How old do you believe the Earth is, roughly.

[LuxCars]

Originally posted by Hoey
The bible is becoming more false everyday simply because of the fact that people continue to interpret it and alter it to fit/suit their specific needs. To say you beleive in God and Evolution is killing the very thing youre fighting for in this thread.

Religion is so false now and sometimes corrupt that following it is in my opinion a false hope.

FACT: did you know that back in the day Catholics made a "rule" that you could "pay" off your sins? You could steal and pay 5 bucks(eg. im unsure of the amount) to have a priest relieve you of youre sins. and If you commited Murder you could pay 20 to have that "repented of you" ---- Now don't get the wrong idea, I'm NOT talking about "crooked priests" This was actually a rule designed by the Catholic church.


ALL RELIGIONS WERE CREATED BY PEOPLE. PEOPLE LIE.

That is another major problem. Humans. If humans are left to control things it is inevitable that mistakes will be made and certain things may cause the human to become greedy or obstructed.
Speaking as a Christian, we believe that the pope is the closest thing to God, but even the pope can make mistakes.. Its what being a human and living on this earth is all about. Therefore you cannot say that Christianity is wrong and false because the bible is edited. It is not re-written, if it was re-written it would not be the bible but another book.
Your not meant to take the whole bible literally, you are supposed to learn from the actions and events that occur and through the stories that are being told.

[nonlinear]

Originally posted by LuxCars






first off there are many scientist who believe in God. You seem to be very mal-informed and talk about what you hear. Thats a horrible way of thinking, try thinking for yourself and doing your own research instead of just accepeting what your close minded friends accept.

I took a religion course in University and what you stated in your last couple of sentences is incorrect. There is tons and tons of evidence proving the bible's accuracy and events.
Although there is still the obvious argument of what religion is the right religion. That is all up to each individual to accept and follow through with on his own.

Also, no one is capable of sitting there and stating why their religion is better than anyone else's. Religion is a personal belief and is perceived differently by everyone.

[LuxCars]

Originally posted by nonlinear


and as for your opinion, that's fine. you might also have the opinion that you could jump from the calgary tower and magically fly to saftey. but I would be willing to bet my life that you would fall and splatter on the grouind below. I could even calculate how long it would take, exactly where you would land, and also the height and diameter of your splash.

get it?

Listen, you guys seem to think that since Jesus worked miracles in the day to send his message, that he should save you from stupid things like jumping off the calgary tower.

WE STILL HAVE FUCKING BRAINS.

God's power is not meant to be tested, your not supposed to say, "God if you exist than you should save me when i jump off a cliff from the top of the Grand Canyon"

We were given brains, the power to make decisions and choose for ourselves, how we use that power and make our decisions is a gift and has been given to us from God.

If you chose to be stupid and try and jump off a cliff to see if God will save you, then your probably not a true religious person to believe in things the way you do.

[Smokem]

*the bible is becoming more false every day argument*

Hoey is right, humans are inherently corrupt, but where does one stand in light of this? i think religion was an upbringing with intent to create morality in individuals

is someone who is atheist but is a great honest integral person better than the corrupt catholic who pays a priest off for killing someone? you betcha he is, as a catholic i would support the atheist for his MORAL beliefs


*science vs. religion argument*

i believe in science and its role in making this world a more meaningful and understanable place, meaning i inherently have to take in the belief of evolution, but it is a struggle that i must endure with great hippocracy against my catholic beliefs, but suffice to say short of being a skitzo, my "intellectual" self believes in evolution while my "spiritual" self believes in my religion and these are hats i wear given the situation

another example of a hat i wear, tonight i'm wearing my "social" hat, ie. drinking with my buddies


*my two cents*

i go back to my previous statement that i think we are all in the "religion" (i use that term very very loosely because the term itself creates animosity in this world) of LIFE, we are all living, breathing humans trying to create, find, manipulate, substantiate, repudiate and destroy "meaning" in this life through our various actions whatsoever they may be

above all else said, my personal aspirations are from wanting to become a good person and living and loving life

[andres_mt]

Originally posted by MtYurmom


"It's actually 4.65 billion (saying it like you or he knows for fact), according to (saying as if it was his theory) my geology prof."

Anyone find the oxymoron in that?

Ashee, i know you get bashed alot about other subjects... dont let science/geology be another. <3

lol you talk like an asshole...

[LuxCars]

Originally posted by nonlinear


LOL, thanks for the advice pal, but I am a scientist, and yes I have a PhD and yes I work at the UofC andyes I study evolution.

Ok, im not here to argue or to start pointless fights, but im gonna take a wild guess and say that you PhD is not in religious studies or evolution.
And as a PhD student i would expect your information to be more researched than word of mouth.

But either way, these types of discussions can go on forever, and they have. A few people discussing it on a car club will not make a difference.

[Smokem]

Originally posted by nonlinear


dude, the part i bolded above is basically what i said. our planet had a specific set of initial conditions and that's why we have life as it is today. if those initial conditions were different, life would probablly be different.

1. first and foremost, you're a jerk for not selling me that u-pass last year lol, now i remember why your name sounded familiar, don't matter now, it's all good

2. so what you're saying is that the <1/1,000,000,000,000 process of evolution was really a mathematical coincidence? if you do, i'm fine with that

Originally posted by nonlinear

and as for your opinion, that's fine. you might also have the opinion that you could jump from the calgary tower and magically fly to saftey. but I would be willing to bet my life that you would fall and splatter on the grouind below. I could even calculate how long it would take, exactly where you would land, and also the height and diameter of your splash.

get it?

3. as far as jumping off the calgary tower, i humbly respect the LAWS of physics over my beliefs

4. it wouldn't be an OPINION, it would be a BELIEF if I happened to believe in it.

5. (from #1.) i know you're in biosci and all, but thought you were still a grad student according to what you said earlier?? no disrespect whatsoever, but if you were a PhD, what in the world are you doing wasting time on an online bulletin board?

[blue Zed]

Originally posted by nonlinear


life didn't start as a rock. look at the periodic table.

Ok .... then what ...is there an atomic weight for life?

[LuxCars]

Originally posted by Smokem

i know you're in biosci and all, but thought you were still a grad student according to what you said earlier?? no disrespect whatsoever, but if you were a PhD, what in the world are you doing wasting time on an online bulletin board?

Point and Case, If you must lie about having a PhD why should we consider your thoughts.

Which goes to prove the statement earlier about Humans who Lie, which adds to the fact that you can not leave humans to control something so powerful, greed and certain actions/events are enough to obstruct an intended goal even if you feel strongly about it.

[lint]

Originally posted by LuxCars
first off there are many scientist who believe in God. You seem to be very mal-informed and talk about what you hear. Thats a horrible way of thinking, try thinking for yourself and doing your own research instead of just accepeting what your close minded friends accept.

You mean to say, try thinking like you. Since you're assuming that because nonlinear and I stated differing opinions from yours that we must be closed minded and have not done our research. You are also assuming that if he do our own research, that we will inevitably come to the same conclusion as you have. Those would both be incorrect assumptions.

Originally posted by LuxCars
I took a religion course in University and what you stated in your last couple of sentences is incorrect. There is tons and tons of evidence proving the bible's accuracy and events.
Although there is still the obvious argument of what religion is the right religion. That is all up to each individual to accept and follow through with on his own.

Care to share this wealth of knowledge that you have gained from the one religion course you took at the university? When you say "There is tons and tons of evidence proving the bible's accuracy", are you referring to tons in a modern world sense, or do you referring to it in a biblical sense?

Originally posted by LuxCars
Also, no one is capable of sitting there and stating why their religion is better than anyone else's. Religion is a personal belief and is perceived differently by everyone.

How do you pick and chose what parts of a religions dogma to follow and which parts to ignore? Are you saying that you are more intelligent or rational than God? Since the bible is his teachings. Are you saying that he is wrong? How can he be wrong when he is all knowing? And how can everyone be right in their religious beliefs? If everyone's religion is the right one, that means that everyone's religion must be the wrong one as well. One man's heaven is another man's hell?

[Supa Dexta]

The older I get the more I hate religion and bible thumpers/extremists from any religions..

[LuxCars]

Originally posted by lint


You mean to say, try thinking like you. Since you're assuming that because nonlinear and I stated differing opinions from yours that we must be closed minded and have not done our research. You are also assuming that if he do our own research, that we will inevitably come to the same conclusion as you have. Those would both be incorrect assumptions.



Care to share this wealth of knowledge that you have gained from the one religion course you took at the university? When you say &quot;There is tons and tons of evidence proving the bible's accuracy&quot;, are you referring to tons in a modern world sense, or do you referring to it in a biblical sense?



How do you pick and chose what parts of a religions dogma to follow and which parts to ignore? Are you saying that you are more intelligent or rational than God? Since the bible is his teachings. Are you saying that he is wrong? How can he be wrong when he is all knowing? And how can everyone be right in their religious beliefs? If everyone's religion is the right one, that means that everyone's religion must be the wrong one as well. One man's heaven is another man's hell?

1st paragraph:

I did not state a conclusion in the quote that you highlighted. In fact all I was saying is that you should do your own research and get your own opinion, how is that in any way suggesting that my opinion is the right opinion.

2nd paragraph:

Yes that would be a modern sense.. Had I stated that it was biblical findings my opinions would be completely biased and you could bash me for it...but i am not saying that it is a biblical finding but a scientific and geological evidence that places the bibles events to the time stated in the bible.

3rd paragraph:

Religion is like a set of attitudes and decisions that you make and chose to follow. your morality and ethics are what make you who you are. No one is to say that you are right as opposed to you are wrong, when judgment day comes we will all know. To chose what is literal and what is intended to be a teaching tool is something i could not tell you about. If i had time i would search it for you and tell you my findings but i am a bit stressed for time. There is a certain way to know, but my guess would be that you could figure it out yourself.

this is just an example but it may be hard to understand, because i probably will not be able to get the message across properly.

lets say your presented with a story and told to analyze it and the question creates a situation for you so that you can analyze it and use your judgment to answer the question.

(ex. Luke is a 14 year old boy who is put in a room with 1900 people, he is given a certain amount of food and quickly overfeeds 1000 people, and leaves 900 other people to starve instead of equally rationalizing the portions. The other 900 people die and Luke realizes his mistake.)

It is a situation that is created to help you understand, analyze and for see the result of quick movement without thinking. The situation is there to help you think before you act. That is the main purpose behind the story, not the fact that he did not feed 900 people and that they died.


i don't know if that really got my message across.

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by doublepostwhore
Scientific calculation &gt; jesus

if the earth is 6000 years old.... what were the dinosaurs living on?

[sabad66]

Originally posted by brendankharris


if the earth is 6000 years old.... what were the dinosaurs living on?

haha best point yet!!

[Fado]

Originally posted by brendankharris


if the earth is 6000 years old.... what were the dinosaurs living on?

That is one thing I've never truly known.. that being - do christians ignore the fact that there were dinosaurs on this planet?

[01RedDX]

.

[Nav13]

Originally posted by blue Zed
Just the other side of the coin i add two links even tho i don't believe the earth is 6000 yrs old or god but science has a few theory's that wants us to take a leap of faith as well

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...mp;q=evolution

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...mp;q=evolution

let's have a real debate!with both side

Did anyone else bother to watch these vids, even a little bit? I only watched about 7 mins so far, but man what a load of crap. I mean the guy is trying to say the the theory of evolution is to blame for the wars in the past and present. It is to blame for Stalin and Hitlers mass murders, genocides occuring today and why kids in America go shoot up schools. Hahah the dude forgets to mention that their are more then just simple beliefs that determine weather countries go to war, how evil dictators also have political agendas to fullfil, how children who end up shooting up schools tend to come from a rough background and have a less then favorable family setting. Then he goes on to tell the crowd how he outwitted a young boy into believing into god. Fuck its kinda pissing me off, and this was just the first 7 minutes. Now just for the record, I am not against religion, you can call me a fence sitter right now, I think this universe is far beyond the reach of mankind to comprehend, but bs vids like this that use garbage arguements to get their points accross really get tick me off.

[Fado]

Originally posted by Nav13


Did anyone else bother to watch these vids, even a little bit? I only watched about 7 mins so far, but man what a load of crap. I mean the guy is trying to say the the theory of evolution is to blame for the wars in the past and present. It is to blame for Stalin and Hitlers mass murders, genocides occuring today and why kids in America go shoot up schools. Hahah the dude forgets to mention that their are more then just simple beliefs that determine weather countries go to war, how evil dictators also have political agendas to fullfil, how children who end up shooting up schools tend to come from a rough background and have a less then favorable family setting. Then he goes on to tell the crowd how he outwitted a young boy into believing into god. Fuck its kinda pissing me off, and this was just the first 7 minutes. Now just for the record, I am not against religion, you can call me a fence sitter right now, I think this universe is far beyond the reach of mankind to comprehend, but bs vids like this that use garbage arguements to get their points accross really get tick me off.

I also watched the video. After about five minutes I couldn't take it seriously anymore.

[asp integra]

thats just stupid to believe its only a few thousand years old, it has to be atleast a few hundred million years old cuase we have found dinosaur bones that are that age, use that in ur argument if u want, but the actual age is closer to 4.5 billion

[The Cosworth]

Originally posted by Fado


That is one thing I've never truly known.. that being - do christians ignore the fact that there were dinosaurs on this planet?

when I used to go to church, my pastor told me that 'old artifacts' were burried by the devil to mislead us.


that was it seeing as I wanted to finish my schooling and go work at the royal tyrrell museum.