Calgary Transit strike impending?

**dreamchaser** · 05-10-2007, 08:23 PM

mjt says

The City will try to use these shuttles on every route they can. They will cut the # of bus runs. Right now bus runs are greater in number. There's nothing in this proposed deal preventing shuttles to become something like 80% of the service. That will kill jobs for many Transit Operators, especially the junior ones who drive only bus. That's what this whole strike is about if it happens.

UNION CONTRACT SAYS

With the exception of service described above, where existing regular transit service will be
reduced, terminated or supplemented through the introduction of Community Shuttle service,
conversions to Community Shuttle service shall be limited to the following:
(i) for the 1998 calendar year, three (3) conversions plus one and one-half percent (1
1/2%) percent of total platform hours operated in the previous calendar year;
(ii) for the 1999 calendar year and thereafter, three (3) conversions (maximum 7,400 hours)
plus one and one-half percent (1 1/2%) of total platform hours operated in the previous
calendar year.
The City shall provide the Union with total platform hours operated in the previous calendar year.
Community Shuttle service in excess of that described above will be implemented by mutual
agreement of the parties. Management reserves the right to implement and delete Community
Shuttle services.

**mjt** · 05-11-2007, 12:52 PM

With the exception of service described above, where existing regular transit service will be
reduced, terminated or supplemented through the introduction of Community Shuttle service,
conversions to Community Shuttle service shall be limited to the following:
(i) for the 1998 calendar year, three (3) conversions plus one and one-half percent (1
1/2%) percent of total platform hours operated in the previous calendar year;
(ii) for the 1999 calendar year and thereafter, three (3) conversions (maximum 7,400 hours)
plus one and one-half percent (1 1/2%) of total platform hours operated in the previous
calendar year.
The City shall provide the Union with total platform hours operated in the previous calendar year.
Community Shuttle service in excess of that described above will be implemented by mutual
agreement of the parties. Management reserves the right to implement and delete Community
Shuttle services.

Seems like it is an expired agreement. The current agreement expired on June 30,2006. The one previous to that was 2003 and prior to that there was the one that the 2001 strike brought. Regardless, it is pretty vague. Not enough to prevent the City from trying in the future. The union wants the City to put a fixed percentage # in writing as part of the new deal. That is one way to settle the Shuttle Issue. Cancelling the Order of the 12 EZ RIDER II Buses is another way. Finally, the way that most drivers would like to see is for all Drivers to be able to drive any bus or shuttle and be paid the same wage. (as is done in Edmonton)

**mjt** · 05-11-2007, 12:53 PM

yah, ive noticed the union manipulates the workers alot.
they will say we need to have the strike vote, so we can make them nervous, and they are okay, but than the union leaders decide for the strike vs the people

It has nothing to do with 'the people'. This strike (if it happens) is all about improving working conditions for Transit Workers. For us, it is a livelihood.

**dreamchaser** · 05-11-2007, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by mjt

Seems like it is an expired agreement. The current agreement expired on June 30,2006. The one previous to that was 2003 and prior to that there was the one that the 2001 strike brought. Regardless, it is pretty vague. Not enough to prevent the City from trying in the future. The union wants the City to put a fixed percentage # in writing as part of the new deal. That is one way to settle the Shuttle Issue. Cancelling the Order of the 12 EZ RIDER II Buses is another way. Finally, the way that most drivers would like to see is for all Drivers to be able to drive any bus or shuttle and be paid the same wage. (as is done in Edmonton)

if the cancel the order, what should they order then?
Ford declined their tender.. they cant get those crestlines anymore i heard.

**CivicTunr** · 05-11-2007, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by mjt

It has nothing to do with 'the people'. This strike (if it happens) is all about improving working conditions for Transit Workers. For us, it is a livelihood.

haha yah but remember when they went on strike in 2001, all the bus drivers lost so much money, cause when your on strike you dont get paid. so you have to work so much more to ever get that money back.

**barbarian** · 05-11-2007, 05:30 PM

The EZ RIDER II buses seem like a good idea--less empty bus space to haul around wasting fuel. So what's wrong with them?

**mjt** · 05-11-2007, 06:45 PM

The EZ RIDER II buses seem like a good idea--less empty bus space to haul around wasting fuel. So what's wrong with them?

It is a Bus and not a shuttle. It will take close to the same amount of fuel. There is only 10 feet distance between these buses and regular low floor buses. That is really the only difference. It is not a shuttle. Shuttles are driven by Shuttle Operators. Buses are driven by Transit Operators. Both of them have similar duties but are paid a lot differently. Transit Operators have to deal with more traffic, more people, have to know more routes and have a larger vehicle. SHuttle Operators are mostly part-time workers.

Here is a picture of the EZ Rider II bus that is being billed as a shuttle:

http://www.northernbus.com/eldorado_ezriderII.htm

Here is a bunch of pictures of a regular buses in service at CT:

http://www.kevinsbusrail.com/roster-bus.html

Under the city's proposal they will pay the shuttle guys almost 10 dollars an hour less to do more or less the same work on a very similar vehicle.

There is no limit to how many bus runs they can cut and convert to shuttle. Right now Crestline buses can't handle loads more than 30 people. The EZ Rider II bus would have no problem with that as it is a bus and sold as such. Basically the 2 issues that come out of this Shuttle thing is:

1. bus runs will be cut and converted to shuttle in a very sneaky way while using actual buses (EZ RIder II). This will mean jobs eliminated. For the most junior Employees that means job loss.

2. SHuttle drivers are mostly part time. Many of them took the job because of the smaller vehicle and part-time hours. City wants to work them on regular buses (EZ Rider II), have them go full-time and pay them way less then Transit Operators basically for what will become very much the same job. Right now they have very light loads and face very little traffic most of the time as compared to Bus Routes.

Either they make it so that all drivers get paid and can drive any bus OR clearly define what is and what isn't a shuttle and stick to it and stick to a percentage of the operation that can be Shuttle v.s. Bus. The City's own website has stated that Shuttles are to be used for new areas where there is low ridership or where the road network cannot accomodate a full sized bus. It also states that where route ridership is no longer suitable for a shuttle bus then they have to convert it to bus operation. THis has been the principle that CT has operated on for the 20 years or whatever that they have had shuttles.

As for the fuel argument:

During PM Rush hour if you stand at the bus stop at Center and 4 Ave at chinatown where the #2 and #3 stops, you will find that many large buses fill up with roughly 75 to 80 people with a full load. To do the same there you need at least 3 of the current crestline shuttle buses to pickup the same # of people if not more. Multiply that by all the other buses that run through that area and that is a lot of fuel and a lot of shuttles as compared to buses. If you break it down to per person I believe buses use less fuel then your typical shuttle bus in operation today.

**mjt** · 05-11-2007, 06:46 PM

haha yah but remember when they went on strike in 2001, all the bus drivers lost so much money, cause when your on strike you dont get paid. so you have to work so much more to ever get that money back.

2001 was different. The job market is hotter now. The Housing market is insane. Rents are insane as well. Taxi shortage has hit an all-time high. In 2001 the last stations were Anderson and Brentwood and Whitehorn. Today it is Somerset,Dalhousie and Whitehorn (a new station is set to open North of Mcknight in Sept.). Ridership has gone up..way up. Calgary has added roughly 300,000 people. The amount of downtown workers that use LRT has increased. Cost of Parking Downtown has more than doubled already since 2001. Traffic has worsened to the point where one accident on any major road is enough to cause gridlock in an entire quadrant during rush hour. A few months ago there was an accident at 3:15 pm on Sunridge Way and Barlow Tr. N.E. I believe there was a fatality. Barlow Trail was closed in that section, 16th Ave was backed up, 36 St. was backed up, 52 st. was backed up and even Deerfoot around 16&32 was effected. All those people that go SB Barlow to Memorial to Deerfoot were out of luck as they all had to take 16 or 32 instead. At 6:15 pm there was still taffic tie ups in the area.

Today jobs are available the same day you start looking. It depends on how picky you want to get. Driving jobs like truck (tractor trailer, dump truck, gravel truck, delivery trucks that only require class 3 or 5 licence) and other types of buses (school buses) are in high demand. Taxi Cabs are in high demand as well. Anyone that drives Bus or C-train can drive a cab after applying a taxi licence because the taxi licence is class 4. The Bus licence is class 2 which is higher and in addition to the application all they need is to do a city knowledge and english test. Piece of cake for most Bus Drivers at CT. For the larger trucks you need a class 1 but any of those trucks that require class 2,3,5 are driveable by CT Bus Drivers since we all have a class 2 licence and air brake endorsement. Tour Bus Companies are hiring as well along with the Airport Shuttle and Buses run by hotels and airlines themselves. That's just driving jobs. Nobody will even try to live off the $100 weekly strike pay. Sad thing is the driver shortage will only get worse if there is a strike. Many will not come back to such a negative work environment after they find something else. Those that have their years in won't bail because of their pensions but they will work temporarily on other jobs. Those that just started have no incentive to return after a strike. I wouldn't be shocked to find most of them finding and staying in other jobs.

btw - if there is a lockout, it is similar to a layoff and E.I. will pay not only 60% of the salary of drivers but also the cost to maintain benefits. All this just for waking up.

**mjt** · 05-11-2007, 06:47 PM

if the cancel the order, what should they order then?
Ford declined their tender.. they cant get those crestlines anymore i heard.

Here is a lot of other shuttles that can be bought, this list however is used shuttles:

http://nationsbus.com/inventory.php

-------

As far as I know: Crestline Shuttles have a very short life compared to regular Low Floor Buses. The Shuttles average about 5 years and cost a lot more to maintain then regular buses. Regular Buses on the other hand can last a long time. They still have buses from the mid and late 70s running in service.

So what if Ford didn't take the order? They can buy other shuttle buses. I hope you're not suggesting that there are no others out there.

As for the issue about Crestline: The City had claimed that they can't get parts for it. I don't have all the details but the Union's maintenance rep did manage to find a place that sold parts for it. First they claimed it was parts and then they claim it was the chasis. The Union rep found both and provided the city with the info. Call the Union office for the details: 258-1258.

**dreamchaser** · 05-11-2007, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by mjt

Here is a lot of other shuttles that can be bought, this list however is used shuttles:

http://nationsbus.com/inventory.php

-------

As far as I know: Crestline Shuttles have a very short life compared to regular Low Floor Buses. The Shuttles average about 5 years and cost a lot more to maintain then regular buses. Regular Buses on the other hand can last a long time. They still have buses from the mid and late 70s running in service.

So what if Ford didn't take the order? They can buy other shuttle buses. I hope you're not suggesting that there are no others out there.

As for the issue about Crestline: The City had claimed that they can't get parts for it. I don't have all the details but the Union's maintenance rep did manage to find a place that sold parts for it. First they claimed it was parts and then they claim it was the chasis. The Union rep found both and provided the city with the info. Call the Union office for the details: 258-1258.

lowfloors there seem even bigger than the one city is ordering..

btw i was talking about lowfloor crestlines...

As far as I know: Crestline Shuttles have a very short life compared to regular Low Floor Buses. The Shuttles average about 5 years and cost a lot more to maintain then regular buses. Regular Buses on the other hand can last a long time. They still have buses from the mid and late 70s running in service.

and
city is paying only 25% if they get lowfloors...

If it was not taxpayers money.. say you owned a transporation business ... what would you buy?

**VoltCurve** · 05-12-2007, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by mjt

2001 was different. The job market is hotter now. The Housing market is insane. Rents are insane as well. Taxi shortage has hit an all-time high. In 2001 the last stations were Anderson and Brentwood and Whitehorn. Today it is Somerset,Dalhousie and Whitehorn (a new station is set to open North of Mcknight in Sept.). Ridership has gone up..way up. Calgary has added roughly 300,000 people. The amount of downtown workers that use LRT has increased. Cost of Parking Downtown has more than doubled already since 2001. Traffic has worsened to the point where one accident on any major road is enough to cause gridlock in an entire quadrant during rush hour. A few months ago there was an accident at 3:15 pm on Sunridge Way and Barlow Tr. N.E. I believe there was a fatality. Barlow Trail was closed in that section, 16th Ave was backed up, 36 St. was backed up, 52 st. was backed up and even Deerfoot around 16&32 was effected. All those people that go SB Barlow to Memorial to Deerfoot were out of luck as they all had to take 16 or 32 instead. At 6:15 pm there was still taffic tie ups in the area.

Today jobs are available the same day you start looking. It depends on how picky you want to get. Driving jobs like truck (tractor trailer, dump truck, gravel truck, delivery trucks that only require class 3 or 5 licence) and other types of buses (school buses) are in high demand. Taxi Cabs are in high demand as well. Anyone that drives Bus or C-train can drive a cab after applying a taxi licence because the taxi licence is class 4. The Bus licence is class 2 which is higher and in addition to the application all they need is to do a city knowledge and english test. Piece of cake for most Bus Drivers at CT. For the larger trucks you need a class 1 but any of those trucks that require class 2,3,5 are driveable by CT Bus Drivers since we all have a class 2 licence and air brake endorsement. Tour Bus Companies are hiring as well along with the Airport Shuttle and Buses run by hotels and airlines themselves. That's just driving jobs. Nobody will even try to live off the $100 weekly strike pay. Sad thing is the driver shortage will only get worse if there is a strike. Many will not come back to such a negative work environment after they find something else. Those that have their years in won't bail because of their pensions but they will work temporarily on other jobs. Those that just started have no incentive to return after a strike. I wouldn't be shocked to find most of them finding and staying in other jobs.

btw - if there is a lockout, it is similar to a layoff and E.I. will pay not only 60% of the salary of drivers but also the cost to maintain benefits. All this just for waking up.

This is why the city should be using the most severe sanctions possible against the "people" in the transit union. Cut all services (no electricity = no fun). The city should use every extreme at it's disposal to make the transit operator's lives as miserable as possible. A strike by the union should destroy the lives of the union members. Problem solved.

The Union is holding the citizens of this city hostage. It shouldn't be tolerated.

**codetrap** · 05-13-2007, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by mjt

It is a Bus and not a shuttle. It will take close to the same amount of fuel. There is only 10 feet distance between these buses and regular low floor buses. That is really the only difference. It is not a shuttle. Shuttles are driven by Shuttle Operators.

I read in the paper that the EZ riders are only about a foot longer than the current shuttles. That true?

I still don't understand this following point either.. if there's not enough drivers now to meet the current demand.. how can jobs be cut?

1. bus runs will be cut and converted to shuttle in a very sneaky way while using actual buses (EZ RIder II). This will mean jobs eliminated. For the most junior Employees that means job loss.

**jf97talon** · 05-13-2007, 01:52 PM

So guys..
has the 72 hour notice been given yet?

**toyboy88** · 05-13-2007, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by jf97talon
So guys..
has the 72 hour notice been given yet?

I believe the Union has called a meeting for this Wednesday to discuss the next "action" with it's members.

So if they did annouce strike earliest would be NEXT monday for most people.

**Legless_Marine2** · 05-15-2007, 08:03 PM

**cloud7** · 05-15-2007, 09:22 PM

if Calgary Transit does go on strike, I think it is the perfect opportunity to legalize transit services provided by private businesses.... as far as I know, Calgary Transit has the monopoly in public transportation (busing) because the city does not allow competition in the 'transit bus' business... i.e., you cannot buy a 14-passenger van and run a route to pick up/drop off passengers... not legally at least.

**jf97talon** · 05-16-2007, 01:21 PM

anyword yet?

**Euro_Trash** · 05-16-2007, 03:28 PM

http://www.770chqr.com/news/news_loc...news_local.cfm

So mjt, are we going to be looking for alternate transportation on Tuesday?

**jay42w8** · 05-16-2007, 06:13 PM

so they're striking over the shuttlebus issue...I support the city on this....save the taxpayer's money by getting cheaper drivers to drive smaller busses on smaller routes...makes perfect sense