Royalty on Alberta Oil is less then 4% !!!!

[autosm]

Well that amount of dough leaving Alberta is huge ??? We could be like the UAE and import all of our workers to get the oil for us . Even if the numbers are only half that amount its still huge .



On a lighter note the real reason Bitumen is expensive to get processed .......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WZCweaakOg

[broken_legs]

Here is some information that is getting passed around my company (an Oilfield Service Company) who will be greatly affected by a reduction in activity.

Also my company has chosen not to make a public statement in regards to the Royalty issue.



Heres an email from PSAC to PSAC Members:

Members,

As you are aware we are getting closer to the government's response to the
Royalty Review Panel's report. Everything we hear leads us to believe that
the rural MLAs will have an important influence on the outcome.

If you haven't encouraged your staff in the regional offices/branches to
contact their local MLAs, please don't hesitate to do so now. Individual
personal letters/emails or direct phone calls are encouraged.

We believe that the industry's message is starting to be heard but we must
continue to make our concerns known.

Best regards,

Petroleum Services Association of Canada

Here are some links to some good sources of information on this issue by industry & Government.


www.alberta.ca
www.energy.gov.ab.ca
www.ablertaroyaltyreview.ca
www.psac.ca
www.capp.ca
www.petro-canada.ca/en/media/54.aspx



I don't know if I want to wade into this debate at all so I'll just post this and maybe some more people can get a little more informed.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

Originally posted by autosm
Well that amount of dough leaving Alberta is huge ??? We could be like the UAE and import all of our workers to get the oil for us . Even if the numbers are only half that amount its still huge .



On a lighter note the real reason Bitumen is expensive to get processed .......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WZCweaakOg

that doesn't work, Canada is a first-world country with a old established immigration policy and labor laws, UNLIKE the UAE.

[Toma]

Originally posted by autosm
Well that amount of dough leaving Alberta is huge ??? We could be like the UAE and import all of our workers to get the oil for us . Even if the numbers are only half that amount its still huge .



On a lighter note the real reason Bitumen is expensive to get processed .......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WZCweaakOg

Maybe not all.... but I heard there is a deal in the works that MAY see upto 100,000 chinese workers being brought over

[89coupe]

I get these daily through emails. One worth sharing.

"The best article written about the report from an average Albertan and
in the Premier's back yard."

....(Excerpt from The Lacombe Globe).....

Oil and gas helps province to prosper, says reader (Lacombe Globe)
Tuesday October 16, 2007

Dear Editor,

I'm not a farmer. Nor an engineer, land agent, consultant or labourer.
My husband doesn't work in a business related to the oil industry and
none of my children work in the patch.
I'm an average Albertan, born in the same small town I have chosen to
raise my family surrounded by many diversified farming practices as well
as a growing oil and gas Industry. I've been employed in both sectors
and have felt the heartbeat of each.

I've also read the Alberta Royalty Review and the current shares of: Oil
Sands 47 per cent; Conventional Oil 44 per cent; and 58 per cent for
natural gas. The recommended increases are 64 per cent, 49 per cent and
63 per cent respectively - an overall increase of 27 per cent.

What right do I have to over 50 per cent? I take no risk researching the
area for productive wells, own no heavy equipment to prepare the area
and extract the fuels, or spend millions of dollars on investing,
education, or safety. I don't work 12 plus hour long days in mud, snow
or heat for weeks. I don't live in a camp or in a hotel for months,
wishing for that home cooked meal -missing my family.

What is the Alberta Advantage? The government website www.alberta.ca
states how "Albertans have the lowest personal taxes in Canada. They
enjoy a high quality of life with the highest level of service. They
have the highest disposable incomes in Canada and the lowest
unemployment rate. We also have a strong and vibrant economy, a strong
commitment to innovation and knowledge-based progress. A modern and
efficient infrastructure and an abundance of natural resources." The oil
and gas industry drives many of these. Albertans enjoy "not having a
provincial sales tax." Ask yourself why.

Oil companies pay millions in tax revenue. These taxes support our
education, health and infrastructure. Many companies also make
significant donations for community and youth programs such as Alberta
4-H. Alberta is the only province to be debt free thanks to the
provincial revenue generated. Who are the largest contributors?
Thousands of farmers receive annual income from a well on their land.
Appreciated revenue when the price of livestock or crops has fallen,
again. Working in the oil and gas industry offers flexibility as well as
financial comfort for many grateful to offset the farm expenses. When
the oil and gas revenue drops, and it will, Alberta government won't
have tax dollars for agricultural programs. If the economy drops to
reverberate into another recession similar to the 1980s, it will be
other government officials rebuilding Alberta.

L. Hand
Lacomb

[sputnik]

Originally posted by Toma

Maybe not all.... but I heard there is a deal in the works that MAY see upto 100,000 chinese workers being brought over

That is a GOOD thing.

More workers in Alberta means more people spending money at other businesses.

Perhaps they will like Alberta and bring their families too. Vancouver seems to be doing well with the amount of Chinese investment it gets. It is also no secret that immigrant families tend to be far more entrepreneurial and hard working than the average citizen.

Bring over 100,000 Chinese... then 100,000 African people... maybe another 100,000 East Indians as well! Europeans are also flooding into Alberta. There are thousands of people from the UK that have immigrated over the past year and many are buying houses when they arrive.

Alberta 2020 = 5 million people!

[sputnik]

Originally posted by 89coupe
I get these daily through emails. One worth sharing.

"The best article written about the report from an average Albertan and
in the Premier's back yard."

....(Excerpt from The Lacombe Globe).....

Oil and gas helps province to prosper, says reader (Lacombe Globe)
Tuesday October 16, 2007

Dear Editor,

I'm not a farmer. Nor an engineer, land agent, consultant or labourer.
My husband doesn't work in a business related to the oil industry and
none of my children work in the patch.
I'm an average Albertan, born in the same small town I have chosen to
raise my family surrounded by many diversified farming practices as well
as a growing oil and gas Industry. I've been employed in both sectors
and have felt the heartbeat of each.

I've also read the Alberta Royalty Review and the current shares of: Oil
Sands 47 per cent; Conventional Oil 44 per cent; and 58 per cent for
natural gas. The recommended increases are 64 per cent, 49 per cent and
63 per cent respectively - an overall increase of 27 per cent.

What right do I have to over 50 per cent? I take no risk researching the
area for productive wells, own no heavy equipment to prepare the area
and extract the fuels, or spend millions of dollars on investing,
education, or safety. I don't work 12 plus hour long days in mud, snow
or heat for weeks. I don't live in a camp or in a hotel for months,
wishing for that home cooked meal -missing my family.

What is the Alberta Advantage? The government website www.alberta.ca
states how "Albertans have the lowest personal taxes in Canada. They
enjoy a high quality of life with the highest level of service. They
have the highest disposable incomes in Canada and the lowest
unemployment rate. We also have a strong and vibrant economy, a strong
commitment to innovation and knowledge-based progress. A modern and
efficient infrastructure and an abundance of natural resources." The oil
and gas industry drives many of these. Albertans enjoy "not having a
provincial sales tax." Ask yourself why.

Oil companies pay millions in tax revenue. These taxes support our
education, health and infrastructure. Many companies also make
significant donations for community and youth programs such as Alberta
4-H. Alberta is the only province to be debt free thanks to the
provincial revenue generated. Who are the largest contributors?
Thousands of farmers receive annual income from a well on their land.
Appreciated revenue when the price of livestock or crops has fallen,
again. Working in the oil and gas industry offers flexibility as well as
financial comfort for many grateful to offset the farm expenses. When
the oil and gas revenue drops, and it will, Alberta government won't
have tax dollars for agricultural programs. If the economy drops to
reverberate into another recession similar to the 1980s, it will be
other government officials rebuilding Alberta.

L. Hand
Lacomb

QFT!

There are far too many ignorant short-sighted people in Alberta if they think that increasing the royalty will be a good thing.

This should be forwarded to EVERYONE we know.

[kertejud]

Originally posted by 89coupe
When
the oil and gas revenue drops, and it will, Alberta government won't
have tax dollars for agricultural programs. If the economy drops to
reverberate into another recession similar to the 1980s, it will be
other government officials rebuilding Alberta.

L. Hand
Lacomb

It almost makes you wonder why the Heritage Fund was created and why we collect royalties in the first place.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by kertejud


It almost makes you wonder why the Heritage Fund was created and why we collect royalties in the first place.

The Heritage Fund exists to protect Alberta from things outside of the control of the government and Albertans in general.

It isn't there to bail out the provincial government after they make poor decisions.

Thats like saving $5000 and then neglecting to change the oil in your car because you have the money for a new engine and you will save the $25/oil change.

[kertejud]

Originally posted by sputnik

The Heritage Fund exists to protect Alberta from things outside of the control of the government and Albertans in general.

No, the Heritage Fund exists to ensure the long term sustainability of the province's economics. More importantly for when the oil dries up or the economy goes down.

It isn't there to bail out the provincial government after they make poor decisions.

The province made a poor decision by not doing anything with royalty rates and letting the Heritage Fund reach its paltry level.

Thats like saving $5000 and then neglecting to change the oil in your car because you have the money for a new engine and you will save the $25/oil change.

This would work so long as you accept that the engine will go regardless of the oil change or not, and you're left with $5K to fix it while your Norweigian buddy has $30K to fix his.

Its not a good analogy to begin with, but the car will break down no matter what, best to get everything you can from it.

[Toma]

You simply cannot argue with some people... this is from another board....

I said to Brad (89Coupe above post), diehard O&G lobbyist...
Toma said>>>>

Ahhh, so there we have it... the crux of where our opinion differences stem from.

I agree with our constitution, and that we the people of this province EXCLUSIVELY OWN its natural resources.

You, well, you disagree. You somehow feel that it belongs to the ground, and whoever digs it up, gets it all......

It cant be any simpler then that.

to which Brad (89Coupe) >>>

author=BradT link=topic=46280.msg391141#msg391141 date=1192642395]

That is correct. I feel who ever takes the time, money, and effort to exploit the "natural" resources "possibly" available, deserves every penny.

Thats like me asking to park my car on your land. I mean according to you "WE" all share it.

You cannot argue with people who's inherent belief is that land and resources are a free for all..... Must be friends with George Bush

[89coupe]

Originally posted by Toma
You simply cannot argue with some people... this is from another board....

I said to Brad (89Coupe above post), diehard O&G lobbyist...
Toma said>>>>


to which Brad (89Coupe) >>>



You cannot argue with people who's inherent belief is that land and resources are a free for all..... Must be friends with George Bush

Its not FREE Toma.

They have to pay to exploit it. Why don't you get that?

I will ask the same questions on here.

Do you expect a cut of the wages from the farmers crops? They grew their crops on the "peoples" land.

Do you expect a cut of the forestry industry. The trees grow on the peoples land.

What about fisherman's wages? The fish are free are they not?

[Toma]

Does oil grow like crops?
We get a cut from forestry.
Fish reproduce..... does oil?

[b_t]

Originally posted by Toma
Does oil grow like crops?
We get a cut from forestry.
Fish reproduce..... does oil?

We get a cut from oil as well, already, a very substantial one. That should be good enough. Changing the rules of the game halfway through is a bad idea for myriad reasons, and just claiming that it is "our" oil so therefore we deserve a bigger share is not a legitimate reason to harm the oil and gas companies that drive this province's economy, harm our image as a safe place for foreign investors to put their money into and so on so forth.
Companies are not making empty threats about the effect the royalty report will have on their business. Some have already cut as much as $800 million from next year's budget (and they have not announced it, at all, showing that is a legitimate business decision and not just PR), even though the government hasn't passed judgment on the report yet. The corresponding increase in revenue for the government will be followed by a corresponding (and larger) decrease in actual production by the oil companies - who will take all of their planned developments and move next door to Saskatchewan.
So in the end, the government would see very little real increase in revenue, as well as a mass exodus of workers going to where they can still make their fast Alberta buck - central Canada, and then the corresponding drop in revenue to local businesses and so on so forth.
They could not implement the changes recommended by the report and still expect for things to continue on as normal in this province.

[Toma]

Originally posted by b_t


We get a cut from oil as well, already, a very substantial one. That should be good enough. Changing the rules of the game halfway through is a bad idea

Its a dynamic game, hence it requires dynamic rules.... it would be RIDICULOUSLY STUPID to expect otherwise...

[b_t]

Originally posted by Toma

Its a dynamic game, hence it requires dynamic rules.... it would be RIDICULOUSLY STUPID to expect otherwise...

When billions of dollars have already been spent and budgeted, you cannot change a critical factor halfway through the game. You cannot treat this as a dynamic game. We are talking about the economy here.
Think of (just for instance) how the US deals with inflation and recession through the Federal Reserve - it is not overly dynamic. It took two weeks of careful deliberation to stop a sudden massive economic tailspin, and the end result of that deliberation was to change interest rates by just 0.5% - a 9.5% movement to solve an entire economy's problem, while the Alberta government has suddenly dropped the threat of a 27% increase specifically targeting just one industry, to solve a problem where no complaint existed.
What is more ridiculous is that they will not add a grandfather clause to apply to the existing, partly completed projects, so all the sudden these projects - which were running narrower margins than you might believe, even with the high price of oil - may suddenly become money losing ventures.
And you are ignoring that a major part of any economy is foreign investment. Klein and his government worked tirelessly to make Alberta an appealing place for foreign investment - which is the key to a successful economy with globalization at the stage it is now - and now just this report is enough to have Alberta labelled as an unstable environment for foreign investment. If we have a reputation for making sudden, unprovoked moves like this, all the sudden the income will dry up and before we know it, the money to make the jobs has disappeared, the jobs disappear, and the money from the jobs disappears, and then there is a corresponding decrease in consumer spending and the giant ripple effect it would have through our whole economy from start to finish would be immense, reaching right down to the kids in high school who can make $16.25 an hour working at Safeway when I could barely make $8.50 managing a KFC before the boom.
I don't care what your opinion on big business is - it is a part of life that you will never be able to sucessfully get rid of, and still maintain a decent standard of living at the same time. Bitch all you want - some parasites are beneficial to whatever they are leeching off of.

[autosm]

energy workers rally against higher royalties



print this story


E-mail this story




The Canadian Press


Wed. October. 17 2007 6:21 PM ET

EDMONTON — Competing sides nearly came to blows Wednesday outside the Alberta legislature as 700 energy workers rallied against the prospect of higher royalties while smaller groups denounced the energy industry as greedy and manipulative.


Many of the energy workers were handed colourful hardhats, pink for the women, and prefabricated signs paid for by a Calgary-based energy firm.


Rallies outside the legislature are often boisterous, sometimes even violent. But this crowd was almost wooden, showing little emotion and standing quietly for nearly an hour as various politicians and organizers read their speeches.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Mark Ogilvie, a rig worker with Nabors Drilling, admitted he hadn't read the report of a government-commissioned panel that said Alberta should be taking in $2 billion more in royalties annually. But he attended the rally after hearing from co-workers that higher royalties would hurt his job prospects.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"The general consensus is that this isn't good for us,'' Ogilvie said. "I've listened to the people around me and my peers to get me where I am now and believe them.


"I don't want to lose my job. I have a house. I have a family, and I need them both.''


As the rally ended, several groups on the sidelines began aiming loud insults at energy companies that are fighting against higher royalties. It caused a few ugly shouting matches, and police on mountain bikes moved closer but made no arrests.


"It's very unfortunate, but I think that all of these workers here are being manipulated and lied to by the oil companies,'' said Alex Smith, who carried a banner that read "Stelmach: Call their bluff!''


"I don't think any of their jobs are in danger and I don't think investment in Alberta is in danger. I think basically it's a scare tactic being used by the oil companies.''


Some of the energy industry workers likened the prospect of a $2-billion boost in royalties to the much-hated national energy program that rocked Alberta's economy in the 1970s.


"Last time this happened, it hurt everybody,'' said Rick Vanee of Calgary-based Ensign Energy Services. "Now (if) they put the brakes back on again, there's hardly any rigs running.''


Vanee said he'd like to see Alberta Premier Ed Stelmach call an election on the royalty issue.


Stelmach campaigned for the Tory leadership last fall on a platform that included a promise of a royalty review. The panel he selected is now recommending royalty changes that would reduce payments for low production wells, but increase those for big operations, especially the booming oilsands projects in northern Alberta.


Energy firms and investment groups have attacked the report, saying the recommended increases would kill billions worth of investment and thousands of jobs in Alberta.


"We take issue with the panel's proposals that would hit the largest revenue generating wells so hard that it makes future exploration initiatives uneconomic,'' says an analysis released this week by Tristone Capital Inc., an investment bank that serves the oil and gas industry.


"We believe that the government should try to make Alberta more competitive, not less, when it comes to royalties on high-productivity wells.''


Alberta's auditor general recently reported that the province has hidden internal reports since 2004 that say annual royalties could be increased by at least $1 billion without hurting the energy sector's competitiveness.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Alberta Federation of Labour planned a rally in support of higher royalties for Thursday in Fort McMurray, the heart of the oilsands. Federation president Gil McGowan said it's for those who believe Albertans deserve a larger share of their energy resources.


"We were frankly offended that a bunch of oil employers are claiming to speak on behalf of rank-and-file oilpatch workers,'' said McGowan. "They don't speak for us, so that's why we organized the rally.''

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Members of the review panel have also been reacting to the energy industry's attacks on their work. Panel chairman Bill Hunter said last week that he was disappointed the energy sector had not taken "the high road.''


Pedro Van Meurs, an international royalty expert who was hired by the Alberta government to advise the review panel, also wrote a biting commentary that appeared in newspapers Wednesday.


"The question is will Premier Ed Stelmach have the vision to create a sustainable future for Alberta oilsands and accept a substantive bitumen tax?'' wrote Van Meurs.


"Or will he cave in to the unjustified threats of the oil industry and accept a proposal similar to the one developed by the petroleum industry through Tristone Capital?''

[Dycker]

Please bare with me as I am trying to make it the least complicated. Here goes nothing...

Let's say you have a bunch of money and want to put it in a bank to make interest on your money. You shop around to different banks and find one that is giving an incredible interest rate which is much higher than any other bank.

So you put your money in that bank and every thing is fine. Suddenly, the bank mails you a letter saying their dropping the interest to a rate that is lower than most of the other banks around.

Do you:

A) Just say the times were good while they lasted and keep your money in the same bank making the lower interest.

B) Find another bank with a higher interest.

Companies aren't threatening to pull entirely out of Alberta; they are stating that they will pull out money in investments that are guaranteed to lose money on if the royalty change goes through as planned. Take EnCana for example. They are "THREATENING" to pull $1.9B in investments. That is referring to just a single project in the oilsands.

The gov't does need to change the rates, just not in the overly retarded way the panel has advised.

[Dycker]

Guess we'll all hear about it on Wednesday. One way or the other I'm still getting drunk at the Flames game.

[cosmok]

Announcement delayed until the end of the month. Activity has been slowing since the the first thaw this year, this is just a excuse for the Operators cutbacks that were happening since the early part of 2006. Career damning move by Eddie either way he goes.