No More Manual Audis

[schocker]

So I came accross this story on the 'tex, it isnt sounding good. I always liked the A4's and such, but soon the only manuals will be the S/RS models. I guess DSG would be ok, but if you want a manual, the choice shouuld be there
LINK FOR STORY

[Canmorite]

Laaaaaaaaame!

[hjr]

hard to argue, most people dont care...

[tapout]

that sucks

[Cruz]

Originally posted by hjr
hard to argue, most people dont care...

Disagree completely. Many people going for a luxury European car do care.

[Orbie]

Originally posted by Cruz


Disagree completely. Many people going for a luxury European car do care.

Many people might care but not as many as the people who actually go through with buying an automatic style transmission. Keep in mind this is only for the mainstream Audi's where obviously the higher percentage of sales are automatics due to the demographic. For the ethusiast models S/RS they definitely will offer manual because the small demographic that actually buys these cars are enthusiasts that do care. Personally I don't think they should stop offering it, maybe make it an option. But then again I'm not privy to Audi's financial information and don't know how much money they would recover by concentrating on assembling automatic only cars for the NA market.

[gp36912]

^^^ less engineering time spent on having designed purely automatic, means they dont have to design a chasis that mounts both the manual and auto tranny.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Cruz
Disagree completely. Many people going for a luxury European car do care.

I disagree with you here.

Of the 8 or so people I know shopping for a new M5, none wanted the 6 speed manual model. These are your typical luxury sedan buyers, who can afford it (not the kids drooling over 'em) and they all want SMG/DSG type transmissions, which offer manual control with perfect up and downshifts, and comfort associated with auto shifting during rush hour when commuting to and from work.

OK so you might argue that this is the luxury market... how about actual sports cars? Ferrari sells 90% of their cars with the F1 transmission, and only 10% with a manual. This is from CUSTOMER DEMAND (excluding enzo which is F1 only). Even the manual happy european market the SMG/F1/DSG transmissions are being favored over the manuals. The advantages of MT over AT (back in the day) were fuel economy and better performance. With the SMG/F1/DSG and even the new breed of autos, that advantage is gone. What you get is a clutchless transmission that gives a driver full control of gear selection, perfect shifts, and in some cases, better fuel economy as the MT counterpart.

I've already joined the clutchless camp years ago. I'm a better, faster, and safer driver because of it. Sure it's fun to row thru the gears once in a while, but I can't see myself driving a MT car everyday ever again.

[rage2]

Originally posted by gp36912
^^^ less engineering time spent on having designed purely automatic, means they dont have to design a chasis that mounts both the manual and auto tranny.

Nah, in BMW's case, the SMG and MT transmission (prior to new M5/M3) were identical transmissions, except the clutch was controlled hydraulically instead of with a pedal. The costs of support both transmissions are very minimal.

[pinoyhero]

If they can put something together similar to the smg of the BWN then they shouldn't loose many sales over it. The RS line however should really stay manual.

[rage2]

Originally posted by pinoyhero
If they can put something together similar to the smg of the BWN then they shouldn't loose many sales over it. The RS line however should really stay manual.

They're already using the dual clutch DSG transmission, which is WAY better than SMG/F1 type transmissions. Currently, only VW/Audi group cars have DSG, but expect BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari to have DSG transmissions available in the next 3 or so years.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by rage2

They're already using the dual clutch DSG transmission, which is WAY better than SMG/F1 type transmissions. Currently, only VW/Audi group cars have DSG, but expect BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari to have DSG transmissions available in the next 3 or so years.

Surprisingly, you can add Ford and Volvo to that list.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/04/v...their-own-dsg/

[Altezza]

Originally posted by Cruz


Disagree completely. Many people going for a luxury European car do care.

Go to BMW or Audi and ask what proportion of manual vs auto vehicles they sell. You'll see there aren't a lot of them to choose from.

[R-Audi]

“It’s conceivable in the U.S. we may dispense with manuals,” Johan de Nysschen, executive vice president of Audi of America Inc., says."

Conceivable means possibility.... that this COULD happen. Not that this IS happening.

From personal experience with my Dad.. he wouldnt purchase a manual car again, and loved that performance vehicles like the M5 were equipped with a clutch pedal-less transmission. I dont see them completely getting rid of manuals.. but instead charging extra for them, as the trend and technology is definitely leaning away from rowing...

[Alpine Autowerks]

a large driving force behind this is emissions ... allowing the driver to rapidly change the throttle (transients) during shifts causes problems. when the computer controls all ...then the software can cut fuel, throttle angle and more in a more precise manor.

[treg50]

Originally posted by Cruz

Disagree completely. Many people going for a luxury European car do care.

Going for any luxury car, I like DSG/Tiptronic/semi-automatic, etc. Manuals are low-tech. Take it from F1 cars. Race technology filtering down to production cars. AT shifts faster than any human can shift a MT. This is nothing new. Clutch paddles behind the steering wheel is intelligent: keeps both hands on the wheel.

Why don't F1 designers use manual transmissions? MT's are slow and inefficient.

As an example, Porsche 911 Turbo is faster with automatic transmission than with manual (click).

[gp36912]

Originally posted by rage2

Nah, in BMW's case, the SMG and MT transmission (prior to new M5/M3) were identical transmissions, except the clutch was controlled hydraulically instead of with a pedal. The costs of support both transmissions are very minimal.

that is a good point, yes but... this is audi, i thought their manual tranny is different than their dsgs.

[95EagleAWD]

So long as it's not a torque converter setup, I'm all for automated manuals.

[403Gemini]

lol rage a lot of people who are quite enthusiastic about european cars are generally european. and well, its pretty much a known fact they prefer manual over there vs our lazy asses here.

that "8 or so" people you are talking about probably dont want the car to be enthusiastic about it, but rather are people with too much money and just want the BMW logo

[rage2]

Originally posted by 403Gemini
lol rage a lot of people who are quite enthusiastic about european cars are generally european. and well, its pretty much a known fact they prefer manual over there vs our lazy asses here.

*ahem*

Originally posted by rage2
Even the manual happy european market the SMG/F1/DSG transmissions are being favored over the manuals. The advantages of MT over AT (back in the day) were fuel economy and better performance. With the SMG/F1/DSG and even the new breed of autos, that advantage is gone. What you get is a clutchless transmission that gives a driver full control of gear selection, perfect shifts, and in some cases, better fuel economy as the MT counterpart.

Originally posted by 403Gemini
that "8 or so" people you are talking about probably dont want the car to be enthusiastic about it, but rather are people with too much money and just want the BMW logo

Yea, 2 of the 8 guys I've met at track days. I'm not known to hang out or chat with label whores.