Is my builder gouging me? - GFCI plugs

[TDA]

I wanted to add a electrical plug outlet in my bathroom (new condo to be built) since I want to plug in some additional things near the toilet. There is already a GFCI outlet near the counter/sink in the bathroom. They already were charging me a rather high fee of $75 for this additonal plug outlet.

Now they call me back months later and say they can't do it because its a bathroom and it requires a GFCI outlet instead of a standard outlet. They want to double the charge to $150.

Aren't they supposed to be responsbile for this - I asked for a plug they said no problem, and only now after everything is signed they hit me for more money? It's not like they're adding a seperate breaker - the plug can simply run off the same GFCI circuit as the existing GFCI. - and running off the same circuit only incurs the extra GFCI outlet hardware cost, which im seeing on the web as 10$ over a regular outlet cost.

Is this additional charge reasonable?

[clem24]

Usually there is only 1 or 2 GFCI circuits in the entire house. In the house we just built, the GFCI circuit in the master is shared with the one in the main floor 1/2 bath and upper main bath. So if the circuit trips in the ensuite, I have to run to the upper main bath to reset it. So it should be running off the same circuit (should just be a wire from the counter outlet and an additional electrical box).But then again, maybe they do have a add something special to it.

I am not too familiar with condos though. Just ask them what they're installing. If it's just wires and a box, then yah you're getting jacked. If it's a seperate circuit, then it sounds right.

What the heck do you need another plug by the toilet for?? Want to put a TV there?

[Weapon_R]

I think code requires a GFCI plug, but I remember paying around $30 for the outlet from home depot

[Oz-]

I just bought 2 GFCI plugs for ~$10 each at Home Depot.

[Frosty]

Originally posted by TDA


Is this additional charge reasonable?

In terms of work and cost involved, no. They should have just run a jumper from the existing plug to the new one, everything "downstream" from the GFCI plug (on the load side) will be protected. Then all you need is a decora plug at the new location for esthetic continuity and you're good to go

But...

Builders make their highest % on changes, some WILL try to hose you. I'd complain and explain why. The worst they can do is say no, so what do you have to lose really?

[frozenrice]

What stage is the condo at? If you're adding it in after the fact it will be more since the electrician has come and gone. The price they're quoting you does seem steep but you also can't use Home Cheapo as your pricing benchmark. Their price is just the outlet itself which doesn't include the metal box, the cover plate, the wiring to the outlet or labour to run the wire.

[Oz-]

Originally posted by frozenrice
What stage is the condo at? If you're adding it in after the fact it will be more since the electrician has come and gone. The price they're quoting you does seem steep but you also can't use Home Cheapo as your pricing benchmark. Their price is just the outlet itself which doesn't include the metal box, the cover plate, the wiring to the outlet or labour to run the wire.

GFIC plug - $10
Receptacle box - $1.50
Decora cover plate - $2
Romex - say it is $50 bucks worth at HD, the contractor gets it for much cheaper.

That still leaves the electricians time at $100, guess you are paying for some skilled tradesmen at that rate.

[Masked Bandit]

Is it a fair price? No.


Should you pay it anyway? Yes


After building new twice and in the middle of my third I've come to expect the builder to rob me blind. However, what you have to consider is the pain in the ass factor to do it yourself after you take possession. Really...it's only $150, just pay it.

[TDA]

Originally posted by clem24

What the heck do you need another plug by the toilet for?? Want to put a TV there?

Japanese Toilet...

I called the builder and tried to get her to explain why.. she couldn't explain to me why.. just said it was required. (Which I do understand) I told her that they can simply extend the plug downstream, and asked if the charge included a complete seperate GFCI circuit back to the breaker box and a breaker. She had no answer.

Condo is in the framing stage.

Anyways at that point I had enough and told her to forget about the extra outlet. Then she tried telling me she cannot, then it would make my bathroom illegal, as all bathrooms need a GFCI plug. I had to explain to her that all bathrooms come with GFCI plugs as standard and I was simply asking for an extension.

I told her simply to get versed on the topic and get back to me on that.

It just comes down to asethetics really, stringing a extension cord from the counter wall GFCI outlet to the toilet area vs a nice convenient plug behind the toilet.

[IScarecroW300]

If the recepticle is within 1.5 meters of the sink or bath tub then it will need to be GFCI protected. If not, then you can just use a regular plug. Also, if the plug is specifically used for the toilet, and the toilet is stationary you can use a regular plus as well, provided that the plug is inaccesable from pluging other things in like if you wanted a toaster bath or something.lol

If you have a electrical code book, read 26-700(11)

As for pricing. People are freaking cheap. Society doesnt realize that we are skilled tradespeople. We have to know quite a bit of information about electricity. A lot of people think tradespeople are just dumbasses swinging hammers who work for beer. I garentee you that for the amout of information we need to know, we are the least paid trade. Freaking drywallers make like 25/hr. Pay the 150. Its acutally a really good price. Ive see upwards of 200 to install a plug. It always costs more when you have to to something a second time.

[TDA]

I agree It's not THAT bad, what I have issue is with the "75 for a plug, no problem, you want it there, no problems, sign off on this"

Then 2 months later saying "yo, we need double the price now." and giving me misleading and inaccurate information that they need a separate GFCI circuit, breaker box and wiring when we all know in reality they will just extend it downstream off the main GFCI in the bathroom.

I agree tradespeople are skilled. I have nothing against tradespeople.

The *builder* will still pay the tradesperson the 25-50 to install it and pocket the rest for themselves.

[frozenrice]

You've got me curious. What kind of Japanese toilet are you talking about? What are the electrical requirements and is it CSA approved? Post a picture or a link. There are a lot of cool Japanese innovations when it comes to home stuff.

BTW, to those who still can't understand why builder's charge so much more than Home Depot, try getting them to come out and install it. "You can do it, we can help" doesn't mean "we'll do it for you". It's more like "We'll help you fuck it up and then you can call in the real pros to fix it".

[IScarecroW300]

The builder shouldn't take a profit from it I dont think. It is just charged as an extra and the electrical contractor will to the job and just charge the builder the price. The builder pays him and you pay the builder.

And yes, I do agree with you than it was dumb of them to go back and charge you more from the first quote. Some people will try and screw you. Just make sure you know your stuff and then that will help is dealing with them.

[bignerd]

The only reason builders charge so much is that fact that no one complains, and even if thy do they really dont care because they already sold you the property. With this sudden increase in sales they dont have to care and can charge what they want, I always like how the builders can place the blame on the trades and the cost involved when they shaft the trades and the soon to be home owners at the same time.

I would tell them that what they quoted you should stand, because if you signed off on something they would not let it go and neither should you. That is the whole problem everyone caves and belives that it is OK to roll over and take it. If you make a deal with someone DO NOT back track and keep your integrity intact. Nothing more I hate than people who try to take advantage of a situation full well knowing that most people will just give in.

[TDA]

http://www.totoneorest.com/home.html

This is the ultimate japanese toilet... self closing seat (and raising I think), heated seat, anti-odour thing, warm water washer, hot air dryer, etc etc...

http://www.washlet.com/default.asp

But basically the idea is a higher hygiene standard... instead of using toilet paper which really doesn't clean 100%, use this automatic washer jet and dryer...


Basically, no more skidmarks!


As for electrical requirements, 110-120V, 60hz, same as us. They have north American distributors... CSA - no idea.

[frozenrice]

That's pretty dope. I don't know if I'd be used to getting a jet of water up my butt though.

I agree that they should stick to the original quoted price. It's apparent that the person you are dealing with doesn't have a clue what she's talking about. She's just there to sell and the technical details are probably a bit over her head. Likely she quoted you a price at the beginning not knowing the details and when they found out excatly what it was being used for, they probably had to to reconsider.

Electricans, correct me if I'm wrong but for the price it sounds like it would have to be a seperate circuit GFCI. If I'm not mistaken, certain electrical outlets that are intended for specific uses are usually on seperate circuits like water softners, garberators, jetted tubs, washing machines. Perhaps this toilet falls into this category.

[TDA]

Well, they don't know what it's being used for - I just told them to put an additional plug here, behind the toilet.

[clem24]

I've been to Japan... Those toilets are nice, but I always wondered how much energy they use up since they need to keep a warm water reservoir.

Watch out for the high setting... It is so powerful that it actually hurts. The positioning of the jets is very accurate though. Seems to hit the bulls eye everytime. And call me ghey, but having a warm stream of water on ya is kinda nice, especially after the runs.

Anyway, sounds to me like you're dealing with an idiot. Talk to the sales rep.. Or is she the sales rep? Did you actually buy the condo, or are you leasing? The other option is to run the wire yourself, but don't hook it up to anything; just leave it in the box (make sure you buy correct code cabling). Then after you move in, splice into the GFCI circuit.

On that topic, now is also the time to consider running your own cabling if that's allowed, like speaker wire (i.e. surround sound), video cables (go VGA, DVI, Svid, Composite!), RG6, and cat5. Even though my house was already wired for cat5 and RG6 to ALL rooms, I still put in my own so that each room has 2 independent outlets for RG6 and cat5 x 2 (one for network, the other for phone). This allows me to have flexibility with desk/bed placement etc...

[TDA]

She's the boss sales rep...

And I'm buying the condo - and they won't let me in there to do my own wiring... not allowed on site I'm sure.

[clem24]

Have you even asked or are you just assuming? Although I suppose it's quite different for a Condo than a house. I think you're screwed. Just pay the $150, install the outlet, and get it over with.