Why God is Imaginary

[01RedDX]

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[Antonito]

Originally posted by liquid1010


Sure, I'll post them tonight. Care to post yours?

I have never said I have soures for anything. You have. That is why I keep asking.

[liquid1010]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


What's the holdup?

This little thing called a job....

[liquid1010]

Originally posted by Antonito


I have never said I have soures for anything. You have. That is why I keep asking.

Josephus and Modern Scholarship, 1937-1980
by Louis H. Feldman

Josephus in Galilee and Rome: His Vita and Development As a Historian - Shaye Cohen

Those are primary sources for a biography and description of Jospheus works. He mentioned Christ merely from a Historical perspective and advised about the people surrounding Him. Josephus Book makes two statements concerning Jesus, one of which I quoted below. Also, you can say it's been "altered" all you want, but most historians won't agree with you no matter what you say. As already mentioned, Josephus's book was perhaps the second most widely read book of it's time. It would be rather difficult to go around and change all of them don't you think?

"Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day."

P.S. - You might want to find sources for your statements.

[01RedDX]

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[Supa Dexta]

Originally posted by jay42w8


don't you think that that is just a little naive to believe that nothing is beyond your control? I suppose people who get run over walking down the street were just asking for it....

Not at all.. If I get run over crossing the street either I didn't look both ways, or possibly a car jumped the curb into me, how can I control that?... Same as if I get shot in the back of the head waiting in line for a cheeseburger... I can't control that, but I certainly know it's not "god's plan" to have someone shoot me in the back of the head waiting for a burger..

It is simple though, times up, thats the way you went out and it's game over...

How about this, I can either live by the book my whole life. go to church and do everything just so..

OR

I fuck around my whole life, steal rob and cheat, then while I'm living out my last days I say hey.. I found god! I'm sorry for what I've done but hey, I'm going to heaven!

umm no.. How about I stand on my own two feet, don't steal cheat and lie, and live my life how I think it will best benefit my family and community and even myself.. works for me..

The problem is, you will always have people with low moral's, they will cause problems for good people, and I believe weaker people will "look to the heavens" for answers... will it get them anywheres? no, of course not, but for some reason it still goes on, and religion milks millions out of these people...

[liquid1010]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


Are you fucking kidding me? Honestly, are you that delusional??

http://www.truthbeknown.com/christ.htm

http://www.infidels.org/library/hist...ally_live.html

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/crosstalk2/message/4869

http://www.truthbeknown.com/footnote.htm#foot17

http://www.amazon.com/Laughing-Jesus...614726-3908103

http://www.amazon.com/Can-Trust-New-...614726-3908103

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Myth-G-W...614726-3908103

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...uthbeknownfoun

No, I'm not kidding you. There was actually a panel on this subject with the relevant historical profs. I can't remember off the top of my head the exact numbers, but I believe 20 said they believe his works were not altered, 13 believed they were, and I believe 6 were unsure. So.... So guess what

BTW... Please tell me you see the problem with the "sources" (if you can call them that) above. There's a reason academia will not accept interent sources!! Any idiot with a computer can pretend his bogus opinion is fact. There's a reason I didn't quote websites Do you have any "real" sources? You know.... books. Those things that are verified through academia as actually having some truth to them.... not some pilon behind his computer.

[TKRIS]

Originally posted by liquid1010


LOL... couldn't help but laugh with your last comment... classic!

One of the things that I find really odd about this entire debate, is that people constantly ask anybody who believes in God to "prove" His existance using science.

This is a bit of a strawman. It aims to discredit atheists based on an assumed agenda that we do not, in actuality, share.
As I've mentioned time and time again, I'm not asking anyone to prove anything. I'm asking simply this:
If you're going to claim scientific backing, it's up to you to back up that claim. When you can't, don't be surprised if people call you out on your poor and incomplete understanding of science.

Originally posted by liquid1010
That is an entirely impossible and faulty premise. In essense, as Eleanor mentioned, most scientific premises come down to the idea of probability. So what is the probability that God exists? That's a totally new question.

Not new. I've addressed the probability of god's existence, from a scientific standpoint, too many times to count.
In short: There is no scientific reason to believe that god exists, and the probability of his existence based on the evidence for and against is as close to zero as we could possibly imagine.

Originally posted by liquid1010
Most atheists seem to be of the idea that as soon as we add the concept of God into the mix, we are negating the entire foundation of truth that Science has proven over the past centuries... which is entirely wrong. The Science doesn't change, because it doesn't need to. Does putting God into the equation change gravity, thermodynamics, physics, or biology? Absolutely not. All that adding the idea of God does is add a meaning behind all this.

One should be very careful indeed in generalizing the opinions of atheists...
In any case, I've previously stated that while I once held the same position you do, I eventually came to the conclusion that the "god at the the controls" position was an overly apologetic and unreasonable one.
As Douglas Adams is quoted as saying: "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"

What I'm saying is this: while much of the science remains in place as concessions are made in one's view of god and religion, in this outlook will always exist a transition between the rational and the spiritual. If you believe in science, and you believe in religion, somewhere along the line your belief in science and logic turns into a belief in the mystical and the irrational.
If that works for you, great. Frankly, I'm a little bit glad there are still religious people in our country as it will surely make it easier for my daughter to get a job when she grows up. j/k

Originally posted by liquid1010
- Some posters keep bring up Bertrand Russell in this thread, so I thought I would quote him for you. He stated that any Philosophy of life worth taking seriously has to have a "firm foundation of unyielding despair".

Taking into account the above quote, I would prefer to live my life in a manner that doesn't require "unyielding despair", but requires satisfaction, joy, and excitement. Does this mean that Atheists are miserable? Not neccesarily, but Bertrand Russell sure seems to think it "should".

I'm really not sure what to think here...
On one hand, you've always seemed to be an intelligent individual. As such, I have a hard time believing that you wouldn't know that this intepretation is completely out of context, contrary to the actual point being made, and a complete betrayal to Russell's work.
However, if that's the case, then you'd be intentionally misrepresenting Russell in an attempt to subvert and manipulate his works to serve your agenda. This would be incredibly dishonest, and since you've always appeared to be a person of integrity, I have a difficult time imagining this scenario as well.

In any case, be it either through ignorance or willful deceit, allow me to clarify Russell's stance on this by posting a more complete quote from his essay "A Free Man's Worship".

Originally written by Bertrand Russell
Such, in outline, but even more purposeless, more void of meaning, is the world which Science presents for our belief. Amid such a world, if anywhere, our ideals henceforward must find a home. That Man is the product of causes which had no prevision of the end they were achieving; that his origin, his growth, his hopes and fears, his loves and his beliefs, are but the outcome of accidental collocations of atoms; that no fire, no heroism, no intensity of thought and feeling, can preserve an individual life beyond the grave; that all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and that the whole temple of Man's achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins--all these things, if not quite beyond dispute, are yet so nearly certain, that no philosophy which rejects them can hope to stand. Only within the scaffolding of these truths, only on the firm foundation of unyielding despair, can the soul's habitation henceforth be safely built.

How, in such an alien and inhuman world, can so powerless a creature as Man preserve his aspirations untarnished? A strange mystery it is that Nature, omnipotent but blind, in the revolutions of her secular hurryings through the abysses of space, has brought forth at last a child, subject still to her power, but gifted with sight, with knowledge of good and evil, with the capacity of judging all the works of his unthinking Mother. In spite of Death, the mark and seal of the parental control, Man is yet free, during his brief years, to examine, to criticise, to know, and in imagination to create. To him alone, in the world with which he is acquainted, this freedom belongs; and in this lies his superiority to the resistless forces that control his outward life.

Wow. Now that the quote's context is also supplied (instead of the five words you provided), it appears Russell is actually saying the exact opposite of what you implied doesn't it?

[403Gemini]

Originally posted by Toms-SC
I found the best thing to do is to not care.

As an atheist I will stick to snide remarks and lol's to religious people, they aren't worth anything further then that. Once one has become so entrenched, so brainwashed by said 'religion' it is impossible to convert them. If God himself floated down from the heavens and told his followers he was fake, they would not believe it. It's just the name of the game.

The Easter Bunny, Santa Clause, Tooth Fairy and Jesus all have numerous books written about them dating back ages. I am just not delusional enough to take any of those literatures as fact.

They're not real?! you fucker! you ruined my easter, christmas and getting punched in the face and having my teeth knocked out

whats there to look forward too? theres nothing left to live for! OH MY GOD!!!

[Toms-SC]

Originally posted by 403Gemini


whats there to look forward too? theres nothing left to live for! OH MY EASTER BUNNY!!!!

[01RedDX]

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[RiCE-DaDDy]

heres an interesting article to stir up some more debate

http://tinyurl.com/3y7gqk

[Crymson]

This doesn't help explain why God is imaginary, bit it explains why we shouldn't blindly tolerate religion because its "polite"

http://www.eveningsun.com/ci_7277523?source=most_viewed

[BBB.Bialowas]

how come priests rape little kids?
god plan that?