Whats going on with FORD amd GM?

[R!zz0]

I was watching Communist News Network (CNN) and i thought i saw ford laying people off? I couldn't watch the whole news cuz my 5 yr old nephew wanted to watch treehouse. What's going on with GM and Ford? Is the import market really destroying them?
I know Toyota and GM had talks before but never thought Ford was goin down too.

[Xtrema]

Both heavily relied on trucks and SUVs. Gas prices is not helping them move inventories which led to idle plants. Both have no small cars to compete with the imports and while quality is actually on par with Japanese, style, design and technology are still behind.

Case in point, new G6's engines are horrible, every one include Hyundai can squeeze 240-280HP out of a 3.5L powerplant while GM only does 201HP. Interior plastic is very cheap.

Ford Fusion is also quite ugly on the inside.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Product is only a small part of their troubles. Its the entire images of the company, their junk bond status, their weak and unstable investments and liabilities ie Daewoo and Jag as well as the unions and health care structure. Their archeic management and old school mentality all are leading to their downfall. Plus the fact that no reputable executives want to work for them. Carlos Ghosn, the ceo of Nissan and the man responsible for Nissans comeback denied job offers both from Ford and GM. And this rate will they ever be able to recover?

[Kirbs17]

Also, American Unions are killing these once-giants. (Dont get me wrong, I support unions). But with some of the practices, and a lot of the other theroys and procedures they use, Japanese and German auto manufacturers can simply make a better car because there isnt as much beurocratic bullsh!t. I.E. American car manufacturers have tried for year to obtain steel from supplies by choosing the one who could supply it at the lowest cost, then driving them down further, well the Japanese (Nissan and Toyota namely) have spent years setting up relations with their supplies, trying to find ways to cut costs together.

[SwitchBlade]

Oversold the market

Undesirable product

Gas prices and Truck and SUV re-evalulation

Heavy competition from foreign markets and no autopact or
similar legislation

Health care costs

[sputnik]

I would blame the CAW/UAW paying a forklift operator $100k/yr before I would blame higher gas prices and its impact of the SUV/Truck market.

[benyl]

Health care costs and Pension liabilities.

DaimlerChrysler just announced cuts and plant closures.

The product mix is poor. People are now trained to buy only when there are incentives.

GM is no longer a car company. It is a financial institution and a health care provider. GMAC is the only part of GM making money. They should sell it off.

GM is also the second largest health care provider in the US.

A solution is to tell the Unions to fuck off. GM needs to give the burden of the pension liabilities to the Unions.

The worst part is that if they declare bankrupcy, it is a double edged sword. People, in general, won't buy a car from a company that has declared bankrupcy.

[Kirbs17]

Ford: At Least They Circled the Problem

[Goblin]

^ haha thats great

Yeah what was it, 31k jobs? damn

[handsomebassman]

Originally posted by Xtrema
...and while quality is actually on par with Japanese.....

Quality is NOT on par with japanese. Go for a weekend of test driving. You can almost break all of gm's climate control knobs off with normal use.

[finboy]

Originally posted by SwitchBlade
Oversold the market

Undesirable product

Gas prices and Truck and SUV re-evalulation

Heavy competition from foreign markets and no autopact or
similar legislation

Health care costs

Originally posted by sputnik
I would blame the CAW/UAW paying a forklift operator $100k/yr before I would blame higher gas prices and its impact of the SUV/Truck market.

hit the nail on the head

in an interview, for execs were saying that even with some of the import companies setting up in america, they are aiming towards the southern states because it is harder to set up a union down there.

all in all, the big 3 screwed themselves, which really kind of sucks because they are making much better cars now, unfortunatly its too little too late.

[b_t]

Originally posted by handsomebassman


Quality is NOT on par with japanese. Go for a weekend of test driving. You can almost break all of gm's climate control knobs off with normal use.

Actually, it is on par, and actually GM exceeds some big foreign automakers in terms of quality.

[benyl]

Originally posted by b_t


Actually, it is on par, and actually GM exceeds some big foreign automakers in terms of quality.

But the perception of poor quality is pervasive.

[Nissanaddict]

Gm has improved, HUGELY on quality, but it is not on par with the Japanese...and I used to be a HUGE GM fan.

[handsomebassman]

Originally posted by b_t


Actually, it is on par, and actually GM exceeds some big foreign automakers in terms of quality.

Ill bring my 06 civic, and you bring any 06 gm vehicle. Even the corvette. Lol, ill show you the difference.

Watch top gears review of the corvette. The could move the whole rear of the vehicle (tail lights, body panels) with one finger. And they could bend all interior plastic pieces.

[benyl]

Every review of the C6 corvette that I have read / seen said that it would be a great car if it weren't for the shitty build quality.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by handsomebassman
Quality is NOT on par with japanese. Go for a weekend of test driving. You can almost break all of gm's climate control knobs off with normal use.

I mean more on reliability:

http://www.cartest.ca/2005_most_reliable_vehicles.htm



The Japanese reliablity is slowly turning into an urban myth.

[benyl]

New article on CNN about this:

Fact check: Are American cars really that bad?

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/23/Auto...cars/index.htm

[kaput]

.

[Nissanaddict]

I was referring to build quality as well....as far as reliability....Weve owned a few gms. Corsica....245 000kms, dead by engine gunk buildup largely due to car sitting around for 4 years...tranny still shifted great (automatic) mind you the build quality sucked, but I found it more comfortable to drive than newer gms (10 hour drives included) Chev Beretta....owned it for a month. Previous owner off-roaded regularily, so suspension and steering problems due to VERY intense abuse.....Engine? 310 000kms, still ran strong. Tranny was acting funny, but only shifting into 1st gear, once it was in, it worked fine. Since the Corsica had the same suspension I know essentially it's fine if not driven through stuff it shouldn't be in. Quality, also sucked. parents' venture....airbag problems, and that's it.