Distracted driving ticket court case - did i win or lose?

[Ca_Silvia13]

Do they transcribe what is spoken in traffic court? My time spent in the court house you can always pay for transcripts for everything spoken on the mics.

[gwill]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Do they transcribe what is spoken in traffic court? My time spent in the court house you can always pay for transcripts for everything spoken on the mics.

Yes they do when court is in session. I dont think it records anything when the judge is not in the room so it wont have my conversation when I attempted to talk some sense into the prosecutor nor will it have the conversations between the prosecutor and the first appearances that were there.

[schurchill39]

Not surprising at all. I had a very similar situation (minus the yelling) in Medicine Hat when I was 16 and got into an accident for "unsafe passing on the left hand side" when a guy pulled out from the shoulder across two lanes of traffic into me. Before the trial the RCMP officer was a complete dick and the prosecutor basically that he was going to take me to the cleaners because I was young and needed to be taught a lesson. After I won the case in the Judge's ruling he tore a strip off of me for taking it to trial and that I shouldn't consider this a win as all I did was create a reasonable doubt in his mind but that doesn't mean I didn't do it. After the trial the RCMP officer was one of the nicest guys. Such a bizarre situation that I hope to never repeat. It sounds like you had it wayyy worse (agree that it sounds like Ponoka) which sucks.

+1 on filing a complaint over perjury.

[Mitsu3000gt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

+1 on filing a complaint over perjury.

Perjury is very difficult to prove as you need to prove intent and that the deception was deliberate. It also has to be done under oath, affidavit, etc. The officer could just say he didn't mean to lie, he remembered it differently, that was to the best of his recollection, had wrong notes, etc. Nothing would ever come of it in a million years, unfortunately, and even then I am sure the officer would be given leniency.

[gwill]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Perjury is very difficult to prove as you need to prove intent and that the deception was deliberate. It also has to be done under oath, affidavit, etc. The officer could just say he didn't mean to lie, he remembered it differently, that was to the best of his recollection, had wrong notes, etc. Nothing would ever come of it in a million years, unfortunately, and even then I am sure the officer would be given leniency.

I specifically asked all sorts of questions to prove perjury. For example I asked if he could be remembering things wrong. I asked if his version of events was 100% correct. I also asked if he didnt remember things clearly or was unsure of everything how should the question be answered. I gave the officer multiple attempts to say at any point that his testimony was perhaps not as he mentioned.

I then asked him to confirm his version of events did not happen as per the dash cam video. He agreed.

I'm not a lawyer but if I lodge a complaint I would hope my line of questioning would be enough to prove intent/perjury.

I'm open to hearing what type of question I should have asked if those wont be enough. Might have went too easy on him and should have asked why he lied... but the judge may not have liked that.

[revelations]

Holy shit - I was going to guess Pincher Creek or Ponoka -> there is something definitely wrong with that town and the traffic members there.

But perjury on a traffic stop testimony - is not (unfortunately) going to go anywhere in Canada. You would have to be dealing in a criminal case in order to have perjury claims looked into.

Also, the CP likes to put on a good act it sounds like. Yelling and shouting at the defendants is pure theatrics.

[msommers]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I specifically asked all sorts of questions to prove perjury. For example I asked if he could be remembering things wrong. I asked if his version of events was 100% correct. I also asked if he didnt remember things clearly or was unsure of everything how should the question be answered. I gave the officer multiple attempts to say at any point that his testimony was perhaps not as he mentioned.

I then asked him to confirm his version of events did not happen as per the dash cam video. He agreed.

I'm not a lawyer but if I lodge a complaint I would hope my line of questioning would be enough to prove intent/perjury.

I'm open to hearing what type of question I should have asked if those wont be enough. Might have went too easy on him and should have asked why he lied... but the judge may not have liked that.

File a complaint regardless. The whole thing stinks to high hell.

[Perfect Dark]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Holy shit - I was going to guess Pincher Creek or Ponoka -> there is something definitely wrong with that town and the traffic members there.

Coming home from Edmonton last year I saw an RC from Ponoka parked in the ditch on the far side of the overpass trying to catch people speeding as they crossed over it. While this wouldn't be out of the norm usually, this guy happened to be standing with one foot on his seat and the other on the window sill of his open door to try and get a better angle.

Odd bunch in Ponoka for sure.

[revelations]

Ponoka traffic members also sit on the overpass in fucking lawn chairs, with PCs lined up on the onramp, waiting for the next perp.

[Buster]

What are these shitholes going to do when we all have autonomous vehicles that don't speed.

[Maxt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What are these shitholes going to do when we all have autonomous vehicles that don't speed.

thought crime violation tickets for thinking about speeding.

[revelations]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What are these shitholes going to do when we all have autonomous vehicles that don't speed.

Thats not going to happen in 20 years - at least not until smart roads are implemented. Even the best estimators of road edge fail in snow/ice. A system similar to the cat-eyes on the roads (radar reflective) needs to be implemented first on all the edges and centre lines.

Even then the rural roads in most of AB means that you will always have a need for a manual-mode vehicle.

We will never reach 100% autonomous vehicles in the province - ever.

[Mitsu3000gt]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I specifically asked all sorts of questions to prove perjury. For example I asked if he could be remembering things wrong. I asked if his version of events was 100% correct. I also asked if he didnt remember things clearly or was unsure of everything how should the question be answered. I gave the officer multiple attempts to say at any point that his testimony was perhaps not as he mentioned.

I then asked him to confirm his version of events did not happen as per the dash cam video. He agreed.

I'm not a lawyer but if I lodge a complaint I would hope my line of questioning would be enough to prove intent/perjury.

I'm open to hearing what type of question I should have asked if those wont be enough. Might have went too easy on him and should have asked why he lied... but the judge may not have liked that.

Sounds like you did all the right things (I am also not a lawyer), but I would put money on nothing coming of it, unfortunately. No judge is going to slap an officer with a perjury charge from traffic court, though it sure would be nice if they would be held accountable for outright lying. Has that ever even happened before? Glad you got out of it, regardless - they are so many BS distracted diving tickets being handed out it seems.

I still think the best thing would be for officers to have to pay the ticket if the defendant proves their innocence. Clearly, that would never happen, but it would at least add some accountability and nobody would hand out tickets without being 100% sure.

[phil98z24]

Complain. Perjury is perjury. It doesn’t matter if it’s in a deposition, traffic court, or before the Supreme Court. Take it to the RCMP or the SolGen’s office. If what you’ve said is the complete account of it, then they’ve lied under oath and that’s not only criminal, but incredibly unethical and deceit is a surefire way to get canned from the profession.

None of us want those sorts of coppers out there interacting with the public and “upholding” the law, nor do we want them working with us. Get a complaint rolling on it.

[gwill]

@mitsu - I've actually had a police officer lie on the stand before during a different traffic ticket many years ago which is why I've got dash cams in my vehicle now.
@phil - i will be lodging a complaint. I've hit a few road blocks on getting the exact officers names to formalize a complaint. I've got one on the ticket which is easy but there were 2 officers in the car. The name of the second officer isnt on the ticket and my notes from the trial arent clear enough to know the name is 100% right.

So far the court house wont help me and the calls to the officers superiors havent been returned. I've even called the prosecutors office as a way to sort things out.

The rcmp office has pretended that they don't know who the one officers partner is. It seems no ones in a rush to help when you mention you want to be lodging a complaint against an officer and you need some help confirming some details.

[HiTempguy1]

Probably going directly to the station would help.

Unfortunately, this whole thing will be a struggle without the help of a lawyer. You should be able to get the court documents easy enough as they are public record. Even a paralegal or one of those "law help" services will probably get you rolling.

[nismodrifter]

keep us updated, very interested to see how this goes.

[msommers]

The transcript should have everyone in attendance.

[revelations]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Complain. Perjury is perjury. It doesn’t matter if it’s in a deposition, traffic court, or before the Supreme Court. Take it to the RCMP or the SolGen’s office. If what you’ve said is the complete account of it, then they’ve lied under oath and that’s not only criminal, but incredibly unethical and deceit is a surefire way to get canned from the profession.

None of us want those sorts of coppers out there interacting with the public and “upholding” the law, nor do we want them working with us. Get a complaint rolling on it.

Phil, in your opinion - perjury in a traffic court room - how much effort does the OP have to put into this and what are the potential results of a 3-5 year investigation with RCMP K Div brass?

For eg. I can see a member being reassigned and an official apology being issued - but the OP is out all his time and thousands in lawyer/legal fees.

Even then, does anything change? The RC's are still very much an old boys club - no matter how much LGBTQ press the HQ puts out in Ottawa.

[LUDELVR]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

He keeps telling people if they waste the courts time with a BS excuse that he will make an example of them. [/U][/B]

I would love for you to get ahold of him and let him know that you plan to do the same thing! Best of luck to you on this one but as it has been stated, I don't think any of those guys in Ponoka will do anything to help you and moreover, they will do everything they can to prevent you from being successful. It sounds like you might need to enlist in the expertise of a lawyer which means you will have to fork out some cash and this will end up being, how much will it be worth to stand up for your principles.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see these guys get what they deserve but people in positions of power also have the power to take advantage of those they are looking down on. Best of luck to you on this endeavour.