similar to the experience I had with your dosage - except the Endo at the Richmond Road Health Center told me this instead of my doctor. Infact thats where I was taught how to give myself shots as well.

    I have been a bit lazy and forgetting to do my shots on time, I suspect that hasn't helped with keeping everything on track. I wish there was some kind of app for tracking the shots Its a pain in the arse in the calendar to do the alternative legs thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nzwasp View Post
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    I have been a bit lazy and forgetting to do my shots on time, I suspect that hasn't helped with keeping everything on track. I wish there was some kind of app for tracking the shots Its a pain in the arse in the calendar to do the alternative legs thing.
    Do you have to alternate? I just get the shots in my shoulder. I usually get it in the same one, until I notice that it starts to ache a little longer and then I switch.

    If I have to start pulling my pants down to get it in my legs or ass cheek in the pharmacy, that's going to take a lot of the fun out of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdman86 View Post
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    Alright I think I'm starting to wrap my mind around this. Gonna book in with the GP this week and want to make sure I know enough to have the conversation when I get there.

    So for testing, I'm looking for free test, total test, DHEA and estrogen levels, measured twice, one week apart, plus whatever medical conditions doc wants to look for i.e. pituitary, hypothalamus issues?

    If test shows low estrogen, might get asked to try treating that first i.e. clomiphene. Probably ask nicely to skip this and go straight to depo?

    Bank sperm before treatment, just in case.

    And for prescriptions are you guys just taking cypionate/enanthate on its own or do you supplement with anything else? I think there were some passing comments about DHEA supplements and estradiol. If I understand it right, you would not take DHEA supplements (unpredictable result with depo), but you might take estradiol if you have low estrogen - otherwise just the testosterone injection is all that's needed?
    Testing:

    - Free Test
    - Total Test
    - Estradiol
    - DHEA-S
    - LH
    - FSH
    - Full CBC
    - Thyroid
    - Cortisol, all day (if you can afford it)

    Prescriptions:

    - Test C
    - HCG (if you want to have kids and dont want to freeze sperm)

    Thats all you will need. You can mess with other things later but its important to get a baseline first and the doc will adjust you from there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spike98 View Post
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    Testing:

    - Free Test
    - Total Test
    - Estradiol
    - DHEA-S
    - LH
    - FSH
    - Full CBC
    - Thyroid
    - Cortisol, all day (if you can afford it)

    Prescriptions:

    - Test C
    - HCG (if you want to have kids and dont want to freeze sperm)

    Thats all you will need. You can mess with other things later but its important to get a baseline first and the doc will adjust you from there.
    Freezing sperm also costs money and has a yearly freezer storage cost of about $300

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    Quote Originally Posted by nzwasp View Post
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    I'm also on depo - you dont think you could stick yourself? its easier than you think. I watched a bunch of those more plates more dates videos and I can see the point of the other needles, just curious if @Misterman puts them in his leg or in his arse. I think I need to be on more frequent injections for sure although 2 weeks has been handy for travel reasons, I guess I can modify for my trip in June if it happens, I wont be able to take my TST then.
    @SKR for the regular needles you can get them from coop home health they are about $20 for 100 x 3ml syringes, and then I use 18G to get dose from my 10ml bottle and then 22G to inject. The needles push onto the syringes they do not screw on (this is important).


    I rotate glutes, quads, and shoulders

    Best place for needles if you're not covered, or if you just want access to supply, is this site here. Comes from Campbell River, so shipping is pretty quick.

    https://www.canadianmedsupplies.com/...?categoryId=21

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKR View Post
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    I never have done it myself, but I could probably figure it out. I watched my dad give himself insulin 4 times a day for 30 years so it would be easy enough to do. I'd rather not though.

    I don't mind going in and getting the needles though. I don't generally deal with a lot of people throughout the day, so going in to a pharmacy isn't a big deal like it would be for someone who just wants to go home and sit in quiet. It's nice to have some kind of an interaction with someone other than myself once in a while. It's only a 5 minute drive to get there. And I don't need to go any more often than every 14 days. I've been tested on day 7 and day 14, and my levels are still well above the low end of normal. It's not until day 16-18 where the effects of low testosterone start to affect me, and even then it's just hot flashes every few days. That's unpleasant but I can deal with that.

    If I needed a top up more often or if I wasn't able to get in to the pharmacy on day 14 I might consider the needles, but this is working alright for me.
    It's important to keep above a certain level for your test. But it is also very important to keep your levels steady. The longer you go between shots, the lower the dips you'll have in your levels. If you feel it's more annoyance than it's worth, that's a personal decision. But just to share some awareness, you would likely feel better with more frequent shots.




    Quote Originally Posted by birdman86 View Post
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    If test shows low estrogen, might get asked to try treating that first i.e. clomiphene. Probably ask nicely to skip this and go straight to depo?
    If estrogen is low, you likely would not be prescribed an anti estrogen like Clomid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Misterman View Post
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    It's important to keep above a certain level for your test. But it is also very important to keep your levels steady. The longer you go between shots, the lower the dips you'll have in your levels. If you feel it's more annoyance than it's worth, that's a personal decision. But just to share some awareness, you would likely feel better with more frequent shots.
    You might be right. I think I feel pretty much the same from day 1 to day 14. I know I definitely did not like doing it daily with the gel. Rather than having 1 or 2 low days in a 14 day period, I had 14 low days in a 14 day period. But that was gel, that was supposed to be an equivalent dose but maybe it wasn't. I don't know.

    I do know I have to battle a little with one of the pharmacists. Right from the word go she's been trying to get me down from 2mL to 1mL every 2 weeks. I feel good so I don't want to fuck with it, and the doctor agrees with me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Misterman View Post
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    I rotate glutes, quads, and shoulders

    Best place for needles if you're not covered, or if you just want access to supply, is this site here. Comes from Campbell River, so shipping is pretty quick.

    https://www.canadianmedsupplies.com/...?categoryId=21
    I get my pharmasist to just order me a box of each. It was VERY cheap and about half the price as the stuff from this site. A box of 100 1cc BD barrels and 100 25ga x 1" was $55.

    Quote Originally Posted by SKR View Post
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    You might be right. I think I feel pretty much the same from day 1 to day 14. I know I definitely did not like doing it daily with the gel. Rather than having 1 or 2 low days in a 14 day period, I had 14 low days in a 14 day period. But that was gel, that was supposed to be an equivalent dose but maybe it wasn't. I don't know.

    I do know I have to battle a little with one of the pharmacists. Right from the word go she's been trying to get me down from 2mL to 1mL every 2 weeks. I feel good so I don't want to fuck with it, and the doctor agrees with me.
    Which is a MAJOR benefit to self injections. You can adjust as you see fit and avoid every arm chair endo along the way.

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