Do you get the flu shot? 2018 edition

[ExtraSlow]

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Haha, you guys haven't tried IMS have you?

Have had this dozens of times. Usually Flu shot soreness is much less. But you expect the IMP to cause soreness.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Haha, you guys haven't tried IMS have you?

Anytime a needle penetrates through your muscle tissue like that, it will be pretty damn soar for a few days. Probably just tougher back when you didn't notice it as much haha.

I had that on my calves, back, and hamstrings, and it's honestly one of the most painful things I have ever experienced. It was so bad I stopped doing it - just not worth it. Most of the pain was during though - afterwards it wasn't too bad.

[Misterman]

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It is honestly unbelievable to me the amount of people I know who think the flu shot gave them the flu, or say something like "well I didn't get it last year and I didn't get sock" and then when presented with scientific/medical evidence they don't change their habits. These same people also don't understand it's not necessarily for their protection but for people with weak immune systems (elderly, children, sick people, etc.) Very selfish.

Also, I think a lot of people think they have the flu when really they have a cold, so they may think they either got sick from the flu shot (literally impossible) or they got a cold around the same time (it takes a while for the fly shot to become active) and think it's the flu from the flu shot. Further, there are different strains of the flu (the shot is a guess every year of which strains will be most prevalent) - so you still can get it, it's just far less likely and you didn't get it from the shot.

Get your flu shots people! Your anecdotal evidence about that one time you didn't get sick when you didn't get the shot is not medical science.

Why would I want to guarantee myself getting flu "symptoms" by getting the shot, when I can just wash my hands regularly and maybe get the flu once every 15 years anyway? There's no positive consequence to getting the flu shot, but there is guaranteed negative consequences. It's not hard to see why people don't get it. Especially when the shot is nothing more than a guess on what the prevalent strains will be, leaving you with a false sense of security that can lead to less diligent hygiene routines that increase your chance of passing the flu on to others anyway.

[sabad66]

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Why would I want to guarantee myself getting flu "symptoms" by getting the shot, when I can just wash my hands regularly and maybe get the flu once every 15 years anyway? There's no positive consequence to getting the flu shot, but there is guaranteed negative consequences. It's not hard to see why people don't get it. Especially when the shot is nothing more than a guess on what the prevalent strains will be, leaving you with a false sense of security that can lead to less diligent hygiene routines that increase your chance of passing the flu on to others anyway.

1. you don't get guaranteed "symptoms" by getting the shot
2. umm, the positive consequence of a flu shot is that you are immune to the flu strains that were in the shot. yes it's a best guess on what strains will be rampant that year, but certainly your statement of "no positive consequences" for the flu shot is bullshit.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Why would I want to guarantee myself getting flu "symptoms" by getting the shot, when I can just wash my hands regularly and maybe get the flu once every 15 years anyway? There's no positive consequence to getting the flu shot, but there is guaranteed negative consequences. It's not hard to see why people don't get it. Especially when the shot is nothing more than a guess on what the prevalent strains will be, leaving you with a false sense of security that can lead to less diligent hygiene routines that increase your chance of passing the flu on to others anyway.

Your first sentence is already completely false - do yourself and those around you a favor and educate yourself on the topic from proper sources.

Most importantly, you are not just protecting yourself.

I've never had flu symptoms in my life from the flu shot, so there goes that argument. It's not even common, much less "guaranteed" that an individual will experience mild flu-like symptoms for a short period of time. The only common side effect is minor soreness for 1-2 days where you got the shot in the muscle. If you refuse to educate yourself on the topic with objective sources, then that is your prerogative.

If you honestly believe there is "no positive consequence", you are ignoring overwhelming medical science and if that is the type of person you are, nothing anyone can say is going to change your mind and that is sad. Maybe you should write a peer reviewed article letting the medical community know they are wasting their time developing flu shots - they must not know that there is literally no positive consequence. Pass it around to all the immuno-compromised children, pregnant women, and elderly folks too for a read, they have also also likely been misinformed by their doctors.

From the CDC:

Why do some people not feel well after getting the seasonal flu vaccine?
Some people report having mild reactions to flu vaccination. The most common side effects from flu shots are soreness, redness, tenderness or swelling where the shot was given. Low-grade fever, headache and muscle aches also may occur. If these reactions occur, they usually begin soon after the shot and last 1-2 days. In randomized, blinded studies, where some people get inactivated flu shots and others get salt-water shots, the only differences in symptoms was increased soreness in the arm and redness at the injection site among people who got the flu shot. There were no differences in terms of body aches, fever, cough, runny nose or sore throat.

HealthLink:

Myth: The influenza vaccines cause severe reactions or side effects.

Fact: The influenza vaccines are safe. Most people who get the flu shot only have redness, soreness or swelling where the vaccine was given.

From the Mayo Clinic:

Who should get the flu vaccine?
The CDC recommends annual influenza vaccinations for everyone age 6 months or older. Vaccination is especially important for people at high risk of influenza complications, including:

Pregnant women
Older adults
Young children
Children between 6 months and 8 years may need two doses of the flu vaccine, given at least four weeks apart, to be fully protected. A 2017 study showed that the vaccine significantly reduces a child's risk of dying from the flu. Check with your child's health care provider.

Chronic medical conditions also can increase your risk of influenza complications. Examples include:

Asthma
Cancer or cancer treatment
Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)
Cystic fibrosis
Diabetes
HIV/AIDS
Kidney or liver disease
Obesity
Who shouldn't get a flu shot?
Check with your doctor before receiving a flu vaccine if:

You're allergic to eggs. Most types of flu vaccines contain a small amount of egg protein. If you have a mild egg allergy — you only get hives from eating eggs, for example — you can receive the flu shot without any additional precautions. If you have a severe egg allergy, you should be vaccinated in a medical setting and be supervised by a doctor who is able to recognize and manage severe allergic conditions.

There are also flu vaccines that don't contain egg proteins, and are Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved for use in people age 18 and older. Consult your doctor about your options.

You had a severe reaction to a previous flu vaccine. The flu vaccine isn't recommended for anyone who had a severe reaction to a previous flu vaccine. Check with your doctor first, though. Some reactions might not be related to the vaccine.

[Misterman]

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1. you don't get guaranteed "symptoms" by getting the shot
2. umm, the positive consequence of a flu shot is that you are immune to the flu strains that were in the shot. yes it's a best guess on what strains will be rampant that year, but certainly your statement of "no positive consequences" for the flu shot is bullshit.

Yes I do. But feel free to be angry by pretending I said it about everyone else.

So the positive consequence of the flu shot can be no different than not getting the flu shot. Doesn't exactly equate to solid logic for getting the flu shot.

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Your first sentence is already completely false - do yourself and those around you a favor and educate yourself on the topic from proper sources.

Most importantly, you are not just protecting yourself.

I've never had flu symptoms in my life from the flu shot, so there goes that argument. It's not even common, much less "guaranteed" that an individual will experience mild flu-like symptoms for a short period of time. The only common side effect is minor soreness for 1-2 days where you got the shot in the muscle. If you refuse to educate yourself on the topic with objective sources, then that is your prerogative.

If you honestly believe there is "no positive consequence", you are ignoring overwhelming medical science and if that is the type of person you are, nothing anyone can say is going to change your mind and that is sad. Maybe you should write a peer reviewed article letting the medical community know they are wasting their time developing flu shots - they must not know that there is literally no positive consequence. Pass it around to all the immuno-compromised children, pregnant women, and elderly folks too for a read, they have also also likely been misinformed by their doctors.

From the CDC:

Why do some people not feel well after getting the seasonal flu vaccine?
Some people report having mild reactions to flu vaccination. The most common side effects from flu shots are soreness, redness, tenderness or swelling where the shot was given. Low-grade fever, headache and muscle aches also may occur. If these reactions occur, they usually begin soon after the shot and last 1-2 days. In randomized, blinded studies, where some people get inactivated flu shots and others get salt-water shots, the only differences in symptoms was increased soreness in the arm and redness at the injection site among people who got the flu shot. There were no differences in terms of body aches, fever, cough, runny nose or sore throat.

HealthLink:

Myth: The influenza vaccines cause severe reactions or side effects.

Fact: The influenza vaccines are safe. Most people who get the flu shot only have redness, soreness or swelling where the vaccine was given.

From the Mayo Clinic:

Who should get the flu vaccine?
The CDC recommends annual influenza vaccinations for everyone age 6 months or older. Vaccination is especially important for people at high risk of influenza complications, including:

Pregnant women
Older adults
Young children
Children between 6 months and 8 years may need two doses of the flu vaccine, given at least four weeks apart, to be fully protected. A 2017 study showed that the vaccine significantly reduces a child's risk of dying from the flu. Check with your child's health care provider.

Chronic medical conditions also can increase your risk of influenza complications. Examples include:

Asthma
Cancer or cancer treatment
Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)
Cystic fibrosis
Diabetes
HIV/AIDS
Kidney or liver disease
Obesity
Who shouldn't get a flu shot?
Check with your doctor before receiving a flu vaccine if:

You're allergic to eggs. Most types of flu vaccines contain a small amount of egg protein. If you have a mild egg allergy — you only get hives from eating eggs, for example — you can receive the flu shot without any additional precautions. If you have a severe egg allergy, you should be vaccinated in a medical setting and be supervised by a doctor who is able to recognize and manage severe allergic conditions.

There are also flu vaccines that don't contain egg proteins, and are Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved for use in people age 18 and older. Consult your doctor about your options.

You had a severe reaction to a previous flu vaccine. The flu vaccine isn't recommended for anyone who had a severe reaction to a previous flu vaccine. Check with your doctor first, though. Some reactions might not be related to the vaccine.

I didn't say you get the flu from getting the flu shot. Maybe YOU don't experience any negative side effects from it, but quite a few other people do. Which is exactly in line with how vaccines work if you want to start talking about getting educated. You're initiating an immune system response to the flu, it is perfectly normal to experience mild flu like symptoms.

Maybe once I have someone with compromised or weak immune system that I interact with regularly, like a new baby or elderly family, then I will go back to getting the flu shot. Ironically one of the 2 times in my life that I've had the flu, was when I got the flu shot.

Feel free to do whatever you please with your own body, I don't judge anyone for getting something completely unnecessary. I choose not to, it's a flu shot discussion so I was discussing. No need to argue with nonsense as if I just said the earth was flat. If you're so passionate about flu prevention you should become more of a proponent of hand sanitizer than the flu shot, it has a just as good or better of a track record.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Yes I do. But feel free to be angry by pretending I said it about everyone else.

So the positive consequence of the flu shot can be no different than not getting the flu shot. Doesn't exactly equate to solid logic for getting the flu shot.

You said they were "guaranteed". Mild symptoms that dissipate in a day or two is not the same as contracting the flu.

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I didn't say you get the flu from getting the flu shot.

Nobody did, so why are you bringing it up? Flu like symptoms and the flu are not the same thing.

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Maybe YOU don't experience any negative side effects from it, but quite a few other people do. Which is exactly in line with how vaccines work if you want to start talking about getting educated. You're initiating an immune system response to the flu, it is perfectly normal to experience mild flu like symptoms.

You were the one who said they were "guaranteed" and now you're trying to move the goal posts to sound less crazy. The people who may experience mild symptoms for a short period of time are not a majority.

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Maybe once I have someone with compromised or weak immune system that I interact with regularly, like a new baby or elderly family, then I will go back to getting the flu shot. Ironically one of the 2 times in my life that I've had the flu, was when I got the flu shot.

You don't need to interact with someone to pass along the flu, nor can you possibly know the medical history of everyone around you. The fact that you keep regurgitating myths and haven't a clue how the flu can be transmitted is not helping your case.

So you are changing your story now and saying that it does something - which is it? "No positive consequence" which is verbatim what you stated previously, or something you would get if you started to interact with a new baby or elderly family member? Not endangering a high risk group sounds like a positive thing to me.

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Feel free to do whatever you please with your own body, I don't judge anyone for getting something completely unnecessary. I choose not to, it's a flu shot discussion so I was discussing. No need to argue with nonsense as if I just said the earth was flat. If you're so passionate about flu prevention you should become more of a proponent of hand sanitizer than the flu shot, it has a just as good or better of a track record.

Again, it's not just for you. You have acknowledged this yourself above.

Can you please link us to these articles detailing how the flu shot is "completely unnecessary" or "nonsense"? Surely you have seen such information before forming the opinions you have. A lot of what you're saying goes directly against medical science, so I think it's reasonable to ask you to provide your sources that agree there are "no positive consequences" to the "completely unnecessary" flu shot.

[A790]

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Why would I want to guarantee myself getting flu "symptoms" by getting the shot, when I can just wash my hands regularly and maybe get the flu once every 15 years anyway? There's no positive consequence to getting the flu shot, but there is guaranteed negative consequences. It's not hard to see why people don't get it. Especially when the shot is nothing more than a guess on what the prevalent strains will be, leaving you with a false sense of security that can lead to less diligent hygiene routines that increase your chance of passing the flu on to others anyway.

lol you know that feeling you get when someone says something so undeniably stupid that you just want to engage them to see if they'll continue their stupidity?

For me, that's who you are today.

Welcome to beyond <3

[Misterman]

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You said they were "guaranteed". Mild symptoms that dissipate in a day or two is not the same as contracting the flu.




Nobody did, so why are you bringing it up? Flu like symptoms and the flu are not the same thing.




You were the one who said they were "guaranteed" and now you're trying to move the goal posts to sound less crazy. The people who may experience mild symptoms for a short period of time are not a majority.



You don't need to interact with someone to pass along the flu, nor can you possibly know the medical history of everyone around you. The fact that you keep regurgitating myths and haven't a clue how the flu can be transmitted is not helping your case.

So you are changing your story now and saying that it does something - which is it? "No positive consequence" which is verbatim what you stated previously, or something you would get if you started to interact with a new baby or elderly family member? Not endangering a high risk group sounds like a positive thing to me.



Again, it's not just for you. You have acknowledged this yourself above.

Can you please link us to these articles detailing how the flu shot is "completely unnecessary" or "nonsense"? Surely you have seen such information before forming the opinions you have. A lot of what you're saying goes directly against medical science, so I think it's reasonable to ask you to provide your sources that agree there are "no positive consequences" to the "completely unnecessary" flu shot.

I see you enjoy arguing for sake of arguing. I do not. So we can ignore your semantics arguing above due to confusion about what I said.

About the flu vaccine. Can you provide any links or evidence that the flu shot is necessary? Of course you cannot, because it isn't. No links required for this. Have you ever not received the shot, and then NOT contracted the flu? Of course, we all have, probably multiple different years or none of us would've survived our childhood. I realize you might be of the opinion that it is a good idea based on whatever logic you use to form your opinions. You're entitled to that. My opinion is different, to which I even described my logic showing it is sound. Nobody said you had to agree, and I never said you shouldn't get the shot. You're the only one here telling others what to do. All I was doing was showing there is more to it than your Helen Lovejoy attitude.

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lol you know that feeling you get when someone says something so undeniably stupid that you just want to engage them to see if they'll continue their stupidity?

For me, that's who you are today.

Welcome to beyond <3

Oh good. A forum full of trolls. Should be great times.

[ExtraSlow]

There's no chance you are new here. What was your old user name?

[J-hop]

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I see you enjoy arguing for sake of arguing. I do not. So we can ignore your semantics arguing above due to confusion about what I said.

About the flu vaccine. Can you provide any links or evidence that the flu shot is necessary? Of course you cannot, because it isn't. No links required for this. Have you ever not received the shot, and then NOT contracted the flu? Of course, we all have, probably multiple different years or none of us would've survived our childhood. I realize you might be of the opinion that it is a good idea based on whatever logic you use to form your opinions. You're entitled to that. My opinion is different, to which I even described my logic showing it is sound. Nobody said you had to agree, and I never said you shouldn't get the shot. You're the only one here telling others what to do. All I was doing was showing there is more to it than your Helen Lovejoy attitude.

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Oh good. A forum full of trolls. Should be great times.

CDC actually has all the stats you’re asking for.

On an individual level I get what you’re saying, some will never get the flu, some will never need a shot, so it could appear unnecessary to some. But the evidence is essentially irrefutable that a positive prediction of the strain results in a drastically lower prevalence in immunized populations. I think people are reacting the way they are as your logic doesn’t appear to have a strong leg to stand on and all statistics and scientific evidence refute your opinion.

It’s fine to have the opinion you have. But that doesn’t mean your opinion should be immune to legitimate criticism

[Misterman]

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There's no chance you are new here. What was your old user name?

?? Never been here before.

[Misterman]

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CDC actually has all the stats you’re asking for.

On an individual level I get what you’re saying, some will never get the flu, some will never need a shot, so it could appear unnecessary to some. But the evidence is essentially irrefutable that a positive prediction of the strain results in a drastically lower prevalence in immunized populations. I think people are reacting the way they are as your logic doesn’t appear to have a strong leg to stand on and all statistics and scientific evidence refute your opinion.

It’s fine to have the opinion you have. But that doesn’t mean your opinion should be immune to legitimate criticism

That's interesting, I actually wasn't able to find any statistics that would confirm or deny the requirement for a flu shot. Lots of stats about how many people get the flu, how many people die from the flu, but nothing indicating likelihood of contracting the flu with vs without flu shot. And even if there was access to that sort of statistic, there would still be no statistic about whether proper hygiene was followed by people who did contract the flu. I'm not refuting the fact that the flu shot most likely decreases instances of flu, there just isn't any evidence supporting that it is any more effective than vigorous hygiene.

I'm very open to criticism, but when people use opinion based statistics to form their opinions, they will be subject to criticism as well. And hey, if someone wants to get a flu shot because feelings that's all fine and dandy. But don't act like anyone who doesn't get the shot themselves is an evil genocidal maniac. Some people get on this ignorant judgmental high horse and try to lump anyone who doesn't get a flu shot in with Jenny Mccarthy.

[nzwasp]

I wish they had offered the flu shot earlier in October, my whole family has the flu at the moment, I seem to be patient zero and im in recovery, my wife and youngest got it next and now my oldest kid has it. The symptoms are pretty manageable except for my youngest daughter who cant have any medication other than advil/tylenol because shes too young.

[J-hop]

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That's interesting, I actually wasn't able to find any statistics that would confirm or deny the requirement for a flu shot. Lots of stats about how many people get the flu, how many people die from the flu, but nothing indicating likelihood of contracting the flu with vs without flu shot. And even if there was access to that sort of statistic, there would still be no statistic about whether proper hygiene was followed by people who did contract the flu. I'm not refuting the fact that the flu shot most likely decreases instances of flu, there just isn't any evidence supporting that it is any more effective than vigorous hygiene.

I'm very open to criticism, but when people use opinion based statistics to form their opinions, they will be subject to criticism as well. And hey, if someone wants to get a flu shot because feelings that's all fine and dandy. But don't act like anyone who doesn't get the shot themselves is an evil genocidal maniac. Some people get on this ignorant judgmental high horse and try to lump anyone who doesn't get a flu shot in with Jenny Mccarthy.

This exactly answers your question I believe: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm

I can google more stats if you’d like but googling similar topics to the title of that cdc link will net you a plethora of results.

I don’t think I’ve ever had the flu, at least in recent memory (20 years) but I’ve definitely been sick. My parents always enforced rigorous hygiene but I’ve still been unable to completely avoid getting colds so there is no intelligent reason to suggest that at least my level of hygiene could prevent me contracting the flu. I’d imagine you are in the exact same situation. Unless you’ve never got a cold, in which case I think you should apply to be part of a university study as your immune system is super human!

Hygiene will of course increase your chances of staying healthy, but flu shots will too, it’s not one or the other obviously.

[Misterman]

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This exactly answers your question I believe: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaccineeffect.htm

I can google more stats if you’d like but googling similar topics to the title of that cdc link will net you a plethora of results.

I don’t think I’ve ever had the flu, at least in recent memory (20 years) but I’ve definitely been sick. My parents always enforced rigorous hygiene but I’ve still been unable to completely avoid getting colds so there is no intelligent reason to suggest that at least my level of hygiene could prevent me contracting the flu. I’d imagine you are in the exact same situation. Unless you’ve never got a cold, in which case I think you should apply to be part of a university study as your immune system is super human!

Hygiene will of course increase your chances of staying healthy, but flu shots will too, it’s not one or the other obviously.

I've actually read that link. Same as what I mentioned above, obviously instances of flu decrease when the vaccine is given, but there is just no way to measure whether hygiene can be as effective. Personally I have had the flu twice in 36 years. Colds I used to get, but found out it had nothing to do with immune system and everything to do with our pathetic humidity up here in the dry cold winter. Got a humidifier and never had a problem since.

With flu shots it makes me feel like a bag of crap, so I choose to forego them. Like I said, if I'm going to feel like I got a mild flu anyway, I might as well just risk the unlikely event of getting the actual flu. Once I have a newborn around I'll just deal with the side effects. To each their own.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Same as what I mentioned above, obviously instances of flu decrease when the vaccine is given, but there is just no way to measure whether hygiene can be as effective.

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There's no positive consequence to getting the flu shot, but there is guaranteed negative consequences.

And the goal posts keep moving...

[tirebob]

I do actually agree with Misterman that proper hygiene is probably just as effective, if not more effective, than simply getting a shot that is hit and miss. I work directly with the public with the flu season being the time I am busiest with an absolutely massive amount of person to person contact, shaking hands etc with people all the time so I wash my hands probably a dozen times a day as well as sneezing into my arm rather than my hand etc. I have not had the flu in over 20 years. That is no scientific study by any means, but it works.

Does a flu shot decrease an individuals odds of catching the flu? Sure I can agree with that, but I totally feel it is unnecessary for most people and the severity and effect of the flu on society as a whole is incredibly overblown. Why is that? I am to cynical of the powers that be to have a rational discussion on the matter I think but until some super virus is running around wiping out a third of the population I will stick to my hygiene routine that works well for me.

[A790]

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I do actually agree with Misterman that proper hygiene is probably just as effective, if not more effective, than simply getting a shot that is hit and miss. I work directly with the public with the flu season being the time I am busiest with an absolutely massive amount of person to person contact, shaking hands etc with people all the time so I wash my hands probably a dozen times a day as well as sneezing into my arm rather than my hand etc. I have not had the flu in over 20 years. That is no scientific study by any means, but it works.

Does a flu shot decrease an individuals odds of catching the flu? Sure I can agree with that, but I totally feel it is unnecessary for most people and the severity and effect of the flu on society as a whole is incredibly overblown. Why is that? I am to cynical of the powers that be to have a rational discussion on the matter I think but until some super virus is running around wiping out a third of the population I will stick to my hygiene routine that works well for me.

Or you could do both? lol

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Or you could do both? lol

Exactly. Also the flu can be transmitted dozens of different ways - washing your hands and sneezing politely is only one part of it. Most importantly it is to help protect immunocompromised people such as children, the elderly, and people with illnesses. You do not even need to be in direct contact with these people to transmit. A good hygiene regime might be enough to help protect a healthy adult in some instances, but it is far from ideal.