HOW to build an amature rally car?

[jdm_eg6]

I have a great oppertunity to build up an 86' Celica GTS but i need to know what is required by any amature rally association when it comes to regulations and safety, registration, .etc

what do i need to change a stock celica GTS to a semi-compedative rally car.

Thanks guys

[rage2]

http://www.carsrally.ca/CARSRally/Default.aspx?tabid=92

There's rules for entry level rallysprint as well as rules for the higher up stuff where u need a rollcage.

[Maxt]

I have done 2 rally car builds almost back to back for a customer, be warned, it costs a small fortune and a lot of time to just make the race, not mentioning being competitive.. Every race seemed to need about 3 days surroundin the actual race, to ready it, race it, and cleanup afterward... I think they had a lot of fun, it just was very time and money consuming exercise..

[jdm_eg6]

as of now im just starting with the Celica GTS with a great motor and tranny in it. Im re-doing the suspension, brakes, cooling, and gutting the vechicle, not to mension guages and other monitoring things. I wouldnt mind blowing around 2-3 on it... but was wondering if thats even close enough to hit an amature race up using a team of friends as the crew.

[Maxt]

Its around 10-12k not including the buying of the car.. You need multiple sets of tires, for different terrain, and rims, and spares.... The trip computer is a little pricey. The cage has to be certified, figure on around 2200-4k for the cage depending on who does it.Race seats and harnesses with certification. The car cant be a shit pile either, it has to be visually ok to pass... You can spend a lot of time and money just setting the suspension up as well... Then you need a trailer, tow vehicle, a good supply of spare parts, and entrance fees..
The car has to have all of its original emissions and efi working as well.. Then there are the lights that should be removable so you dont ruin them during day runs.. Stock suspension will last about 5 minutes.. Then there is skid plates , tow hooks, mud guards, small stuff but it really nickle and dimes as the car goes together..

[jdm_eg6]

yeh exactly how i saw it, i wasnt planning on running it for a few years it was going to be a slow build up. Its only going to be a super AMATURE race toy really nothing too serious yet. BUt i do hear a large diameter of suspension rod is needed aka expensive suspension. Is a trip computer a necessity aswell? thanks alot for your help so far as well!

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by jdm_eg6
yeh exactly how i saw it, i wasnt planning on running it for a few years it was going to be a slow build up. Its only going to be a super AMATURE race toy really nothing too serious yet. BUt i do hear a large diameter of suspension rod is needed aka expensive suspension. Is a trip computer a necessity aswell? thanks alot for your help so far as well!

super amateur or not, to complete you need that much. Everything is necessary.

[alloroc]

If you are really serious you just need ANY car to start.

Join the CSCC and take a couple of the Navigational schools and start with Navigational rallys. You really need to start at this level anyway to learn map instructions. Even if you are driving, you need to learn to listen to the co-driver and learn the basic map lingo.

It would also help you if you volunteered a few times for some of the 'pro' events. You can pick up basic rules and procedures plus some tips from the drivers and co-drivers.

[arian_ma]

Don't know much about the topic bit it sounds like a kickass idea! You're going to have a blast with this. Good luck man.

[jdm_eg6]

thanks man, ive already got a parts list kind of made. And volunteering sounds like a great idea! no better way to learn and meet new people than to be out in the feild right. and nav classes too hey? i was going to join up with the CSCC, and i agree team Mclaren i will check the list thrice before being satisfied. Roll cage is my biggest concern and after speaking with somone i may have one thats accessable!

[Hi-Psi]

Originally posted by Maxt
Its around 10-12k not including the buying of the car.. You need multiple sets of tires, for different terrain, and rims, and spares.... The trip computer is a little pricey. The cage has to be certified, figure on around 2200-4k for the cage depending on who does it.Race seats and harnesses with certification. The car cant be a shit pile either, it has to be visually ok to pass... You can spend a lot of time and money just setting the suspension up as well... Then you need a trailer, tow vehicle, a good supply of spare parts, and entrance fees..
The car has to have all of its original emissions and efi working as well.. Then there are the lights that should be removable so you dont ruin them during day runs.. Stock suspension will last about 5 minutes.. Then there is skid plates , tow hooks, mud guards, small stuff but it really nickle and dimes as the car goes together..

This is really excessive for someone just starting out in Rallying. The TSD ralleys through CSCC is where a lot of the guys start off and like alloroc mentioned, ANY vehicle can be entered. As long as all your car runs and you have all the necessary safety stuff done then you are good to go. You do not require a trip computer or roll cage, a trip computer is nice but it's pretty simple calculations to do yourself when your starting off.

A lot of the guys don't have a trailer or anything like that even though I personally recommend it unless you have AMA and can get the free towing back to the city.

Check out CSCC and sign up for a TSD course and try one of the TSD rally's and have a blast! They are very fun and you'll learn a lot and eventually work your way up to the more competitive rallying. I was their TSD last weekend in Rocky Mountain House and it turned out to be a very good rally, I highly recommend checking it out!

Jay

[alloroc]

Originally posted by CMSjay


This is really excessive for someone just starting out in Rallying. The TSD ralleys through CSCC is where a lot of the guys start off and like alloroc mentioned, ANY vehicle can be entered. As long as all your car runs and you have all the necessary safety stuff done then you are good to go. You do not require a trip computer or roll cage, a trip computer is nice but it's pretty simple calculations to do yourself when your starting off.

A lot of the guys don't have a trailer or anything like that even though I personally recommend it unless you have AMA and can get the free towing back to the city.

Check out CSCC and sign up for a TSD course and try one of the TSD rally's and have a blast! They are very fun and you'll learn a lot and eventually work your way up to the more competitive rallying. I was their TSD last weekend in Rocky Mountain House and it turned out to be a very good rally, I highly recommend checking it out!

Jay

Also start testing out co drivers now. This is more important than the car itself.
You want someone who is a fast talker who likes to stay up all night who is good with arithmetic and doesn't get carsick while reading off of a teeny red map light in the dark in a rocking car.

[alloroc]

Oh ya ... watch for rocks.

http://forums.beyond.ca/st/190612/stone-up-ass/

[Maxt]

Originally posted by CMSjay


This is really excessive for someone just starting out in Rallying. The TSD ralleys through CSCC is where a lot of the guys start off and like alloroc mentioned, ANY vehicle can be entered. As long as all your car runs and you have all the necessary safety stuff done then you are good to go. You do not require a trip computer or roll cage, a trip computer is nice but it's pretty simple calculations to do yourself when your starting off.

A lot of the guys don't have a trailer or anything like that even though I personally recommend it unless you have AMA and can get the free towing back to the city.

Check out CSCC and sign up for a TSD course and try one of the TSD rally's and have a blast! They are very fun and you'll learn a lot and eventually work your way up to the more competitive rallying. I was their TSD last weekend in Rocky Mountain House and it turned out to be a very good rally, I highly recommend checking it out!

Jay

I think this guy has little more in mind that cruising back roads at 40 km/hr, and in the thrill of the moment on unknown roads, things happen..
Its hardly excessive if you actually want to race, and survive a crash... And it does happen, the first car I built the owners went off the road and head first into a tree then rolled at speed in their very first rally, they walked away because of the cage.. If anyone needs a cage its a beginner.. After seeing first hand when car hits tree, it would be stunned to do it without one..
10-12k is very realistic number if you actually want to do it and move into event racing and be in the pack, unless you want to piddle around half assed at pedestrian speeds just so you dont kill yourself.. Don't skimp, build to the safety book, its worth it..

[Hi-Psi]

Originally posted by Maxt

I think this guy has little more in mind that cruising back roads at 40 km/hr, and in the thrill of the moment on unknown roads, things happen..
10-12k is very realistic number if you actually want to do it and move into event racing and be in the pack, unless you want to piddle around half assed at pedestrian speeds just so you dont kill yourself..

If that's honestly what you think a TSD is like then I highly doubt you have actually been in one. I'm sorry but that's just not what it's like at all.

I'm not arguing that you couldn't spend 10-12k on a rally car, I'm saying that is way too excsessive for a beginner. Beginners need to start somewhere and a full-out staged rally is not the place.

Jay

[alloroc]

Originally posted by CMSjay


If that's honestly what you think a TSD is like then I highly doubt you have actually been in one. I'm sorry but that's just not what it's like at all.

Jay

Especially when you fall behind on a stage.

Originally posted by CMSjay
Beginners need to start somewhere and a full-out staged rally is not the place.

Jay

Otherwise they will go ...

Originally posted by Maxt

off the road and head first into a tree then rolled at speed in their very first rally,

Not the way to learn or see the fruit of your hard work vanish within a couple stages.

[jdm_eg6]

Every driver wants to avoid crashes of course. and im starting with a Celica GTS 86 to that soo there are plenty of shells around if i crash/parts.

QUESTION: do cusco roll cages pass the neccessary safety requirements?

Thanks alot for everyones input, ive gathered two others so far that i can trust on in this project.

and i have to 200% agree with saying the co-driver is more important than the car, i almost beleive the co-driver is more important than the driver themselves, if a co-driver makes a mystake it usually means a big problem is soon to come. But if a driver makes a mistake they usually catch it, but not always!!

[jorge]

Originally posted by jdm_eg6


Thanks alot for everyones input, ive gathered two others so far that i can trust on in this project.

Hi eg6.

First of all I would like to offer my help to you regarding your interest in Rally. If you live in Calgary and you like rally cars, you are lucky since Calgary is one or "the" most active Rally areas in Canada with 3 regional events and one national organised by the Calgary Sports Car Club.

It is nice to hear a lot of people's opinions here but some are a little too gloomy. In general All motorsports cost a good chunk of money to do. The nice thing about Rally is, like someone said here, you don't have to start with an actual "Pro-Rally car" to start participating and learning.

In the Calgary area we have some great TSD events which I highly recomend (and no, you don't need a roll cage for that or trip computer, etc, just a car that is in good mechanical condition and a good friend to be your navigator)
CSCC also organises Rallycrosses just about every second weekend during winter, I believe starting in December.. These events are held at the gravel parking area of Race City speedway and they are very cheap to enter, you do not need any special equipment to run these vents either but they are a great place to test your car as you keep building it and tunning it to run it on a ProRally one day.
Last abut not least, Calgary puts on a Rally School every March or April, which by the way it is the only performance driving Rally School in Canada. At that School we teach everything from; the best methods to build and maintain your rally car to driving techniques used by all the fast rally drivers. For a beginner, this is the best money they can invest in their rally car and driver.

Rally comes in many flavours, sure you can spend a fortune competing if you want to, but there are lots of guys out there who go out with a very cheap car and consistently win.

I disagree with the 12K cost to get the car ready on top of the price of the car. If my calculations are right, it is more like 8K to 9K and that is if you buy everything new, you can always get deals in used trip computers, etc, there is a good network of rally equipment for sale if you know where to go. If I wanted to build up a stok of wheels for example so that I have several to mount tires on, I would go to Pick and Pull and get the factory mags for the Celica, there are dozens of them every week there, they are super cheap and they have great weight and strengh qualities since manufacturers are too afraid of getting sued, they have better quality controlls than many aftermarket wheel manufacturers

The first thing I would do is go to one of the CSCC meetings, there are planty of people willing to help you with any questions you may have, also you can volunteer to be a marshal at one of the events and you will be surprised at all the info you will pick up there.

If you need any specific information on how to start up in Rallying just send me an email: [email protected] I have competed in all types of rally cars from very cheap when I first started to running many National series in an AWD Eclipse. I have won 4 Regional Championships and one Production-4 National Championship. I am also the head instructor and organizer of the annual Rally School.

Jorge

[jibber]

If you are looking for a co-driver or an extra hand, I have some spare time, send me a PM.

I won the CSCC TSD Rally Driver's Championship in 2000 and tied for 1st in the Driver's Championship in 2001. I have also competed in a few pro rallys as a co-driver back a few years.

Jorge is one of the best Canadian Rally resources you'll find in these parts. I learned alot from him when I was co-driving for Penny Zuk.

To agree with him, TSD rallying is a great way to get into rallying without the huge overhead of running a pro-rally car. Or, if it's not your cup of tea, the CSCC is always looking for volunteers to marshall and help with the rallys... I would start with them.