RCMP take over investigation of UCP 'irregular financial contributions' allegations

[Xtrema]

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From what I understand there is no evidence any of this actually occurred aside from BJ complaining and Snotley piling on?

Plenty of evidence in the leaked document and some people involved are coming forward.

https://www.elections.ab.ca/resource...isclosure-act/

Investigating complaints of breaches of the Act and consenting to prosecution, if warranted

Which is why it's in RCMP's hands, to be proven in court of course if charges are warranted.

The difference between Trudeau's scandal vs this one is that Trudeau's is ideological where Kenney's is legal. But I think this is Callaway's legal problem anyway, not Kenney's

I think it's sloppy. They should have sent Calloway to get instruction/consultancy by Manning Institute and they would have got away with it.

[HiTempguy1]

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Callaway hated BJ, and probably did run as a torpedo candidate but there isn’t any evidence this was actually a conspiracy cooked up by JK and the UCP, my understand is BJ just reaped what he sowed on this one.

Does it matter? Is any of that illegal?

It's kind of like the whole Trump/Russian collusion thing. Yea, there have been criminal charges, all related to tax/bank fraud, nothing to do with actual chargeable offences on Russian collusion. Same here, what they did was ethically dubious, but the charges are to campaign violations by one guy whose not involved anymore, not Kenney and the current crew.

Now, from a moral/ethical standpoint, I am upset about this. I would rather Brian Jean have won if he would have been a much more morally/ethically clean individual. But it's folly to play by the rules if the rules are being broken by the opposing team, so I'm not going to condemn Kenney (especially when he specifically didn't do anything).

[Xtrema]

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Does it matter? Is any of that illegal?

It is illegal but it doesn't matter because what I have said earlier.

"The Act is pretty clear that campaigns are allowed to share resources with one another, but they have to disclose it when they do," University of Alberta political scientist Jared Wesley said.

Wesley specifically pointed to a section of Alberta's Election Finances and Contributions Disclosure Act. It states that parties, constituency associations, candidates, and contestants can transfer goods and services to each other; the goods and services won't be considered contributions but the recipient must record the "source and amount."

He noted Callaway's final campaign return, which is publicly available online, does not disclose any services the campaign received from Kenney's campaign.

So this is how I expect this will go down. Callaway get slap with violation get penalize. And we will never hear about this again.

This is why Callaway is keeping his mouth shut. He got the most to lose on this whole scandal.

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Now, from a moral/ethical standpoint, I am upset about this. I would rather Brian Jean have won if he would have been a much more morally/ethically clean individual. But it's folly to play by the rules if the rules are being broken by the opposing team, so I'm not going to condemn Kenney (especially when he specifically didn't do anything).

It's your prerogative if you think someone as controlling and calculating as Kenney "didn't do anything" in this whole scandal. But it's the only way out for him.

Like I said, there are enough posts on this thread to warrant my claim that Kenney literally have to kill someone and get caught to stop him from being our next premier. Because fake news.

[pheoxs]

https://twitter.com/aryan_sadat/stat...112082944?s=21

Look like some UCP members are resigning from the party over this

[lasimmon]

Whole lotta under estimating going on in this thread.

Literally the one thing people were afraid of Kenny about has now happened. I wouldn’t be shocked if the election is extremely close.

[Xtrema]

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https://twitter.com/aryan_sadat/stat...112082944?s=21

Look like some UCP members are resigning from the party over this

Won't be surprised if these people are sidelined by Kenney. Does Kenney care about NE? Lol.

And do you think they will stay home and watch NDP win to prove their point.

Edit: Of course UniteAlberta try to discredit Sadat immediately.
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4343101?__t...mpression=true

Also UCP say this is fake news
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...deny-1.5062076

This shit show is fun to watch now.

[kertejud2]

Might as well make this a general UCP problems thread:

UCP Candidate Complained ‘White Supremacist Terrorists’ Are Treated Unfairly, Leaked Messages Show

After PressProgress supplied her with copies of the messages, Ford did not deny authoring them but instead asked “who shared these statements with you?” Ford did not respond to subsequent e-mails asking if she intended to provide a statement or offer any additional context to her statements.

https://pressprogress.ca/ucp-candida...messages-show/

[Buster]

Her point about the double standard regarding Islamic terrorism vs white nationalist terrorism actually is valid. It is inconsistent to suggest bad ideas can cause bad actions in one case, but not the other.

Her comments about "replacement of white peoples" is, of course, deplorable. It's also an argument that is used in Canada with respect to aboriginal people every day, with noble but misguided intent.

Here I'll show you:

"I am somehow saddened by the demographic replacement of First Nations people in their homelands...because the loss of demographic diversity in the human race is sad. I think it is unlikely that aboriginal culture will survice without aboriginal people. Why would another race want to cast away their own culture to adopt someone else's on such a massive scale."

Very few good, noble, politically correct Canadian SJWs would complain about that statement. It's also a deplorable focus on race.

[kertejud2]

There hasn't been a focused mandate by the majority to eradicate white culture through force like there was with aboriginal culture, so to try and paint both with the same brush is, for lack of a better term, deplorable.

[Buster]

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There hasn't been a focused mandate by the majority to eradicate white culture through force like there was with aboriginal culture, so to try and paint both with the same brush is, for lack of a better term, deplorable.

White Nationalism is deplorable in areas where whites face persecution (for lack of a better term), also. Utilizing race to assign qualities to a person is the deplorable bit, regardless of which race or any other circumstance.

[kertejud2]

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White Nationalism is deplorable in areas where whites face persecution (for lack of a better term), also. Utilizing race to assign qualities to a person is the deplorable bit, regardless of which race or any other circumstance.

You're the only one who has been utilizing race to assign qualities to a person. You made up a statement you figure an 'SJW' would support, and that's it.

White's aren't facing persecution in Western countries, as much as you and your white nationalist buddies think they are. Meanwhile there was a government sponsored initiative to eradicate aboriginal culture that target and persecuted people based on race. You're just parroting white nationalist talking points and rhetoric.

[Buster]

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You're the only one who has been utilizing race to assign qualities to a person. You made up a statement you figure an 'SJW' would support, and that's it.

White's aren't facing persecution in Western countries, as much as you and your white nationalist buddies think they are.

I'm doing the opposite. You're being a typical SJW racist - you just think you can create a beneficial racist scenario, which then makes the racism acceptable. It's illogical and disgusting of you. Expected, but disgusting.

[kertejud2]

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I'm doing the opposite.

No you're not.

You tried to make it seem like a made up statement you made is somehow equatable to an actual statement made by a political candidate to try and downplay the latter. But you're also too dumb to realize how even if your made up statement was actually made by somebody, isn't actually equatable to the positions of white nationalists anyway because one side was actually persecuted and attempted to be replaced based on race, while white people in this country haven't been. You're trying to pretend like racism isn't a thing (or that if it is, we're all experiencing it equally, which is dumb). You don't think you're doing it because you're convinced you're smarter than that, but you are following the white nationalist rhetoric step by step.

[Buster]

I think you need to go back and read more carefully (no seriously, go do it). Also your attempted and, frankly, inelegant use of a straw man I find insulting - as if you think it wouldn't be obvious. Either you're being lazy, or you're just not as smart as you think you are. Over time I realize the latter is likely the case.

Anyhow, my point above couldn't be more clear: stupid logic is stupid logic regardless of where it is applied. I was not trying to bolster her opinion - I called it deplorable. I just think the same use of similar bankrupt logic in different contexts is equally stupid.

My opinions stem from a firm conviction that under the skin humans don't differ in any way that is relevant or important. Hardly the talking point of a white nationalist. So by sheer force of logic, any policy which might distinguish people based on race is nonsensical. It was nonsensical to use it to justify the pogroms against North American aboriginals during the darkest times of our history. It was nonsensical during the residential schools disaster. It has always been nonsensical. It will always be nonsensical. It was nonsensical when Ford said so above. It is also nonsensical when used to justify modern-day Canadian policy towards aboriginal people. Defying that the concept that we are all just the same under skin will not cure the sins of the past. It just perpetuates the deplorable notion that we can and should be distinguished because of race.

My deepest belief is that people have no important distinctions beyond the superficial. White nationalist? Take that nonsense elsewhere.

[dirtsniffer]

https://calgaryherald.com/news/local...orce-of-nature

Looks like corbella was wrong. Here is a puff piece written for the candidate. Some interesting quotes though.

No normal people will ever run for politics. Got that right.

[kertejud2]

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My opinions stem from a firm conviction that under the skin humans don't differ in any way that is relevant or important. Hardly the talking point of a white nationalist. So by sheer force of logic, any policy which might distinguish people based on race is nonsensical. It was nonsensical to use it to justify the pogroms against North American aboriginals during the darkest times of our history. It was nonsensical during the residential schools disaster. It has always been nonsensical. It will always be nonsensical. It was nonsensical when Ford said so above. It is also nonsensical when used to justify modern-day Canadian policy towards aboriginal people. Defying that the concept that we are all just the same under skin will not cure the sins of the past. It just perpetuates the deplorable notion that we can and should be distinguished because of race.

My deepest belief is that people have no important distinctions beyond the superficial. White nationalist? Take that nonsense elsewhere.

The reason a concentrated effort needs to be made to preserve aboriginal culture is because there was an active attempt to destroy it. Turning back and saying “yeah, sorry, we’d help re-build these bridges we burned down, but that would be racist” just doesn’t fly.

Similarly, trying to paint things that actually happened (residential school systems, relocation of people, general colonization and the violence that came with it) with stuff that isn’t (Ford’s comments) to justify not doing anything about the former just doesn’t fly either. By trying to pretend race doesn’t matter is to pretend racism doesn’t exist, which is “nonsensical.” Nobody would like people to stop focusing on race more than white nationalists because then you can ignore issues like systemic racism and maintain the status quo. Shift the issue from race (bad) to preserving culture (good) and it shifts the focus from ‘supremacy’ to ‘nationalism’ and also opens the door to attack people for their religion. Like I said, you’re following the playbook, even though you think you’re not. It stated when confronted with a political candidate using white nationalist rhetoric, you immediately deflected to something unrelated like how the government is being racist by catering to traditionally oppressed groups.



Anyways, Ford resigned.

[Misterman]

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The reason a concentrated effort needs to be made to preserve aboriginal culture is because there was an active attempt to destroy it. Turning back and saying “yeah, sorry, we’d help re-build these bridges we burned down, but that would be racist” just doesn’t fly.

Similarly, trying to paint things that actually happened (residential school systems, relocation of people, general colonization and the violence that came with it) with stuff that isn’t (Ford’s comments) to justify not doing anything about the former just doesn’t fly either. By trying to pretend race doesn’t matter is to pretend racism doesn’t exist, which is “nonsensical.” Nobody would like people to stop focusing on race more than white nationalists because then you can ignore issues like systemic racism and maintain the status quo. Shift the issue from race (bad) to preserving culture (good) and it shifts the focus from ‘supremacy’ to ‘nationalism’ and also opens the door to attack people for their religion. Like I said, you’re following the playbook, even though you think you’re not. It stated when confronted with a political candidate using white nationalist rhetoric, you immediately deflected to something unrelated like how the government is being racist by catering to traditionally oppressed groups.



Anyways, Ford resigned.

You sure like to pretend a lot of your opinions are facts. Whether or not you think there was an attempt to destroy aboriginal culture, does not mean that it needs to be preserved now. You can argue in support of it through affirmative action all you want, but it's still just your opinion. And your comment about re-building bridges, insinuates the only way to do that is through reverse racism as you have been advocating. Another short sighted opinion.

It's really ironic that people who claim to care about things like racism and ensuring people are treated fairly, always advocate for policies or ideas that ensure non-white races will be kept down in the long run.

[95EagleAWD]

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You sure like to pretend a lot of your opinions are facts. Whether or not you think there was an attempt to destroy aboriginal culture, does not mean that it needs to be preserved now. You can argue in support of it through affirmative action all you want, but it's still just your opinion. And your comment about re-building bridges, insinuates the only way to do that is through reverse racism as you have been advocating. Another short sighted opinion.

It's really ironic that people who claim to care about things like racism and ensuring people are treated fairly, always advocate for policies or ideas that ensure non-white races will be kept down in the long run.

I'd like to hear how it's "reverse racism" to help a culture that yes, we actively helped destroy, preserve itself? What BAD comes from helping native tribes preserve their traditions and cultures?

[kertejud2]

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You sure like to pretend a lot of your opinions are facts. Whether or not you think there was an attempt to destroy aboriginal culture, does not mean that it needs to be preserved now.

Who gets to decide that?

You can argue in support of it through affirmative action all you want, but it's still just your opinion. And your comment about re-building bridges, insinuates the only way to do that is through reverse racism as you have been advocating. Another short sighted opinion.

Yeah, nobody was advocating this.

The point is that lamenting the loss of white people’s homes and Western culture is not the same as aboriginal culture for the simple reason that there isn’t actually a targeted government effort to end white (er, Western) culture. There was for aboriginal culture. Therefore the two statements are not interchangeable because they have completely different contexts behind them.

It's really ironic that people who claim to care about things like racism and ensuring people are treated fairly, always advocate for policies or ideas that ensure non-white races will be kept down in the long run.

It’s also ironic that people who claim not to be racist care more about the unrelated treatment of First Nations to deflect from the actual racist comments of a conservative candidate.

[Buster]

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The reason a concentrated effort needs to be made to preserve aboriginal culture is because there was an active attempt to destroy it. Turning back and saying “yeah, sorry, we’d help re-build these bridges we burned down, but that would be racist” just doesn’t fly.

Similarly, trying to paint things that actually happened (residential school systems, relocation of people, general colonization and the violence that came with it) with stuff that isn’t (Ford’s comments) to justify not doing anything about the former just doesn’t fly either. By trying to pretend race doesn’t matter is to pretend racism doesn’t exist, which is “nonsensical.” Nobody would like people to stop focusing on race more than white nationalists because then you can ignore issues like systemic racism and maintain the status quo. Shift the issue from race (bad) to preserving culture (good) and it shifts the focus from ‘supremacy’ to ‘nationalism’ and also opens the door to attack people for their religion. Like I said, you’re following the playbook, even though you think you’re not. It stated when confronted with a political candidate using white nationalist rhetoric, you immediately deflected to something unrelated like how the government is being racist by catering to traditionally oppressed groups.

Your nonsense is the same flawed logic all SJWs use to create identify and race-based policies. Your main flaw is that you assume that an argument against your racism must also include racism. This is because white nationalists are using fire to fight fire in an argument where both sides are nonsensical. It's nonsense because no amount of history (good or bad) can change the fact that past basic superficiality we are all the same. It is impossible to justify white nationalist policies for the same reasons that it is impossible to justify ones you would consider "beneficial" to races you consider deserving of special treatment. You're just so used to thinking in terms of racial identity that you forget that people arguing against the concept of racial identity are simply not playing your game. White nationalist and racial-identity driven SJWs are making different versions of the same argument. I am not.

Also, don't confuse "race" and "culture". That's more racist nonsense. Culture is not embedded in genes. Honestly, SJW nonsense knows no bounds.

Also, the best way to combat white nationalism is to stop bolstering their argument that we should be aligning ourselves along racial lines. Either you think race should be used for making policy, or you do not. You and your acknowledgement that racial identity is a valid qualifier share far more with white nationalists than someone who understands that we're all the same under the skin.