Turning right on red from second lane

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Maxt

you cant have "grey area" laws, or cops making them up on the spot either...

Grey areas are a great way for the city police to make money. You'll never see them lobbying to get more specific laws in place.

[dezmarez]

BUMP

I’ve received a red light ticket in the mail, for duel left lane turn on a red onto a one way.
Made the turn from the second lane. Downtown Calgary, 4th Street SW heading North, turning left onto 6th Ave SW.

I fought the ticket, plead not guilty, and received court date.

Just got the “discovery” package in the mail, showing exactly what I described above. Yet, I’m under the impression this is legal.

Even on the government website, https://www.alberta.ca/turning.aspx#jumplinks-1 it states:

“ When the light is red, if there are no signs prohibiting the turn, you may turn left on a red light from a one way to a one way after you come to a complete stop at the proper stopping location (stop line or crosswalk) and it is safe. This also applies to dual lane turns. Yield to pedestrians crossing to your left.”

Just seems like a gigantic waste of time.

Anyone else been through this recently?

[ThePenIsMightier]

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BUMP

I’ve received a red light ticket in the mail, for duel left lane turn on a red onto a one way.
Made the turn from the second lane. Downtown Calgary, 4th Street SW heading North, turning left onto 6th Ave SW.

I fought the ticket, plead not guilty, and received court date.

Just got the “discovery” package in the mail, showing exactly what I described above. Yet, I’m under the impression this is legal.

Even on the government website, https://www.alberta.ca/turning.aspx#jumplinks-1 it states:

“ When the light is red, if there are no signs prohibiting the turn, you may turn left on a red light from a one way to a one way after you come to a complete stop at the proper stopping location (stop line or crosswalk) and it is safe. This also applies to dual lane turns. Yield to pedestrians crossing to your left.”

Just seems like a gigantic waste of time.

Anyone else been through this recently?

I think it's only legal from the farthest left lane. That prevents you from crossing the path of westbound vehicles before you join the second lane of westbound vehicles, as opposed to simply joining one westbound lane. You can see how that's a more complex and invasive manoeuvre.
But I don't know!



How much is the ticket and demerits? Did they call it "unsafe left turn" or "driving against a traffic control device"?

[dezmarez]

It was for going through the red light.

Yea, it’s weird I’ve been taking that way home since 2018, and I would have made that turn numerous times from that lane, but never had any sort of summons in the mail. Obviously won’t be doing it anymore.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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It was for going through the red light.

Yea, it’s weird I’ve been taking that way home since 2018, and I would have made that turn numerous times from that lane, but never had any sort of summons in the mail. Obviously won’t be doing it anymore.

Oops. Reading > me.
I misunderstood that it was a camera ticket.

I think I'd fight it, too because it's vague.
But I think I recall they explain it better in BC, saying that you must be on the inside lane.
Even shittier to enforce with a camera, in my opinion.

[ExtraSlow]

Is it the same for right turns? There's three wide right turns some places downtown that I take.

[danno]

Is it possible you didn’t stop at the red light??

[rage2]

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Is it possible you didn’t stop at the red light??

The camera won't show that. Just that you went on red.

[bjstare]

Yeah I was thinking a classic rolling stop scenario is a possibility here. In which case, the ticket would apply.

I'm 99% the dual turn from one way to one way on red is legal, even in the second lane.

[danno]

I’m not sure how the loops work on the camera, but other loops in the road detect the vehicle and can delay the activation of calling the signal. Eg a right turn if a car stops and can leave in under 5 seconds it doesn’t call the signals to change. I’d assume they can do that for a red light camera as well, the issue with this one it has a straight through as well.

[dezmarez]

Ya that is the only thing I can think of, in terms of having the straight through as well.
Court date is in like 18 months, so I won’t be finding out for quite a while.

[Xtrema]

So to be clear, this is a north bound facing camera catching you running a red doing a legal left turn?

Fight that shit but still what a waste of time.

Or may be see if any media will take your story to force CPS recalibrate that camera.

[94CoRd]

I turn right from the second lane on 11 ave SW to north on 14th street frequently. I've never received anything in the mail to date - although I just did get a Canada post delivery notice / signature required this morning - is that how they send red light tickets?

Anyway, the number of times I see people not doing it, I think most people think it's illegal, but from what I've read, as long as there are no signs prohibiting it, you come to a complete stop, and it's safe to do so, you can turn right from the second lane on red.

[gmc72]

I remember being told when I was taking a driving course (many, many years ago), that if you wanted to turn on red, it had to be curb lane to curb lane (eg. left curb lane to left curb lane).

But that was 34 years ago now.

[16hypen3sp]

But why did it suddenly start giving you problems now if you've been doing the same thing since 2018?

Of course I say 'fight it' just on general principle.

[rage2]

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But why did it suddenly start giving you problems now if you've been doing the same thing since 2018?

Of course I say 'fight it' just on general principle.

It's because those red light cameras are fucking stupid and take pictures of everything that crosses the line. Someone is supposed to review to ensure it's a legit red light runner. Clearly someone not doing their job. Easy one to fight and it'll get tossed immediately on 2nd review.

[lilmira]

I have done it multiple times at 11st and 14st SW too with no problem. I always stop completely though. I would think the same would apply to dual left from one way to one way. I might have even done it at 4st and 6ave SW but I'm not sure. Shouldn't there be two pictures? one before you enter and one after you enter, if you have stopped there would be a fair time gap between the two. It shouldn't even have triggered the camera to begin with from my understanding.

[ThePenIsMightier]

The bump from post #22 should/could be a thread split since the very old original thread is about right turns and his issue is about Left On Red.
2¢

[pheoxs]

My guess would be a incomplete stop and you went through the sensors too quickly. Or you stopped into the crosswalk and the loops thought you continued through.

Otherwise if you need supporting info:

https://www.alberta.ca/turning.aspx#...%20your%20left.

Bottom paragraph

Turning left from a 1-way onto a 1-way




When it is safe and legal, turn from the lane nearest the left side of the road. Turn into the lane nearest to the left side of the road. Yield to pedestrians crossing to your left.

When the light is red, if there are no signs prohibiting the turn, you may turn left on a red light from a one way to a one way after you come to a complete stop at the proper stopping location (stop line or crosswalk) and it is safe. This also applies to dual lane turns. Yield to pedestrians crossing to your left.

[16hypen3sp]

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It's because those red light cameras are fucking stupid and take pictures of everything that crosses the line. Someone is supposed to review to ensure it's a legit red light runner. Clearly someone not doing their job. Easy one to fight and it'll get tossed immediately on 2nd review.

Ah I see. The camera is really taking pics that often as in this case? That's crazy. That must be a ton of photos of people doing a legal act that gets photographed, reviewed and tossed. I'm assuming the induction loop senses the car move against the red light and snaps a photo even with the driver turning left.