Who's ran R compounds for daily driving?

[GTS Jeff]

I just want to hear your experiences, if you have any, with daily driving R compounds. As I look for replacements for my Kumho 712s, I realize that all tires are about compromise. So I'm thinking, well fuck it, I might as well get some insane grip. I can already imagine the advantages, but what about disadvantages?

I'm kinda thinking of getting the cheapest and longest lasting R compound available...what would that be, Toyo RA1? Advan A032R (hard)? And how are these things in the wet?

[kenny]

I drove with A032R's (hard) on the street alot when I had the SLK. Grip level is great in both wet and dry but I didn't push too much when it was wet out.

Only thing that did suck was the noise level on the street.

[tsi_neal]

You couldnt get me to daily drive R's if they were free...

Really the insane wear, high noise, and the constant fight to keep the vehicle in a straight line on uneven roads is only the start.

One of the bigger (biggest?) downfalls is that R's only have a certain number of heat cycles in them before they go off, and when they do go off youll get much better grip out of a top end street tire. So basically if you drive gentle on them youll kill them by heat cycling.

There is also the 'hey look what i can do with these tires' factor that WILL get you in trouble, if not with the cops, when you hit some shitty pavement or gravel. (and dont say you wont drive them hard cuz if you say that you need a severe slap for even considering running R's on the street)

You looking at the toyo's or the advans is about the only 2 tires available that would be durable enough for daily driving, but even then they wont last 1/2 as long as an actual super high end street tire. and then there is the grip of those two tires, it isnt much better than a top end street tire. (and thats before they get heatcycled too many times)

If i was you id look at whatever tires are winning the ST classes in the SCCA and pick up those, they are a bonafied street tire that will last, do well in the rain, not die from heat cycling, and are proven to perform very very well.

And for what its woth kumho 712s are a cheesy tire, compared to a kumhoMX they drive like an all season, and MX's arent even that good anymore.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by kenny
I drove with A032R's (hard) on the street alot when I had the SLK. Grip level is great in both wet and dry but I didn't push too much when it was wet out.

Only thing that did suck was the noise level on the street.

Well I can say I'm pretty used to noise and insane vibrations...

Originally posted by tsi_neal
You couldnt get me to daily drive R's if they were free...

Really the insane wear, high noise, and the constant fight to keep the vehicle in a straight line on uneven roads is only the start.

One of the bigger (biggest?) downfalls is that R's only have a certain number of heat cycles in them before they go off, and when they do go off youll get much better grip out of a top end street tire. So basically if you drive gentle on them youll kill them by heat cycling.

There is also the 'hey look what i can do with these tires' factor that WILL get you in trouble, if not with the cops, when you hit some shitty pavement or gravel. (and dont say you wont drive them hard cuz if you say that you need a severe slap for even considering running R's on the street)

You looking at the toyo's or the advans is about the only 2 tires available that would be durable enough for daily driving, but even then they wont last 1/2 as long as an actual super high end street tire. and then there is the grip of those two tires, it isnt much better than a top end street tire. (and thats before they get heatcycled too many times)

If i was you id look at whatever tires are winning the ST classes in the SCCA and pick up those, they are a bonafied street tire that will last, do well in the rain, not die from heat cycling, and are proven to perform very very well.

And for what its woth kumho 712s are a cheesy tire, compared to a kumhoMX they drive like an all season, and MX's arent even that good anymore.

Hmmm well I am just exploring my options here for getting a ton of grip for street driving. Of course, my main reason for wanting grippier tires is to drive like a bigger dink than I already do...

I hear what you're saying about expensive street tires being similar to entry level R compounds...but what about cost? Would it really be worth it to shell out a million bucks for the top of the line street tires when Toyo RA1s can be had for fairly cheap?

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff


Well I can say I'm pretty used to noise and insane vibrations...


Hmmm well I am just exploring my options here for getting a ton of grip for street driving. Of course, my main reason for wanting grippier tires is to drive like a bigger dink than I already do...

I hear what you're saying about expensive street tires being similar to entry level R compounds...but what about cost? Would it really be worth it to shell out a million bucks for the top of the line street tires when Toyo RA1s can be had for fairly cheap?

For a given size you will spend more on the toyo's than a kumo MX. Umm i cant really give you an idea for other tires but you wont be saving any significant amount of money for most brands of tire. And then when you wear them out in half the time you really wont save...

And for the record im not about to judge people on the way they drive as long as they are smart about it. Because of course ive never taken a corner hard that wasnt at the track, nor have i gone driving on the street with some R's for shits and giggles

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by tsi_neal



For a given size you will spend more on the toyo's than a kumo MX. Umm i cant really give you an idea for other tires but you wont be saving any significant amount of money for most brands of tire. And then when you wear them out in half the time you really wont save...

And for the record im not about to judge people on the way they drive as long as they are smart about it. Because of course ive never taken a corner hard that wasnt at the track, nor have i gone driving on the street with some R's for shits and giggles

True...I never really did consider the heat cycling problem until you mentioned it. I just can't see spending $200/tire on 14" or 15" tires as "worth it", especially when I'll be driving the shit out of them and they won't last longer than a season or 2.

I know my 712s don't offer much grip, but at least I can sleep at night knowing that I can bag the unholy hell out of them and they only cost something like $75/tire.

[finboy]

i know a guy who ran them on a turbo dodge, don't expect them to last too long on the street if you drive hard

[b_t]

Why not look into Goodyear Eagle F1s... those tires win every comparo they go into, look cool, are really cheap, have great grip (better then Kumho.. which is the most overrated tire manufacturer IMO) and you can get them in like any size you need.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by b_t
Why not look into Goodyear Eagle F1s... those tires win every comparo they go into, look cool, are really cheap, have great grip (better then Kumho.. which is the most overrated tire manufacturer IMO) and you can get them in like any size you need.

I know they won the C+D test, are there any other reviews on that tire?

[gpomp]

goodyear's don't come in 14", jeff

[b_t]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
I know they won the C+D test, are there any other reviews on that tire?

EVO magazine, a big British publication, had a test on them a year and a half ago. They even had R compound Yokohamas I think they were to compare with, and they said that the grip of the R compounds was unapproachable by even the grippiest street tire but the noise was ungodly.

[gpomp]

is tire noise a big deal? especially for ppl like us who run large diameter (noisy) exhausts?

[b_t]

Originally posted by gpomp
is tire noise a big deal? especially for ppl like us who run large diameter (noisy) exhausts?

Tire noise doesn't really bother me since my music is always cranked, but race tires.. as far as noise goes, are a totally different beast.. they are LOUD from inside (imagine driving on rumble strips at 90km/h all the time) and outside the car. Totally an individual preference kind of thing.

[Moonracer]

What makes them so loud?

[rage2]

Originally posted by tsi_neal
You couldnt get me to daily drive R's if they were free...

Really the insane wear, high noise, and the constant fight to keep the vehicle in a straight line on uneven roads is only the start.

One of the bigger (biggest?) downfalls is that R's only have a certain number of heat cycles in them before they go off, and when they do go off youll get much better grip out of a top end street tire. So basically if you drive gentle on them youll kill them by heat cycling.

I disagree. Although R's will perform worse after a while, it still rapes the best of street tires. I went through about 8 sets of different tires in 1 summer back in 2003 or 2004 ranging from Kumho's to Toyos to Michellins to A032R's, street and R's, and R's will destroy the best of street tires on the street. Not even a close comparison.

As for wear, the A032R's wear about the same as the Toyo T1-S. I was able to burn through each set in about 2 and a half weeks of street driving, an autocross or two, and a track day.

The noise wasn't much of a problem for me because the SLK was always top down, so windnoise > tirenoise. With the top up though, it's annoying as hell hehe. The buzzing from the tires easily overcomes the audio system, and vibrates the car a bit too.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by gpomp
goodyear's don't come in 14", jeff

I'm looking for 14" or 15".

Originally posted by rage2
The buzzing from the tires easily overcomes the audio system, and vibrates the car a bit too.

Actually, this has sorta made me rethink the R compounds even more...I tend to do a lot of highway driving between Calgary and Edmonton and to BC too, so I'm starting to think R compounds might be a bit too much for long trips.

[rage2]

haha ya, I drove to e-town on R compounds. At least it kept me awake.

[tsi_neal]

Originally posted by rage2

I disagree. Although R's will perform worse after a while, it still rapes the best of street tires. I went through about 8 sets of different tires in 1 summer back in 2003 or 2004 ranging from Kumho's to Toyos to Michellins to A032R's, street and R's, and R's will destroy the best of street tires on the street. Not even a close comparison.

And ill have to disagree with your disargeement When R's, especially A032Rs, get old they suck. Once they go off they arent as sticky as a good street. There is a set in my basement that have gone off and i swear they are no better than my streets. Ive never ran on toyo's but have heard its a more gradual decline into non stickyness, but that it still happens.

And a guy that i race with had a set of A032R's in similar shape to mine donated to him and he opted to go back to his KumhoMX's for the next solo2. He complained that they just didnt stick, and knowing how mine got near the end i wasnt suprised.

EDIT: I left out the most important part here, most normal people dont wear tires out in 2.5 weeks, and will have a set of R's go off on the street long before they are physically worn out. Well durable R's anyways, as the new breed may last a few hundred km at VERY best, I think the best anyone got last season was 90ish solo2 laps on a set of kumho 710s say ~90km and said they went off after ~70 laps)

Originally posted by b_t

(better then Kumho.. which is the most overrated tire manufacturer IMO)

As for kumho being overratted, they are THE race tire to run if you want to be fast. Definatly the most winning tire in the SCCA. 710's compleatly blew me away when i first tried them, but good luck getting more than a couple hundred KM out of them.

[rage2]

Originally posted by tsi_neal
And ill have to disagree with your disargeement When R's, especially A032Rs, get old they suck. Once they go off they arent as sticky as a good street. There is a set in my basement that have gone off and i swear they are no better than my streets. Ive never ran on toyo's but have heard its a more gradual decline into non stickyness, but that it still happens.

And a guy that i race with had a set of A032R's in similar shape to mine donated to him and he opted to go back to his KumhoMX's for the next solo2. He complained that they just didnt stick, and knowing how mine got near the end i wasnt suprised.

Guess our mileage varied. As good as the KumhoMX's were (I have them on my SLK and 944 for street), even worn A032R (hard compound) after tons of heat cycling from daily driving owned them hard, street and track. I still have telemetry data from 03 and 04 showing the difference, and it was huge.

Lucky for me, I logged every lap I ran at race city on a variety of tires to find the right tire for AutoX when I was hardcore hehe.

And for the uneducated:

Kumho V700 > Yoko A032R (soft) > Toyo RA-1 > Yoko A032R (hard)

A032R (hard) are the ONLY tires that work well on the street, everything else wears way too fast.

[962 kid]

Originally posted by tsi_neal


As for kumho being overratted, they are THE race tire to run if you want to be fast. Definatly the most winning tire in the SCCA. 710's compleatly blew me away when i first tried them, but good luck getting more than a couple hundred KM out of them.

he was talking about street tyres there, not the 710s