Just venting...

[EK 2.0]

Now, I am not wanting to turn this into a religion debate. Or have people bashed or cut down because of off the wall viewpoints, so if I see any of that those comments will be removed.

I just need to get some shizz off of my chest and I figure there will be a lot of different viewpoints, and decent opinions on beyond. So here goes...

I recently lost a friend to suicide. Now when we were in our youngers days we were pretty inseparable. If you couldn't find one of us you asked the other and he would know where they were. We spent a LOT of time together, sleepovers, camping trips with each other families, countless dinners at teh other families house. School projects requiring a partner we would almost always team up except when the darn teachers split us up haha...We were pretty close until he moved to the otherside of the city. Now at age 12 when he did move I mean a move to ther other end of Calgary versus when he just lived like 4 houses down was a huge blow to our friendship. I mean at 12 years old, I can't get into a car and VTEC to Woodbine the way i can now you know?? So needless to say we did kind of drift apart. Still hung out on weekends, and holidays...but we both started making new friends, or cementing friendships we had with other kids.

We hit High School, and again, him living in the south meant we wouldn't go to the same school, but no biggie we both drove and kinda became close friends again. Then we hit the U. And started spening a lot more time together...it was almost like we never missed a beat. We had both gone thru soooo much in the 7-8 years without being homies, but when we caught back up...it was like we hadn't seen each other for a weekend. I took my course path in philo and he went on to get his degree in English. He did his shizzz and I did mine...but at the end of the day we met up did whatever...and went home...just like when we were 12 all over again...Halfway through Uni though he transferred and left, ended up at Ryerson where he got his degree in Comm. He wanted to be the next Darrell Janz, but younger...haha...So again we drifted apart...and no big deal we were both adults now and it wasn't like we were crying and shit not like it was the end of the world you know. We had e-mail and cell phones, and long distance plans...it was totally cool...

But this time...it actually wasn't...We hardly kept in touch, didn't call nor write...no one's fault really...just how it panned out.

He moved back after school and we kinda got re-homied again...but I mean both our lives had changed a LOT since we were kids. We were both very different people...but we made an effort to still chill out every once in a while catch up do what we used to you know?? We were still pretty close to each others families. I mean we grew up together for almost 10 years in total you know??

And then I get a call about 3am on Thursday morning. His mom called to let me know that he took his own life that night. And the rest of the conversation I had with her for me at least is a blur. I know we spoke for about 10 mins...but I have no idea what i said or what she said. Once I hung up the phone, I just kinda got droessed and left to go over to their home. I mean I don't know who else they had called at that time or what...but he was the only man left in the household, his father left them a few years back and his lil sisters were probably in such a daze...so I figure I would go over and see if there was anything that I could do for them...I mean he was my boy you know??

That's a little bit of the background, but not where I wanna go with this thread. I am just trying to wrap my head around the fact that he took his own life, that he left whatever he has left un-done. I mean I have NO idea what was goin on in his head, or what was goin on in his life to allow him to come to his choice. So, I am NOT going to judge him, nor his actions.

But, where I do wanna go is Naseeb (in my mother's language) or Destiny. I mean we hear the phrase "It was written for him/her" ALL the time. But have we though about what it meant?? Most religions subscribe to the notion that God whoever he/she is has basically put our life on a timeline, and we are given a birthdate, and a death date, and a series of events to lead us from one date to the other. They had a Grief guy/Pastor swing by the house and talk to the family about the incident. And he was pretty chill, heard family members talking about him, and shit...and it got me to thinking...They talked about how he was selfish, how he commited the greatest sin...I mean just stuff that blew me away considering what had happened not more than 36 hours ago.

I know in Islam that taking your own life is considered to be one of the worst things you can do. And I know the same holds true for a few other of the major religions out there. I know this because I studied them in my Uni days. Anyhow, having said that, how is taking your own life wrong??

I am NOT talking from a "leaving your loved ones behind" aspect. I am talking about how if God has chosen your path, how is it not safe to say suicide was on that path?? God says you will die when you will die, and you really have no way of choosing your death, how can we not be sure that taking your own life was not what God had intended for you?? I know religion in of itself if FULL of contradictions. But how can it be wrong, if it is what God has intended for you. That's where I am trying to go with this thread. I mean I know it was very long winded to get to this point...But I felt it was needed for both a lil background and for me to vent off...

If you have dealt with this sort of thing...share your thoughts, your ideologies and morals. Hell, even if you havent please share what you think. I am not looking for sympathy...I mean I feel I am doing ok with it all and I am not gonna allow any bashing or that sort of thing...but just trying to get a feel for what others have been taught or brought up in...from all religions and vewpoints please...

Thanks for letting me have a little bit of your time beyonders...I do feel a LOT better now...


Arif.

[l8braker]

Sorry to hear about your loss.

[Fcuk]

I don't really have any opinion other than i hope you feel better, i know what it feels like to lose a homie. It's hard and really depressing... and you constantly think of the person.

Keep your head up

[Vagabond142]

First off, Arif... condolences and compassion for your loss. I've lost a friend to suicide before, but nowhere near as tightly knit as you two seemed, so believe me, I can understand the confusion, the pain and the disbelief that you are going or went through.

On the subject of destiny, I will first and foremost say that I am not a man of God, nor do I believe in God or religion. However, that does not preclude me from having an opinion on destiny and God, as you asked in your vent.

I think that, in your sense, if your friend lived a good life, was true to his friends and family, was caring, it does not matter HOW he died, he will be accepted to that better place. Now, I know that this is a touchy subject with the current events of the world right now, but I'm not even looking at it that way. I'm just saying that if he was a good man, then God will forgive him and welcome him to his kingdom with open arms.

I really don't know why or how suicide happens, as I've never had thoughts down that road myself, I just know that, as with my friend who took her own life, if they were a good person, then you can go on with your own life knowing that they are with you always in your head and in your heart.

[adam c]

i dunno why.. but that was a pretty powerful vent that u posted..

sorry for the loss that u have and im pretty devided on the whole suicide thing after reading this so im not sure what to say for now

[shawtie]

Sorry to hear that Arif!

Dont have much to say about religion, my dads a roman catholic, mom is a chirstian and grandparents are seventh day adventists.... I went though some pretty rough stuff growing up that had to do with religion....and it isnt my thing, like I belive that things happen for a reason.....everything happends for a reason.......a reason we have no control over. I dont however belive in god....

When I was young like 8 or so, I used to go to church with my grandparents, and they used to tell me that when its foggy outside go to the window and pray but be carful cause it could be the bad sprits and bad things will happen, I was told my parents were going to hell and everyone I knew was goign to hell, I used to be afraid that the devil was under my bed......it was really messed up sounds silly im sure but it really scared me when I was young..... now i just having nothing to do with any of that to me its crap but thats just what I think.

My greatgrandma had died when I was 10 and we were at the funeral and I asked my grandma is she was goignt o go to heaven and she flat out told no she is going to hell I cried for 2 weeks over that, she meant the world to me.

ok now im just babbling lol

[GTS Jeff]

Wow Arif, I had no idea you going through this sort of hardship. My condolences. I personally believe that life is what you make of it. With that said though, what's done is done, and I think that all there is left to do is to honour your homie's memory like you've done in your first post.

[Ben]

I'm anti-religion, however if I had to come up with any sort of reasoning and justification, it would be that when you kill yourself, you are cuting short whatever fate or destiny you had. Taking your own life is an unacceptable means of terminating your life force, and is not something that is taken into account by the gods or lifes natural path. It's making a decision for yourself (which is one of those things I wish more religious people would do, instead of relying on the good book or some preacher to make those decisions for us. I'm not saying I wish religious people should off themselves, just that some of them need to make more decisions for themselves in their every day lives. I know some religious people who's lives revolve around it 24 7 and it's rediculous because they get so wound up in "Would god approve" and "God would want me to do this", and "we need to show our devotion to god though prayer", which they do so for a good 90 percent of their waking lives, it's a little much.)


In any case. If I was religious, I would say that what your friend did was wrong was not in the works for him in the life that his god set out, and that he chose the ultimate way to go against his lord.

On a personal level Arif, *firm bidnezz handshake and hug* I'm sorry to hear about your loss, I too have been where you are, where out of the blue a friend of mine offed himself, his mother found him hanging from the rafters in the garage on her way to work one morning. This hit hard, as there was no leading up to it, no warning signs. It affected me for quite some time.

So yeah, I know it's tough, but cherish what you have had, and celebrate his life.

Ben

[Hakkola]

Sorry to hear man, that really sucks.

As for taking your own life, it's wrong, just like taking someone else's life is wrong.

As a somewhat religious person I have to say it's a sin to take your own life.

Even if I weren't religious it would be against my morals, I couldn't kill someone else unless it was self defense or in war etc... I see absolutely no reason to kill oneself.

Some people may say that if someone is in enough physical pain they should be allowed to kill themself, I won't comment on that. However it doesn't sound like that's why your friend commited suicide.

Again, sorry for your loss, that's a shitty way to lose a friend.

[Drew]

sorry to hear that, theres two ways to look at that i believe offer my opinion on what you asked.

IF you believe that god has a destiny for each and everyone of us, then some believe that commiting suicide is the only way of getting out of your destiny, the only way of not following what "god" had laid out for you and as such is why its considered a sin.

BUT if you believe that the action of suicide itself if part of the journey and destiny laid out for you then no, i don't think it should be frowned upon at all. The hardest thing is everyone believes something different. And because of that, a sin to one could be the greatest release to another. I'm not too sure whether i believe in god or not, but i am sure that i believe that each has there own path to follow, and as such i do believe that if god does exist, the saying "only god can judge me" is true to the fullest. No one will ever know why your friend did what he did, but i'm fairly certain he did have a reason, and whatever god he believed in will judge him as such and be the only entity that has the right too.

i know this sounds stupid but when someone dear to me passed away, something DMX of all people said made me realize peace:

"I know why god would want you closer to him/her"

[Weapon_R]

My condolences for your loss.

[EK 2.0]

Originally posted by Ben
In any case. If I was religious, I would say that what your friend did was wrong was not in the works for him in the life that his god set out, and that he chose the ultimate way to go against his lord.

Ben

Ben I totally know your viewpoint on religion. and yours was exactly the type of response I was looking for. I mean the whole God's plan thing...ok fine he took his life "underhis own will"...but who is to say his will was not God's will you know??...

Example...If I am supposed to die in a firey car crash on a wednesday morning...then will not God make sure that I get into my car on that Wednesday morning you know??...So who is to say suicide is wrong because maybe that is how God wants you to leave...that's what I do not understand...the contradiction

Originally posted by Drew
sorry to hear that, theres two ways to look at that i believe offer my opinion on what you asked.

IF you believe that god has a destiny for each and everyone of us, then some believe that commiting suicide is the only way of getting out of your destiny, the only way of not following what "god" had laid out for you and as such is why its considered a sin.

BUT if you believe that the action of suicide itself if part of the journey and destiny laid out for you then no, i don't think it should be frowned upon at all. The hardest thing is everyone believes something different. And because of that, a sin to one could be the greatest release to another. I'm not too sure whether i believe in god or not, but i am sure that i believe that each has there own path to follow, and as such i do believe that if god does exist, the saying "only god can judge me" is true to the fullest. No one will ever know why your friend did what he did, but i'm fairly certain he did have a reason, and whatever god he believed in will judge him as such and be the only entity that has the right too.

In all honesty, I don't know what I believe. I have said on here a MILLION times that if YOU feel YOU are practising YOUR religion or ideals to YOUR best ability then you are kosher and will end up in YOUR version of the "land of milk and honey". Now again, I mean whether it's re-incarnation, or thru the pearly gates with St. Peter, sitting in 7th heaven with Allah...whatever it is if you have practised your beliefs to the best of your own ability...does it mean that you are kosher and good to go or because you didn't follow to the letter of God's word that you are fubar'd.

Again examples...I am a Muslim, but I have tats...and those are wrong because this is not MY body it's on rent from Allah. And now I won't get my damage deposit back because I messed up the walls. Bt all the other aspects of my life I TRY to strive to be a good example of a Muslim. Well aside from eating pork haha...but do you know what I mean.?? Again not wanting to turn this into a religion debate...just trying to pick all of your brains to see what other ideologies there are out there...


And thank you for everyone's kind messages...

[Z_Fan]

Sudden and tragic is often how we describe these events. I don't buy into any religion bullshit, or destiny or fate or gods chosen path. But, I also don't care what others choose to believe in. It's their choice, and that's fine with me, as long as it doesn't harm others - it's all good.

I can tell you of two tragedies in my life - where people I thought I knew did unexplainable acts. One, a suicide. The other, a murder.

I grew up with this kid. We'll call him "Brad". Great kid, lived on my street. We played hockey together. Very quiet but normal. He grows up, his girlfriend cheats on him, and he brutally slits her throat OJ style and goes to jail for a life term.

Brad was normal. Brad, to me, was a good soul. He was from a broken home, but things seemed good when I was there. A couple months before this happened, I was out with a friend and a group of kids (5 or 6 of them) we're pushing us around. Brad happened to be in the same location (I hadn't seen him since we moved away, it'd been a few years). Brad happened to be extremely strong, and a skilled, trained fighter. He jumps in front of us, knocks two of these kids out cold and makes sure we're ok as the other kids back off. He protected his friends and we weren't yet under great threat. Friends that he hasn't seen in years. Yet two months later, he's slitting his girlfriends throat. I don't understand.

Suicide. A good soul, extremely kind person, decides life is not worth continuing. He is a neat freak. Everything is perfect. His suits line up in a row, everything has a specific place to be. Everything must be just right. He is bi-polar. His girlfriend dumps him, and he is unable to cope. He carefully plans his suicide, he researches and selects the bullets. Purchases the gun, ensures the gun is capable of effectively ending his life exactly as he imagines it. His note is written flawlessly, it's all on paper. He sets up his shotgun, inserts it into his mouth and ends his life in a blast of certainty. Teeth and fragments of skull is all that is to be found, and it must be scraped from the walls and roof. A honor student, brilliant mind, excellent job. His suicide was meticulously planned, not rushed or carried out impromptu-style. It wasn't a spare of the moment action. Like his life, it was indeed, perfectly executed. No one understood.

The point I guess is that really we don't know people as well as we may think. No matter how close we believe ourselves to be. Some people are simply incapable of dealing with the situations that arise in their lives. In those times of crisis, they are unable to raionalize their way through the problems. Ultimately, putting a final halt to their problems seems the only solution. It is very hard to understand or accept. Yet for these people, there is something very empowering to know they absolutely control their own fate. I believe their knowledge that they in fact can exercise absolute control over their fate gives them the hope that ending their life is in fact better than being left to deal with conditions they can not control.

I can guarantee that your buddy didn't just wake up and decide to end it. Something went terribly wrong in his life, something he was unable to accept or a perhaps he was unable to acquire control of the situation. Something so bad, that in his mind, suicide was an acceptable, justifiable solution.

I feel for you, and am sorry for your loss.

[DeeK]

Firstly, sorry for your loss Arif. I know what its like to lose a close friend.

Now, I could sit here and tell you everything that went on. How it happened. Exactly the fate how his life was decided. I could tell you everything. But it wouldn't mean anything or make sense.

I suggest you go read "Life on the Other Side" by Sylvia Browne. Things will make more sense after that. It deals with alot of these things. I dunno if you are a big reader or whatnot. But if you are looking for answers, there are quite a few in there.

[NATE0513]

I am truly very sorry to hear about your loss, it saddens me to even think about how you and your friends other loved ones may feel. What saddens me even more is the inner turmoil your friend was going through for him to feel like such rash actions needed to be taken. Many people have gone through things so intense in there life’s that the question of existence becomes a very real and internal issue.

So many people go through life worried about what other people think and feel, and as a society it seems we are ever conscious of that. Someone wise once told me that we think everyone is standing in judgment of us for our actions. It is truly the individual looking at you in the mirror that delivers the ultimate feeling of judgment.

I’m not a devout man of religion, in my studies and inner searching I’ve come to the conclusion that faith is truly within. We live in a very complex world with some very confused people, often a victim of there own environment. It breaks my heart to see kind, loving, and caring individuals compromising themselves for someone else’s belief.

Is it wrong to commit suicide? I can’t answer that question. The premise “feels” wrong, again I believe that answer is truly within. Is your friend off to a better place? I believe he is, and in his perception absolutely.

I wish you the best, I hope you can find the strength to get through this and make peace with it.

-NATE

[heavyD]

Originally posted by EK 2.0
So who is to say suicide is wrong because maybe that is how God wants you to leave...that's what I do not understand...the contradiction

First of all: My condolences.

Second of all: I don't believe in any religion for this exact reason. What kind of god would want a young man to take his life and leave nothing but grieving family & friends behind? Commiting suicide is not just cause for anything and serves no purpose whatsoever. The kicker is that all these people following their religions lead lives no better or worse than people like me that do not believe in it. You are going to die either buy being in the wrong place at the wrong time, by disease, or by natural causes. That is life. When someone takes their own life to me anyway is someone that needed help & didn't get it.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Before I get started, I'd like to extend my condolences to Arif. The loss of a friend, even one who you've grown apart from, is nothing to take lightly.

Well, to discuss this, I'm going to have to use a rather personal example:

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/...1/1608502.html


That article is about Norm. Norm lived around the corner from me when I lived in Bassano, and was one of my family's good friends and a childhood mentor of sorts. I was always fascinated by his projects and creations, and the amazing flying machines that he built.

As the article states, Norm was killed in a plane crash on May 30th while flying the replica WW2 spyplane that he built. He was 78.

What that article won't tell you is that Norm was predeceased by his infant daughter Mildred. I was not party to the gritty details, but it was well-known that Norm struggled during the time directly after the tragic death of his infant daughter - and who wouldn't? Imagine losing your young child through no fault of your own. In fact, it may be well and impossible to imagine such a feeling of loss.

Yet even after that, Norm carried on. He didn't take the easy way out by ending his life. He chose to cope with his loss, he chose to carry on under the burden of his grief. He took that pain and sadness and turned it around. He became a volunteer for the Shriners and spent the rest of his life dressing up as a clown from time to time and going to the children's hospital to cheer up the sick kids. He did this because he viewed it as the best way to honour his dauthers' memory, by bringing cheer to those who need it the most.

He died at 78, while flying, the thing he loved to do most. He lived a full life and will remain a gold standard of achievement and selflessness for those who knew him.

What I'm trying to get at here is that suicide is selfish and stupid and makes no sense at all. Who here can say that they would rather die by their own hand than while doing something they love? It's senseless. You cannot go through life without experiencing tradgedy or loss. Your parents will not live forever. Your cousins, brother, and sisters are human as well. You will experience loss, you will suffer through it. It will make you stronger, and it can drive you to be a better person. Suicide is the easy way out, the selfish way out. I could never kill myself knowing the suferring and sadness it would put my friends and family through. I don't know why Arif's friend did what he did, but what I do know is that he had a life ahead of him, and now he doesn't. And because of that, the person I feel the most sorry for is him. He'll never experience things he wanted to experience, he'll never do things he wanted to do, he'll never live the life he wanted to live. And that, I say, is the true tradgedy.

[doanashk]

First off I am sorry for your loss. Losing a loved one is oneof the hardest experiences to have.



I believe that if there is a God that it would allow us to choose the paths we have to follow. Every living thing has a beginning and a demise, it's what is in between those two points that matters. I honestly believe we have choices that we make everyday which impact the direction our life is heading. Your friend is not wrong, he is not right, he was following a path based on what his knowledge and experience told him. From everything he had experienced and everything he understood in his life to be true, he came to the conclusion that it was his time to pass on. In another aspect it may be your time to question life, death, religion and meaning but without your friend passing your search for answers may have come later or sooner then right now. And right now is what matters because right now is where life is. Hope that makes some sense.

[benyl]

Hey dude. Sucks to hear about your friend. Just over a year ago, my best friend killed himself (not on purpose). I know what the mix of emotions is like. http://www.cochranetimes.com/story.php?id=157494

some good thoughts in this thread... I thought I would give you mine.

From a religious standpoint, life is a gift given by God. To take the life of another or ones own life is like saying that gift is worthless.

Z_Fan mentions that something tragic must have happened to your friend. Christians believe that we are meant to suffer for our sins with hardship and pain throughout life. If so, taking his own life was "giving up" against the struggle.

In life, you have the freedom to choose. Some have faith that the decisions you make are all part of a "plan" that God has laid out. It is hard to understand (I don't) why we are given the choice to do bad things if they aren't part of the "plan."

I guess I am saying I don't have an answer for you. I don't know that anyone does except for God.

[Gondi Stylez]

I am sorry about your loss and I hope you get through the next while with great support from your family and friends.

I feel that commiting suicide is wrong and that your naseeb is overriden out once you end your life when it really isn't your time. This is the same feeling I have when you kill someone because that is ending a life prematurley. But let's say that the person killed was an innocent bystander or killed in the line of duty (ie. cop, firefighter...) then that is what God wanted for you and had that in your script.

I hope that makes sense?!

RIP Arif's hommie