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Thread: fuel upgrade question?

  1. #21
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    Originally posted by Cheeze
    Yah...but if you are gonna up the boost even on a stock turbo and rail, or even run stock boost on an n/a pump you are demanding more fuel from the pump, and therefore chancing a disaster.

    having a new pump and high flow pump are both insurance policies. If the stock pump kicks it because of the new demand of fuel enrichment for turbo applications, while your boosting, itll lean out and possibly kill your engine for you.
    Have you ever built a 3sgte before? the stock turbo fuel system is good till 275 rwhp. tried and true it already runs pig rich stock so i dont have the foggiest idea why you would want to put more fuel in when there is already too much as is...

    Thinmyster , you dont need fuel upgrades to run a ct20 they run just fine on the stock turbo pump rail and injectors.... If you just want to run a ct20 and get close to 270 rwhp just get the stock turbo fuel pump and be done with it....

    Cheeze do me a favour and instead of arguing read the power primer, it has dyno results AFRs and everything you need to understand...
    http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm

    it says everything you nede to know....
    Last edited by bmeier; 12-15-2006 at 07:16 PM.

  2. #22
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    All i was saying is that the n/a pump may not be able to supply the demand of fuel. It is most likely rated at a lower flow rate than the 3sgte fuel pump.....


    and also...the walboro pump WONT make it run any richer....

    i run a walboro on my ca18det....and im still running spot on fuel ratios....

  3. #23
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    Default Re: fuel upgrade question?

    Originally posted by thinmyster
    since i need to upgrade my n/a fuel pump im thinking walbro 255 does this mean i need to upgrade my rail?

    From what ive read im choking my engine right now leaving the original pump in my car

    What problems will i encounter leaving it in?
    has anyone done an intank install?

    he is changing out his N/a pump....to a upgraded one...because the n/a pump MAY not have enuff flow to supply it......


    i wasnt argueing.......i did not intend to....was just giving another opinion....

  4. #24
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    Originally posted by Cheeze
    All i was saying is that the n/a pump may not be able to supply the demand of fuel. It is most likely rated at a lower flow rate than the 3sgte fuel pump.....


    and also...the walboro pump WONT make it run any richer....

    i run a walboro on my ca18det....and im still running spot on fuel ratios....
    \\

    i never once recommended the stock NA fuel pump, your right it wont supply the proper amount of fuel.

    I was saying the whole time to use the stock turbo pump but you neglected to read the posts properly.


    i dont know what kind of mods your planning but a stock 3sgte pump might suit your needs better.
    i would go with the stock 3sgte pump personally.
    the ca18DET is not the same engine as a 3sgte. so i have no idea what stating that is supposed to prove.
    Last edited by bmeier; 12-15-2006 at 07:24 PM.

  5. #25
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    Swapping the fuel pump is a BITCH!

    Took me a bit of time when I did it.

    I swapped in a Walbro 255 pump.

  6. #26
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    Originally posted by bmeier
    \\

    i never once recommended the stock NA fuel pump, your right it wont supply the proper amount of fuel.

    I was saying the whole time to use the stock turbo pump but you neglected to read the posts properly.






    the ca18DET is not the same engine as a 3sgte. so i have no idea what stating that is supposed to prove.

    ok..now heres where youre dumb.....you recommended the stock 3sgte pump....now.....if theres an n/a pump in there.....and you want him to use a 3sgte pump....that would involve what? CHANGING IT.....

    what i was saying, is, save yourself the time and money, and just put the walboro in to begin with.....instead of putting it in later when you upgrade equipment, thusly changing the pump twice.


    i never claimed the ca18det was the same as the 3sgte....i claimed the theory is much the same.....

    and stop being an asshole...
    Last edited by Cheeze; 12-16-2006 at 01:32 AM.

  7. #27
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    Originally posted by bmeier
    also you are probably going to run rich with the walbro...

    i dont know what kind of mods your planning but a stock 3sgte pump might suit your needs better.

    the stock fuel pressure regulator somtimes has trouble controlling the large pump from what i hear. I have no experience with this but its just something to think about.

    theres where you said a stock 3sgte pump may be better.....

    and two.....youre not going to run rich with the walboro......

  8. #28
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    Originally posted by Cheeze



    ok..now heres where youre dumb.....you recommended the stock 3sgte pump....now.....if theres an n/a pump in there.....and you want him to use a 3sgte pump....that would involve what? CHANGING IT.....

    what i was saying, is, save yourself the time and money, and just put the walboro in to begin with.....instead of putting it in later when you upgrade equipment, thusly changing the pump twice.


    i never claimed the ca18det was the same as the 3sgte....i claimed the theory is much the same.....

    and stop being an asshole...


    Your post doesn;t even make sense. i am not trying to be an asshole but just read this post carefully.

    He has to change the pump this is a fact. he has two options now to choose a pump.

    Option 1 stock 3sgte fuel pump
    This pump is the recommended pump if you are sticking with the stock turbo upto 275 rwhp. This is Dyno proven toyota overbuilt the fuel and ignition system on this engine so it is perfectly safe to run at these power levels on a stock system.

    Option 2 walbro
    Its recommended to upgrade the rail if you do this so you dont get a bad pressure drop on the stock rail. this pump is only needed if you are planning to put a bigger turbo on or exceed 300 rwhp.

    I can understand what your saying if he wants to goto a bigger turbo later on then just stick the walbro in and be done with it. If he is 100 percent sticking with a stock turbo or ct20 the 3sgte pump will actually be a better setup for his car.

    I am not saying the walbro is a bad choice i am just saying the stock turbo pump might be a better choice if he plans to keep the original turbo.



    PS if you could read you would understand that he wont have to change the pump twice if he doesnt plan to upgrade which is the whole fucking point of what i am trying to say....
    Last edited by bmeier; 12-16-2006 at 03:55 AM.

  9. #29
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    Ok...i understand what you are saying...100%


    but.....i have never had any problems with rich condition from running a walboro pump on an otherwise stock engine......thats all i was trying to say....but yah, either choice is good.

    My opinion, the walbro, but thats just my opinion.





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    What about if he got the walbro, kept the stock 3's rail, and got a fuel pressure regulator, to adjust the pressure?

    BTW if you are going to upgrade your rail, I wouldnt go with the ATS "upgraded" rail, because it is only a bored out stock rail, instead go with the wolfkatz. IMO

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    Originally posted by New2Talon
    What about if he got the walbro, kept the stock 3's rail, and got a fuel pressure regulator, to adjust the pressure?

    BTW if you are going to upgrade your rail, I wouldnt go with the ATS "upgraded" rail, because it is only a bored out stock rail, instead go with the wolfkatz. IMO
    Thats my setup right now.

    Walbro 255lph HP Fuel Pump
    Aeromotive Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator
    Stock rest of fuel.

  12. #32
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    Originally posted by New2Talon
    What about if he got the walbro, kept the stock 3's rail, and got a fuel pressure regulator, to adjust the pressure?

    BTW if you are going to upgrade your rail, I wouldnt go with the ATS "upgraded" rail, because it is only a bored out stock rail, instead go with the wolfkatz. IMO
    Yeah that would be fine, and leaves room to change his setup later down the road. If he never plans to upgrade though i would still rather have an Oem pump and not have to get a pressure regulator. Just personal preference...

  13. #33
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    Originally posted by stealth


    Thats my setup right now.

    Walbro 255lph HP Fuel Pump
    Aeromotive Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator
    Stock rest of fuel.

    That's like mine, except I have 550 injectors, and a fuel pressure gauge
    Last edited by New2Talon; 12-17-2006 at 01:26 PM.

  14. #34
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    O I also have a Fuel Pressure gauge

  15. #35
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    I haven't been around in a while so I am not sure what your setup is
    thinmyster. Sounds like a 3SGTE swap int o an N/A. Is that correct?

    The first question is what are your power requirements? If you are heading over 275hp then you need to upgrade the pump no 2 ways about it.

    The next step is to look at the electrical power. The pump for the 3SGTE uses resistor packs and if you are using a stock ECU it will depend on them being there. I don't remember if the NA used them or not and if it did whether they are the same resitance ot not.

    If you are using an aftermarket ECU then you can run without the resistors. You can not use the Walboro with the resistors. If you are burning enough fuel that you need the supra pump then your rail needs to be swapped out as well. Also the Supra pump draws more power than the other 2 and needs to be moved onto it's own relay which means you are creating a whole new circuit foir it.

    I know that has probably cleared nothing up for you. Some thing to keep in mind is when the tank is full the walboro is pretty quite. When the tank is empty it is annoying.

    If you go with the walboro or the supra pump then upgrade your rail. There is no need to swap out the regulator unless you go with larger fuel lines or you are planning on running a puggy back and want to tune with the preasure regulator.

    I run Walboro -> stoick regulator -> Wolfkatz rail -> Blitz 850s.

    The 2 hard parts of the fuel pump drop are getting the car high enough and disconnecting the lines. To get enough height you need to get the car up on 4 jackstands and preferably 4 ton or bigger stands. Get those really long needle noses from Canadian tire with the 45 and 90 degree ends for the hoses.

    BTW a fuel pressure gauge may make all the other questions easier to answer. Hope that helps.

  16. #36
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    yea sorry it is a N/a turbo swap

    ugghh im thinking the most ill go right now is somewhere around 275whp w/ ct20 turbo (which i dont have yet). and i guess this can all be accomplished on an oem unit so thats the way im leaning now...

    Thanks for all the replys guys. good info here.
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    The supra pump is nice because no soldering is required just hooks right in like the stock pump. You can run stock injectors, stock rail, stock fpr no problem until you really really up the boost. The ats fpr is a nice upgrade, makes your 440's work like 480's. The stock g2 rail is known for limiting the fuel in the number 3 and 4 cyl I believe. The ats mod fixes this and of course flows much more. For my blitz turbo Im just going to use the ats fpr and rail until I decide what I want to do to run larger injectors.
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  18. #38
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    Originally posted by jvillain
    I haven't been around in a while so I am not sure what your setup is
    thinmyster. Sounds like a 3SGTE swap int o an N/A. Is that correct?

    The first question is what are your power requirements? If you are heading over 275hp then you need to upgrade the pump no 2 ways about it.

    The next step is to look at the electrical power. The pump for the 3SGTE uses resistor packs and if you are using a stock ECU it will depend on them being there. I don't remember if the NA used them or not and if it did whether they are the same resitance ot not.

    If you are using an aftermarket ECU then you can run without the resistors. You can not use the Walboro with the resistors. If you are burning enough fuel that you need the supra pump then your rail needs to be swapped out as well. Also the Supra pump draws more power than the other 2 and needs to be moved onto it's own relay which means you are creating a whole new circuit foir it.

    I know that has probably cleared nothing up for you. Some thing to keep in mind is when the tank is full the walboro is pretty quite. When the tank is empty it is annoying.

    If you go with the walboro or the supra pump then upgrade your rail. There is no need to swap out the regulator unless you go with larger fuel lines or you are planning on running a puggy back and want to tune with the preasure regulator.

    I run Walboro -> stoick regulator -> Wolfkatz rail -> Blitz 850s.

    The 2 hard parts of the fuel pump drop are getting the car high enough and disconnecting the lines. To get enough height you need to get the car up on 4 jackstands and preferably 4 ton or bigger stands. Get those really long needle noses from Canadian tire with the 45 and 90 degree ends for the hoses.

    BTW a fuel pressure gauge may make all the other questions easier to answer. Hope that helps.
    Can you clarify something for me here?

    I always hear on MR2OC, to remove the packs when you upgrade the pump.

    Others say only if you have a EMS.

    Should I remove my Fuel Resistor Pack, if I am on a 20b, Walbro Unit, Braided Lines, Aeromotive FPR?

    Thanks.

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    so I got a walbro... ill be running th ct26 or ct20b for at least a season. now what?
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  20. #40
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    wolfkatz recommends you get an upgraded rail. I am not sure why but there is a lot of info about this on mr2oc. It has something to do with a pressure drop across the rail with the new pump. they explain it better than i do.

    In any case lots of guys havent upgraded their rails and are fine so odds are it wont hurt anything. Goto mr2oc and readup and you can make the decision for yourself.

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