Novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV/COVID-19)

[tirebob]

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All the anti-vaxxers I know are conservatives.

Most of the anti-vaxxers I know who think vaccinations are dangerous of left leaning. The ones who just disagree with it being mandatory but do not argue the science are right leaning.

[sabad66]

Years ago i would have definitely said anti vaxxers were more left leaning, but now it's quite mixed from what i see. The same alt-right people that are on FB pushing Qanon are also pushing bill gates vaccine conspiracies.

Arguably i think they are a class of their own and don't even really fit in with traditional right/left ideology.

[Buster]

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All the anti-vaxxers I know are conservatives.

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I don't think those visuals support your claim. At best, they paint a mixed picture.

It's just a data point, but probably a better one than "All the ones I know..."

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Years ago i would have definitely said anti vaxxers were more left leaning, but now it's quite mixed from what i see. The same alt-right people that are on FB pushing Qanon are also pushing bill gates vaccine conspiracies.

Arguably i think they are a class of their own and don't even really fit in with traditional right/left ideology.

There seems to be some support for the idea that the fastest growing segment of ant-vaxxers are far-right wackjobs. But it seems to be a far more accepted position in mainstream leftism than mainstream conservatives.

[A790]

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There seems to be some support for the idea that the fastest growing segment of ant-vaxxers are far-right wackjobs. But it seems to be a far more accepted position in mainstream leftism than mainstream conservatives.

Since when? Anti-vaxxers have never been accepted into mainstream anything, left or right. What changed and when?

[Buster]

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Since when? Anti-vaxxers have never been accepted into mainstream anything, left or right. What changed and when?

This is untrue and dangerous. In MANY parts of the US, nobody would consider it particularly unusual or non-mainstream to not have your kids vaccinated.

Dumb? Sure, but not unusual.

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https://babylonbee.com/news/public-s...-non-essential

lol

U.S.—Public school teachers gathered outside the schoolhouses of the nation this week, continuing to insist quite adamantly that their jobs are non-essential.

“We need to lockdown all non-essential work, like teaching, due to the coronavirus pandemic,” stated one teacher protesting outside her local elementary school. “What we do in the classroom is really not adding the kind of value to your children’s upbringing that we should risk spreading the virus.”

“If you look at the graduation rates, standardized test scores, and the studies that indicate public schools aren’t preparing students for the real world, believe me, we’re not doing your child any favors,” she added.

Another teacher holding a sign which read ‘Don’t Make Us Work!’ quickly chimed in, “But we should still be paid until there is a vaccine. People are suffering in this crisis, essential workers and non-essential workers alike, and we all just need to get through this together. God bless our essential workers.”

At publishing time, the protesters had ordered food delivery and more protesting supplies that arrived to them thanks to the hard work of actual essential workers.

[killramos]

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This is untrue and dangerous. In MANY parts of the US, nobody would consider it particularly unusual or non-mainstream to not have your kids vaccinated.

Dumb? Sure, but not unusual.

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https://babylonbee.com/news/public-s...-non-essential

lol

You must spread more covid around before giving it to Buster again...

[A790]

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This is untrue and dangerous. In MANY parts of the US, nobody would consider it particularly unusual or non-mainstream to not have your kids vaccinated.

Dumb? Sure, but not unusual.

Hang on, we are talking about ideologies vs. individuals, no? I am not aware of any left or right-leaning mainstream ideology that is on the anti-vaxx bandwagon. As far as I was aware, they are vilified on all sides of the spectrum from basically everybody who is not an anti-vaxxer.

So, I'm again failing to see how anti-vaxx is considered mainstream and, as we've established already, anecdotes are not particularly convincing.

[Tik-Tok]

It's almost as though people can't be summed as as either "Left" or "Right"

[LilDrunkenSmurf]

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It's almost as though people can't be summed as as either "Left" or "Right"

How dare you use your logic.

[A790]

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It's almost as though people can't be summed as as either "Left" or "Right"

The entire reason I commented in the first place is that @Buster et al love to throw the "the problem with lefites/woke/etc..." around like it's candy, and I find it very unconvincing.

The more somebody says LIEberal, CONservative, left/right/etc. (and all the related versions of it), the less important their point of view becomes. Even when that person is otherwise a well-adjusted, well-spoken, wealthy, and affluent individual. I just can't shake the mental image that the person on the other end of the screen is an angsty 14-year old.

[Buster]

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Hang on, we are talking about ideologies vs. individuals, no? I am not aware of any left or right-leaning mainstream ideology that is on the anti-vaxx bandwagon. As far as I was aware, they are vilified on all sides of the spectrum from basically everybody who is not an anti-vaxxer.

So, I'm again failing to see how anti-vaxx is considered mainstream and, as we've established already, anecdotes are not particularly convincing.

Well, we have two moving semantic targets here: how you define, leftists and how you define mainstream.

I would not consider the anti-vaxxer morons on the left to be way "out there" on the political spectrum. If you would prefer to make it a relative, I'm comfortable saying "more mainstream". The correlations to anti-vaxxer morons, disease outbreak locations, and overlay of voting patterns all support the notion that anti-vaxxers are "more mainstream" on the left.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/13/n...-new-york.html

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The entire reason I commented in the first place is that @Buster et al love to throw the "the problem with lefites/woke/etc..." around like it's candy, and I find it very unconvincing.

The more somebody says LIEberal, CONservative, left/right/etc. (and all the related versions of it), the less important their point of view becomes. Even when that person is otherwise a well-adjusted, well-spoken, wealthy, and affluent individual. I just can't shake the mental image that the person on the other end of the screen is an angsty 14-year old.

Fair enough, but ad hominems are also not a reason to be convinced by anything. I've often expressed by impatience for a left/right discussion, but it's also annoying to constantly let a conversation focus on the merits and weaknesses of linear political spectra. Left/Right is a weak proxy, but sometimes you have to use them to advance the discussion.

[Xtrema]

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So, I'm again failing to see how anti-vaxx is considered mainstream and, as we've established already, anecdotes are not particularly convincing.

Just remember that there are 17M Americans that think chocolate milk comes from brown cows.

[Misterman]

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COVID has exposed how antiquated and inefficient our public education system actually is. I would be quite worried if I was planning a career in public education at the moment.

If we figure out how to do all of this stuff without in-school, teacher driven methods, then parents and society are going to wonder why we do it. Teachers do not realize that despite all of the fumbling, the excellent solutions too this problem don't involve them. It's a be careful what you wish for - necessity is the mother of invention - and a re-invention of education would lead to a lot of disruption for the bureaucracy that currently delivers it.

I've been saying this for months. If there is one silver lining to this covid nonsense, it would be the education system realizing we can quit the class size debate and start running classes of 1000 kids, taught by one teacher over a webcam lesson( which could honestly be pre recorded lessons that don't require a teacher at all on a full time basis). Keep a few baby sitters on hand to act as chaperones and maintain order in the class. And if this type of education is available, a lot of people with the option might just decide to keep their kids home and school them there. This would alleviate a lot of cost from the bloated education system.

[The_Penguin]

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I don’t feel anyone is doubting that in class > online/remote, however were in different time’s right now, I’d like to see my daughter go back to in class but I know undoubtedly that there will be parents who will knowingly send their kids to school with active symptoms, whether that’s Covid or not doesn’t change the fact that some people out there are just shitty

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to adam c again.

[sabad66]

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Trump has another pathetic meltdown on camera. Worth a watch regardless of what your political beliefs are and its only ~3 minutes.

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/stat...429289473?s=20

Leader of the most powerful nation folks.

This is what happens when you only hire yes-men. The guy doesn't even know how bad it is in reality cuz everyone is too scared to give him any bad news.

Say all you want about Biden's mental capacity (and i agree with some of it), but at least the guy knows he isn't God-reincarnated and will hire people that know what they are doing who will actually tell him both good and bad news.

[The_Penguin]

I've been a card-carrying anti-liberal Conservative since the 70s and I'm as pro-vaccine as they come.

[msommers]

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Trump has another pathetic meltdown on camera. Worth a watch regardless of what your political beliefs are and its only ~3 minutes.

https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/stat...429289473?s=20

Leader of the most powerful nation folks.

Critical thinking is not required to be President. Pandering to an idiotic and/or corrupt yet powerful voting base is required to be President. That base as a result has global implications unfortunately.

[Buster]

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I've been a card-carrying anti-liberal Conservative since the 70s and I'm as pro-vaccine as they come.

You'll often see commentary around anti-vaccination, but with the surveys phrased as "should vaccination be mandatory...conservatives say no!!11!!". there is a big difference between being an anti-vaxxer and being someone who thinks that people should be forced to get them.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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You must spread more covid around before giving it to Buster again...

I'll take some. I am pretty sure my sweet new Pit Viper sunglasses have made me immune to it anyway.

[tirebob]

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You'll often see commentary around anti-vaccination, but with the surveys phrased as "should vaccination be mandatory...conservatives say no!!11!!". there is a big difference between being an anti-vaxxer and being someone who thinks that people should be forced to get them.

^^^This^^^