Haltech and other standalone questions (Maxt?)

[rage2]

I'm shopping for a standalone setup for someone. Looking at the Haltech EK6, and it states that there's only 32 points for fuel for each MAP point.

Maxt, you've used this, can you explain how this works? 32 seems to be a little low on the resolution side to provide a smooth A/F.

Currently looking at SDS, Haltech EK6, and DTAfast E48. DTAfast looks to be a winner, but it's more designed for a 4 cylinder application, so 6 cylinder operation may suffer. Price wise, SDS is the most expensive, but it doesn't need a laptop (the guy's going to need to buy a laptop with the other 2 systems).

The engine in quesiton is a 3.2L 6 cylinder Supercharged with VTEC.

[redline]

Look at Autotronic, There is a couple really knowledgable people on honda-tech that love this standalone.

[rage2]

You got a website for them? I can't seem to find it anywhere (google's slackin' today).

Edit : It's Autronic... taking a peek now.

[ecstasy_civic]

what about chrisng's wolf 3d?? would that be any help at all? or not up to what your looking for?

[rage2]

Know about Wolf3D, staying away from Wolf3D. Just took a peek at Autronic, damn cool, but pricey .

[ecstasy_civic]

ok, just an idea. good for rx7's

[redline]

Check these guys are for pricing

http://www.dynospeed.com/

Ben is the guy you want to talk to.

On a site note, rage2, This Ben guy has done some tuning seminars around the US. Not specific to any system, imports etc..., but goes though the basic of how to tune a car. Do you think that we could round up 10 -20 people @ $500 / person and try to get this guy up here.

[rage2]

$500/person? Doubt it. I'll hold a seminar for $500 a person and pass on my tuning skills .

It's really not that tough IMO. 90% of tuning secrets are available on public forums (you just have to weed through the facts from the fiction).

[962 kid]

http://www.webcon.co.uk/alpha/index.htm


uses Bosch inputs

[Tuner1]

Originally posted by rage2


The engine in quesiton is a 3.2L 6 cylinder Supercharged with VTEC.

VTEC and VANOS are very different systems. VTEC is bascially an on/off switch, VANOS is not. This may complicate matters with a standalone? I say burn the car and buy an SL55

[4wheeldrift]

Originally posted by E36S50B32
I say burn the car and buy an SL55

Yeah, but thats your solution to everything

[rage2]

Originally posted by E36S50B32
VTEC and VANOS are very different systems. VTEC is bascially an on/off switch, VANOS is not. This may complicate matters with a standalone? I say burn the car and buy an SL55

AFAIK, the VANOS system in question is on/off, not fully variable, but I was told it MAY be off at low revs, on at mid revs, off at high revs. I know the newer VANOS systems are not on off. So a standalone with multiple triggers is needed.

[rage2]

Originally posted by m10-power
Early VANOS are run off a relay (on/off) but the position allows oil pressure to move the camshaft retard or advanced depending on relay position, the oil pressure increases as rpms rise so the controls actual advance. This is a simplified description. Forced induction doesnt like overlap so one would want to re-locate the advance stop to restrict the camshaft movement. Not that this has anything to do with your vtec...

Yep... pretty close. Here's a URL with a description :

http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/vanos.htm

I don't think it changes based on oil pressure though, just 2 stage. It's off at idle, on right off idle, and at 5000rpm it's off again. Should be fairly simple to map that with a dual trigger setup (as long as there's 2 rpm triggered outputs available). Simple XOR gate will handle it .

Double VANOS on the other hand, is a much more complex monster.

[Alpine Autowerks]

Originally posted by m10-power
Early VANOS are run off a relay (on/off) but the position allows oil pressure to move the camshaft retard or advanced depending on relay position, the oil pressure increases as rpms rise so the controls actual advance. This is a simplified description. Forced induction doesnt like overlap so one would want to re-locate the advance stop to restrict the camshaft movement. Not that this has anything to do with your vtec...

Vanos is either on or off, the oil pressure has no effect on position. The overlap in either position occurs below 1mm of valve lift so there is very little flow.

Engines with infinitely adjustable valve timing use a oil pressure modulation valve to vary the oil pressure acting on the advance/retard position.

[Maxt]

I completly missed thjs thread, don't go to this area much..
The haltech system, is a pretty good system.. The 32 points per map is better than most systems, and its quite smooth in 500 rpm load points..I have a wideband and I can keep the car within .1 of a given air fuel setting through out the rev range on boost..
Yes it has v-tech control..
I prefer the laptop, you don't have to be a nintendo pirate to navigate your way through menu's, I was never very good at video games, thus I absolutely hate the hand controller type system... plus looking at the adjustments on a hand controller limits what you can see at one time, some of the hand controller systems now are laptop capable, but then you may as well get the better system and save the cash and get the laptop system in the first place.. lap tops can be had for 50.00.. and when it comes to EMS software the older the laptop the better..
The haltech displays all the engine data on the bottom of the page while you are in any of the map and data screens, a nice touch and yes it has V-tec control (e6K)..
THe E-11 looks to be totally over the top.
The beauty part of the haltech is that works with most factory ignitions, alot of other systems, seperate or certain pickups/ignitors/coils must be used, its also hi and lo injector impedence friendly..
Yes the SDS seems to need a price correction, its way to much money when you compare it other systems..Maxt

[Dr. Lightspeed]

It is not a true standalone but I love the new E-manage the dealer software allows me to run additional injector maps complete injector control as well as timing without having to adjust or even mess with the airflow tables (unless you want to) I prefer not to as this can mess up lots of other areas dealing with load. Optional speed density control system as well as complete timing control accuracy to .1 of a degree. Voltage clamping is also avail to get by those nasty fuel cuts. Not true standalone but the price is right and the control is awesome for a piggy back system. Probally get into a complete system with the optional sensors for under a grand. Oh yea 16*16 maps. What I like about the piggy backs is the rest of the ecu controls ie) antilocks brakes and the like all stay in stock format. I am probally going to get flamed for this but oh well I think for the dollar it is a great system. Haltec nice just pricey thas all.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Maxt
I completly missed thjs thread, don't go to this area much..
The haltech system, is a pretty good system.. The 32 points per map is better than most systems, and its quite smooth in 500 rpm load points..I have a wideband and I can keep the car within .1 of a given air fuel setting through out the rev range on boost..
Yes it has v-tech control..
I prefer the laptop, you don't have to be a nintendo pirate to navigate your way through menu's, I was never very good at video games, thus I absolutely hate the hand controller type system... plus looking at the adjustments on a hand controller limits what you can see at one time, some of the hand controller systems now are laptop capable, but then you may as well get the better system and save the cash and get the laptop system in the first place.. lap tops can be had for 50.00.. and when it comes to EMS software the older the laptop the better..
The haltech displays all the engine data on the bottom of the page while you are in any of the map and data screens, a nice touch and yes it has V-tec control (e6K)..
THe E-11 looks to be totally over the top.
The beauty part of the haltech is that works with most factory ignitions, alot of other systems, seperate or certain pickups/ignitors/coils must be used, its also hi and lo injector impedence friendly..
Yes the SDS seems to need a price correction, its way to much money when you compare it other systems..Maxt

Rage the program is dos based, I like the nintendo argument, and yes SDS is overpriced and "older technology" IMO.

Originally posted by Dr. Lightspeed
It is not a true standalone but I love the new E-manage the dealer software allows me to run additional injector maps complete injector control as well as timing without having to adjust or even mess with the airflow tables (unless you want to) I prefer not to as this can mess up lots of other areas dealing with load. Optional speed density control system as well as complete timing control accuracy to .1 of a degree. Voltage clamping is also avail to get by those nasty fuel cuts. Not true standalone but the price is right and the control is awesome for a piggy back system. Probally get into a complete system with the optional sensors for under a grand. Oh yea 16*16 maps. What I like about the piggy backs is the rest of the ecu controls ie) antilocks brakes and the like all stay in stock format. I am probally going to get flamed for this but oh well I think for the dollar it is a great system. Haltec nice just pricey thas all.

I agree emange is a nice little setup. It has v-tec map options too. That's what I would go with, do honda's have a knock sensor, im guessing no.

[redline]

Originally posted by Hollywood


I, do honda's have a knock sensor, im guessing no.

b series engines have knock sensors

[Dr. Lightspeed]

Hey Rage if you wanna check it out and see the full tunabilty of it PM me I will set something up. I have several cars coming up some weird aps. Just let me know and come for a drive. Yes the emanage has vtec setup also.

[rx7_turbo2]

Originally posted by Hollywood
I agree emange is a nice little setup. It has v-tec map options too. That's what I would go with, do honda's have a knock sensor, im guessing no.

I like the eManage as well, I almost went with it in fact. I like the fact Greddy is making other products like the Profec E01 boost controller to operate with the eManage. I didnt like the fact it was so "piggy back" based. It depends on what car it's to be used on but on older cars with older ECU's, older style mass air flow sensors, old wiring etc, I thought it would be better to go with a true stand alone. I'm not sure if it fits your application Rage but check out www.microtechefi.com it's what I went with, it's not as affordable as it once was because the Australian dollar gained some value but it's still a good unit.