Computer Science or Commerce?

[5hift]

Computer Science or Commerce?

So as I'm sitting here, I'm debating which way to go for the Fall07/Winter08 Year (most likely at UofC). I'm willing to go pretty much anywhere in Canada and my grades are decent so getting in to either somewhere isnt a problem.

To the people who have attempted or finished either of these degrees, if you were starting again which degree would you go for? Considering things like salary, job security and just how good the field/jobs would be. So far I'm leaning towards BComm (CA in mind), just because I've had a chance to get a look at the IT industry and I didnt like what I saw in terms of the day to day work and the meager salaries they get for it; and I know just too many guys with CompSci degrees working at Future Shop to not have a little doubt about that degree.

Any input would be great as I'm trying to make a quick decision here with application deadlines approaching.

[CaptainReboot]

I did com sci for a year. There was no way that I could handle it. So I switched over to commerce the following year.

My first job out of school was a help desk position. From there I went on to become a network admin, and now a business analyst.

I've never had any technical training except for what I've learned on the job.

Goes to show that you don't need technical training to work in IT.

I think I have more opportunities with my B. Comm. I can do the technical stuff if I wanted to, or work on the business side of things.


Plus the ladies in Commerce are nice to look at!

[gatorade]

everyone i know who has taken computer science has hated it

[ashee]

Commerce, computer science would bore me.

[ronaldo]

Originally posted by CaptainReboot
I did com sci for a year. There was no way that I could handle it. So I switched over to commerce the following year.

...

Plus the ladies in Commerce are nice to look at!

[SilverGS]

Guess it depends on what you like to do.

Computers Science usually starts with 3 types of jobs
Sys Admins - Network Architecture, Server creation and Maintenance
PC Support - Help Desk, Computer Setup, Application Installs, Fix Printers, Install new hardware
Programmer Analyst / Software Developer - Create New Programs, Maintain and enhance current software, software support

From there you move into more senior positions of the same type, management type roles, PM, or business analyst roles. If you are the type that likes tinkering with stuff and taking apart and putting things back together and understanding the details of how things work it may be for you.

Tech changes quite often so you normally have to keep up with the times. I like that aspect of learning new things but not everyone is like that and the older you get the less you want to learn usually.

As mentioned you can also become a BA through the commerce route as well.

Current market in the IT sector is really quite good right now and the pay is pretty good, however, its a pretty volatile market that changes from year to year.

[Euro838]

Yeah, really depends on what you want to do and your personality type. If you prefer to avoid customer/client contact, then go the compsci route as you don't really deal with a lot people most of the time.

But if you prefer to deal with people, then go commerce as you'd probably be a technical rep to the people doing the actual work. The lines become really faded in terms of who does what and what skill you need. It requires a lot of effort to be at the top of your technical expertise and have time to deal with customer/client/management expectations. Usually, a lot of BA time is spent in meetings so you don't get much change to do a lot of work (I am speaking from a large project/corporation perspective). Just remember, you can't do it all.

[PaleRider]

If you have no interest in cpsc field in general then don't bother. CA is the safer route for sure. I just got an email saying the UC cpsc enrollment has been going down every year since 2002, which is good news. When I was in cpsc, too many people there took cpsc because they think they can get a job easily after school (it is now, but not so a few years back) and did not have interest in the field (IT/technology) at all. IMO without interest you can't be good at this field, when the next purge come, they'll be the first to go.

[three.eighteen.]

there is such a thing as a comp sci degree with a minor in business, or a commerce with a concentration in Management Information Systems (MGIS)..sort of a middle road if you want

[IntegraG2]

i took cpsc for 3 years...i had no interest at all it was very boring and pointless imo. So i moved to accounting and working to get my CA. I find accounting interesting maybe because cpsc is that much more boring. Go into something you like doing or else you will just end up switching into tons of different programs....

[death_rabbits]

commerce no question. i'm just finishing my bcom majoring in accounting, and i had a contract signed to start with a firm after i graduate last september. theres tons of jobs out there for aspiring CAs, and the pay is great. in my contract i got a $2000 bonus, a laptop, and i'm expecting to make over 50 g's next year (after overtime). i've even been contacted by three head hunters offering me jobs, and i'm not even done my degree yet. on top of that the job is actually pretty good. i was a little scared before i worked at a CA firm last summer because i didn't like the accounting classes, but for the job itself, those accounting classes are just back ground for what you need to know to do the job, you're not doing that all day. the job was actually enjoyable, and it leaves you with possibilities for all sorts of advancement in business. 20% of CAs end up as entrepreneurs, and over 80% of the most profitable public companies in Canada are run by CAs in CEO and CFO positions (and those positions pay from $200,000 to $1million a year). getting your CA is the best way to get into high level business positions.

[SilverGS]

Originally posted by IntegraG2
i took cpsc for 3 years...i had no interest at all it was very boring and pointless imo. So i moved to accounting and working to get my CA. I find accounting interesting maybe because cpsc is that much more boring. Go into something you like doing or else you will just end up switching into tons of different programs....

Heh heh your totally right about it all being what you are interested in. I was the exact opposite and considered accounting but found it boring so I did Comp Sci with a minor in management instead.

I would have to agree on the accounting degree then going on to become a CA. No matter what the market is like all companies will need accountants and CA's will command more money. On the flip side it is not easy to get the CA designation.

I personally enjoy working on computers and programming and program design so its good for me.

GL on your decision

[IntegraG2]

Originally posted by death_rabbits
commerce no question. i'm just finishing my bcom majoring in accounting, and i had a contract signed to start with a firm after i graduate last september. theres tons of jobs out there for aspiring CAs, and the pay is great. in my contract i got a $2000 bonus, a laptop, and i'm expecting to make over 50 g's next year (after overtime). i've even been contacted by three head hunters offering me jobs, and i'm not even done my degree yet. on top of that the job is actually pretty good. i was a little scared before i worked at a CA firm last summer because i didn't like the accounting classes, but for the job itself, those accounting classes are just back ground for what you need to know to do the job, you're not doing that all day. the job was actually enjoyable, and it leaves you with possibilities for all sorts of advancement in business. 20% of CAs end up as entrepreneurs, and over 80% of the most profitable public companies in Canada are run by CAs in CEO and CFO positions (and those positions pay from $200,000 to $1million a year). getting your CA is the best way to get into high level business positions.

wows thats awesome good for you man.....this gives me more motivation to study harder and get my degree quicker....CA FTW

Les

[khtm]

Commerce is one of the most common degrees taken where many people taking the Masters don't have the Undergrad. (What I mean is EVERYONE gets an MBA but how many Commerce grads get a Masters in Computer Science, for example?)

Therefore the Commerce Undergrad is useless, IMO.

At least with Computer Science you're learning practical skills that can get you a decent job right out of school. I'm not sure why you think Com Sci grads get worse pay than Commerce grads? Perhaps you should check out some more salary surveys? I have a bunch of Commerce friends who've been graduated for 5 years and still making < $50k. Working jobs like tele-marketing, Enterprise Rent-a-Car, etc.

I think you've been jaded because Commerce grads are a cocky bunch and if 1 out of 10 starts out at $80k they'll brag about it constantly and cause everyone to think that every Commerce grad is making that much.

I took a couple 400-level business classes in University (with no prerequisites...wtf?) as electives and they were a frickin' joke. One was a "Leadership" class where we just watched movies. And what's with Ethics not being required curriculum for Commerce students? They need to take that course more than any other program.

Anyways, good luck with your decision. At least neither route is (pure) Arts.

[IntegraG2]

Originally posted by khtm
Commerce is one of the most common degrees taken where many people taking the Masters don't have the Undergrad. (What I mean is EVERYONE gets an MBA but how many Commerce grads get a Masters in Computer Science, for example?)

Therefore the Commerce Undergrad is useless, IMO.

At least with Computer Science you're learning practical skills that can get you a decent job right out of school. I'm not sure why you think Com Sci grads get worse pay than Commerce grads? Perhaps you should check out some more salary surveys? I have a bunch of Commerce friends who've been graduated for 5 years and still making &lt; $50k. Working jobs like tele-marketing, Enterprise Rent-a-Car, etc.

I think you've been jaded because Commerce grads are a cocky bunch and if 1 out of 10 starts out at $80k they'll brag about it constantly and cause everyone to think that every Commerce grad is making that much.

I took a couple 400-level business classes in University (with no prerequisites...wtf?) as electives and they were a frickin' joke. One was a &quot;Leadership&quot; class where we just watched movies. And what's with Ethics not being required curriculum for Commerce students? They need to take that course more than any other program.

Anyways, good luck with your decision. At least neither route is (pure) Arts.

yes and here comes the one that downs on business students. There is different types of business degrees. Alot of them are really different. Alot of them are very useless indeed but that doesnt make all of them useless. Talk about a generalization....Im not taking either side that means i dont bash either side maybe you should do the same....

[death_rabbits]

Originally posted by khtm
Commerce is one of the most common degrees taken where many people taking the Masters don't have the Undergrad. (What I mean is EVERYONE gets an MBA but how many Commerce grads get a Masters in Computer Science, for example?)

Therefore the Commerce Undergrad is useless, IMO.

At least with Computer Science you're learning practical skills that can get you a decent job right out of school. I'm not sure why you think Com Sci grads get worse pay than Commerce grads? Perhaps you should check out some more salary surveys? I have a bunch of Commerce friends who've been graduated for 5 years and still making &lt; $50k. Working jobs like tele-marketing, Enterprise Rent-a-Car, etc.

I think you've been jaded because Commerce grads are a cocky bunch and if 1 out of 10 starts out at $80k they'll brag about it constantly and cause everyone to think that every Commerce grad is making that much.

I took a couple 400-level business classes in University (with no prerequisites...wtf?) as electives and they were a frickin' joke. One was a &quot;Leadership&quot; class where we just watched movies. And what's with Ethics not being required curriculum for Commerce students? They need to take that course more than any other program.

Anyways, good luck with your decision. At least neither route is (pure) Arts.

are you seriously that fuckin stupid?? of course commerce students less commonly get MBAs. thats because the people who didn't get a business degree find out they fucked themselves by not gettting it, and try to compensate by getting an MBA. personally, i'm never going to get an MBA because what i'm goin into requires a designation that takes three years to get, and i'm going to get paid the same for getting that and have the same career potential as if i had gotten an MBA. getting the MBA on top is redundant. the only degree I would get after my CA is a law degree because that opens me up to a whole new career path with nothing but money. on top of that i can't fathom someone getting a university degree of any kind and only being able to work at a telemarketing agency. that's not because of the degree, that's because your friend is a fucking loser. if he has no personality or is just an overall lazy fuck, then of course he's not going to get a job. i have friends who got science and art degrees, and ended up in high paying sales jobs. this is because they have things like initiative, and people skills which a degree doesn't get you. if you're relying on your degree to get you your job, your an idiot, its you who gets you the job, your degree is just a prerequisite. a commerce degree isn't useless its your friends who are useless. that most likely makes you useless too for hanging out with them. and on top of that just because you took one business course and it was easy doesn't mean the rest where. of course if you take an org a course or marketing it's not going to be hard, but that's not what i was advocating for people to get. there are varying majors of varying difficulty in business, and it just shows how ridiculously close minded you are that you judge the whole faculty based on one course you took one time in the easiest discipline in business. i dare you take advanced financial accounting and tell me it was so much as not bad. class average is 30-40% and the average student spends 40-60 hours studying for just the midterm. fuck i hate stupid people who try to talk about stuff they obviously know nothing about.

[5hift]

Khtm posts with a sarcastic or negative attitude on pretty much everything so I'm not surprised with his answer. However, his reply also shows he doenst really know what the Commerce Program entails, so its hard to take what he says seriously.


To the people who actually have experience in what I'm talking about, and not just what they heard from a few goofball friends:

What I personally was thinking was doing the BComm Degree, specializing most likely in Accounting. Then eventually doing the CA route. That said, I have quite a bit of CPSC classes done with pretty good marks, so I might be looking into maybe trying to get a MIS minor or something along those lines if it even exists.

On a side note, yes money is playing a role in my decision. I'm not expecting a six figure salary out of univeristy, but once one has a Degree down, as well as a CA and some experience, what should they expect in terms of salary (I know its up to the individual, but there have got to be some averages).

[TimG]

[SilverGS]

Try http://salary.monster.ca/ to get an idea on salary ranges

[HyperZell]

Death Rabbits saved me the trouble of having to slam somebody, but I do want to add something to the notion that business courses are easy.

In a relative sense, yes, they might be more straightforward and less demanding than than other courses, i.e. engineering. Lots of people who take business courses as options or whatever come away with higher marks, therefore leading them to think that such classes are easy. There are two counters to this:

1. Those are option classes, open to everyone. It's not going to be the same in a high-level course for fourth-years. And if business students are saying that classes are easy, it's because they are good at what they do, and they 'get it'.

2. You shouldn't be taking classes for marks. I don't enroll for a core class looking for a 4.0 - I enroll to learn something. A lot of people don't see the big picture in going to post-secondary: the acquisition of skills and toolsets to help you in your career. The challenge in business begins after school, where you are placed in the real world and have to apply everything you've learned without a rigid framework or structure. The application is the real difficulty behind business courses. The degree can get you in the door, but from then on you have to rely on what you've learned to advance.

Other careers have different paths - engineers have a very focused and straighforward approach the most tasks, which is why they drill them at school with repeated problems and labs. Understand the difference between the two and make your choice accordingly.