Student Loan

[msommers]

Originally posted by xrayvsn
People need to get off their high horse. Despite what you may believe, you did not pay for your university education on your own. The taxpayers paid for a majority of your schooling for you.

One of the best points made in this debate in my opinion. While Alberta funding for post-secondary has taken a decline, one cannot ignore the fact that tuition is significantly cheaper than if we relied soley on our personal income or student loans.

For anyone interested in a lengthy read about our government's funding history, see here

One thing that really irritates me however is how some students abuse their student loans in terms of buying useless items not even remotely related to education.

[pinoyhero]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
What does that matter? When I'm right and you're wrong, your income tax bracket won't change that. Do you think that your opinion is somehow worth more if you make more money and pay more tax? Not only is that a snobby attitude, that's also shortsighted and ignorant, but I guess you've already admitted to ignorance earlier.

I ask the question because your whole argument is based on social equity, and since we dont have a full blown wealth redist situation in the country, then you should be doing something about it (ie redistributing your won wealth) rather than hypocritically saying that others should.

I believe that I should have a greater say over what tax dollars are spent on if I do indeed contribute more. Why would a shareholder that owns 1% of a company have as much say as one who owns the other 99%? If the 99% owner is snobby thinking he should have greater say by your definition I'm snobby.

And what are you "right" about that I'm "wrong" about? Obviously neither of us are correct as this isn't an easy issue. So to prove your point and live your opinion, use your income to support students by starting a bursary funded by your income.

[BrknFngrs]

I can't believe no one has brought up the point that all the "anti-student loan" torch carriers have just seen these loans as 100% interest free. It's unlikely a student, that previously took four years of loans, will have the ~$50,000 sitting in an account when they're done, just waiting to pay off the full amount so they are not charged any interest.

[GTS Jeff]

Originally posted by pinoyhero


I ask the question because your whole argument is based on social equity, and since we dont have a full blown wealth redist situation in the country, then you should be doing something about it (ie redistributing your won wealth) rather than hypocritically saying that others should.

I believe that I should have a greater say over what tax dollars are spent on if I do indeed contribute more. Why would a shareholder that owns 1% of a company have as much say as one who owns the other 99%? If the 99% owner is snobby thinking he should have greater say by your definition I'm snobby.

And what are you "right" about that I'm "wrong" about? Obviously neither of us are correct as this isn't an easy issue. So to prove your point and live your opinion, use your income to support students by starting a bursary funded by your income.

If a smoker tells you smoking is bad, does that mean he's a liar, or does it mean he's right, even if he's being hypocritical?

And as for you thinking you have such a greater say. Pfft bullshit. You think you pay more taxes than me? Try proving that one, you're nothing more than a fake ass high roller who's convinced that you rule the world. So what, you drive a couple bimmers. I'm not convinced and no one else is buying it either.

[pinoyhero]

Originally posted by GTS Jeff
If a smoker tells you smoking is bad, does that mean he's a liar, or does it mean he's right, even if he's being hypocritical?

And as for you thinking you have such a greater say. Pfft bullshit. You think you pay more taxes than me? Try proving that one, you're nothing more than a fake ass high roller who's convinced that you rule the world. So what, you drive a couple bimmers. I'm not convinced and no one else is buying it either.

The smoker is both right and hypocritical. That being said, one can also be wrong and hypcritical. So reading into that comment it seems you agree, although you think you're right, you also agree your a hypoctrite. You still haven't answered my question though. But I'll take your continued silence as an answer somewhere south of $100 per year.

You don't like my shareholder example? Guess not, you chose not to comment on that logic.

I did at no point say that I paid more taxes than you, please note the portion of my sentence where I specifically addressed that, " if I do indeed contribute more". So I haven't tried to state that I'm a highroller at all, nor that I rule the world. I can understand though that since you're out of logic and seem to have no rationale response to my points that you've again fallen back on insults, similar to what you did with your previous racial undertoned comment about some as petty as my handle.

Quite frankly I'm not on here trying to impress anyone with my cars in my sig, just doing what a number of others do, this is after all an auto enthusiast message board. Further if i was trying to post some fake cars to impress people, they'd be far more impressive than what's there right now. And since when do you speak for everyone else on this board and the fact that they don't believe I have such nice cars? Regardless I dont think this has anything to do with the topic.

[01RedDX]

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[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
The Canada Student Loan program is a joke. I paid a lot of interest before I paid out my $10K student loan, and my applications for interest relief were denied repeatedly. This is aside from the numerous delays, misplaced payments, mistaken collection letters (after the loan was paid.)

My SAIT diploma didn't get me as far as I had hoped, but I don't want to ever get another student loan, so now I am saving to go back to school, which means I have to delay continuing my education. Great system

I think you misunderstood me, I agree with what your saying and I was pointing out cases just like yours where the student loans people get are NOT interest free.

[01RedDX]

.

[Dayclone]

True, but I think when you go get an education off taxpayers money, and your also worknig part time, or when your done school and you do decide to work. You end up paying taxes anyways... So in a sense your giving back to the country. If you don't like how our tax dollars are spent then move to America, or somewhere less socialist. I'm just saying this is our system and it's worked great so far to help those that are less fortunate to get an education so that they can have a good job, and a good life. Also, at the same time giving back to the community. Sigh... But I do understand what you mean.. and how it's fair... but that's what we live in today...

Steve

Originally posted by xrayvsn
Government misspending and irresponsibility with taxpayers money is another topic. I don't think anyone is going to argue that the government has to be accountable for how they spend our money.

My point was more that student loans are a way to make post secondary education more accessible to everyone. Without a program like this, the only people who can afford university would be the offspring of the wealthy.

Why is it inconceivable that there are people who have the motivation to attend post-secondary, but can't afford it on their own. I don't see pinoyhero complaining about the supplementation of his university tuition by the taxpayers. Why is it completely fine for those people who have no post-secondary education but work, and pay tax in Canada, to supplement your tuition? If it is unthinkable that your tax dollars go to student loans to help out lower income Canadians get an education, how is it any more fair for you to get educated on the tax dollars of the so-called "blue collar workers"?

People need to get off their high horse. Despite what you may believe, you did not pay for your university education on your own. The taxpayers paid for a majority of your schooling for you.

Also, don't you have a six month period to pay this back before the interest kicks in? And while your in school it is possible for you to work part time to pay off while you work. So it can lessen your strain once you do get out..

But most people are in debt cause of this... they don't think how they can pay it off, they just work and spend their money and party or do w.e. those who are responsible do manage to pay some of it before they graduate. Which helps too, I'm also not saying that everyone is irresponsible, because some of you have car payments, insurance, resident, rent, food, utilities... etc.. and I can see it's hard.

Another reason could be that students that make it out can't find a job or find a job but don't end up paying the principle... only interest cause it's SOOO DAMN HIGH ><

Anyways... theres my rant again.

Originally posted by 01RedDX


I understood you, and I'm glad you brought it up. I was just sharing my experience.
How in the world can most students repay their student loan before they graduate?
The government is just making money on this program, and the interest isn't tiny either, something like 9 percent in my case.

[pinoyhero]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


The Canada Student Loan program is a joke. I paid a lot of interest before I paid out my $10K student loan, and my applications for interest relief were denied repeatedly. This is aside from the numerous delays, misplaced payments, mistaken collection letters (after the loan was paid.)

My SAIT diploma didn't get me as far as I had hoped, but I don't want to ever get another student loan, so now I am saving to go back to school, which means I have to delay continuing my education. Great system



Japan=127 million, 377K square kms, no natural resources

Philippines=89 million, 300K square kms, no natural resources.

Actually, the only major difference is in the population. Why must you carry on?



So you agree that Japanese society places a greater emphasis on education than ours? Maybe you're getting it.



Well, maybe not as much as I should... but then again I've never claimed to be a baller. Far from it in fact, I just finished paying off my student loan a couple of years ago.

I also don't complain loudly about paying my taxes. Maybe a fraction of them does go toward doing something good.

Oh, and I've never raised my tenants' rates in my rental apartment since I bought it 3 years ago. That's my contribution.

The loan program is a mess, as are many other govt. programs. I believe that if your truly needed the program and it was in place then it shouldn't have been such a costly, time wasting experience but the administrative mess that is "free money" programs are often too messy and ultimately too costly to even provide a return at all. I'm sorry to hear about your attempted use of what is designed to be help.

As far as the Japan/Phil comparison I thought you were trying to pick a nation to copmare to Canada, when you chose Phil I stated it was a ridiculous comparison, I then thought you deicded to compare Japan to Canada, but I see it was Japan to Phil, I misunderstood you. I leave it alone, but I'm pretty sure that the reason for diveristty in Jap/Phil has a little more to do with their educational programs. That being said i do agree they place more emphasis on education but not just from a funding level. Parents, students, teachers, funding, everyone places greater emphasis. As stated before if this were the case and the program was monitored and used responsibly with ramification for not, I would be in favour of it.

I'll reiiterate, I never claimed to be a baller, re-read my posts. i'm glad that you have not issue with only a fraction of your taxes going to good use. But wouldn't you like that to increase? It would be easy, if taxes were reduced by 5%, you could take that additional 5% and dontate it directly where you wanted it to go. Further if you've chosen to run your rental business in a more charitable way then that's great. You could however be more effective with that, raiaing rates as per normal, and then donating that extra rent to a student bursary (all while getting a tax recipt for that donation). Regardless you're contributing and I can't call you a hypocrite for that.

[ashee]

Originally posted by pinoyhero


The loan program is a mess, as are many other govt. programs. I believe that if your truly needed the program and it was in place then it shouldn't have been such a costly, time wasting experience but the administrative mess that is &quot;free money&quot; programs are often too messy and ultimately too costly to even provide a return at all. I'm sorry to hear about your attempted use of what is designed to be help.

I couldn't agree more, the loan process is very irritating and the lack of knowledged people available to help you doesn't make anything easier.

[xrayvsn]

Originally posted by pinoyhero
The loan program is a mess, as are many other govt. programs. I believe that if your truly needed the program and it was in place then it shouldn't have been such a costly, time wasting experience but the administrative mess that is "free money"; programs are often too messy and ultimately too costly to even provide a return at all. I'm sorry to hear about your attempted use of what is designed to be help.

I am having difficulty comprehending why everyone keeps calling student loans "free money".

It is interest free while still in school, and for 6 months thereafter. Then you pay interest at prime + 2.5% if you don't lock it in at prime + 5%. You have to pay the principal back. How is this free?

I also don't know how you quantify the "return" student loan programs provide. Their investment is not like an investment into equity or real estate. the investment is made into educating the future workers of Canada. The government also invests in post-secondary education by supplementing everyone's tuition. Its not like they get dividends back from that. However, what we all get back is an educated workforce. We get people from low, mid and high income families becoming physicians, engineers, accountants, nurses, etc. You can't put a % return of investment on that, but there is a tangible benefit.

From your own posts, you seem to have benefitted plenty from your government supplemented education, yet you don't rant about that, because it helped YOU out personally. Who is the hypocrite?

[lint]

Originally posted by xrayvsn


I am having difficulty comprehending why everyone keeps calling student loans &quot;free money&quot;.

It is interest free while still in school, and for 6 months thereafter. Then you pay interest at prime + 2.5% if you don't lock it in at prime + 5%. You have to pay the principal back. How is this free?

he and TrevorK are referring to the grants and bursaries that are provided to students in need as "free money", money that is not available to those who aren't in need. That has been the cornerstone of this argument that the advantaged are actually the disadvantaged.

And have they changed the repayment of student loans? I recall that it was interest free while in school, but interest started to be calculated immediately upon graduation. However, you don't have to start repayment for 6 months afterwards.

[xrayvsn]

Why don't they complain that stupid people are at a disadvantage because they don't qualify for scholarships that the smart kids get? Or how about complaining that men in science and engineering are at a disadvantage because there are scholarships and bursaries that only women can get?

Aren't bursaries run by different organizations than the student loan program? I know the individual universities have bursaries to dole out to students in need, but I thought those were independent of the Canada Student Loans. Why is a rant about student loans and inefficient use of their tax dollars encompass non CSLP bursaries?

I don't know about the student loan repayment schedule, since I am going from memory. You are probably right, interest is accumulated for the first six months, but you are not required to make payments in that time. I can't honestly remember, it has been a while.

[lint]

Originally posted by xrayvsn
Why don't they complain that stupid people are at a disadvantage because they don't qualify for scholarships that the smart kids get? Or how about complaining that men in science and engineering are at a disadvantage because there are scholarships and bursaries that only women can get?

They're just getting warmed up.

And to add, as a taxpayer, I'm happy to see some of my tax dollars go to needy students who require student loans to get through university. Seeing as how I was one of those students myself.

[Dayclone]

So let me get this straight,

If I took out a student loan, yes I have a grace period of 6 months but within those 6 months after I'm out of school the interest builds!??

So when six months comes by I'll end up paying my load and like 5-10% on top of that?? cause of the stupid compounding intrest?

Wow... no wonder students can't afford to pay it off...

[lint]

Originally posted by Dayclone
So let me get this straight,

If I took out a student loan, yes I have a grace period of 6 months but within those 6 months after I'm out of school the interest builds!??

So when six months comes by I'll end up paying my load and like 5-10% on top of that?? cause of the stupid compounding intrest?

Wow... no wonder students can't afford to pay it off...

is your retarded little brother posting under your account?

[TrevorK]

Originally posted by xrayvsn
Why don't they complain that stupid people are at a disadvantage because they don't qualify for scholarships that the smart kids get? Or how about complaining that men in science and engineering are at a disadvantage because there are scholarships and bursaries that only women can get?

Many scholarships are run by private individuals, if they choose to donate their money only to women in engineering, then so be it.

The Canada Student Loan program, as well as the many other bursaries/grants that are run by the Federal government should be available to everyone as I would assume the government should be preaching equality.

Aren't bursaries run by different organizations than the student loan program? I know the individual universities have bursaries to dole out to students in need, but I thought those were independent of the Canada Student Loans. Why is a rant about student loans and inefficient use of their tax dollars encompass non CSLP bursaries?

The government actually has programs in place to give out free money to students who are part of the CSL program, I have posted links in my posts referencing one of the larger ones.

I don't know about the student loan repayment schedule, since I am going from memory. You are probably right, interest is accumulated for the first six months, but you are not required to make payments in that time. I can't honestly remember, it has been a while.

Yes - you are correct in that interest accumulates upon graduation but you don't start repayment until 6 months after.

[pinoyhero]

Originally posted by xrayvsn


I am having difficulty comprehending why everyone keeps calling student loans &quot;free money&quot;.

It is interest free while still in school, and for 6 months thereafter. Then you pay interest at prime + 2.5% if you don't lock it in at prime + 5%. You have to pay the principal back. How is this free?

I also don't know how you quantify the &quot;return&quot; student loan programs provide. Their investment is not like an investment into equity or real estate. the investment is made into educating the future workers of Canada. The government also invests in post-secondary education by supplementing everyone's tuition. Its not like they get dividends back from that. However, what we all get back is an educated workforce. We get people from low, mid and high income families becoming physicians, engineers, accountants, nurses, etc. You can't put a % return of investment on that, but there is a tangible benefit.

From your own posts, you seem to have benefitted plenty from your government supplemented education, yet you don't rant about that, because it helped YOU out personally. Who is the hypocrite?

I classify free money as anything the govt gives out for free. IN this case the free interest that a bank or any other lender would otherwise charge.

As noted before I am in favour of a free education program to the extent it is kept in check (the students are held accountable for performace, ie. dont pass with a certain level of grade, pay back all money with interst) and available to all (those with money aren't discriminated against). The "return" is the degree which proves the loan went to good use. I agree with that whole paragraph but its the abuse and discrimination that gets my goat.

I did benefit from the subsidized education. I've never once said that I wouldn't take free money if given. I'm not an idiot, if the government if giving out my (as i'm a tax payer) money, then why wouldn't i go get some back. I don't see this as hypocritical at all.

[pinoyhero]

Originally posted by xrayvsn
Why don't they complain that stupid people are at a disadvantage because they don't qualify for scholarships that the smart kids get? Or how about complaining that men in science and engineering are at a disadvantage because there are scholarships and bursaries that only women can get?

Aren't bursaries run by different organizations than the student loan program? I know the individual universities have bursaries to dole out to students in need, but I thought those were independent of the Canada Student Loans. Why is a rant about student loans and inefficient use of their tax dollars encompass non CSLP bursaries?

I don't know about the student loan repayment schedule, since I am going from memory. You are probably right, interest is accumulated for the first six months, but you are not required to make payments in that time. I can't honestly remember, it has been a while.

Because the "smart" kids deserve the scholarship they worked for. If the bursary isn't funded with my tax money then I dont really care who the funders decide to give the money to. If however its funded with tax pyer dollars then I do have an issue with those things.