The official rage2 Hondata/Uberdata/Crome Honda tuning thread
Because I'm doing so much Honda tuning lately, and seeing a lot of folks with issues on the dyno because the cars weren't ready for whatever reason, I decided to put this thread together to make sure that anyone using my tuning services pay as little as possible. I've answered these questions repeatedly in PM's so this thread will make my life easier lol.
This thread mostly deals with Hondata/Uberdata/Crome tuning. I also tune full standalone systems, and most of these tips will apply. There are some standalones that I would rather not tune (*ahem* Nemesis) because it's very time consuming due to it's poor user interface.
My rates are $200/hr which includes dyno time, wideband o2 sniffing, strapping the car on dyno, etc. Minimum is 1 hour, so if I finish your car in 30 minutes, I still charge 1 hour.
I only tune by appointments only and only on Sundays where I don't have to work, so if you're interested in having me tune your car, PM me for details and scheduling. Typical wait times are 1-2 weeks based on how many cars I have scheduled.
Our sponsor Speedtech Racing Development also does tuning for lower rates than me. They pretty much can do everything I can and vice versa. Some people prefer me, some people prefer Speedtech. I would suggest speaking with them first before talking to me, as I do this for fun, and would like to see our sponsor here get the business rather than me. Of course, if you go to Speedtech, these tips will apply to them as well.
FAQ
Q. Why should I tune my car?
A. Stock ECU's are tuned to provide safe and conservative operations of your motor under all conditions. If you make a modification to your vehicle, the fuel and ignition timing requirements change, and the stock maps are not optimal for your engine and could cause damage without tuning. By using to uberdata, you get extra features such as launch control, shift lights, boost cuts, etc.
Q. Does my car need tuning?
A. If your car is stock, probably not. If you have basic mods such as I/H/E, then you'll get moderate gains. If you have a bored or stroked engine, a frankenstein motor (LS/VTEC, CR/VTEC), or an aftermarket turbo/supercharger setup, then most definately, unless you want to blow up.
Q. Can you tune on the street instead of on the dyno?
No. I've done it before and have run into too much problems with cops, not to mention a few near death experiences. 3rd and 4th gear pulls with a 400hp car with small brakes ain't exactly safe.
Q. I heard street tuning is more accurate
A. Sure, if you use a dynojet. I use Toma's Mustang dyno exclusively for my tuning work, and it replicates street loads perfectly.
Q. Do you tune using SAFC?
A. No. I only tune standalones and Honda ECUs (Hondata, Uberdata, Crome).
Q. How much power gains will I get from tuning?
A. On a stock car (say an Integra GSR with 170hp stock) you'll see a 10-15hp gain. If you have I/H/E mods, typically see a 30-40hp gain. If there's a turbo/supercharger setup, it depends on how much boost you run.
Q. Where do I go to get a turbokit?
A. Our sponsor, Speedtech Racing Development, sells turbo kits for Hondas. If you want a custom kit, please see the Official legendboy turbo kit thread.
Q. How much boost should I run?
A. Not an easy to answer question. I will tune at a safe boost level, then let the owner decide if he/she wants more. I'll let them know how much I can push before reaching the limits of fuel.
Q. What gas should I use?
A. For NA cars, 91 octane is fine. For turbo/supercharged cars, I highly recommend using Mohawk 94. For out of towners, if 94 octane isn't readily available in your town, then use 91. For 91 octane, I highly recommend Shell 91.
Q. What gas should I go to the dyno with?
A. Go with what you'll be using on a regular basis. Don't have a mix of fuel (91/94 mix) in your tank coming to the dyno. Use up at least 2 tanks of the gas you want to use to ensure you have the proper fuel.
Q. If I tune on 94 octane and forced to use 91 octane on a roadtrip, what should I do?
A. Turbo cars can turn down the boost. Have a low boost profile to use lower octane fuel. As a general rule, dropping from 94 to 91 octane fuel, you should drop boost by 3psi. 1psi for every octane point.
Q. Should I use octane boosters?
A. No.
Q. How long does it take to tune?
A. If your car is working properly, it takes on average 1 hour on a non VTEC motor, and 1.5 hours on a VTEC motor. H22a4 turbo/supercharged vehicles usually takes about 2 hours due to the fact that I have to be a lot more careful at each boost level as the stock H22a4 is a bit more sensitive to air fuel ratios and timing than B series motors because of piston design. If you switch to a 3 bar map sensor, add another hour. These estimates are on the high side, I've done a complete VTEC turbo tune in 40 minutes, and a supercharged M3 in 20 minutes before. Just depends on how well your car runs and how consistent it is.
Q. What do I need before you can tune my car?
A. Here's a list of everything that you need and check before coming to the dyno. This will ensure that everything runs smoothly and we get you on and off the dyno in the quickest time possible.Q. Who do I get to chip my ECU?
- Pick the right ECU for your application. I will only list out the most popular choices here. Only OBD1 ECUs work.
- For VTEC cars, you can use a P28 (92-95 Civic Si), P30 (92-95 Del Sol VTEC CROME ONLY NO UBERDATA), P72 (94-95 Integra GSR)
- For non VTEC cars, you can use a P06 (92-95 Civic DX), PR4 (92-93 Integra non GSR), P74/75 (94-95 Integra non GSR). You can also use any of the VTEC ECUs listed above.
- If you are using a knock sensor, you have to use the P72 (94-95 Integra GSR)
- Make sure the ECU is socketed with a EEPROM chip by using a low profile ZIF socket. PLEASE USE A ZIF SOCKET! This is important because it's very easy to break pins off the chips without one.
- Atmel AT29C256 is the popular choice. I prefer SST 27SF256 as they are much faster to program. Faster means less time on the dyno. Not a huge deal, because I usually have a spare SST 27SF256 that I work with anyways, and burn to your chip once I'm done.
- Make sure your distributor is set to STOCK BASE timing. To do this, plug a jumper into the diagnostics plug and start the car. Then use a timing light to ensure the timing is at 16 degrees. Lock your distributor down and verify 16 degrees. This will ensure what I set for timing in the software will be exact.
- Make sure your plugs are good and not fouled. Ensure you have the right plugs (a step or 2 colder for forced induction) and make sure they're gapped properly.
- For boosted applications, it's highly recommended that you upgrade your plug wires.
- For over 350hp, an aftermarket ignition system is recommended.
- Check that all hoses are secured, especially with boosted vehicles.
- Make sure your car is not leaking any fluids.
- Make sure your car has no exhaust leaks (very important for boosted applications).
- If your car is lowered with coilovers, RAISE THE CAR before showing up. You're responsible for your own vehicle so if you try to get on the dyno with 1" ground clearance, your bumper will probably fall off.
- Make sure your cooling system is working properly and bled properly. Air in your cooling system will overheat your car pretty fast on the dyno.
- Make sure your check engine light works. This is required for debugging sensors and problems with your car during tuning.
- Make sure your injectors are big enough for your power goals. If you change injectors after a tune, you'll have to do a full tune all over again.
- To determine what size injectors you need, see this chart to determine FLYWHEEL HP vs injector size.
- Honda ECU's can idle 720cc injectors fine. I suggest getting 720cc's right off the bat, since it's not much more expensive, and you'll never have to change injectors or retune again unless you start going over 500hp.
- If you are running more than 14psi of boost, switch to a 3bar map sensor.
- If your turbo/supercharger kit comes with an FMU or other fuel/timing control devices, remove them all. Ensure that your fuel pressure is set back to stock!
A. Speedtech, sml, richardchan2002. If you offer chipping services, post it in here and I'll update this list. Free advertising!
Q. Can you tune for specific purposes such as drag racing, road racing?
A. Yes. Let me know what you'll be using your car for, and I will ensure that the tune is optimal for your needs. I've done road race cars (stock B18B turbo) that's lasted over 6 hours of endurance racing without any problems. I've pushed an extra 30whp for drag cars that can handle that power on pump gas for short bursts.
Q. Now that my car is turbo'd/chipped/injector changed, the car won't start/drive. How do I get the car to the dyno?
A. I can do a base tune for you based on your mods. It's enough to drive OFF BOOST to the dyno for tuning.
Q. Can you tune for nitrous?
A. Nope, unfortunately I don't have experience in this area. Toma can help you with that.
Q. Can you tune with race gas?
A. Yes. I suggest using unleaded race fuel (MS103 is a great fuel, I've used this extensively on my own cars) instead of higher octane leaded race fuel. I've personally run 30psi on MS103 and still have a large window for higher boost. It's fairly rare that anything over 103 octane is required.
If you have any other questions, feel free to ask in this thread so everyone can see. I'll update this list as I remember more stuff.
This information will save a lot of time and money for both the persons getting cars tuned and the people at the dyno. It makes everyone's life easier. A list of Honda engine codes is invaluable as well as a jumper to read the codes. It also doesn't hurt to carry extra spark plugs, wires, vacuum line, engine oil (vtec doesn't work without proper oil pressure), and some tools.
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Originally Posted by heavyfuel
