yeh that group orgy scene is absolutely useless.. and it was LONG!
yeh that group orgy scene is absolutely useless.. and it was LONG!
There's like, 5 things wrong with that statement.Originally posted by Stratus_Power
yeh that group orgy scene is absolutely useless.. and it was LONG!
I haven't seen the movie yet though.
hahaha, so true... off topic tho; im definetly going to pick-up the soundtrack, ive downloaded a few techno and rock songs from Kazaa and it fucking wickedOriginally posted by Hakkola
There's like, 5 things wrong with that statement.
I haven't seen the movie yet though.
any1 know if the soundtrack is out yet? if not the release date? thanks
Your on crack. How can you call this movie trash?Originally posted by ConVict
I saw this trash last night. Wasnt worth my time or money. Not quite sure if it was all the hype or just the fact it sucked. I was expecting so much more
Lots of cool fight scenes but it got to the point I was like... come on this is pointless.
and this has already been explained but Smith isnt an agent anymore, which means he can leave the matrix. The guy at the end, the captians were talking about how they got ambushed and it was a slaughter. So yes Smith was in the guys body on the table at the end.
You can pick up the two CD set at Future Shop for something like 14 bucks! Great deal and great CD!Originally posted by Wildcat
hahaha, so true... off topic tho; im definetly going to pick-up the soundtrack, ive downloaded a few techno and rock songs from Kazaa and it fucking wicked
any1 know if the soundtrack is out yet? if not the release date? thanks
Peter
I haven't seen the two cd's yet but I heard that one is a "blue pill" cd and one is a "red pill" cd - one of them is exculsively rock and the other is dance/house music...Originally posted by Fluidic Digital
You can pick up the two CD set at Future Shop for something like 14 bucks! Great deal and great CD!
Peter
I imagine they're out at the same time as the movie...
From other forums...
403Gemini
1st Gear
Registered: Mar 2003
Location: Millrise
My Ride: '89 Tegger
Posts: 124
This is my and like 7 friends analysis on a forum so theres a few edits on here that probably wont make sense (ie "As shawn stated above.." just ignore stuff like that lol)
pre pare to have your mind blown:
HUGE SPOILER ALERT
Let's describe everyone and their real "roles" in the Matrix.
Morpheus: Morpheus, the God of Dreams, is the one who believes in the supernaturalesque "THE ONE" prophecy. He gives everyone a dream to believe in. In addition, like the Serpent from the Garden of Eden Story, he offers the Fruit of Knowledge to anyone who will take it. This is important and is the first key in what else we have hypothesized, so remember it. He is the one who hands out the Knowledge of Good and Evil. He gives everyone a choice at attaining "Free Will". Like the Serpent, though, he doesn't FORCE anyone to take it. He simply offers it.
The Architect: Obviously supposed to be the God figure. He is an older, Caucasian male with a white beard in a white suit. You go to him by passing a "door of light" (Go into the Light....). He tells Neo that there have been FIVE other Zions and FIVE other Neos before him. He is the one that explains who Neo is and what his "function" is. Ergo...if the Architect is God....he really can't be "evil". Remember this as it is ALSO important. (Also, if he were evil, he would not have offered paradise initially...the Garden of Eden or Heaven...which was the first Matrix and no one could accept.) He, also, expects everyone to follow a set of rules....just like any program...just like any deity.
Oracle: The Oracle is a Logging Program. She is NOTHING important, people. NOTHING. She simply hasn't been "erased" everytime the Matrix has been "reloaded". In other words, she has a log of everything that has happened before. That's why she seems to have ESP like powers. She ADMITS to being a program (duh) in the scene in the park with the Ravens. She is only telling Neo what has already happened...and will happen again. It's happened 5 times before. Neo is a program (we find this out from The Architect) and he is programmed to behave in a specified way. He will always behave in this way. The Oracle has seen it 5 times and not been erased, so she isn't supernatural. She's just a program that has logged what happened before. Forget her. She's lost her mystique at this point.
Persephone: Persephone is the "mother" of the Matrix. NOT the Oracle as Shawn misquoted above. Persephone, like her namesake, is the catalyst for 'renewal' of the Matrix. Like the Goddess of Spring, Persephone appears to restart the Matrix. She is, also, likely the main emotional matrix for the entire system. She has not been erased before. We find this out from The Architect. She delivers (every time) the Key Maker to Neo. The Key Maker sends Neo to the Architect and Neo "restarts" the Matrix EVERY SINGLE TIME, thinking (erroneously) that he's "saving" Zion in the process. You'll see more when we get to Neo below.
Agent Smith: Right now, he's the ONLY "person" with true free will within the Matrix. He, also, figures out quickly that there is no "outside". He tries to tell Neo this when he says, "We can never be free. You just don't realize it, yet." Smith and Neo have some type of connection and are really a part of each other. More than likely, they will have to overcome their dislike for one another in order to take down the entire system (since Smith is really the only person "outside" the control of the system right now). I'm not really sure where they'll go with him.
Zion: It's not a person, but it's important that you see where this is going so you'll see where Neo fits into the picture.
Let's look at this for a second, shall we?
Zion...Biblical place of importance to the Jewish people. Zion in the Matrix is the following: 1. DEEP underground 2. Run on steam and geothermal heat (from the Engineering scene) 3. Full of people who worship Neo (literally) 4. Full of people who were literally having full blown orgies together (during the party scene). 5. Has been destroyed by the Architect's forces before...and will again. 6. As we know (from the end sequences when Neo suddenly realizes he can "manifest power" in the Zion "world"...ala...the 3rd Matrix....) that Zion is really only a portion of the Matrix made by the Architect for "rogue programs" and exiles. During the movie, there's a portion where they discuss what happens to programs that go rogue. They either return to the source and are deleted, are exiled (to Zion) by choice, or hide (from the Agents). We KNOW Neo is a program. (from the Architect) If Neo is a program, it stands to reason that many of the others in Zion are also. Therefore, Zion is NOT "outside" (as Smith tried to point out to Neo). Zion is the third Matrix, built to give the "rogue" programs their chance at "free will". 7. Morpheus points out during his "pep talk" that they are not in Zion because of where they will go, but because of the things they've already done. Their actions put them there.
Hell (Biblically) is the following: 1. Deep Underground 2. Hot 3. Full of people who do not worship God and do not follow rules assigned by God 4. Full of people who wallow in filth (look at how nasty Zion is...dirty and falling apart) and sin (full blown orgies)...and who "demanded" the right to Knowledge (Morpheus' pill) as Adam and Eve did in the Garden...and who wanted "free will" from God's reign. (The theme of "what is control?" that runs through the second movie). 5. Was emptied before by God and will be again (in Revelation when all the damned souls will be sent to the lake of fire and brimstone...deleted...literally).
What were the three levels of the Matrix? Level 1 (that occurred first): Heaven or the Garden of Eden...where everything was paradise and man's "mind" could not comprehend it.
Level 2 (the 1990s Earth of Mr. Andersen's hacker existence): Earth...where everyone has a chance to run their lives and live out their "programmed existences".
Level 3 (Zion): The place where the rogue programs and exiles go...the ones who choose to fight The Architect. The ones who do not follow their programming protocols, desire free will, wallow in sin, and continue to fight everything. Zion is Hell, folks. It's where the Architect "sends" or allows rogue programs to go when they do not want to follow the rules of the Earth Matrix. They go to hell. Too many corresponding similarities to deny it.
Okay, so Neo...Neo is supposed to "save Zion". From Whom? The Architect and his machine minions. If Architect is God...and Zion is Hell...and Neo is being worshipped as a "savior". Doesn't that make Neo the Anti-Christ? Lucifer was originally a rogue angel...it's not surprising that Neo is a rogue program, an anomaly. Just as Lucifer was the most powerful of all God's angels and the most beautiful, Neo is an extremely powerful program. This last Neo, also, is number SIX. Six being the number of Satan in Hebrew Numerology. (Yeah...told you that you should've been paying attention. There's a helluva lot of Biblical references in the movie...betcha most of you didn't know.)
So, Neo...the man you're all rooting for...is DESTINED to fail. He's, also, failed 5 times before (as Lucifer failed and was thrown from Heaven). Anyone who has heard anything about the 3rd movie's "supposed" storyline knows that Neo fails and Zion is destroyed. Zion is supposed to be destroyed. That's all Neo is...an agent of destruction.
Neo, also, is destined to make the 7th Zion. He was originally supposed to pick 23 people to start the new Zion after the machines destroy the 6th one. He decides to save Trinity's life (thereby dooming Zion anyway). EITHER WAY, ZION FALLS.
Neo is very possibly the Anti-Christ. Also, if Bane DOES succeed in attempting to kill Neo in the 3rd movie...and Neo "lies in state for 3 days, but awakens", I think we can all say without any argument that he is what I propose him to be.
Neo could, also, possibly be a manifestation of Adam (with Trinity as Eve) where Morpheus tempts them into entering the Matrix. If so, Neo remaking Zion is just like Adam and Eve being the first people to sin and enter the world.
If Neo does turn out to be the Christ Figure that they've been trying to obviously make him out to be, that would mean Cypher from the first movie must've been Judas. However, I still don't buy that Neo is the Christ Figure yet. He seems more likely to be something a bit more "Anti-God" than Jesus was made out to be, seeing as Neo deliberately is attempting to overthrow the Architect.
And it should be noted that the Anti-Christ will be seen as a "savior" of sorts when he first makes his appearance on the scene. He will be, mistakenly, seen as the Messiah by the Jews (just as the people of Zion see Neo). He will directly cause the end of the world by leading open rebellion against God. Then, God will allow a "New Heaven and Earth" to be made after the Anti-Christ is defeated. This seems to follow the path more closely to what Neo's destiny has been described. He will appear as a Savior. He is worshipped erroneously (the blessing and offering scene in Zion) by the people. Then, he leads open rebellion against God. He falls and the Earth is destroyed in the process (Zion is destroyed regardless of Neo's attempt to save it by rebelling against the Architect). However, God allows a NEW Heaven and Earth to be built...and a new hell, more than likely...just as Neo is to pick the next 23 people to inhabit the new Zion.
Regardless, Neo is definitely not the "savior" that everyone was hoping he would be.
Other interesting "facts" of the Matrix:
1. There's likely no real humans any longer. Probably no real machines...only the Matrix. Reason: The Oracle says, "All your mythologies about werewolves, vampires, ghosts, and UFOs are really just older, rogue programs." If all of our "mythologies" are nothing more than programs and those things are "older" than old, it's likely that the "humans" are not real either. Neo, as we find out, is a program. Many of the others are, also, just programs with some sort of emotional subroutine (given them likely by their "mother" Persephone). This means that there are no humans hooked up to fields of batteries. There are no real machines. The only machine that exists any longer is The Matrix itself.
This is the answer to the question in the First Movie of "What is Real?" Nothing is real except the Matrix itself. ("What you need to realize is that there is no spoon." The Spoon Analogy reappears in the 2nd movie, also, right before Neo goes to speak to the Oracle. It is brought to Neo by the annoyance from one of the "orphans", who said that Neo would understand what it meant. The Orphan must've been the child from the first movie, but how can this be? The child in the first movie never left the Matrix. It is an indication that the two Matrices are not really that different from one another. They are still all in the same computer. They sometimes even blend...like when Agent Smith infects one of the "operators" in Neo's dream.)
Neo is not real. Trinity is not real. NO ONE is real. They are all "memories", programs in the machine, that continue to relive the same programmed lives over and over ad infinitum. Neo shows up anytime there's enough chaos in the entire system...and "reloads" it, thinking he's "saving" the world every time, but he's not.
Anyone who reads Philosophy can identify this as the Allegory of the Cave. What is Real? The Shadow only or the Manifestation?
2. The Lady and the Tiger shows up in the decision scene. This is really just one of those things we wanted to point out in case anyone cared. Neo must choose between two no-win situations. Either way, he loses and Zion is destroyed.
3. Neo's First Question to the Architect: "Why Am I Here?" is a question that mankind has been asking God forever. The Architect, basically, answers Neo with the standard answer of "You are here to fulfill your purpose." Is this pre-destination? Yes, I'm guessing it would be since it happened 5 times before.
4. Biblical or Mythological Names that show up in the Film:
Zion: (other than the obvious meaning of the place where Jerusalem was eventually built by King David), it means (also) "An Imaginary place of perfection and idealism"
Icarus (the first ship that stays near the surface to access the "Earth" matrix and is destroyed first...like Icarus from the story who flew too close to the sun after he was warned and overlooked that warning...and died for his stupidity)
Nebachadnezzar: Babylonian King of renown who threw Meshach, Shadrach and Abedago into the fiery furnace. Nebachadnezzar was cursed by God with madness (possibly Lycanthropy) for being too prideful and vain (notice that Niobe was, also, punished for vanity and pride).
Morpheus: God of Dreams who lost his son, Orpheus, to the Harpies due to his own vanity and pride. Orpheus became an Oracle after his death...basically a bodiless head. Morpheus, also, had the power to change anything in a person's dreams that he wished and he had the power to send his 2 brothers into other people's dreams to change things as well. (Like Morpheus had the power to send people into the Level 2 Matrix in the movie).
Trinity (the Trinity is usually referring to God (the Father), Jesus (the son), and the Holy Spirit)
The Oracle
Persephone: Goddess of Springtime and Renewal. She was forced to marry Hades and remain for 6 months out of every year in his realm for eating 6 pomegranate seeds there.
Niobe (the woman who did not have humility and had all of her children and husband killed by Apollo for her arrogance and vanity)
Seraph (meaning Angel)
Other interesting name meanings:
Soren (Captain of the Icarus) is probably named after Soren Kierkegaard, Danish Philosopher. He was an existentialist...and wrote such profound things as the following:
Far from idleness being the root of all evil, it is rather the only true good. Soren Kierkegaard
Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards. Soren Kierkegaard
People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use. Soren Kierkegaard
The Logos (Niobe's Ship): coming from Logos (noun): 1 : the divine wisdom manifest in the creation, government, and redemption of the world and often identified with the second person of the Trinity 2 : reason that in ancient Greek philosophy is the controlling principle in the universe
Logos is, also, a type of Psychological Thought started by Frankel that follows a precept of Humanism/Existentialism.
Logos is, also, used to mean "The Word of God" (in reference to Jesus Christ) in the New Testament. It, also, meant "The Law".
At any rate, there are many such unusual names with philosophical, mythological, or Biblical references.
Also, the name Neo (in addition to meaning "New") is an anagram of the word "One". I think this name meaning is pretty well known, but felt I should mention it. So, Neo means "New One". Nothing too big, but eh.
5. Philosophical Questions Broached by The Matrix: A. What is Real? (A fundamental Philosophical argument) B. What is Control? (What is free will?) C. Why are we here? D. Are we predestined to behave in a certain way, regardless of our desire to do otherwise?
6. Religious Precepts brought out in The Matrix: A. Past Lives B. Reincarnation C. Levels of Existence (Heaven, Earth, Hell) D. A Overgod who determines the fate of the "world" and all who inhabit it. E. Spiritual Renewal through Destruction of what is Unholy F. Predestination G. The Path is more important than the destination
__________________
"Sticks and stones may break my bones.... BUT HOLLOW POINTS EXPLODE ON IMPACT!!!!!!"
And...
EvilNeon
Red Light
Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Calgary
My Ride: 1998 Neon MTX Sedan
Posts: 27
On a similar note, with some slight variances...
http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm
Good one tho.
I still think there is a 'real world', but we have only seen a matrix within a matrix. The outer matrix is used to catch all the garbage that is cleaned out of the 'primary matrix' and the reload is not unlike emptying the recycle bin in Windows.
Don't forget the punishment of the Pagans, or those who would worship false gods, which Neo turned out to be - they were all destroyed. The orgy scene was very Pagan-esque.
At one point I had thought that the destruction of Zion was like the fall of Babylon; they were being punished for their pride and sin. However I couldn't piece enough other stuff in to truly substantiate that.
And...
EvilNeon
Red Light
Registered: Apr 2003
Location: Calgary
My Ride: 1998 Neon MTX Sedan
Posts: 27
Yeah, I had that same thought. He will wake up from a dream in his cubicle and say, "Whoa".
Then millions of movie goers will kill them all.
quote:
Nebachadnezzar: Babylonian King of renown who threw Meshach, Shadrach and Abedago into the fiery furnace.
So with this we know the operator dude has gotta die, as his woman said she already lost two brothers to that ship.
The little hampster was running particularly fast today as well. I was thinking about the anagrams of Neo. Another anagram is eon, which is often referred to as an age of something. Here we have the only three defined anagrams: Neo, One, Eon. One Neo per age? HmMmMmmM..
Of course, another anagram is Eno, which is an antacid - something everyone will need if it turns out to be a dream.
WHOA.
"All these years I thought it was power that brought responsibility. It's not. I was wrong. It's responsibility that brings power. It's knowing what needs to be done that brings strength. And courage." - Peter Parker, Earth X
wicked, im goin out to but that right now, thanksOriginally posted by Fluidic Digital
You can pick up the two CD set at Future Shop for something like 14 bucks! Great deal and great CD!
Peter
OMFGOriginally posted by mwmhong
WHOA.
I think I just had information overload
I am user #49Originally posted by rage2
Shit, there's only 49 users here, I doubt we'll even break 100
i managed to catch some of the Biblical/historical allusions...
but not nearly as much as that! holy! major brainstorms to make up that movie!!
Originally posted by ashee
What's 30 grand when you're buying a BMW, M6 please.
Oooh the irony.Originally posted by t-im
You sound like the type of guy who would buy a C-Class just so you could tell people you have a Benz.
Didja know Pulp Fiction was a biblical allegory too?
With the biblical stuff in mind the rave doesn't seem as silly as it did while watching the movie.
I have an inkling that perhaps in the third movie Neo might take on a 'Moses' like role. Leading the people to the promised land and facing the battle of armegeddon (as was mentioned above).
That last post from evil neon kinda contradicts the post from the blue NEOn.
The first one says that the oracle found the way (love) to get neo to make the right choice to break out of the cycle..
The second one says the cycle will never break and this neo isn't really any different right?
They both seem believable!
animatrix comming out June 3, it tells the story of the beginning part of the Matrix but through an anime series. it is part of the official matrix. i watched some of it so far from its site.
Humans built machines to do their everyday work. One day a machine was threatened to be destroyed by its master, however, the machine developed a human trait in which it did not want to be destroyed. The machine murdered the master and the family. Once the humans saw this, they immediately destroyed the machine and all the machines of its type, however since it had a human trait with the desire to live, the argument of not giving the machine a fair trial stands. Machines rose up to fight against this movement to destroy B type machines. Since machines did most of a human's job, they were able to fight back, but humans were able to push the machines back and outcast them from a once was human/machine society. Machines moved to build their own town. 01 was the machine town that prospered and the economy of 01 was higher than any human town, and the humans were looking at an economical disaster. Harmony between the two sections was lasting, but because of human behavior, the United Nations took action to contain 01, in hopes of riding machines and their dominance over the human race. 01 sent ambassadors to the United Nations hoping for an agreement to live in harmony with one another, but no human would accept it. Because of a human's faulty, humans have lead to their own destruction. After the war, the Matrix was developed, and the AI of the machines in 01 were beginning to become better and better as they developed human traits to improve their capabilities. Zion was the last of the human cities, and this is where the Matrix began, a simple, peaceful program that hoped to bring humans and machines together.
I agree there there could be some contradictory items when predicting what the third movie will contain. It makes perfect sense that it is all a cycle of a given program, that there is really no escape and that man is the bringer of his own doom. Unfortunately that is not a very hollywood ending.
To please the touchy feely, 'isn't life great' escapism most of the drones expect from a movie Neo must triumph, but not without expense.
I did notice, in the second movie, some lame-ing out of the story for the sake of those who couldn't understand it. There were a number of scenes where the characters bluntly explained what happened in the previous scene in simple bite-sized terms. It really pissed me off when Lucas did exactly that in the new Star Wars trilogy, and to a lesser extent in LOTR. Granted, it does keep the theatre quiet as you don't have people coming back from a pee-break saying 'what did I miss?'
wow..so many thoughts...
well get this...
maybe the matrix is inside the matrix, thats why neo has gay powers out side of it. aahah, what if "neo" is day dreaming on the computer at work...