Professional Liability / Errors Omission Insurance?

[schurchill39]

Does anyone have any recommendations for professional liability and/or errors omission insurance in Canada? Or can help with explaining the difference between the two?

With APEGA's new regulations on document authentication I'm a bit worried what that means for liability on contractors and consultants like myself and am struggling to figure out what I need and what it costs. Most people I talk to are very anti APEGA so I haven't been able to have many productive conversations surrounding the subject. I get asked to do the random one off project from time to time outside of my industry so I want to make sure I'm covered for when ever those pop up.

[ThePenIsMightier]

I'll ask someone who should know next week.
APEGA's new "stamp fucking everything" policy shouldn't be increasing your risk. It's just formalizing and helping members realize they have responsibility for those items. But, they always did.
I'm not worried about someone building something that I stamped as Issued For Bid...

[ExtraSlow]

I think Toole Pete gave me a quote for them, back when I was asking for something completely different. I never did carry E&O coverage, but I also was careful to never practice engineering in the legal sense.

[killramos]

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I'll ask someone who should know next week.
APEGA's new "stamp fucking everything" policy shouldn't be increasing your risk. It's just formalizing and helping members realize they have responsibility for those items. But, they always did.
I'm not worried about someone building something that I stamped as Issued For Bid...

I don’t even own a stamp. I’d actually be pretty ok if Apega decided I wasn’t a real engineer and take away my letters. I could care less these days.

[prae]

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I don’t even own a stamp. I’d actually be pretty ok if Apega decided I wasn’t a real engineer and take away my letters. I could care less these days.

Every year I pay my dues I think the same thing

[killramos]

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Every year I pay my dues I think the same thing

If I actually paid them myself I would likely feel far more strongly

[ExtraSlow]

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If I actually paid them myself I would likely feel far more strongly

Can confirm this.

[bjstare]

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If I actually paid them myself I would likely feel far more strongly

I haven't ever stamped something, and my company doesn't practice engineering as such. The day my company stops paying my dues, is the day I'm no longer a PEng.

[lasimmon]

Not to hijack the thread but rumblings are that all workover/completion/drilling/abandonment/whatever programs are supposed to be stamped now and follow the new dumb process APEGA came out with. Any truth to that?

[killramos]

Dunno, did anyone read the document authentication standards bs?

[lasimmon]

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Dunno, did anyone read the document authentication standards bs?

I watched the video/did the online thing. Was a waste of time.

[ExtraSlow]

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Not to hijack the thread but rumblings are that all workover/completion/drilling/abandonment/whatever programs are supposed to be stamped now and follow the new dumb process APEGA came out with. Any truth to that?

I think they were always supposed to be "authenticated" by a Peng.

[JPB]

I'm with Toole Peet, they found me quotes from three different underwriters and I went with CFC. I have $2MM of E&O and professional liability for around $4k a year. The policy also covers my general liability and a ton of other stuff like cyber attacks. It was a real eye opener setting this up and learning about everything.

My agent was pretty good at answering my questions and guiding me through the process. I have to carry it for the type of work I do, so I built a few bucks an hour into my rate to pay for it.

[ExtraSlow]

Toole Peet was very helpful for answering questions for me. good service there. Never set foot in the office, which was pretty rare back in the day.

[pheoxs]

Has anyone paused their APEGA membership before? I quit my day job and am running my own startup. Don't need to stamp anything and/or my business won't be licensed.

Curious what the ramifications are and if its worth it or better to just keep paying the dues. I still do enough continuing education to keep up on the development hours. Just curious if its as easy as pausing/starting or if its a process to get re-activated.

Or on the opposed end of the spectrum would it be worth it to try and get my business licensed?

[killramos]

I worry that they would try and declare you as no longer fit to practice and ask you to write the FE or something.

[ExtraSlow]

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Has anyone paused their APEGA membership before? I quit my day job and am running my own startup. Don't need to stamp anything and/or my business won't be licensed.

Curious what the ramifications are and if its worth it or better to just keep paying the dues. I still do enough continuing education to keep up on the development hours. Just curious if its as easy as pausing/starting or if its a process to get re-activated.

They have the unadvertised "unemployed" option, which I think is halfway decent value. 25% or something? Also, the website is wrong, you can do this two years in a row.
https://www.apega.ca/members/dues/dues-reduction

[schurchill39]

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Not to hijack the thread but rumblings are that all workover/completion/drilling/abandonment/whatever programs are supposed to be stamped now and follow the new dumb process APEGA came out with. Any truth to that?

The way I read the regulations I think a that any programs that direct work or contain technical information will definitely need to be stamped. This is for sure the case if they are prepared by an engineer, or within a group that has a permit to practice. That is essentially why I went down this rabbit hole because its a big part of what I do for a living. I am already seeing vendors send over technical documents that are stamped to shit, and a few of my larger clients have started stamping their programs to stay in line with the regulations. That being said I don't think any of us are under the impression that most of what we do is "real engineering" (in regards to writing programs) which is why its never really been done before. I don't see how having a program stamped vs not stamped would effect chargeable rates for consultants because I doubt most clients would care to pay more just because the guy (or gal) writing the program has a few letters after their name. However, I admit I am pretty soft and the threat of maybe losing my ability to practice has got me worried.

Thanks all for the replies so far. It sounds like Toole Pete is going to get a call from me in the new year.

[ExtraSlow]

Just email them, you are too young and good looking for the telephone.

On a only kinda related note, if I advise people in Texas on casing design, should I stamp that advice? Asking for a friend.

[ExtraSlow]

Agree 100%. Always thought this.