Air Conditioning for my house

[BerserkerCatSplat]

I wouldn't pay $200 to go from 71db to 65db, forget $900.

[Tik-Tok]

Without hearing them side by side, installed on your house, you'll never know if it's worth it.

Going from a 58 dba generator to 53 dba was a significant difference to my ears.

[sabad66]

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I got a new quote and it looks like it's only $895 to go from the Elite EL16XC1 (71dB) to the Signature SL18XC1 (65dB) - do you guys think that's worth it? Would be about a 60% drop in noise if I am not mistaken, which at least on paper sounds significant. It's quite a bit cheaper than I was expecting so I am considering it now.

Do you have a direct line of sight from where your A/C is to your back yard where you hang out? if so quieter would be an improvement. But if it's on the side of your house and your back yard around the corner i don't think it's worth the extra $900.

[ExtraSlow]

Yeah, my take on AC noise is same as camping generator noise. You use those devices when it's nice weather and you are spending maximum time outdoors. And so are your neighbors.

I'm a guy who cheaped out on the AC many years ago, and regretted it, and more recently, paid a serious premium for an intra quiet Honda generator, and have been very pleased.

General rule of thumb is that 3db decrease is "fully noticeable".

[revelations]

Instead of dropping almost 1000$ on a quieter unit - has anyone tried the sound deadening pads?

[ExtraSlow]

Just reread what I wrote, and realised my $/hr for my air conditioner is like 1/100th or less than $/hr for my camping generator.

Are the quieter ones more or less efficient? That coukd factor in. I assume Alberta will get peak hours pricing for electricity within the lifespan of any unit bought today so....

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Do you have a direct line of sight from where your A/C is to your back yard where you hang out? if so quieter would be an improvement. But if it's on the side of your house and your back yard around the corner i don't think it's worth the extra $900.

Yeah I do - the placement of it is what has me thinking twice as it's not ideal:

1) It will literally be sitting beside (almost on) my patio slab, and my yard isn't big, so if the AC is running, anyone in the yard or sitting on the patio will be sitting only a couple feet away from it (unobstructed).
2) Our master bedroom window is directly above where the AC is going to go (however tall the second story is, that's how far away it is - maybe 10ft or so and unobstructed).
3) My neighbor's master bedroom window is also directly above where the AC has to go (just on his side obviously), and they don't have AC, so are more likely to open their windows at night. The last thing I want is to become a nuisance to the neighbor I share a wall with (duplex).
4) Just knowing me, I'm extremely picky and I feel like any noise will bother me, and I don't want to regret not going with the quieter model if it ends up bothering me.
5) It is going to be on brackets, so on the off chance there is a bit of vibration transfer, quieter will be better

Efficiency, warranty and reliability are not really concerns as both will be good enough regardless. Noise is pretty much all I care about. Originally I was told it would be $1500-2000 to go with the quieter model, but now that it's coming in at only $895 more I am strongly considering it.

It would be nice if there was somewhere you could go to hear all the different models running, but that isn't really an option so I need to make a decision on paper. I tried to find them on YouTube and it helped a bit but it's still really hard to make a judgement.

I guess at the end of the day my thinking is this is a major appliance that should last 10+ years, if for $900 I can get a noticeable improvement that will pay dividends for many years, that is easier to justify.

- - - Updated - - -

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Just reread what I wrote, and realised my $/hr for my air conditioner is like 1/100th or less than $/hr for my camping generator.

Are the quieter ones more or less efficient? That coukd factor in. I assume Alberta will get peak hours pricing for electricity within the lifespan of any unit bought today so....

Yes, they are, but not to the degree where there is huge savings over the mid-range models. If I was running it 24/7 I would care more about efficiency but for Calgary's 3-4-month cooling season I am less concerned about operating costs. The Elite series is up to 17 SEER and the Signature series is up to 18.5 SEER (on the models I am looking at). I think you get 10 years warranty on the rest of the unit too (not just the compressor) with the Signature models, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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Instead of dropping almost 1000$ on a quieter unit - has anyone tried the sound deadening pads?

I had the same thought, and it's a good idea I think, I just can't seem to find much info on it. I don't have a lot of room to work with either.

[sabad66]

If you could potentially be sitting only a few feet away from it i would definitely consider quieter if its in your budget. I would assume most people who said they don't notice the noise (including myself) have it relatively far away from primary lounging areas.

For sound deadening, i think they have some jackets you can put on them but it makes them less efficient and more prone to failure from what i've read in the past. Better to just pay for the quieter unit upfront IMO.

You are welcome to come listen to my Elite series in Sandstone NW if you think it would help. I honestly went through the same though processes and definitely would have liked to hear it in person. Luckily it worked out for my case and have no regrets.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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If you could potentially be sitting only a few feet away from it i would definitely consider quieter if its in your budget. I would assume most people who said they don't notice the noise (including myself) have it relatively far away from primary lounging areas.

For sound deadening, i think they have some jackets you can put on them but it makes them less efficient and more prone to failure from what i've read in the past. Better to just pay for the quieter unit upfront IMO.

You are welcome to come listen to my Elite series in Sandstone NW if you think it would help. I honestly went through the same though processes and definitely would have liked to hear it in person. Luckily it worked out for my case and have no regrets.

Yeah, that is my main concern and I totally agree that if it was going at the side of the house, probably a non-issue. In my case it will be roughly 2-10ft (depending on where people are sitting), unobstructed, away from anyone on the patio or in the yard, and about 10ft (unobstructed) from our bedroom window, and only a little further to the neighbors bedroom window. It would be going on the wall immediately on the other side of my mud room.

Even if I could put it at the side of my house, because it's a duplex I only have single-side access to my back yard, and a big AC unit there would almost completely block it off so I wouldn't be able to get by with the lawn mower or something like that.

Thanks for the offer - I will talk to my AC guy again and if I still can't make up my mind I might take you up on that. As you can probably tell though, I am trying to talk myself into the quieter unit because my gut tells me I'll be happier with it given the necessary placement location. Sometimes it just helps to talk it out haha.

I don't think I'd need it if I didn't have a West facing bedroom, but man that evening sun just bakes it. If it's 22C outside, our upstairs is around 26C, and the insulation is amazing so it keeps that heat in for a long time haha.

[Smokem]

Installed a Carrier SEER 14 71db 4 ton last year on brackets to the right of my garage adjacent to my mudroom and I can still hear it spin from inside the house (though not annoying). Newer build, 8ft between houses, fenced. Sounds like when your vent fan is going and can hear the fan go in addition to the furnace blowing the air. Went through the same exercise last year and figured for $500 to slim it down (still can walk past it) and be quieter, it was worth it. Honestly, I don't know how I would manage if it was any louder but that's me.

Edit - No vibration transfer either for me, and no windows in the mudroom or garage.

[TurboMedic]

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Also, for those of you what have brackets on the side of the house, does any vibration transfer into the house? I was surprised to see they don't seem to use any foam, rubber, or other dampening material on the brackets.

I took the screws holding my unit to the bracket out, and placed foam practice hockey pucks from canadian tire under the 4 corners and it works great. Nothing should cause the unit to shift off the brackets unless you hit it or push it really hard. I get alot of wind at my house and the unit hasn't moved in years

[ExtraSlow]

I should do that hockey puck trick, although I don't think vibes are my main issue.

[Mitsu3000gt]

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I took the screws holding my unit to the bracket out, and placed foam practice hockey pucks from canadian tire under the 4 corners and it works great. Nothing should cause the unit to shift off the brackets unless you hit it or push it really hard. I get alot of wind at my house and the unit hasn't moved in years

That's a good idea. I think I'll see how it is first, but if I can notice anything at all in terms of vibrations I will be attempting something like you did.

I'm surprised the brackets don't come lined with foam or rubber already. Either they think it's a non-issue, or they're too cheap haha. You'd think an "anti vibration kit" or something simple for $99.95 would be free profit for them on every install though.

[revelations]

Ours was put on a soft mad that matches the profile of the unit. Looks like concrete pad but its actually foam of some kind.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Thought I should provide an update in the hopes it helps someone else.

I pulled the data sheets and the Lennox Signature unit is absurdly large, about a 40 inch cube for the 3Ton. It unfortunately would not fit where I needed it to go, so I went with the Elite unit (about 30 X 35 inches). Also, after some further digging, the difference between the Elite and Signature in specifically the 3Ton configuration is only 3dB, not the 6dB the website implies (it compares the loudest variant of one vs. the quietest variant of the other). So, not only was it much larger, but it was not going to give nearly the sound reduction as I was originally led to believe. 3dB is the threshold where some people might be able to tell a difference in perceived noise, and others will not at all, so it didn't seem worth it there either. Turns out warranty is the same as well as long as I register the unit with Lennox.

It's installed on brackets into my house foundation and I don't notice any vibration. If I'm in my furnace room I can hear it kick in, but other than that it cannot be heard from inside the house at all. Outside the house it is about as loud as standing close to a microwave, so definitely noticeable, but you can stand right beside it and have a conversation without raising your voice above normal levels.

FWIW my installer also said he doesn't sell Carrier anymore, too many warranty calls and he still has units haunting him he installed up to 10 years ago with never ending service calls. Claims to have almost zero issues with the Lennox units and is what he uses himself. Anecdotal, but he is the installer for a builder so he does a lot of them.

If anyone was on the fence about A/C, just do it - it's life changing and I'm so glad I did it.

[dj_rice]

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I don't think I'd need it if I didn't have a West facing bedroom, but man that evening sun just bakes it. If it's 22C outside, our upstairs is around 26C, and the insulation is amazing so it keeps that heat in for a long time haha.

I'm having the same problem at my place. House was 25 all night when outside was much much cooler 21. Had bunch of windows open, 3 fans going. No temperature drop at all. Having the roof replaced next week, adding 2 more vents (7 total) to hopefully help with airing out attic and cooling it down. If that doesn't help, AC next year. Thinking of going through Costco

[Brent.ff]

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Had bunch of windows open, 3 fans going.

Which way are your fans facing? In, or out?

[Mitsu3000gt]

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I'm having the same problem at my place. House was 25 all night when outside was much much cooler 21. Had bunch of windows open, 3 fans going. No temperature drop at all. Having the roof replaced next week, adding 2 more vents (7 total) to hopefully help with airing out attic and cooling it down. If that doesn't help, AC next year. Thinking of going through Costco

We saw 29C in our bedroom since I posted that (pre-AC of course). It's an oven. That late evening sun just bakes it and you can feel the heat radiating off the windows/blinds like crazy.

I find too that if you open windows, even at the front & back to get a cross breeze going, if there is no wind or no pressure from a storm, you don't get much airflow through at all to pump that heat out. We set up fans too trying to pull cold air in, which helped a bit but not nearly enough to combat the heat coming in.

I will say that it's noticeably harder for the AC to reach upstairs, so if it's 18C on the main floor, it's 20-22C upstairs, so still a huge improvement but heat still rises.....I have my basement vents all closed to help push more air upstairs, and I run the circulation fan a lot to keep the cold air moving even when the AC isn't running and I find that also helps. I also turned off my in-slab heating in the basement so it stays pretty cool down there too.

My parents were going to get AC, did all the research and was about to pull the trigger but they needed new windows so they had triple panes installed, and that was enough for them to abandon their AC plan, but they don't have a West facing bedroom. They told me the warmest their house/bedroom gets is 23C which wasn't worth adding AC for them. Hopefully your scenario is similar after your upgrades!

Temperature aside, the air just feels better and fresher, and any mugginess/stuffiness upstairs (we sleep with the bedroom door closed) is also gone. Part of that is probably due to running the fans longer but it's very noticeable regardless.

[88CRX]

Windows open on main floor and windows open on upper floor with fans blowing the hot air out the upstairs windows. Works the best when there is no breeze like a couple nights ago.

Edit: We have triple glazed windows, keep the blinds closed during the day and our house doesn't actually get that bad. Rarely will the upstairs get above 23c and usually hovers around 20-22c. We also run the furnace fan at night once it starts to cool down.

Seeing inside temps at 29c is crazy! Are you guy keeping blinds open and/or cooking all day?

And dont open windows until its cooler outside then inside (obviously). Had a friend that left their windows open all day and couldn't understand why their house was always so hot.